Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
For their years of service to their Patron, a powerful Paladin may invoke the watchful eye of their deity who may be convinced to intercede in times of crisis.
Duration: 15 minutes
While Succor is active, the Paladin's deity may intervene when the Paladin or one of their group members is about to suffer a fatal blow from an enemy. If the Paladin or member of their party would otherwise suffer a fatal attack (either from blood loss, crit kill, or direct spell/ability), the deity can intervene- blocking the oncoming attack and immediately pulling the Paladin and members of their party into a Major Sanctuary for protection. The Paladin's deity will intervene up to two times a day (On a 24 hour clock)
The base chance of success for an intervention is 75% for the Paladin and 50% for their companions. Certain factors will affect this chance of success:
Group members converted to a sworn enemy of the Paladin's deity will never trigger an intervention and will not be brought into the sanctuary if an intervention occurs (Luukos ain't saving no Lorminstra converts) [note: I can see an opportunity for some awesome messaging here]
Group members with opposite alignment of the Paladin's deity (Liabo vs Lornon) have only a 25% base chance of triggering an intervention and may not exceed 50% total.
Group members converted to the Paladin's deity will have a 75% chance of an intervention
Lore training will also affect the outcome of the spell:
Training in Spiritual Lore Religion will increase the number of daily interventions by 1 (max of 3) at 50 ranks and 2 (Max of 4) at 150 ranks
Training in Spiritual Lore Blessings will give a 1% chance per rank of the sanctuary spawning with a bowl of medicinal herbs. (At least one herb of every wound type) These herbs must stay in the sanctuary, however, and will vanish if the Paladin or group member attempts to take them out
Training in Spiritual Lore Summoning will increase the chance of an intervention by a rate of 1% per rank.
It's an interesting idea, but I kind of look at that as our previous raise - a high level slotted spell so we can still raise.. but this is just major sanctuary that's limited instead since a cleric or empath can (and should) cast major sanctuary when it's time to flee and there's nowhere to fog or (such as invasions or hunting) can just major sanct to temporary recover before going right back out.. that plus major sanct does everybody.
Good thought thought - can you possibly improve it or modify?
Beware of the Mighty Falvikob!
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Good thought thought - can you possibly improve it or modify?
Beware of the Mighty Falvikob!
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
I wouldn't get too stuck on the Major Sanctuary part- that's flavoring more than anything (since there's already a whole set of deity-specific major sanctuaries). Ultimately, this spell literally saves your life or the lives of your group members a few times a day. That's the real value. If anything- I'd say that this is potentially a bit too powerful as-is and might need to base number of interventions brought down to 1 and base success rates set to 50/25.
My only concern with the design is that it's so similar to both Cleric and Empath 50th level, but given this is 20-something year-old game, it's hard to create effects that are both worthy of a spell circle's highest level spell and won't throw off the balance. Anything super powerful has to have a limit somewhere.
This is an okay idea for me. Not great, but not bad.
I'd like to see something flashier or more active perhaps in the slot. But this is still a nice concept for the type of spell it proposes.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
I'd like to see something flashier or more active perhaps in the slot. But this is still a nice concept for the type of spell it proposes.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Right now in that form, I doubt I would take the extra spell slots since that's not really appealing to me because I know an empath and a cleric can major sanct when things are bad. Likely in that situation with the fatal blow.. we shouldn't be there in the first place if we can't flee to a safe spot nor have our herbs with us. If I have low blood, no creatures are about, and a few bleeders.. then I should be able to escape if I keep my defense up and stay alive to find an empath or eat herbs. If I'm with a friend that can major sanct, then they major sanct and heal or we eat herbs in the sanct. That's why I don't see me using it since it appears to be just a "cheat death" once kind of spell when we can already "cheat death" with society symbols.
That's not to say others would want it though. I'm just giving constructive criticism is all. Curious what can be done to it make it more worthwhile to go for if 1650 were to be come that.
I'd almost be more the ignore blood losing and restoring maybe the arms, head, and eyes of the paladin with a minor temp boost to defense and attack for maybe ten minutes before paying a price like our current version of raising but for ourselves while we are alive. That way we can finish off what we are attacking and flee back to safety.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
> because I know an empath and a cleric can major sanct when things are bad.
>That's why I don't see me using it since it appears to be just a "cheat death" once kind of spell when we can already "cheat death" with society symbols
It's not even just society symbols. A high level paladin spell is already such a thing, it just only applies to the paladin and not the group. Anyway, this more or less reflects my feeling on it being okay but not great.
And of course, I too am only trying to be constructive, even though I didn't say much. I think the idea is nicely developed and proposed, and it's by no means a mediocre idea. It's a very nice idea. But, it's not quite got the AMAZING of a level 50 spell.
Then again, I play a paladin and a sorcerer. I've never once even cast a level 50 spell. So I kind of envision a pile of awesome pouring from the sky, and perhaps falsely.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
>That's why I don't see me using it since it appears to be just a "cheat death" once kind of spell when we can already "cheat death" with society symbols
It's not even just society symbols. A high level paladin spell is already such a thing, it just only applies to the paladin and not the group. Anyway, this more or less reflects my feeling on it being okay but not great.
And of course, I too am only trying to be constructive, even though I didn't say much. I think the idea is nicely developed and proposed, and it's by no means a mediocre idea. It's a very nice idea. But, it's not quite got the AMAZING of a level 50 spell.
Then again, I play a paladin and a sorcerer. I've never once even cast a level 50 spell. So I kind of envision a pile of awesome pouring from the sky, and perhaps falsely.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Keep in mind that the spell triggers before a death hit. Once you're dead, no amount of sanctuary spells or society powers are going to remedy that fact. Personally, I don't see most of my deaths coming.
Also, we can't design spells around the assumption that everyone wanders around with a pocket empath and cleric. Truthfully, most folks hunt alone. (The primary benefit here is to the Paladin- the group component is just there because it's already something built into the concept of a Paladin. This could be a powerful effect when coupled with 1608, for example)
Sure!
So to be more constructive, what's the point of the 15 minute duration if we can't see the death coming?
And what about wacky applications like picking locks with something like this? Screw disarming safely, you can just toss up this bad boy and roll! Not that I know even a single paladin that picks locks, and I'm all about diversification, but, it seems like not what you wanted.
I agree you're right that beseech doesn't deal with the actual death blow. But it does remind me of Temporal Reversion a bit. Maybe too much. And hey clerics don't need to care if they die since they can save themselves.
As to pocket characters, I more found it agreeable on the possible tred on 220 itself, firstly because we'd like something unique and secondly because unique effects are usually...unique. (This is still unique in many ways of course. It can still be a concern for game balance etc.)
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
So to be more constructive, what's the point of the 15 minute duration if we can't see the death coming?
And what about wacky applications like picking locks with something like this? Screw disarming safely, you can just toss up this bad boy and roll! Not that I know even a single paladin that picks locks, and I'm all about diversification, but, it seems like not what you wanted.
I agree you're right that beseech doesn't deal with the actual death blow. But it does remind me of Temporal Reversion a bit. Maybe too much. And hey clerics don't need to care if they die since they can save themselves.
As to pocket characters, I more found it agreeable on the possible tred on 220 itself, firstly because we'd like something unique and secondly because unique effects are usually...unique. (This is still unique in many ways of course. It can still be a concern for game balance etc.)
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Here's a thought.. assuming it's possible mechanically to be able to "predict" the death blow.
What if instead of a Major Sanct (which you proposed) the spell stops bleeding and transports you to your deity's shrine (if applicable) or (if no convert in place nor any shrine/temple in the town) that the spell teleports you the temple of the town as I believe it's safe to say each town does have a temple. Correct me if I'm wrong here. If no temple/shrine of said deity that's fit for the paladin's deity then perhaps instead a teleport to the town center of the town. That could make it more interesting. The only other thing I'd propose though (since we can argue the 130 spirit return) is it would work in places such as The Rift, or other dungeons where normal spells are too weak IF this spell is x amount of times per day. But in this form I would disagree with X amount of times per day since it's still close to 130.
So.. a little more tweaking... how about something like the following?
Paladin has 1650 active
Beastie attacks.. 100+ roll but a fatal hit!
Paladin ignore the health loss and ignores the damage alltogether
Paladin gets blessed by his/her Deity.. and becomes untouchable and ignore bleeding for 5 minutes - long enough to finish off the remaining foe/s or at at least the main one
Paladin teleports back to shrine/town with bandages so he/she can find an empath or get herbs etc
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
What if instead of a Major Sanct (which you proposed) the spell stops bleeding and transports you to your deity's shrine (if applicable) or (if no convert in place nor any shrine/temple in the town) that the spell teleports you the temple of the town as I believe it's safe to say each town does have a temple. Correct me if I'm wrong here. If no temple/shrine of said deity that's fit for the paladin's deity then perhaps instead a teleport to the town center of the town. That could make it more interesting. The only other thing I'd propose though (since we can argue the 130 spirit return) is it would work in places such as The Rift, or other dungeons where normal spells are too weak IF this spell is x amount of times per day. But in this form I would disagree with X amount of times per day since it's still close to 130.
So.. a little more tweaking... how about something like the following?
Paladin has 1650 active
Beastie attacks.. 100+ roll but a fatal hit!
Paladin ignore the health loss and ignores the damage alltogether
Paladin gets blessed by his/her Deity.. and becomes untouchable and ignore bleeding for 5 minutes - long enough to finish off the remaining foe/s or at at least the main one
Paladin teleports back to shrine/town with bandages so he/she can find an empath or get herbs etc
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Maybe I was reading this wrong. I thought the 15 minute duration was simply on the sanctuary effect. The spell only makes sense to me for 1650 if it's "always on" as long as you have an activation left. Essentially this spell WILL save you from death once a day, more with lore, if you were going to die. At that point it operates on a similar power level to 350 and 1150. Maybe a little more powerful but you if you put the uses a day on the same seed as 350 clerics could naturally get more uses cheaper because they can 2x lore and it costs them less.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
>Maybe I was reading this wrong. I thought the 15 minute duration was simply on the sanctuary effect. The spell only makes sense to me for 1650 if it's "always on" as long as you have an activation left
Yes, I might have mis-read this. My reading was you cast 1650 and it lasts for 15 minutes. In the old days, this was kind of the way spells worked: each had its own duration. If the spell wore off, another 50 mana to cast it again. If I misread it that way, it still made some sense to me, since a hunt wouldn't normally take more than ten minutes. I suppose my reference to it was useful for this clarification; in fact, I think I was out of line to reference it that way otherwise, though -- it was kind of a cheap shot.
>Here's a thought.. assuming it's possible mechanically to be able to "predict" the death blow.
Well, whether or not the format of the spell is enjoyed by players aside, this is a serious issue to me. I wonder how it would interact with Voln armor (as I have it), but again there is Temporal Reversion, Fasthr's Reward, and so on. Now, I don't say coding it is "impossible" but I will definitely say coding it is non-trivial. Estild could weigh in with an opinion, though I don't know that, at this point, it would be necessary to pick the Brain.
I do like the idea of using the 1620 target! (It wasn't explicitly stated as such, but this is more or less how it would be implemented I'm sure.) As a total aside, I'm not sure if I'm happier or sadder because town squares became 1620 targets. Of course, I was the one who posted and got some points of 1620 addressed as far as 'game secrets' and it's well known there are funky areas (I'd used the GY pooka area as an instance) where 1620 was outright garbage but other teleportation spells managed to work. I really did like the part where it used shrines and finding them; if it was me, I might have done the "default" option in areas with no shrines but...coding nightmare! Blah blah blah.
>At that point it operates on a similar power level to 350 and 1150.
And or similar to 220 as the original concept. Again, my kind of "objection" is that it doesn't strike me a have the unique zest I'd be after. I do want to emphasize that, if I sound overly critical, it's because the proposed design is well thought out and nice in a lot of ways. If definitely beats the quick hack I proposed for 1650, to be sure.
I still think the calculation of the 'deathblow' is probably too difficult to implement. Why not have it trigger on death? I don't want it to smash 1640 or 350 so, that becomes irksome as well. But I'm thinking, "You killed me, now I'm alive, and I'm a ball of death." The group aspect might need discussion (does the group get the advantage too? Do we have a way to toggle whether it will help someone in our group or not? Individuals? Could we do this in a way that got the results we wanted that wasn't annoying on the verbage to appoint a person as an approved target?)
Running with those complications and so on...
Suppose it trigger at the paladin's death only. The paladin is firstly returned to their state prior to death. And a lot more. Number one is nix all RT they had, which allows 1635 to work for most other issues that might be faced, or any society skill of interest to be activated after stun/bound/web/etc can be dropped with BESEECH. Rather than group, all of the "a lot more" hits all PCs logged in with the paladin's alignment. Not sure what it's gonna be, but enhancive stats, whatever. Say like, huge strength (think Spirit Strike for a solid minute, or whatever duration) and some large pile of phantom critical padding.
Just rolling the idea around, but by my vision here, I'm feeling more like this is awesome instead of okay. It certainly satisfies Estild's criteria where it should be known when to use it (well, maybe it's a static spell, and it triggers itself, but sure, when you died you probably wanted it). And it gets this 'avatar' concept other people mentioned in action. I like the global deity alignment aspect over the group aspect myself; group effects are cool with paladins, but we have enough of them. And alignment factors we know are lacking. It could make some wild messaging and just...craze! Some Imaera paladin diffs it in the Elven Nations and an Imaera wizard in River's Rest gets awesome AS boost for a limited time in River's Rest! The only issue I see with the global aspect (or indeed, anything outside the local group) is someone may not be hunting, so perhaps they can either get an extended duration, or an option to trigger it within a window of time.
By this point, I'd want to call it Divine Wrath or Divine Fury if those names weren't already taken...
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Yes, I might have mis-read this. My reading was you cast 1650 and it lasts for 15 minutes. In the old days, this was kind of the way spells worked: each had its own duration. If the spell wore off, another 50 mana to cast it again. If I misread it that way, it still made some sense to me, since a hunt wouldn't normally take more than ten minutes. I suppose my reference to it was useful for this clarification; in fact, I think I was out of line to reference it that way otherwise, though -- it was kind of a cheap shot.
>Here's a thought.. assuming it's possible mechanically to be able to "predict" the death blow.
Well, whether or not the format of the spell is enjoyed by players aside, this is a serious issue to me. I wonder how it would interact with Voln armor (as I have it), but again there is Temporal Reversion, Fasthr's Reward, and so on. Now, I don't say coding it is "impossible" but I will definitely say coding it is non-trivial. Estild could weigh in with an opinion, though I don't know that, at this point, it would be necessary to pick the Brain.
I do like the idea of using the 1620 target! (It wasn't explicitly stated as such, but this is more or less how it would be implemented I'm sure.) As a total aside, I'm not sure if I'm happier or sadder because town squares became 1620 targets. Of course, I was the one who posted and got some points of 1620 addressed as far as 'game secrets' and it's well known there are funky areas (I'd used the GY pooka area as an instance) where 1620 was outright garbage but other teleportation spells managed to work. I really did like the part where it used shrines and finding them; if it was me, I might have done the "default" option in areas with no shrines but...coding nightmare! Blah blah blah.
>At that point it operates on a similar power level to 350 and 1150.
And or similar to 220 as the original concept. Again, my kind of "objection" is that it doesn't strike me a have the unique zest I'd be after. I do want to emphasize that, if I sound overly critical, it's because the proposed design is well thought out and nice in a lot of ways. If definitely beats the quick hack I proposed for 1650, to be sure.
I still think the calculation of the 'deathblow' is probably too difficult to implement. Why not have it trigger on death? I don't want it to smash 1640 or 350 so, that becomes irksome as well. But I'm thinking, "You killed me, now I'm alive, and I'm a ball of death." The group aspect might need discussion (does the group get the advantage too? Do we have a way to toggle whether it will help someone in our group or not? Individuals? Could we do this in a way that got the results we wanted that wasn't annoying on the verbage to appoint a person as an approved target?)
Running with those complications and so on...
Suppose it trigger at the paladin's death only. The paladin is firstly returned to their state prior to death. And a lot more. Number one is nix all RT they had, which allows 1635 to work for most other issues that might be faced, or any society skill of interest to be activated after stun/bound/web/etc can be dropped with BESEECH. Rather than group, all of the "a lot more" hits all PCs logged in with the paladin's alignment. Not sure what it's gonna be, but enhancive stats, whatever. Say like, huge strength (think Spirit Strike for a solid minute, or whatever duration) and some large pile of phantom critical padding.
Just rolling the idea around, but by my vision here, I'm feeling more like this is awesome instead of okay. It certainly satisfies Estild's criteria where it should be known when to use it (well, maybe it's a static spell, and it triggers itself, but sure, when you died you probably wanted it). And it gets this 'avatar' concept other people mentioned in action. I like the global deity alignment aspect over the group aspect myself; group effects are cool with paladins, but we have enough of them. And alignment factors we know are lacking. It could make some wild messaging and just...craze! Some Imaera paladin diffs it in the Elven Nations and an Imaera wizard in River's Rest gets awesome AS boost for a limited time in River's Rest! The only issue I see with the global aspect (or indeed, anything outside the local group) is someone may not be hunting, so perhaps they can either get an extended duration, or an option to trigger it within a window of time.
By this point, I'd want to call it Divine Wrath or Divine Fury if those names weren't already taken...
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Also, of course, my idea as written, seems strictly better than 350, screw stepping on toes, it knocks the clerical ability down for the count.
So that may need some taming. "The paladin's spirit" can do some stuff for awhile under some kind of condition etc. Or the paladin actually dies after some duration. Maybe enough time to kill some beasts and get to a more favorable safe location to roll over and die?
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
So that may need some taming. "The paladin's spirit" can do some stuff for awhile under some kind of condition etc. Or the paladin actually dies after some duration. Maybe enough time to kill some beasts and get to a more favorable safe location to roll over and die?
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Define a lot more when the paladin is brought back to life and the duration of it.
What does the group get? What does the paladin get (And really.. the paladin, being the one who paid for this with a deed should get a better benefit than the group). Should the group get +15 Attack and the paladin 25? Should an aditional level of padding be added to the armor of the paladin and the group? So if it's fairly padded it becomes heavy padded.. or from heavy padded to master padded? Crit or damage padding? It should stack with the current armor. Then.. The paladin and the group have an umph in defense and a little extra help with the Attack.
Perhaps if 25 paladin / 15 group is extreme then make it possible with the right Lores.
I'm just rambling off.. as this can now be the "avatar" and bring us back to life.
My only question now is.. do we pay the price like with 1640 or is this ignored and thus when the effect wears off, the paladin is back to normal?
But this.. would be a good 1650 spell I will agree, Daid.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
What does the group get? What does the paladin get (And really.. the paladin, being the one who paid for this with a deed should get a better benefit than the group). Should the group get +15 Attack and the paladin 25? Should an aditional level of padding be added to the armor of the paladin and the group? So if it's fairly padded it becomes heavy padded.. or from heavy padded to master padded? Crit or damage padding? It should stack with the current armor. Then.. The paladin and the group have an umph in defense and a little extra help with the Attack.
Perhaps if 25 paladin / 15 group is extreme then make it possible with the right Lores.
I'm just rambling off.. as this can now be the "avatar" and bring us back to life.
My only question now is.. do we pay the price like with 1640 or is this ignored and thus when the effect wears off, the paladin is back to normal?
But this.. would be a good 1650 spell I will agree, Daid.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
>Define a lot more when the paladin is brought back to life and the duration of it.
I'm thinking more about not treading on 350. Let's make this the "wrathful spirit of Paladin". Duration is surely a question, so as a shot in the dark, call it five or ten minutes. This is via the "rectal pluck" technique so, consider is a basically free parameter. A better choice could be the default racial decay timer, and the user needs to UNLINK (or another verb) to end it so the character is returned to a 'normal' state (that's going to be 'the body of Paladin) wherein they can be LK'd, raised, decay, etc. If nothing happens, or unlink is not done before the timer, assume normal decay.
>What does the group get?
In my vision, nothing. Paladins have enough group boons. I'd rather run with deity alignment than group. Having the precious aspect used on a group member 'by accident' (please use your imagination so I don't need to elaborate) is nullified. And it removes any weird points to how to set who it can apply to, etc. Also, I don't want our highest spell used to benefit a situation of a high level paladin helping younger characters huzzah. Just a personal point but, if it's going to be really awesome, I do feel it's reasonable to limit how it works. I also think the deity alignment is a much more interesting concept to explore, which has remained largely useless. There was a thread some months ago about "Why So Unaligned" started by a GM with statistics and everyone just said they weren't aligned because mechanics for those other than clerics and paladins had no incentive, and only punishment for the conversion cost. My solution there was to bring alignment more to the forefront via cleric and paladin spells that affected other characters of similar or dissimilar alignment.
>Should the group get +15 Attack and the paladin 25?
As my post said, I'm using something like Spirit Strike (117) as my benchmark. So no way I'm settling for +25 AS with this level 50 spell. I'm talking +75 or +100. Group gets nothing unless they are aligned to the same deity. Group has no bearing. If the "group" aspect really needs to be pushed, divide the bonus by five let's say, if it's the same alignment pantheon by mechanics. I'd even give negatives for alternate cases.
>Should an aditional level of padding be added to the armor of the paladin and the group?
Turning the concept into a wrathful spirit this becomes irrelevant mostly. Group, again, doesn't need the benefit. Non-corp undead. And sure, toss some extra woohoos at the wrathful spirit for crit or damage padding. If it's non-corp (a spirit would be) then I suppose I'll go ahead and say damage padding. And yes, it should add with whatever else exists.
>Perhaps if 25 paladin / 15 group is extreme then make it possible with the right Lores.
I hope a tame +25 doesn't daunt a GM with this concept. Like I said, blue crystals are my basis here. But sure, we can work with some lore benefits. They can increase the AS boost, the padding level, and/or the timer duration. I'll leave the exact lore and the applicable boost as a curious idea for anyone interested to reply. I did mention three different boosts (by chance) and there are three spiritual lores. I'd expect this spell to boost from all three of them in different ways, myself. Well, at least as long as I'm envisioning a wrathful spirit of doom.
Hope that helps answer the questions.
Of course, I'm not out to steal the thunder of the OP here! Just trying to morph an okay idea into something that's rabid enough for 1650 where you can't stop drooling.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
I'm thinking more about not treading on 350. Let's make this the "wrathful spirit of Paladin". Duration is surely a question, so as a shot in the dark, call it five or ten minutes. This is via the "rectal pluck" technique so, consider is a basically free parameter. A better choice could be the default racial decay timer, and the user needs to UNLINK (or another verb) to end it so the character is returned to a 'normal' state (that's going to be 'the body of Paladin) wherein they can be LK'd, raised, decay, etc. If nothing happens, or unlink is not done before the timer, assume normal decay.
>What does the group get?
In my vision, nothing. Paladins have enough group boons. I'd rather run with deity alignment than group. Having the precious aspect used on a group member 'by accident' (please use your imagination so I don't need to elaborate) is nullified. And it removes any weird points to how to set who it can apply to, etc. Also, I don't want our highest spell used to benefit a situation of a high level paladin helping younger characters huzzah. Just a personal point but, if it's going to be really awesome, I do feel it's reasonable to limit how it works. I also think the deity alignment is a much more interesting concept to explore, which has remained largely useless. There was a thread some months ago about "Why So Unaligned" started by a GM with statistics and everyone just said they weren't aligned because mechanics for those other than clerics and paladins had no incentive, and only punishment for the conversion cost. My solution there was to bring alignment more to the forefront via cleric and paladin spells that affected other characters of similar or dissimilar alignment.
>Should the group get +15 Attack and the paladin 25?
As my post said, I'm using something like Spirit Strike (117) as my benchmark. So no way I'm settling for +25 AS with this level 50 spell. I'm talking +75 or +100. Group gets nothing unless they are aligned to the same deity. Group has no bearing. If the "group" aspect really needs to be pushed, divide the bonus by five let's say, if it's the same alignment pantheon by mechanics. I'd even give negatives for alternate cases.
>Should an aditional level of padding be added to the armor of the paladin and the group?
Turning the concept into a wrathful spirit this becomes irrelevant mostly. Group, again, doesn't need the benefit. Non-corp undead. And sure, toss some extra woohoos at the wrathful spirit for crit or damage padding. If it's non-corp (a spirit would be) then I suppose I'll go ahead and say damage padding. And yes, it should add with whatever else exists.
>Perhaps if 25 paladin / 15 group is extreme then make it possible with the right Lores.
I hope a tame +25 doesn't daunt a GM with this concept. Like I said, blue crystals are my basis here. But sure, we can work with some lore benefits. They can increase the AS boost, the padding level, and/or the timer duration. I'll leave the exact lore and the applicable boost as a curious idea for anyone interested to reply. I did mention three different boosts (by chance) and there are three spiritual lores. I'd expect this spell to boost from all three of them in different ways, myself. Well, at least as long as I'm envisioning a wrathful spirit of doom.
Hope that helps answer the questions.
Of course, I'm not out to steal the thunder of the OP here! Just trying to morph an okay idea into something that's rabid enough for 1650 where you can't stop drooling.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
I'm gonna go ahead and go with the spell name Wrathful Spirit now, for my vision.
Maybe the decay timer for race sounds lame, or disagreeable. Great! Let's do it another way instead! 1 minute per spirit point the paladin had while alive. When Wrathful Spirit ends, the character dies, and has a normal situation, and all timers start then. It still gives the neighborhood of my "5 to 10 minutes" from my rectal pluck (up to 13 minutes with max enhancives....seems fair).
We can also use this "spirit timer" for scaling the benefits. +100 AS is a nice easy number for decimal systems, and many characters will have max Aura and thus 10 spirit. Scale the AS bonus with the spirit timer. 1 spirit is lost each minute, and the bonus is multiplied by (remaining/total) spirit. +100, +90, +80 for 10, 9 and 8 spirit remaining out of 10.
Scale whatever damage padding the same way. A fresh Wrathful Spirit is harder to kill. One that's smashing things for 5 minutes is usually gonna be half as potent.
Running with all this, the question becomes, "What happens to my experience gained as a Wrathful Spirit," and all that, right? Directly gained, again scaled by remaining spirit. First minute, you're still at full spirit, so you directly gain the experience from kills. 5 minutes later with a 10 spirit character? You directly gain half the experience.
Gnaw on that!
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Maybe the decay timer for race sounds lame, or disagreeable. Great! Let's do it another way instead! 1 minute per spirit point the paladin had while alive. When Wrathful Spirit ends, the character dies, and has a normal situation, and all timers start then. It still gives the neighborhood of my "5 to 10 minutes" from my rectal pluck (up to 13 minutes with max enhancives....seems fair).
We can also use this "spirit timer" for scaling the benefits. +100 AS is a nice easy number for decimal systems, and many characters will have max Aura and thus 10 spirit. Scale the AS bonus with the spirit timer. 1 spirit is lost each minute, and the bonus is multiplied by (remaining/total) spirit. +100, +90, +80 for 10, 9 and 8 spirit remaining out of 10.
Scale whatever damage padding the same way. A fresh Wrathful Spirit is harder to kill. One that's smashing things for 5 minutes is usually gonna be half as potent.
Running with all this, the question becomes, "What happens to my experience gained as a Wrathful Spirit," and all that, right? Directly gained, again scaled by remaining spirit. First minute, you're still at full spirit, so you directly gain the experience from kills. 5 minutes later with a 10 spirit character? You directly gain half the experience.
Gnaw on that!
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
Also, I should say!
The Wrathful Spirit might just go back to town. Or somewhere easier for rescuing. (Grouping should still work, so sure. Maybe they can't drag though.)
Well, the Wrathful Spirit can "unlink" at any time. Maybe there is any bonus to unlinking early, but so far I'm okay with no bonus. But if you get killed while being a Wrathful Spirit, at the very least, now you're really dead where the Wrathful Spirit died. Maybe something worse too as an offset to super-awesome, but I hope if that's the vision it isn't too nasty. That, anyway, gives this kind of hourglass count down.
Another question is what a Wrathful Spirit can actually do. I'm thinking they can't cast spells, or if they can, it's very limited by some means. That's a nice lore tie-in right there, by the way. More of some lore, you are able to cast spells of a higher level, or some such.
But if the experience gain is going to be direct, I'm fairly okay with some harder punishment for the spirit dying, like another deed at least (as opposed to UNLINKing which won't drain another deed).
Again, food for thought here is what I'm after.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
The Wrathful Spirit might just go back to town. Or somewhere easier for rescuing. (Grouping should still work, so sure. Maybe they can't drag though.)
Well, the Wrathful Spirit can "unlink" at any time. Maybe there is any bonus to unlinking early, but so far I'm okay with no bonus. But if you get killed while being a Wrathful Spirit, at the very least, now you're really dead where the Wrathful Spirit died. Maybe something worse too as an offset to super-awesome, but I hope if that's the vision it isn't too nasty. That, anyway, gives this kind of hourglass count down.
Another question is what a Wrathful Spirit can actually do. I'm thinking they can't cast spells, or if they can, it's very limited by some means. That's a nice lore tie-in right there, by the way. More of some lore, you are able to cast spells of a higher level, or some such.
But if the experience gain is going to be direct, I'm fairly okay with some harder punishment for the spirit dying, like another deed at least (as opposed to UNLINKing which won't drain another deed).
Again, food for thought here is what I'm after.
>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."
