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With 735 now being ensorcell we have, as I see it, two options for a mass target CS spell. 750 and 719, perhaps both could be used.
So, to refresh everyone's mind, here is my Chain Reaction DC (719) proposal:
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/20/chain-reaction-dc/
Assume Demon (750)
The caster enters a prone state, semi-protected in a summoning circle, while gaining complete control, ability, and tricks of a summoned demon. For example, a sorcerer may summon (summons are automatically like level) a demon with the ability to swing a weapon with an AS equal to the sorcerer's CS (helps in those semi-rare situations when warding is impossible or extremely unlikely but lacking the physical attack would further expand a sorcerers hybrid status.) plus we summon demons. my vote for 750 goes anywhere but another warding spell (unless it is so cool it blows my mind like galager attacking a melon with a hammer)
I would go with some closer to Assume Demon. At least something that was other than a pure combat spell. Assume Demon, Summon Major Demon, Animate Self, Lichform, Ghost of the Sorcerer. . . I would like to see something that was playing with the life/death binary, particularly since I don't particularly enjoy dying, and/or departing. . . .
I like the Assume Demon idea in that it would allow us the chance to experience the role of a square and would really make for some strange RP.
So umm the mix of RP, combat utility, and general strangeness. . . tis difficult. . .
Of course chain reaction sounds great but i would rather see it as an add-on to DC as it is now. I love DC and of course would love to see it improved. I'm not sure about devoting 750 to it is the answer though.
I like the Assume Demon idea in that it would allow us the chance to experience the role of a square and would really make for some strange RP.
So umm the mix of RP, combat utility, and general strangeness. . . tis difficult. . .
Of course chain reaction sounds great but i would rather see it as an add-on to DC as it is now. I love DC and of course would love to see it improved. I'm not sure about devoting 750 to it is the answer though.
Funny, I was just thinking about starting a DC thread. This spell just isn't powerful enough, and it's a gap that I have felt when hunting ever since it was nerfed into the ground. When a dangerous, pure-caster mob walks into the room while I'm fighting, I find myself groping for what I should do to quickly incapacitate it. I don't care much about mana efficiency, I want to solve this problem before I get overwhelmed. I often resort to FI in such a scenario, but I don't like doing so because it often doesn't produce a significant stun on a like-leveled, uninjured monster and it leaves no loot. I certainly rarely use DC, as it just...isn't dangerous in most circumstances. This gap has been partly filled by balefire, but I feel like sorcerers should have a powerful warding attack.
I mean, really, this has all been said. I don't think anyone is coming from a pre-nerf DC perspective anymore, or from a selfish sorcerer perspective. I think DC really is a ridiculously underpowered spell. It needs a buff. I dropped it on a stone giant (semi) today with a 225 endroll and I got a one round stun and less damage than a really good 702 hit, and this is with 7 ranks of each elemental lore mind you. Pathetic is a word that springs to mind...
So, basically I'm seconding Virilneus' idea. I think it's interesting and appropriate, but I would suggest that DC needs a significant increase in the power of its elemental crits. As it stands, it's a tool that probably doesn't get used heavily until well into the 80s (and I certainly invite older sorcerers to comment on the spell as well, from their perspective). Through my 50s, in which I hunted every like leveled hunting ground in the game, I never found it to be a realistic hunting tool. Against a citadel herald for example, it was far more effective to hit it with a shot of balefire.
The spell needs work. Let's get 'er done.
Kilshaar
I mean, really, this has all been said. I don't think anyone is coming from a pre-nerf DC perspective anymore, or from a selfish sorcerer perspective. I think DC really is a ridiculously underpowered spell. It needs a buff. I dropped it on a stone giant (semi) today with a 225 endroll and I got a one round stun and less damage than a really good 702 hit, and this is with 7 ranks of each elemental lore mind you. Pathetic is a word that springs to mind...
So, basically I'm seconding Virilneus' idea. I think it's interesting and appropriate, but I would suggest that DC needs a significant increase in the power of its elemental crits. As it stands, it's a tool that probably doesn't get used heavily until well into the 80s (and I certainly invite older sorcerers to comment on the spell as well, from their perspective). Through my 50s, in which I hunted every like leveled hunting ground in the game, I never found it to be a realistic hunting tool. Against a citadel herald for example, it was far more effective to hit it with a shot of balefire.
The spell needs work. Let's get 'er done.
Kilshaar
Not that it matters, because something that survives a DC is unlikely to cast much, but one way to make the initial attack stronger, rather than just more oomph (which could also be done) is perhaps combine it with a 703 like effect. We're turning their own mana against them, whatever mana left might be too corrupted or chaotic to be used for spell casting for some amount of soft RT. Eh?
So, if your example of killing a magical critter, even if the initial damage is underwhelming because you rolled poorly, at least you can be assured of not facing a counter attack.
>So, if your example of killing a magical critter, even if the initial damage is underwhelming because you rolled poorly, at least you can be assured of not facing a counter attack.
In theory, I like this, but we already have a spell that does that and with a TD pushdown to boot. I personally do not advocate 'side-grading' 719. The two things that are in glaring omission for the sorcerer spell list are a powerful focused warding spell and a mass warding spell. DC should fulfill one or both of these, and it currently (in my opinion), fulfills neither. It needs more damage, end of story, be it directly or through lore training. Another idea I just had might be to add another flare to DC based on your sorcerer lore. A sort of 'phase' or void crit for demonlogy and a like...badness rotting crit for necromancy.
Kilshaar
In theory, I like this, but we already have a spell that does that and with a TD pushdown to boot. I personally do not advocate 'side-grading' 719. The two things that are in glaring omission for the sorcerer spell list are a powerful focused warding spell and a mass warding spell. DC should fulfill one or both of these, and it currently (in my opinion), fulfills neither. It needs more damage, end of story, be it directly or through lore training. Another idea I just had might be to add another flare to DC based on your sorcerer lore. A sort of 'phase' or void crit for demonlogy and a like...badness rotting crit for necromancy.
Kilshaar
It'd be nice if we could do straight non-crit damage based off of our Necro or Demonology lore. Think of it like Fervent Reproach where it does not cause a wound, nor even stuns. Just flat damage. The kicker? Have it ONLY be powered by how much mana you would have gotten back from the cast of DC. You also need to CHANNEL the spell, not cast, to activate the additional damage so you get the 3 seconds of hard RT. This would give incentive to train in Mana Controls in addition to lores to maximize your potential damage.
Let me expound on that a little bit. I'm not sure if just adding 2 more cycles, for 6 total, would be doable, without a requirement.
New proposal.
1. Implement all the features of my previously mentioned chain reaction DC idea.
2. Add new flare types for necromancy and demonology
3. Add a new roll calculation, influenced by mana control training whether the sorcerer be 1x, 2x, 3x, or 4x, don't just look at smc and emc, also look at mmc if a sorcerer trains in it for some reason, let this roll decide the probability of getting the "bonus cycles" not unlike the extra damage cycles possible with immolation. Make it a training requirement vs target level to be fair I think. Aim for say 2x mana control training giving you 50% for a 5th cycle, 25% for a 6th. Increase it by some seed to approximate getting 25% increase for each further 1x in mana control. So at 4x in mana control you've got 100% for a 5th cycle and 75% for a 6th. And if you went further getting (theoretically, mmc) you could get to 100% for both. Which would be the 5th and which the 6th? Let it be random, either necro or demon, randomly chosen each time.
As an aside, I know many many game systems look at only two mana controls, when three exist, and I think this is poor game design. It is hard to say you want to encourage player training diversity when you don't account for it in game formulas. As unlikely as it'd be for someone to train in a third mana control type, mechanical formulas should be open to the possibility.
4. Optional further gravy: If demon flares, and you have an active demon in the room, give it a power boost, or, if we're doing chain reaction, give it a mana efficiency boost (hidden directly, but resulting in greater/more jumps to other critters in the room). Do the same if you have an active animate in the room and necro flares, and double it up if you have both and both flare. This would encourage further use of these largely underused spells.
Maybe I was in the perfect hunting ground for it, but I honestly am not sure how much support there will be for adding MORE to the spell of Dark Catalyst. The spell itself is quite good in what it is (now) designed to do: Kill pures. I will admit the lores are poorly implemented, but honestly for a very low endroll you receive a large amount of damage assuming your casting at a target who regularly cast spells.
It does suck that sorcerers don't have a mass damage CS based spell, but with the 735 slot gone, it doesn't leave us too much of a slot for one. Pimping out DC doesn't seem like an easy sell. We also lack an effective Warding crit-based damager outside of Disintegrate that offers a High mana high reward for non-pure creatures. The issue is that there ARE such spells in the Elemental circle.
It seems like what would be useful is if 750 were to allow us to augment our ability to use our secondary means of attack, such as 409/415 to greater effect. Not trying to tack on more abilities to an already fairly powerful spell.
Just my thought on the matter, though.
It does suck that sorcerers don't have a mass damage CS based spell, but with the 735 slot gone, it doesn't leave us too much of a slot for one. Pimping out DC doesn't seem like an easy sell. We also lack an effective Warding crit-based damager outside of Disintegrate that offers a High mana high reward for non-pure creatures. The issue is that there ARE such spells in the Elemental circle.
It seems like what would be useful is if 750 were to allow us to augment our ability to use our secondary means of attack, such as 409/415 to greater effect. Not trying to tack on more abilities to an already fairly powerful spell.
Just my thought on the matter, though.
Let me then sum what where I'd like to see our circle go, with priorities, 1 being low, 5 high
702 - needs lore (maybe using mana controls) implementation like most other spells, 4
705 - needs lore implementation like most other spells 4
705 - focused bolt version (not ball spell, bolt spell) similar to tonis bolt, using old slate wand crits and messaging (yum), higher crit/lower damage (reverse of warding version) think laserbeam, 3
710 - SHIFT ability allowing tempests to move from critter to critter on command, 1
713 - ability to hit antimagic things if your demon is present in the room. Gonna keep asking for it because it'd be spiffy, you can IC justify it as extraplanar demonic magic, and it'd be spiffy, 2
719 - chain reaction, plus addition of two more damage cycles based on necro & demon, 5
725 - demon TEACH ability (enhancives breaking normal enhancive cap for having demon present, 50% of which is shared with group members) coupled with lesser demons requiring high lore thresholds (200, 250, 300, 350, 400) to summon (thus requiring grouped up sorcerers to do it). 5
730 - better micromanagement of animates tell animate attack [physical|special|magical (spell#)], tell animate magic (spell#). 2
730 - ability to reanimate previous animate, at reduced cost (only crystals/only gem) or at same cost as original, just the ability to do so, 3
740 - ability to teleport into the rift (heart room) from anywhere in the game using short range chalk. Ability to teleport to anywhere in the game from the rift heart room using short range chalk, Nifty, makes sense IC, 1
750 - something as nifty as 1150 and 350, 3
The list has gotten shorter from a few years ago, we're making progress. Get this list done though, and I'd say we're good.
Either 702 or 705 does need some sort of lore-based damage tie in. This is something Sorcerers have lacked since lores inception. 705 as a bolt spell I personally wouldn't qualify as a need, more like a nifty feature.
710 - I agree with this upgrade, but would switch it from the low end to the high end in terms of priority. I'd like to see this open up a new strategy of hunting where you juggle (figuratively) the Maelstrom as you hunt.
713 - Sure.
719 - I'd like to see the lore design revisted, but like I said, thinking on it, i'm not sold on a Mass DD form of this spell.
725 - No comment on this one.
730 - I'd like for a way to directly add to an animate's BCS level. Perhaps with lore training (or whatever) you automatically update it towards/to the top of its range, or give it flat bonuses to AS/CS/Attack speed/ etc. I'd also like to see a large degree of skill begin to chip away at component requirements.
740 - Sure
750 - Seems like the next priority BEHIND adding lore-based damage tie-ins to 702 and/or 705.
710 - I agree with this upgrade, but would switch it from the low end to the high end in terms of priority. I'd like to see this open up a new strategy of hunting where you juggle (figuratively) the Maelstrom as you hunt.
713 - Sure.
719 - I'd like to see the lore design revisted, but like I said, thinking on it, i'm not sold on a Mass DD form of this spell.
725 - No comment on this one.
730 - I'd like for a way to directly add to an animate's BCS level. Perhaps with lore training (or whatever) you automatically update it towards/to the top of its range, or give it flat bonuses to AS/CS/Attack speed/ etc. I'd also like to see a large degree of skill begin to chip away at component requirements.
740 - Sure
750 - Seems like the next priority BEHIND adding lore-based damage tie-ins to 702 and/or 705.
>no suggestion for disease on there?
Many..many ideas for its improvement have been made. What would be the better question is what role should the spell fill?
We do need a High(er) cost/reward crit-based damager for non-pures. We do also need a Mass CS damager. As long as it filled one of those two roles I don't really care what it looks like.
Many..many ideas for its improvement have been made. What would be the better question is what role should the spell fill?
We do need a High(er) cost/reward crit-based damager for non-pures. We do also need a Mass CS damager. As long as it filled one of those two roles I don't really care what it looks like.
I have no ideas for disease other than getting rid of it (or making it a curse).
Contagion lacks usefulness since the long ago hunting experience change requiring you to be in the area.
Creating a direct damage spell within a disease concept has always seemed cheesy to me, why not can the concept and make a better one?
And, quite frankly, if the rest of my list was done, I could accept disease for what it is, I think. If I had all these other things I don't know if I'd need a better spell for 716.
I'd like to see Disease, if not outright scrapped, turned into something defensive in nature. Sorcerers infect themselves with a terrible, noxious disease that presents itself whenever our blood is spilled. Necro lore increases the virulence. Think Festering Taints. You hit them and cut them, their blood flies everywhere and causes havok. As a bonus you could also have a % chance that the spell's necrotic energy would seep into your existing magic as you cast, causing disease like effects in your target. Obviously nothing major, depending on how well the spell works defensively, but enough to be useful as a DoT and disabler when it goes off and you don't outright kill your target.
Not a bad idea. Turn yourself into a leper, let critters who touch you become infected. Why require blood to be spilled? Some critter puts you in a CMAN bearhug let pustules erupt all over their body. Not a bad idea.
Of course, should the sorcerer die, the rotting body would be quite the disease vector. Kind of getting a last bit of revenge.
>Not a bad idea. Turn yourself into a leper, let critters who touch you become infected. Why require blood to be spilled? Some critter puts you in a CMAN bearhug let pustules erupt all over their body. Not a bad idea.
I agree any grapple-based CMANs should definitely have a high chance for a warding-based infection. Bearhug, Garrotte, Crowd Press, etc.
>Of course, should the sorcerer die, the rotting body would be quite the disease vector. Kind of getting a last bit of revenge.
Perhaps as a downside it should reduce the amount of time we have before our bodies decay. Seems only fair. Or it could be balanced by outright blocking White Flasks. Only Sorcerer salts or powerful casts of 305 can overcome the disease. It is always good to build in a few penalties to spells to justify them having powerful features.
I agree any grapple-based CMANs should definitely have a high chance for a warding-based infection. Bearhug, Garrotte, Crowd Press, etc.
>Of course, should the sorcerer die, the rotting body would be quite the disease vector. Kind of getting a last bit of revenge.
Perhaps as a downside it should reduce the amount of time we have before our bodies decay. Seems only fair. Or it could be balanced by outright blocking White Flasks. Only Sorcerer salts or powerful casts of 305 can overcome the disease. It is always good to build in a few penalties to spells to justify them having powerful features.
for me (using Aspen's list as a starting point)
702 - needs demon lore added to it (flat damage added), i like Aspen's mana controls. perhaps have mana control per level lower the threshold for higher hidden damage.
705 - needs lore implementation like most other spells. I would like to see 705 damage added. Necro lore to 1) lower threshold for higher damages (currently need very high end rolls to make this worth using over 702) 2) add cycle of damage at set thresholds of necro lore training. Perhaps make this a crit killer? I know 705 can insta kill but i dont remember the last time iv actually had the spell do that.
705 - focused bolt version (not ball spell, bolt spell)I 100% support this idea. A lower level bolt spell would be a great addition and 705 is perfect for it.
710 - SHIFT ability allowing tempests to move from critter to critter on command, 1. In addition there needs to be a way to speed up the time it takes to build up.
713 - ability to hit antimagic things if your demon is present in the room. Gonna keep asking for it because it'd be spiffy, you can IC justify it as extraplanar demonic magic, and it'd be spiffy, 2
716 - Mass CS spell, uses TD pushdown. this wouldnt be a damage spell, it would be a debilitation spell against the enemy. Provide a debuff that gets worse over time. Other suggestion for 716 is make it a defensive spell like how 704 was suppose to provide.
719 - chain reaction, plus addition of two more damage cycles based on necro & demon, 5
725 - demon TEACH ability (enhancives breaking normal enhancive cap for having demon present, 50% of which is shared with group members) coupled with lesser demons requiring high lore thresholds (200, 250, 300, 350, 400) to summon (thus requiring grouped up sorcerers to do it). 5. Let me prep cast to renew the spell. Allow demons in all town, its freaking annoying.
730 - better micromanagement of animates tell animate attack [physical|special|magical (spell#)], tell animate magic (spell#).
730 - ability to reanimate previous animate, at reduced cost (only crystals/only gem) or at same cost as original, just the ability to do so. same as 725, allow a sorcerer to prep/cast to refresh duration ( assume because of how component happy the Devs got with the spells before 735, you either cannot refresh 730 or if you can it costs components, i flat dont use the spell).
740 - ability to teleport into the rift (heart room) from anywhere in the game using short range chalk. Ability to teleport to anywhere in the game from the rift heart room using short range chalk, Nifty, makes sense IC, 1
750 - For 750 there are two options that i would support. option 1 would be a mass damaging CS spell. It would be the highest level attack spell in the game. there was once a time where sorcerers were known as the people who could just kill things really really really really good, a mass CS spell in this slot would be a nice reminder of that. the messaging of the spell could be base on what lore you have, but overall it would damage the same. the second option would be a very powerful short duration buff. either option would require sorcerer lore. Demon lore could give you Demon Form and necro lore could be Lich Form. while in that form you are greatly powered up. perhaps spells act slightly different (more powerful) in addition to other things.
Player of Malisai
702 - needs demon lore added to it (flat damage added), i like Aspen's mana controls. perhaps have mana control per level lower the threshold for higher hidden damage.
705 - needs lore implementation like most other spells. I would like to see 705 damage added. Necro lore to 1) lower threshold for higher damages (currently need very high end rolls to make this worth using over 702) 2) add cycle of damage at set thresholds of necro lore training. Perhaps make this a crit killer? I know 705 can insta kill but i dont remember the last time iv actually had the spell do that.
705 - focused bolt version (not ball spell, bolt spell)I 100% support this idea. A lower level bolt spell would be a great addition and 705 is perfect for it.
710 - SHIFT ability allowing tempests to move from critter to critter on command, 1. In addition there needs to be a way to speed up the time it takes to build up.
713 - ability to hit antimagic things if your demon is present in the room. Gonna keep asking for it because it'd be spiffy, you can IC justify it as extraplanar demonic magic, and it'd be spiffy, 2
716 - Mass CS spell, uses TD pushdown. this wouldnt be a damage spell, it would be a debilitation spell against the enemy. Provide a debuff that gets worse over time. Other suggestion for 716 is make it a defensive spell like how 704 was suppose to provide.
719 - chain reaction, plus addition of two more damage cycles based on necro & demon, 5
725 - demon TEACH ability (enhancives breaking normal enhancive cap for having demon present, 50% of which is shared with group members) coupled with lesser demons requiring high lore thresholds (200, 250, 300, 350, 400) to summon (thus requiring grouped up sorcerers to do it). 5. Let me prep cast to renew the spell. Allow demons in all town, its freaking annoying.
730 - better micromanagement of animates tell animate attack [physical|special|magical (spell#)], tell animate magic (spell#).
730 - ability to reanimate previous animate, at reduced cost (only crystals/only gem) or at same cost as original, just the ability to do so. same as 725, allow a sorcerer to prep/cast to refresh duration ( assume because of how component happy the Devs got with the spells before 735, you either cannot refresh 730 or if you can it costs components, i flat dont use the spell).
740 - ability to teleport into the rift (heart room) from anywhere in the game using short range chalk. Ability to teleport to anywhere in the game from the rift heart room using short range chalk, Nifty, makes sense IC, 1
750 - For 750 there are two options that i would support. option 1 would be a mass damaging CS spell. It would be the highest level attack spell in the game. there was once a time where sorcerers were known as the people who could just kill things really really really really good, a mass CS spell in this slot would be a nice reminder of that. the messaging of the spell could be base on what lore you have, but overall it would damage the same. the second option would be a very powerful short duration buff. either option would require sorcerer lore. Demon lore could give you Demon Form and necro lore could be Lich Form. while in that form you are greatly powered up. perhaps spells act slightly different (more powerful) in addition to other things.
Player of Malisai
>Maybe I was in the perfect hunting ground for it, but I honestly am not sure how much support there will be for adding MORE to the spell of Dark Catalyst. The spell itself is quite good in what it is (now) designed to do: Kill pures. I will admit the lores are poorly implemented, but honestly for a very low endroll you receive a large amount of damage assuming your casting at a target who regularly cast spells.
This really just isn't my experience with DC. It certainly gets random death crits sometimes, but all too often I'll get a good endroll on a pure casting creature and get like a 1 round stun out of it, and a total of less than 100 damage. Consider that: an open hand neutral+ stance channeled 702 with a 150 endroll will probably average what...70? 80? damage total, and a rank 3+ wound? I mean, I'd have to break out the tables, but I think that's pretty accurate (let's be honest, we've all seen thousands of 702 results). 719 should never, under any circumstances do anything less than blow 702 out of the water versus a pure with the same endroll. Currently, it's like a little bit of damage with a 1 in 5 shot at a death crit.
Evarin, care to list the critters you have in mind? I'm curioso.
Kilshaar
This really just isn't my experience with DC. It certainly gets random death crits sometimes, but all too often I'll get a good endroll on a pure casting creature and get like a 1 round stun out of it, and a total of less than 100 damage. Consider that: an open hand neutral+ stance channeled 702 with a 150 endroll will probably average what...70? 80? damage total, and a rank 3+ wound? I mean, I'd have to break out the tables, but I think that's pretty accurate (let's be honest, we've all seen thousands of 702 results). 719 should never, under any circumstances do anything less than blow 702 out of the water versus a pure with the same endroll. Currently, it's like a little bit of damage with a 1 in 5 shot at a death crit.
Evarin, care to list the critters you have in mind? I'm curioso.
Kilshaar
Creatures that cast spells. Non-magical creatures do not have any mana to catalyze, so the spell performs poorly. One shot of DC should drop Ithzir Initiates, Heralds, and Adepts without issue. Ithzir Seers are a bit more hardy, but you'll also get a crit kill a good majority of the time, or a quick 702/705 to finish them off.
This isn't just for high level hunting, though the cost of the spell alone precludes it from use at too low of a level. I hunted Dogmatists in skull temple without any problems. Black Forest Orgres that cast. Shrickhen, Dhu Gholaras, etc.
You don't go casting this spell at an Ithzir Janissary, Muscular Supplicant, or Triton Scout.
This isn't just for high level hunting, though the cost of the spell alone precludes it from use at too low of a level. I hunted Dogmatists in skull temple without any problems. Black Forest Orgres that cast. Shrickhen, Dhu Gholaras, etc.
You don't go casting this spell at an Ithzir Janissary, Muscular Supplicant, or Triton Scout.
As with Evarin I use DC everyday as it is with magic using creatures and this is at lower level. It just requires massive wracking. . . Of course I only touch 702 and 705 to finish off creatures, its just too boring for Nou otherwise. I see death crits almost always instantaneously with the spell and routine returns between 4 and 7 mana, which alleviates the mana pain.
Being the train I am, I have no experience with any of those creatures save black forest ogres, which I hunted for say 2 or 3 trains. I found DC to be totally useless there for mana efficiency reasons, but I wasn't a tripler at the time so perhaps that had a role to play.
It sounds like perhaps DC is "working as intended", provided it's not envisioned as terribly useful before level 70ish. I personally think that's pretty silly since, even today, most people never play to level 70. It's taken me over 15 years to get to 60!
Anyhoo thanks for the input.
Kilshaar
It sounds like perhaps DC is "working as intended", provided it's not envisioned as terribly useful before level 70ish. I personally think that's pretty silly since, even today, most people never play to level 70. It's taken me over 15 years to get to 60!
Anyhoo thanks for the input.
Kilshaar
I don't think Catts on the PC is scripting heavily (but I could be mistaken). I think it is a combination of XXX and RPAs coupled with obsessive playing.
On topic: It would be AWESOME to be able to phase corporeal creatures to move them into the max vulnerability category for Dark Catalyst. It wouldn't be overpowered either, as it would be 2 separate casts totalling 23 mana.
On topic: It would be AWESOME to be able to phase corporeal creatures to move them into the max vulnerability category for Dark Catalyst. It wouldn't be overpowered either, as it would be 2 separate casts totalling 23 mana.
While I think the defensive suggestion for DC is "neat" and "sorcerous" I'm not sure it's at all necessary. We don't need another semi-useful defensive/debilitating spell. What we need is a high end CS spell to do damage with that works on non-casters. I'm also going to have to disagree with V on some of his rankings for sorcerer needs. The top three needs for sorcerers right now:
1. Lores/mana control tied to 702
2. Lores tied to 705
3. High level attack spell
4. Lores design makes lores a requirement on spells instead of a bonus and doesn't allow for effectively mixing lores.
All the bells and whistles are great. Finally having a utility spells for sorcerers is amazing. The bottom line is that we don't have the baseline requisite attack spell tiers that every other pure has. We've got our low level spell in 702 that doesn't have any upgradeability. We've got our mid level in 705 without lore backing to give it any teeth like the other pures have. We've got a high level niche spell in 719 with no high level all purpose attack spell which leaves us plinking away or using 720 at high levels when other pures are using their big guns.
The defensive/debilitating/utility 716 idea is cute and if we had the only 719 I'd think it was awesome. Right now though 716 is the spell slot we still have to work with and it needs to be filled with a solid high level CS spell. Let's get 702, 705, our lack of a high level attack spell and our abyssmal lore implementation fixed and then focus on cute lil luxury items like multi-sorcerer demon summoning rituals. The sorcerer profession is broken at it's core and we're worrying about perks.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun... No I don't play a sorcerer anymore, I like my professions to have some teeth.
ATTENTION: Monks were only designed to reach level 39. Please check into the nearest Inn and choose the retire option immediately before you break the game completely!
1. Lores/mana control tied to 702
2. Lores tied to 705
3. High level attack spell
4. Lores design makes lores a requirement on spells instead of a bonus and doesn't allow for effectively mixing lores.
All the bells and whistles are great. Finally having a utility spells for sorcerers is amazing. The bottom line is that we don't have the baseline requisite attack spell tiers that every other pure has. We've got our low level spell in 702 that doesn't have any upgradeability. We've got our mid level in 705 without lore backing to give it any teeth like the other pures have. We've got a high level niche spell in 719 with no high level all purpose attack spell which leaves us plinking away or using 720 at high levels when other pures are using their big guns.
The defensive/debilitating/utility 716 idea is cute and if we had the only 719 I'd think it was awesome. Right now though 716 is the spell slot we still have to work with and it needs to be filled with a solid high level CS spell. Let's get 702, 705, our lack of a high level attack spell and our abyssmal lore implementation fixed and then focus on cute lil luxury items like multi-sorcerer demon summoning rituals. The sorcerer profession is broken at it's core and we're worrying about perks.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun... No I don't play a sorcerer anymore, I like my professions to have some teeth.
ATTENTION: Monks were only designed to reach level 39. Please check into the nearest Inn and choose the retire option immediately before you break the game completely!
Without too much modification, chain reaction DC could work just by implementing the mana return into a second cast, if you get enough return...
Ex:) you mana disrupt a sorcerer. It has more than 100 mana, infusing about 9 back into you (with the current system), if you get back more than half the required mana for a second cast (half of 19 is 9 truncated down I hope!), it causes it to flare onto the second critter in the room. With the appropriate training in mana control, each plateau can yield an extra critter target (so we can have a CS 'cone' spell besides evil eye which is NOT player friendly).
Ex:) you mana disrupt a sorcerer. It has more than 100 mana, infusing about 9 back into you (with the current system), if you get back more than half the required mana for a second cast (half of 19 is 9 truncated down I hope!), it causes it to flare onto the second critter in the room. With the appropriate training in mana control, each plateau can yield an extra critter target (so we can have a CS 'cone' spell besides evil eye which is NOT player friendly).
