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ReplyPay a tax? Get the greatest spell in our professional Sorcerer Spell Circle
""In the Common language, it reads:
~*~ Welcome to Deluxe Transport Services ~*~
Initial Ticket Prices:
For training range 0 - 9: 5,000 silvers
For training range 10 - 19: 25,000 silvers
For training range 20 and up: 50,000 silvers
Each successive ticket purchase increases by that flat amount again, up to a maximum of 250,000 silvers for the most experienced of travelers.
~~*~~
Transport Rules:
1 - A limit of 10 one-way trips can be made by each traveler per calendar month.
2 - The ticket can only be used by the individual who bought it.
3 - Tickets will expire at the end of the calendar month, no matter how close to the end they were purchased.
~~*~~
Thank you for using Four Winds for your travel needs.""
First trip costs one chalk, each successive trip up to 10 trips may cost more, but zero percent chance of hindrance or failure, and how many of us chalk 10x a month (for those without a chalk pouch).
When will we be able to spend silvers to attain access to other mechanically beneficial spell circle powers? I guess Premium Points started it by nerfing wizard enchant to 7x and then offering a way to spend money to go back to 10x.
I really feel the developers should just decide on a flat fee for everyone so we don't have to constantly see changes down to the game that can be offered by paying up a premium fee (which I finally made the switch, I mean who doesn't want some Premium Points who has been around for a decade or more?)
Anyhow, just a rant, flame on
I think I'm going to have to agree with the impact statement.
Hard for me to find a bright side to lift into this one.
How about this -- maybe this sets the stage for requesting non-rechargable spell knowledge items that can be bought for silvers through the premium system?
Yeah, weak. . . I know.
Doug
Hard for me to find a bright side to lift into this one.
How about this -- maybe this sets the stage for requesting non-rechargable spell knowledge items that can be bought for silvers through the premium system?
Yeah, weak. . . I know.
Doug
Makes me wonder if either the price of this should be increased, or the price of high quality chalks should be decreased. I can get them for around 43,000 because of Citizenship, but even then . . . that doesn't quite seem fair, even if its only 1 time per month.
I don't suppose Premium Sorcerers get a reduced rate since they pay the same price?
I don't suppose Premium Sorcerers get a reduced rate since they pay the same price?
I've long ranted that 740 is just a coupon off chronomage services, this makes it even worse. Every time we ask our circle be improved, ignorant members of other professions come back with "But you have 740, that is so awesome." It isn't like it is free to use, you need lore, and you need 50k a pop too. Chronomage is available to all for 100k.
740 is basically a Chronomage Groupon, we should change the name to that.
Now it is even worse. How often do you even need to use 740? Any premium member can use it once a month now, then chronomage back, for a round trip cost of 150k. So we're at a 33% discount now. Wow, this is what we trade a spell slot for? Look at all the bells and whistles you guys crammed into spells like 325 and 1625, 740 does one thing, and it does it at high cost, and it is something everyone else can do already. No one needs to use 740 more than a couple times a month, if that. I can go months without using it. Plus multiple unlimited festival cross realm teleporters have gone out in the past, which are free to use.
Lets get rid of 740, replace it with something else. It is a waste of a spell slot, seriously. Get rid of it.
cross posted from premium benefits subforum
As a premium subscriber I love this change, especially the jewelry changes which were stupidly annoying before. Fixing that, and fixing the shop biases previously, show you're really working to put value into premium. Now you just need a fusion shaman up on four winds. Though... is a nexus on four winds too? I think a transport nexus on four winds would be cool, allowing you to go to any town.
As a sorcerer I'm significantly upset that our highest level professional spell was, yet again, undermined. My question is, when planning this change, did GMs even discuss how this would significantly devalue the highest level professional spell of a pure profession that isn't exactly known for all the high quality spells it has? Did you guys even discuss it, and if you did, what was the grand recompense you planned for 740?
I've long disliked 740 as a mere coupon. Now it is like getting an email groupon for a manicure. Its a discount on something I don't even need. Afterall, you've released free festival transporters that allow me to zip here and there once a month for free, then I have this premium system that allows a round trip per month for 150k, or 50k there and walking back (since, if I'm teleporting for a merchant or invasion, the trip back is less pressing I often walk back, even with knowledge of 740). So really, I can get 3 trips (walking back) for 150k a month now, instead of 100k with 740. How often do I even need to use 740? I go months without using it at all, with this change that'll increase. I could see not using it for 6 months or even a year.
You've also of course reduced travel times lately, which of course also undermines 740's usefulness. Even that new voln ability undermines it a little bit.
I think all these changes to travel are on balance good for the game, but they really undermine sorcery, and what is the restitution for the 700 circle I ask? Just some ideas... get rid of it and give us 240. Keep it as is but decrease chalk cost to 25k (its still a coupon, but a better coupon) AND allow teleportation to and from any plane of the rift for free from anywhere in game, or out of the rift to anywhere in game, treating rift teleports as intrarealm everywhere. Not to the cavern mind you, but to the rift itself. I think you could very easily RP justify that. The spell is called PLANAR SHIFT afterall, the rift is a bunch of parallel planes of existence. Right now one needs to go to the cavern of ages to enter it, but back during the rift release event the vvrael could break through anywhere in the world because the rift is connected to everywhere. If the vvrael could break through anywhere, it'd make sense a sorcerer using PLANAR SHIFT could as well. Or hey... get rid of the intrarealm interrealm distinction entirely... every other game system is moving towards increased travel, why not this, why not allow sorcerers unlimited (with lore training) interrealm travel? When 740 was created chronomages didn't exist, this new premium system didn't exist, 325 teleporting didn't exist, the new voln teleporting didn't exist. There are only like 10 sorcerers left anyways, give us this cookie.
While I agree that the change is certainly good for the game in general it absolutely just made planar shift irrelevant and took away one of the very unique things sorcerers have/had. I hope someone took this into consideration and would look to make some changes to 740 or perhaps slide something different into that slot. As a premium player I do like it but as a sorcerer I feel like someone just gut punched the profession. Let's wait and see.....
It was suggested elsewhere, and I wholeheartedly agree. Make 740 able to transport groups of people into adjacent realms, as a companion tweak to the transport update. It would make sorcerors instantly in demand by other classes for things other than spell infusion. With a sorc in your group, you can hunt the Rift and poof down to the Icemule while loaded to the gills. You can avoid the Nelemar swim, or teleport to the ducts in OTF without having to run through the ugly portion.
Off the top of my head, every other profession has something that they can really bring to the table in a group situation, except sorcerors. Give them this and instantly the profession becomes in demand, maybe for the first time in a while.
Off the top of my head, every other profession has something that they can really bring to the table in a group situation, except sorcerors. Give them this and instantly the profession becomes in demand, maybe for the first time in a while.
just get rid of the intrarelm interrealm distinction altogether, one chalk (the cheap one). Is it really game breaking to let sorcerers travel so quickly? Since the game is obviously moving towards easier travel, why not? We're a very unpopular profession.
Maybe such a move would have been extreme years ago, but that was before chronomages, premium travel, voln's new teleporting, lower travel times across dragonspine, travel guides, and nexus gems. It doesn't seem very extreme anymore.
The people with expensive chalk generating auction items... Give them something in trade. An illusion rattle is worth about the same on the secondary market. Or offer to switch it to a runestone pouch, or a never ending bit of common chalk.
Or keep the expensive chalk but only require it for interrealm group travel. A solo sorcerer can go anywhere by himself.
And open up the rift for direct teleportation into, its cool and only makes sense. Maybe on a backfire you let vvrael out of something, that'd be neat.
Or, we can always trade it for 240.
I virtually never post here, but this change makes me want to add my opinion to the mix.
740 was one of my favorite things about being a sorcerer and now I feel much of the uniqueness of 740 has been undermined. Just this week I got my demonology lore up to 99% cross-realms success rate as a long term post cap goal and I was excited about it.
I feel this spell should NOT be removed from us, just boosted to make the game more fun for everyone while still maintaining balance. I agree with several previous posters that the best way to make this spell great again would be to allow GROUP CROSS REALMS travel. The lore requirements for this spell are already severe. With 96 ranks of demonology lore this represents about half of my available lore training devoted to a 9% boost in cross realm success rate at the cost of 576 mtps or 1152 ptps, 960k xp or so converting. Simply keeping the same seed for passengers as the same realm transport with a reduced chalk cost would be a great boost to the spell.
Do any other spells have severe lore requirements to add passengers? 130 zero, nexus gems zero, voln zero, 1020 zero, familiar gate zero.
Just some thoughts.
-Draithe
740 was one of my favorite things about being a sorcerer and now I feel much of the uniqueness of 740 has been undermined. Just this week I got my demonology lore up to 99% cross-realms success rate as a long term post cap goal and I was excited about it.
I feel this spell should NOT be removed from us, just boosted to make the game more fun for everyone while still maintaining balance. I agree with several previous posters that the best way to make this spell great again would be to allow GROUP CROSS REALMS travel. The lore requirements for this spell are already severe. With 96 ranks of demonology lore this represents about half of my available lore training devoted to a 9% boost in cross realm success rate at the cost of 576 mtps or 1152 ptps, 960k xp or so converting. Simply keeping the same seed for passengers as the same realm transport with a reduced chalk cost would be a great boost to the spell.
Do any other spells have severe lore requirements to add passengers? 130 zero, nexus gems zero, voln zero, 1020 zero, familiar gate zero.
Just some thoughts.
-Draithe
>Even that new voln ability undermines it a little bit.
Speaking of which... seeing as how it is now possible to teleport into areas that were previously blocked to teleportation and we're giving sorcerer abilities out to people, could we at LEAST allow our level 40 spell to teleport us into these 'blocked' areas? IC justification doesn't matter to me; make up whatever you feel is necessary. If some jobber can use Voln to port into 'blocked' areas, it's pretty maddening that the current-day pinnacle spell in the 700 list cannot do the same. It should be pretty easy to see why one should be more powerful than the other, but I'll go ahead and just toss out some things for kicks:
Symbol of Seeking: a skill that can be obtained via society prior to level 20 vs Planar Shift: a level 40, profession-circle spell (that alone should be a significant reason for 740 being more powerful).
Seeking requires, uh, you have to be in a voln monastery. That's it. Shift requires a rune book, finding and entering runes in said book (which requires the sorcerer to travel to each desired location), chalk (of which there are two types we need to keep around), and a hefty lore investment. It almost seems petty to mention mana as a cost for 740 after the other stuff, but damn; to shift you need mana, chalk, book, draw circle (induces RT), draw pattern (more RT), before you can finally cast the spell vs a three second run to voln and typing 'sym seek'.
Seeking doesn't fail. Shift can fail. Shift can kill you and others when it fails.
Don't get me wrong. I love 740. I think it's an awesome addition to sorcery. I understand why some areas along the various trails between towns (such as the different spots between WL and Illistim) are blocked and am not requesting that they become unblocked. In general, I've never had a problem with how 740 works, from the material requirements up to the process itself. But, since we're tossing out anti-teleport rules for Voln people, it should apply here as well. It gets frustrating when things like the premi teleport and voln seeking are added. It's bad enough that we seem to be the profession with the low-hanging fruit anyone and everyone can come get a piece of, but then when they turn around and do things in an all-around easier way, it really sucks. Our 'profession defining' (does anyone even know what that means in regard to sorcery? I'm just going with 725 and 730 as far as spells go) spells are, by general consensus, weak and too rarely used for a variety of fixable reasons. Sadly, the way things seem to go around here, they'll never get fixed or updated. Seems that after something is released, that's it outside of a short period of time post-release for bug fixes and minor tweaks. The code will be too old, the people working on things now won't have any idea what the other guy did, new people simply don't care, etc, etc. Now you go and throw the teleport thing out there which reduces another of our high level spells, even if it isn't exactly profession defining (though I guess the case COULD be made based on planar travel and all that).
Sorcerous skills/abilities given to others:
I'm not really sure how we managed to keep mind jolt, eye spy, quake, nightmare, and evil eye aside from the fact that there would be no sorcerers left had we lost those as well. I think we were given some ridiculous 'elemental illusion' story when it came to quake and demon illusions back when they were discussing the proposed break-downs for GSIV with all the elemental, spiritual, and mental stuff.
As to 740. Everyone has access to chronomages at a more costly rate. Now, premium has limited access to porting at a reduced rate and Voln people are able to not only directly teleport from Icemule to the Cavern of Ages (pretty sure this would count as cross-realms for 740, but I really haven't done much out that way in years and I know there have been some changes, so maybe not), but they can port into other blocked places like Nelemar.
I'm all for the advancement of other professions, guilds, societies, etc. I'm not trying to keep the other guys down, but god damn. I'm not even against the idea that these things are given to others to some degree, but when nearly every single thing that is 'copied' from us and given to others works easier and/or better, it does nothing but water down the Sorcerer profession. A profession which, by and large, does not use its higher level spells and those that are used, when they are used, we have to jump through all sorts of hoops the other people are not similarly made to jump through with their clones.
I won't lie. I don't know paladin spells well enough to comment aside from this: I see 1625, 1630, 1635, and 1640 on the list. 1640 is a limited raise dead, so potentially 3 frequent-use, high-level spells. As someone who primarily plays spellcasters, it's pretty damn hard to swallow the fact that semis have more high level spells than sorcerers and wizards. It doesn't make sense on so many levels it's ridiculous. Anyhow, lets break down the high level spells (for professions that count; paladins don't exist!)
Yes, I excluded the minor lists. Personally, I'm inclined to take the mass dispels off that list, but I believe there are people that like and use them, so they're there. I don't imagine 125 gets much use, but if it does, feel free to chalk up yet another spell in the empath and cleric slots. Sorcerers aren't using it. 130, same thing pretty much. It's good for sorcerers that don't have the extra 10 levels or mana for 740, otherwise it's inferior. 135... heh. Find a sorcerer that has the CS to hit anything with it and I'll show you a sorcerer who's failing at his training. You can probably say the same for clerics and empaths as far as that one goes. 140- yeah. I've probably cast that spell more times in one sitting to spell up during GSIII than I have in total since the change. 425/430 are 'buffs' that the game is designed around, much like 1130, and so do not qualify for this list as far as I'm concerned. 435 is a nice gimmick, I guess. Sorta. Does anyone frequently use it? If they do, I imagine sorcerers would have the least reason of any to do so.
So... that went a little long and got off-track a bit. I was going to go into the sorcery additions we've had in recent years, but with the length of this thing and the fact that I don't really believe they tie in with the subject, I'm going to be brief. I see 714 as a pretty similarly balanced 517 (probably biased, but I think 714 is a bit more of a pain). 712 retribution = awesome, unique defense. 704 update pretty awesome, was unique until Voln update. 713 = good stuff; long time coming for a sorcerer list bolt/ball spell. 715 update, necessary to facilitate 713. Got some decent new curses and potentially getting the ability to combine curses. I'll believe it when I see it, unfortunately. I fear it will be abandoned, but in Simu terms, it's still early, I guess. Minor update to nightmare; 100% RP gimmick. Neat, but really I'd have much, much rather had combined curses. Of those additions, only one could really be considered a clone of another profession's ability. That would be 714. Might be a problem if we could just pick up a scroll, cast 714, and infuse mana, but apparently that sort of thing is for the other eight professions (I told you paladins don't exist. Stop trying to force them on me!).
And for some perspective: I have two premium accounts; not really a fan of the teleport stuff being added. Will I use it? Sure. It's there. I have a capped sorcerer, wizard, and two empaths. Two rogues and two sorcerers (30-50 range), a bard (mid 30s), cleric (60ish, haven't played in ages), and a monk (28).
Speaking of which... seeing as how it is now possible to teleport into areas that were previously blocked to teleportation and we're giving sorcerer abilities out to people, could we at LEAST allow our level 40 spell to teleport us into these 'blocked' areas? IC justification doesn't matter to me; make up whatever you feel is necessary. If some jobber can use Voln to port into 'blocked' areas, it's pretty maddening that the current-day pinnacle spell in the 700 list cannot do the same. It should be pretty easy to see why one should be more powerful than the other, but I'll go ahead and just toss out some things for kicks:
Symbol of Seeking: a skill that can be obtained via society prior to level 20 vs Planar Shift: a level 40, profession-circle spell (that alone should be a significant reason for 740 being more powerful).
Seeking requires, uh, you have to be in a voln monastery. That's it. Shift requires a rune book, finding and entering runes in said book (which requires the sorcerer to travel to each desired location), chalk (of which there are two types we need to keep around), and a hefty lore investment. It almost seems petty to mention mana as a cost for 740 after the other stuff, but damn; to shift you need mana, chalk, book, draw circle (induces RT), draw pattern (more RT), before you can finally cast the spell vs a three second run to voln and typing 'sym seek'.
Seeking doesn't fail. Shift can fail. Shift can kill you and others when it fails.
Don't get me wrong. I love 740. I think it's an awesome addition to sorcery. I understand why some areas along the various trails between towns (such as the different spots between WL and Illistim) are blocked and am not requesting that they become unblocked. In general, I've never had a problem with how 740 works, from the material requirements up to the process itself. But, since we're tossing out anti-teleport rules for Voln people, it should apply here as well. It gets frustrating when things like the premi teleport and voln seeking are added. It's bad enough that we seem to be the profession with the low-hanging fruit anyone and everyone can come get a piece of, but then when they turn around and do things in an all-around easier way, it really sucks. Our 'profession defining' (does anyone even know what that means in regard to sorcery? I'm just going with 725 and 730 as far as spells go) spells are, by general consensus, weak and too rarely used for a variety of fixable reasons. Sadly, the way things seem to go around here, they'll never get fixed or updated. Seems that after something is released, that's it outside of a short period of time post-release for bug fixes and minor tweaks. The code will be too old, the people working on things now won't have any idea what the other guy did, new people simply don't care, etc, etc. Now you go and throw the teleport thing out there which reduces another of our high level spells, even if it isn't exactly profession defining (though I guess the case COULD be made based on planar travel and all that).
Sorcerous skills/abilities given to others:
| Sorcerer Ability | New ability |
| 704, offensive | Smite (Voln) |
| 703 (Forget) | Yeah. The profession that gets Forget doesn't exist and probably won't for several years to come |
| 710 | 914, enhanced with lore |
| 719 | 519, enhanced with lore, lacks limitations of 719 (yeah, it requires a lot of lore. Are there any sorcerers that would not accept a 719 that works on everything, prevents casting and most likely other actions as well, at the cost of lore training?) |
| 730 | 630, Are there rangers with 630 that don't use it? Any GM wanna chime in with some data as to which one of those spells is used and how frequently? I can tell you it's gonna lean heavily towards 630. Yeah, there may be some upkeep and pain-in-the-ass factor with 630, but I'd wager my last penny it's nothing close to 730 |
| 740 | Chronomage. Nexus gem (325). Premium (limited). Voln (limited). |
I'm not really sure how we managed to keep mind jolt, eye spy, quake, nightmare, and evil eye aside from the fact that there would be no sorcerers left had we lost those as well. I think we were given some ridiculous 'elemental illusion' story when it came to quake and demon illusions back when they were discussing the proposed break-downs for GSIV with all the elemental, spiritual, and mental stuff.
As to 740. Everyone has access to chronomages at a more costly rate. Now, premium has limited access to porting at a reduced rate and Voln people are able to not only directly teleport from Icemule to the Cavern of Ages (pretty sure this would count as cross-realms for 740, but I really haven't done much out that way in years and I know there have been some changes, so maybe not), but they can port into other blocked places like Nelemar.
I'm all for the advancement of other professions, guilds, societies, etc. I'm not trying to keep the other guys down, but god damn. I'm not even against the idea that these things are given to others to some degree, but when nearly every single thing that is 'copied' from us and given to others works easier and/or better, it does nothing but water down the Sorcerer profession. A profession which, by and large, does not use its higher level spells and those that are used, when they are used, we have to jump through all sorts of hoops the other people are not similarly made to jump through with their clones.
I won't lie. I don't know paladin spells well enough to comment aside from this: I see 1625, 1630, 1635, and 1640 on the list. 1640 is a limited raise dead, so potentially 3 frequent-use, high-level spells. As someone who primarily plays spellcasters, it's pretty damn hard to swallow the fact that semis have more high level spells than sorcerers and wizards. It doesn't make sense on so many levels it's ridiculous. Anyhow, lets break down the high level spells (for professions that count; paladins don't exist!)
| Profession: | Useful high level spells: |
| Cleric: | 225, 230, 240, 325, 330, and 350 |
| Empath: | 225, 230, 240, 1125, and 1150 |
| Wizard: | 925, 930, 530, and 540 |
| Sorcerer: | 740 |
| Ranger: | 625, 630, 635, 640, and 650 |
| Bard: | 1025, 1030, 1035, and 1040 |
Yes, I excluded the minor lists. Personally, I'm inclined to take the mass dispels off that list, but I believe there are people that like and use them, so they're there. I don't imagine 125 gets much use, but if it does, feel free to chalk up yet another spell in the empath and cleric slots. Sorcerers aren't using it. 130, same thing pretty much. It's good for sorcerers that don't have the extra 10 levels or mana for 740, otherwise it's inferior. 135... heh. Find a sorcerer that has the CS to hit anything with it and I'll show you a sorcerer who's failing at his training. You can probably say the same for clerics and empaths as far as that one goes. 140- yeah. I've probably cast that spell more times in one sitting to spell up during GSIII than I have in total since the change. 425/430 are 'buffs' that the game is designed around, much like 1130, and so do not qualify for this list as far as I'm concerned. 435 is a nice gimmick, I guess. Sorta. Does anyone frequently use it? If they do, I imagine sorcerers would have the least reason of any to do so.
So... that went a little long and got off-track a bit. I was going to go into the sorcery additions we've had in recent years, but with the length of this thing and the fact that I don't really believe they tie in with the subject, I'm going to be brief. I see 714 as a pretty similarly balanced 517 (probably biased, but I think 714 is a bit more of a pain). 712 retribution = awesome, unique defense. 704 update pretty awesome, was unique until Voln update. 713 = good stuff; long time coming for a sorcerer list bolt/ball spell. 715 update, necessary to facilitate 713. Got some decent new curses and potentially getting the ability to combine curses. I'll believe it when I see it, unfortunately. I fear it will be abandoned, but in Simu terms, it's still early, I guess. Minor update to nightmare; 100% RP gimmick. Neat, but really I'd have much, much rather had combined curses. Of those additions, only one could really be considered a clone of another profession's ability. That would be 714. Might be a problem if we could just pick up a scroll, cast 714, and infuse mana, but apparently that sort of thing is for the other eight professions (I told you paladins don't exist. Stop trying to force them on me!).
And for some perspective: I have two premium accounts; not really a fan of the teleport stuff being added. Will I use it? Sure. It's there. I have a capped sorcerer, wizard, and two empaths. Two rogues and two sorcerers (30-50 range), a bard (mid 30s), cleric (60ish, haven't played in ages), and a monk (28).
>Speaking of which... seeing as how it is now possible to teleport into areas that were previously blocked to teleportation and we're giving sorcerer abilities out to people, could we at LEAST allow our level 40 spell to teleport us into these 'blocked' areas? IC justification doesn't matter to me; make up whatever you feel is necessary. If some jobber can use Voln to port into 'blocked' areas, it's pretty maddening that the current-day pinnacle spell in the 700 list cannot do the same. It should be pretty easy to see why one should be more powerful than the other, but I'll go ahead and just toss out some things for kicks:
This too, because theoretically according to the IC magical system, it should, the block is in fact OOC.
740 should be able to go into every single room in game, outside of merchant tents, special invasion rooms, GM hangouts, player houses, jails etc. You should be able to teleport from nelemar to the heart of the rift and back again. From the bowels, to troll kings, to the AI crystal room, to the ledge workshop in gremlins, to the Summoning Chamber in the sheru monastery, to the deck of the glaesen star, to Maaghara's tower, to cavernhold, then back to the bowels.
Why? Because everywhere is attached to demonic planes. Terrestrial magic cannot block demonic travel, it is a glaring inconsistency in game mechanics. You can summon demons in places you cannot rift into. Also, I happen to know vvrael have arrived through a rift in one of those sheru monastery rooms, during the rift release event, but of course using the same mode of travel sorcerers cannot? Balderdash.
Oh, and lets everyone remember, I believe it was leaked that Savants would be able to cross realm teleport as well.... so ya....
Also, balefire should work against antimagic/magic barrier creatures, because ya, its demon juju.
One other point to remember, we're an unpopular profession. This is an indicator of power and should reassure you how few people there would be cross realming all over the place.
Logged in right now:
Wizards: 48
Empaths: 26
Clerics: 26
Rogues: 21
Rangers: 21
Warriors: 18
Bards: 16
Sorcerers: 11
Paladins: 11
Monks: 4
We're by far the least popular non-expansion profession.
>Logged in right now:
>Wizards: 48
Wow, note to self. Don't play a wizard.
Estild, I'm glad you are considering improvements to this spell in consideration of its loss of value and uniqueness. Before, we were the only profession which could consistantly travel the realms, at 50k a travel. Chronomages offers this for 100k, but limited. Now this offers the same for 50k at a scaling price. The scaling price is almost irrelevant, as people do not often travel that much that often due to a price point like that. Who I TRULY feel sorry for is Premium wizards, who now have a carbon copy of their spell waiting for them.
How would wizards feel if there was a Premium enchanting system which allowed ANY class to enchant anything, for the exact same silver cost as a wizard, but with no chsnce of failure . . . with the prohibition that if they did it more than once a month, they paid double each time? "Oh, but such a thing will never happen!" Now should it. Yet it did, to our spell. Still, you acknowledge the issue, and there are a few suggestions I have which I believe could enhance its viability, in light of A) This new system, B) The new Voln symbol and C) Decreased travel times.
1. Decrease chalk cost. This spell was implemented at a time when cross realms travel was Chronomage only (actually, around the same time, before I think). That puts a reasonable price point on the chalk, but times have changed. Furthermore, travel time between Vaalor/Illistim, through Zul Logoth, and a handful of other transportation time sinks have been sped up. Cross Realms travel, except to outliers like Teras, is now significantly sped up. I think I made the Illistim/Landing run in about 15 minutes yesterday. I could have scripted that to Solhaven/Icemule for another 2. For this to be useful now, the chalk cost must be reduced. I believe that 25k is a good MINIMUM price to consider, but honestly, 20k sounds about right to me.
2. Decrease lore requirements. As it stands, the requirements are 12 ranks for every 1% over 90% success rate. Drop this to 6 (100% at 60 ranks) or 10 (100% at 100 ranks). All three of these figures are significant training obstacles with limited benefit.
3. This is in response to a decreased use of the cross-realm transport, as well as the Voln symbol: With sufficient training, 100% success with INTRA-realm travel should be possible. "But Wizard Gate and 130 have failures and downsides!" And both of those are rank 30 spells. This is a rank 40 spell with TWO material requirements, chalk and a book. Why should it have the same success rate as Wizard gate? Even so, I think it should keep the same general low-level success rate, but should be possible to train up to 100%. I believe GM-Nilven said that the maximum was 95%. Right now, I am even dissuaded from using the intra-realm version of the spell due to public embarrassment from the backfire.
4. Controversial: Add a cross-realms group component. Make it Demonology related. If you use the 100% = 60 ranks formula, make it that every 60 ranks after that you can bring another player with you. 1 at 120 and 2 at 180. At this point, is it so broken? Its not like all travel except RR and Teras couldn't be done in 20 minutes walking anyway, or 30 for Ta'Vaalor.
I am not saying every single one of these should be implemented, but I think it would take at least two of the above to compensate the spell for these changes, which have consistantly been undermining the power. I would like to point out that Clerics can now travel to adjacent realms. I am not aware if this allows travel to RR/Teras from the mainland, but if it does, it is now SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than 740, and these two towns are the vast majority of the travel time in the world.
If you would provide feedback on these suggestions Estild, it would be very much appreciated.
>Wizards: 48
Wow, note to self. Don't play a wizard.
Estild, I'm glad you are considering improvements to this spell in consideration of its loss of value and uniqueness. Before, we were the only profession which could consistantly travel the realms, at 50k a travel. Chronomages offers this for 100k, but limited. Now this offers the same for 50k at a scaling price. The scaling price is almost irrelevant, as people do not often travel that much that often due to a price point like that. Who I TRULY feel sorry for is Premium wizards, who now have a carbon copy of their spell waiting for them.
How would wizards feel if there was a Premium enchanting system which allowed ANY class to enchant anything, for the exact same silver cost as a wizard, but with no chsnce of failure . . . with the prohibition that if they did it more than once a month, they paid double each time? "Oh, but such a thing will never happen!" Now should it. Yet it did, to our spell. Still, you acknowledge the issue, and there are a few suggestions I have which I believe could enhance its viability, in light of A) This new system, B) The new Voln symbol and C) Decreased travel times.
1. Decrease chalk cost. This spell was implemented at a time when cross realms travel was Chronomage only (actually, around the same time, before I think). That puts a reasonable price point on the chalk, but times have changed. Furthermore, travel time between Vaalor/Illistim, through Zul Logoth, and a handful of other transportation time sinks have been sped up. Cross Realms travel, except to outliers like Teras, is now significantly sped up. I think I made the Illistim/Landing run in about 15 minutes yesterday. I could have scripted that to Solhaven/Icemule for another 2. For this to be useful now, the chalk cost must be reduced. I believe that 25k is a good MINIMUM price to consider, but honestly, 20k sounds about right to me.
2. Decrease lore requirements. As it stands, the requirements are 12 ranks for every 1% over 90% success rate. Drop this to 6 (100% at 60 ranks) or 10 (100% at 100 ranks). All three of these figures are significant training obstacles with limited benefit.
3. This is in response to a decreased use of the cross-realm transport, as well as the Voln symbol: With sufficient training, 100% success with INTRA-realm travel should be possible. "But Wizard Gate and 130 have failures and downsides!" And both of those are rank 30 spells. This is a rank 40 spell with TWO material requirements, chalk and a book. Why should it have the same success rate as Wizard gate? Even so, I think it should keep the same general low-level success rate, but should be possible to train up to 100%. I believe GM-Nilven said that the maximum was 95%. Right now, I am even dissuaded from using the intra-realm version of the spell due to public embarrassment from the backfire.
4. Controversial: Add a cross-realms group component. Make it Demonology related. If you use the 100% = 60 ranks formula, make it that every 60 ranks after that you can bring another player with you. 1 at 120 and 2 at 180. At this point, is it so broken? Its not like all travel except RR and Teras couldn't be done in 20 minutes walking anyway, or 30 for Ta'Vaalor.
I am not saying every single one of these should be implemented, but I think it would take at least two of the above to compensate the spell for these changes, which have consistantly been undermining the power. I would like to point out that Clerics can now travel to adjacent realms. I am not aware if this allows travel to RR/Teras from the mainland, but if it does, it is now SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than 740, and these two towns are the vast majority of the travel time in the world.
If you would provide feedback on these suggestions Estild, it would be very much appreciated.
>Who I TRULY feel sorry for is Premium wizards, who now have a carbon copy of their spell waiting for them.
Bah, all that for a horrendous typo. Meant to say premium sorcerers, who now have their own spell as a premium benefit. It makes both this new system AND 740 less useful in comparison.
Bah, all that for a horrendous typo. Meant to say premium sorcerers, who now have their own spell as a premium benefit. It makes both this new system AND 740 less useful in comparison.
I play my sorcerer because I like the locker system and hunting down useless junk I'd never otherwise pick up if I saw. Between 713, 725, 730, 740, and alchemy I'm assured that I'll never have to go more then ten minutes without paying a visit to my locker, foraging for some sort of plant (with no training in survival, because I need those points to get 20 spells above my level), killing things I can't even learn from anymore en mass, or trying to remember whether it's the sorcerer guild or the alchemist that sells that thing I need.
Of course I could carry around my runestones, paintbrush, cauldron, moonflowers, trolls blood, mortar, pestle, chalk, book, tome, vials, and jars.... but then I'd only get to see my locker when I need to switch those out for the five metric tons of wands that are necessary for me to complete a hunt with a full head.
Which brings me to my other favorite thing about sorcery in today's Gemstone: After lever 40, I no longer have to worry about frying my head using my own mana. No, I get to cast a 6 mana spell to stun them two or three times before I hit them, then a 15 mana spell to lower their TD to a point where it only takes me either three casts of a 19 mana spell or around 20 casts of a 5 mana spell to kill. Of course, that's assuming that something a higher level then I am doesn't wander in in the meantime, meaning I have to cast between 1 and 4 casts of a 20 mana spell to kill THAT with no chance of being able to search it afterwards before going back to the critter I wanted to kill.... but alas, my mana's gone and I just used the last charge in my last wand.
Good thing my mind is only muddled, because I just can't stand sitting around being forced to RP while I absorb it all. No, now I can sit around for three hours imbedding rods for my next hunt... just as soon as I find a ranger to imbue a bunch of sticks for me.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Of course I could carry around my runestones, paintbrush, cauldron, moonflowers, trolls blood, mortar, pestle, chalk, book, tome, vials, and jars.... but then I'd only get to see my locker when I need to switch those out for the five metric tons of wands that are necessary for me to complete a hunt with a full head.
Which brings me to my other favorite thing about sorcery in today's Gemstone: After lever 40, I no longer have to worry about frying my head using my own mana. No, I get to cast a 6 mana spell to stun them two or three times before I hit them, then a 15 mana spell to lower their TD to a point where it only takes me either three casts of a 19 mana spell or around 20 casts of a 5 mana spell to kill. Of course, that's assuming that something a higher level then I am doesn't wander in in the meantime, meaning I have to cast between 1 and 4 casts of a 20 mana spell to kill THAT with no chance of being able to search it afterwards before going back to the critter I wanted to kill.... but alas, my mana's gone and I just used the last charge in my last wand.
Good thing my mind is only muddled, because I just can't stand sitting around being forced to RP while I absorb it all. No, now I can sit around for three hours imbedding rods for my next hunt... just as soon as I find a ranger to imbue a bunch of sticks for me.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
730 vs 630
I would like to have an option to keep a lesser demon as a mix between a wizards familiar (920) and a ranger's companion (630) that might keep its current underutilized combat mechanic but increase it's abilities to include some such as pick up & hide in my backpack ( as i'm too lazy to learn illusion ), and maybe carry a little more reliably and follow...
Rolfard blows a small flute and a grantris scurries by carrying 4 boxes on its back until it reaches his leg and climbs on his back. The grantris winks and nibbles on his ear.
I would like to have an option to keep a lesser demon as a mix between a wizards familiar (920) and a ranger's companion (630) that might keep its current underutilized combat mechanic but increase it's abilities to include some such as pick up & hide in my backpack ( as i'm too lazy to learn illusion ), and maybe carry a little more reliably and follow...
Rolfard blows a small flute and a grantris scurries by carrying 4 boxes on its back until it reaches his leg and climbs on his back. The grantris winks and nibbles on his ear.
I'm glad to hear you're aware of the concerns and listening to feedback.
I agree with the great majority here that one way to mitigate the effect of these FWI changes on Sorcerers is to make 740 friendly to group travel. Since 740 is already keyed to demonology lores, it would be relatively simple to make changes that affect the number of group members that could travel with the sorcerer at any given time (since I anticipate that will be a concern). I also think that lowering the cost of cross-realms chalk would be an intelligent change.
740 is one of my favorite spells. But 740 has a failure component to it (I recently released a demon on Teras during a major failure!) and using FWI does not. So FWI is, in some ways, a superior travel method because the sorcerer doesn't risk getting killed by his/her own major-fail-demon. That makes using 740 even less attractive.
Lots of people are calling for a major overhaul of our spells. While I agree with that position in theory - and I'm one of the people that worked with Romulus back when he was the Sorcerer guru, so I have definitely thought about Sorcerer spells - I think we need to focus on this specific issue right now. Otherwise it's going to be lost in the shuffle of "Oh, this is typical Sorcerer whining about another one of their spells getting nerfed." While I disagree very strongly with that sentiment, better to get this issue addressed than nothing addressed at all.
>Which brings me to my other favorite thing about sorcery in today's Gemstone: After lever 40, I no longer have to worry about frying my head using my own mana. No, I get to cast a 6 mana spell to stun them two or three times before I hit them, then a 15 mana spell to lower their TD to a point where it only takes me either three casts of a 19 mana spell or around 20 casts of a 5 mana spell to kill. Of course, that's assuming that something a higher level then I am doesn't wander in in the meantime, meaning I have to cast between 1 and 4 casts of a 20 mana spell to kill THAT with no chance of being able to search it afterwards before going back to the critter I wanted to kill.... but alas, my mana's gone and I just used the last charge in my last wand.
This is a completely separate, but legit issue. Why our supposed 'mid-level' hunting spell (705) turned out to have this niche role as something you should cast on stunned or non-corporeal critters, I can't explain, but I think the source of the problem you mention is mostly due to 702 pretty weak (lore enhancement might fix this) and our 'next level' hunting spell not being up to the task. It's often a worse option than 702 thanks to the stupid niche it was given. Either 705 needs to lose the restrictions and truly be a good, mid-level hunting spell or keep it as it is and make 702 get stronger as we level/train in some manner. After a certain point, we do become very powerful hunters with a wide array of options, which is great. It just takes way too long to reach that plateau.
This is a completely separate, but legit issue. Why our supposed 'mid-level' hunting spell (705) turned out to have this niche role as something you should cast on stunned or non-corporeal critters, I can't explain, but I think the source of the problem you mention is mostly due to 702 pretty weak (lore enhancement might fix this) and our 'next level' hunting spell not being up to the task. It's often a worse option than 702 thanks to the stupid niche it was given. Either 705 needs to lose the restrictions and truly be a good, mid-level hunting spell or keep it as it is and make 702 get stronger as we level/train in some manner. After a certain point, we do become very powerful hunters with a wide array of options, which is great. It just takes way too long to reach that plateau.
>Why our supposed 'mid-level' hunting spell (705) turned out to have this niche role as something you should cast on stunned or non-corporeal critters, I can't explain
The problem with 705 is it has no lore implementation whatsoever. Why? I cannot fathom, but it is only one of two direct damage spells cast by pures that lacks a lore implementation, the other of course is 702.
An additional suggestion Estild, since the issue of group cross-realms travel has always been iffy, I had an idea which might make it very sorcery-rpish, but also have an increased cost.
Concept here:
[Sorcerous Sorcerer's Room]
Its exactly what it sounds like.
You also see some halfling wizard begging a ride to Teras and a shadowy grey aishan.
Obvious exits: None
>draw summoning circle
Flavor text
>draw pattern X
Flavor text for Teras pattern
>tell aishan to go circle
Your shadowy grey aishan enters your summoning circle.
>sacrifice aishan
You gaze at a shadowy grey aishan and exert your control over it, immobilizing it!
Channeling its chaotic energies, you sap the lifeforce from a shadowy grey aishan and incorporate it into your own.
You infuse your summoning circle with energy from shien'tyr, strengthening it!
RT: 10
>prep 740
>cast circle
Flavor text, flavor text: a shadowy black rift!
So basically, with sufficient training in Demonology, you can sacrifice a minor demon to strengthen an inter-realm rift, which would allow up to X number of people to follow, depending on your training level. Failure rate is independently measured, but there are now 3 Demonology checks: 1 to summon a demon, 1 for the success rate, and 1 for how many people can follow.
Just something to ponder. Also, unique color messaging for Lorae'tyr and Grik'tyr as well! hazy yellow rift, rusty red rift?
Concept here:
[Sorcerous Sorcerer's Room]
Its exactly what it sounds like.
You also see some halfling wizard begging a ride to Teras and a shadowy grey aishan.
Obvious exits: None
>draw summoning circle
Flavor text
>draw pattern X
Flavor text for Teras pattern
>tell aishan to go circle
Your shadowy grey aishan enters your summoning circle.
>sacrifice aishan
You gaze at a shadowy grey aishan and exert your control over it, immobilizing it!
Channeling its chaotic energies, you sap the lifeforce from a shadowy grey aishan and incorporate it into your own.
You infuse your summoning circle with energy from shien'tyr, strengthening it!
RT: 10
>prep 740
>cast circle
Flavor text, flavor text: a shadowy black rift!
So basically, with sufficient training in Demonology, you can sacrifice a minor demon to strengthen an inter-realm rift, which would allow up to X number of people to follow, depending on your training level. Failure rate is independently measured, but there are now 3 Demonology checks: 1 to summon a demon, 1 for the success rate, and 1 for how many people can follow.
Just something to ponder. Also, unique color messaging for Lorae'tyr and Grik'tyr as well! hazy yellow rift, rusty red rift?
>>If you're looking for a change to Planar Shift that would be popular, then consider allowing it to open a portal to a persistent extra-planar storage space. That would help address the issue of components taking up locker space and would be a jaw dropping unique ability.
This immediately brought to mind Nakor's sack with the permanent rift inside to the stash of oranges in the Feist books.
I'll just sum up my thoughts.
1. Use cheap chalk for intrarealm solo, intrarealm group, interrealm solo.
2. Use expensive chalk just for interrealm group.
3. Remove restrictions around areas, should be able to to any area from any area, other than ones that really break the game, like jails, private merchant rooms, four winds, etc. But certainly any hunting area, any room where creatures spawn or that you can walk to in the normal course of play, you should be able to rift in and out of there.
4. Make balefire hit antimagic things.
>The problem with 705 is it has no lore implementation whatsoever. Why? I cannot fathom, but it is only one of two direct damage spells cast by pures that lacks a lore implementation, the other of course is 702.
The above statement should be edited to say Sorcerer direct damage spells. Because off the top of my head 904 (minor acid) is indeed a direct damage spell with no lore implementation.
-Anonymous
The above statement should be edited to say Sorcerer direct damage spells. Because off the top of my head 904 (minor acid) is indeed a direct damage spell with no lore implementation.
-Anonymous
