Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Im definitely a newer sorcerer, so I am curious how/when/why empaths became these amazing killers. What is the thought process here? It is maddening to me that I regularly hunt with an empath that waits for me to dink with 702/705/708 (bandits for instance - cant really 717/718/719/720) and then fires the kill shot. I mean what is the logic here? They are like the doctors of Elanthia right? So all of their time and spiritual activity is based on learning the body and how to repair it. I mean the CIA doesnt hire doctors to become their top assassins right? Learning to heal does not make you an effective killer. Ive not heard the arguement that because sorcerers know how to tear a body apart they somehow are the best healers in the land? Flame away, but what the hell. I cant really even think about bards...
<<Im definitely a newer sorcerer, so I am curious how/when/why empaths became these amazing killers. What is the thought process here? It is maddening to me that I regularly hunt with an empath that waits for me to dink with 702/705/708 (bandits for instance - cant really 717/718/719/720) and then fires the kill shot. I mean what is the logic here? They are like the doctors of Elanthia right? So all of their time and spiritual activity is based on learning the body and how to repair it. I mean the CIA doesnt hire doctors to become their top assassins right? Learning to heal does not make you an effective killer. Ive not heard the arguement that because sorcerers know how to tear a body apart they somehow are the best healers in the land? Flame away, but what the hell. I cant really even think about bards...
I'm definitely not the guru for empaths, or sorcerers, but I'd argue that knowing about the body definitely WOULD make you a better killer in general. And by "better killer" I don't mean it as "better than sorcerers". Take Jack the Ripper, for example. It is commonly theorized by many professionals that the killer was in fact a surgeon or had a vast knowledge of the human body; or a butcher's knowledge.
Although, this is the topic for sorcerers and not empaths. So the discussion would be best continued over in the empath topic.
~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er
I'm definitely not the guru for empaths, or sorcerers, but I'd argue that knowing about the body definitely WOULD make you a better killer in general. And by "better killer" I don't mean it as "better than sorcerers". Take Jack the Ripper, for example. It is commonly theorized by many professionals that the killer was in fact a surgeon or had a vast knowledge of the human body; or a butcher's knowledge.
Although, this is the topic for sorcerers and not empaths. So the discussion would be best continued over in the empath topic.
~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er
I'd say that because of the magic of empaths, they would make good killers. They don't just have knowledge of the body, but they have the ability to manipulate the body's natural processes on a magical level. This would make them pretty intense killers.
Then, on the other hand, you have the pendulum effect. 12 years ago, Empaths had some of the worst hunting abilities in the game as pures. This was deemed unacceptable (and rightly so), and have continually recieved amazing buffs and attack spells since. This has yet to be curtailed, but it was stated in this very thread that Bone Shatter is considered "too good" in comparison to Wither at high levels.
You also have to remember that Bone Shatter can't hit non-corp and non-bone targets. So we have a bit of an advantage in the non-living department.
That said, we are supposed to be masters of destruction, the professional penalty we pay for this mastery is a lack of utility spells. Unfortunately, other classes get MORE destruction potential, and plenty of utility spells. I would say question not the Empath's ability to kill, but our lack of one.
Sorcerer's were nerfed over a decade ago because we were too strong compared to the other pures. Since then, the other pures have gotten significantly stronger. I say we undo some of the nerfs. Bring back old MD/DC.
Then, on the other hand, you have the pendulum effect. 12 years ago, Empaths had some of the worst hunting abilities in the game as pures. This was deemed unacceptable (and rightly so), and have continually recieved amazing buffs and attack spells since. This has yet to be curtailed, but it was stated in this very thread that Bone Shatter is considered "too good" in comparison to Wither at high levels.
You also have to remember that Bone Shatter can't hit non-corp and non-bone targets. So we have a bit of an advantage in the non-living department.
That said, we are supposed to be masters of destruction, the professional penalty we pay for this mastery is a lack of utility spells. Unfortunately, other classes get MORE destruction potential, and plenty of utility spells. I would say question not the Empath's ability to kill, but our lack of one.
Sorcerer's were nerfed over a decade ago because we were too strong compared to the other pures. Since then, the other pures have gotten significantly stronger. I say we undo some of the nerfs. Bring back old MD/DC.
Simutronics has a bad habit of swirving and overcorrecting to various situations. See empaths. In this way they're actually very similar to politicians.
The sad part is they were supposed to have been given a choice, be a healer or a hunter, but that hasn't happened, obviously. My empath does both with equal skill.
Not trying to beat a dead horse but Im also curious about the theory behind bards. In every fantasy setting Ive known, they are a jack of all trades, decent at everything but master of nothing. How did they become super killers with their singing? Arent they supposed to entertain us in the Inn, steal a few coins, chase the ladies around, dabble in some magic, etc? Ive just never seen a fantasy environment where they were so ridiculously powerful and wondering if that was intended? If so what is the thinking?
"Arent they supposed to entertain us in the Inn, steal a few coins, chase the ladies around, dabble in some magic, etc?" -- CereficeJ
In GemStone, it is not in fact possible to gain levels doing any of those things. Hence their greater reliance on the combat side of things.
Simutronics made a mistake when designing Semis, and failed to take the opportunity to correct it when they deICEd and then again at the GS4 conversion.
The semi professions should have been designed as "single-plus-a-bit" in their weapon skill, and make up the deficiency (versus the the purely Physical weapon swingers) with their spells.
In the same manner that the pure professions should have been designed as "nearly singled" in weapon skill, and make up deficiencies with spells.
The pure spellcaster who was fully singled in their chosen weapon should have been as much a mutant path as the semi who was fully doubled, and both of them should have come at the (sizable) cost of magical skills.
It didn't happen that way.
.
So instead of the always-double-training physical swinging professions setting the standard of weapon AS and everyone else chasing that as the goal with their spells to make up the lack...
...they became largely marginalized and ineffective until the very late 1990s [when DF Redux was introduced] and then into the 2000s [when the CMan list came out].
In GemStone, it is not in fact possible to gain levels doing any of those things. Hence their greater reliance on the combat side of things.
Simutronics made a mistake when designing Semis, and failed to take the opportunity to correct it when they deICEd and then again at the GS4 conversion.
The semi professions should have been designed as "single-plus-a-bit" in their weapon skill, and make up the deficiency (versus the the purely Physical weapon swingers) with their spells.
In the same manner that the pure professions should have been designed as "nearly singled" in weapon skill, and make up deficiencies with spells.
The pure spellcaster who was fully singled in their chosen weapon should have been as much a mutant path as the semi who was fully doubled, and both of them should have come at the (sizable) cost of magical skills.
It didn't happen that way.
.
So instead of the always-double-training physical swinging professions setting the standard of weapon AS and everyone else chasing that as the goal with their spells to make up the lack...
...they became largely marginalized and ineffective until the very late 1990s [when DF Redux was introduced] and then into the 2000s [when the CMan list came out].
>>I would say question not the Empath's ability to kill, but our lack of one.<<
This is more or less the correct attitude. Of the 4 pure casting professions, I'd put sorcerers at the bottom of the list as far as practical hunting ability. My empath is a stone killer, my warmage has no peer when hunting, my cleric sneezes and critters get vaporized.
One thing is that, IMO, sorcerers have too many hunting/damage spells! I know that sounds silly, but they could lose a hunting spell or two and get some better utility spells instead. And drop all those silly spell component requirements! And make demons able to actually do some damage to foes. Animates can attack, why not demons?
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
This is more or less the correct attitude. Of the 4 pure casting professions, I'd put sorcerers at the bottom of the list as far as practical hunting ability. My empath is a stone killer, my warmage has no peer when hunting, my cleric sneezes and critters get vaporized.
One thing is that, IMO, sorcerers have too many hunting/damage spells! I know that sounds silly, but they could lose a hunting spell or two and get some better utility spells instead. And drop all those silly spell component requirements! And make demons able to actually do some damage to foes. Animates can attack, why not demons?
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
I was just thinking back to when I very first started and sorcerers were so weak and so hard to level no one played them much. Of course if you stuck to it and grew your character eventually you became something to be completely feared. That is where I miss what in my mind sorcery is supposed to be about. Make it take 4x longer for me to reach level 10, punish me in every way...eliminate people who want an easy path completely. Make my early spells a joke. When I survive and eventually make it through, reward me with power that is devastating. I want children to hide when they see us walk down a street...mothers to lock the doors. I want there to be few who could actually stand the pain and frustration to earn that kind of power. Anyway - in my head, that is what originally was a sorcerer. Now we just arent amazing at the one thing we are supposed to own.
