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ReplyWay back when you guys changed how spirit enhancives worked, it was posted, by Oscuro I believe, something along the following, paraphrasing because I've got no search feature.
"You will no longer be penalized for using maxspirit items. When you have less than your maximum spirit, the additional spirit gained by a maxspirit item will not count against you. So if you have +2 max spirit, and are at 8/12, you will still be at full power for AS/DS because you will be considered to be 8/10. This is only for max spirit enhancives, if you gain more than normal spirit from aura enhancives it will be as before."
This is not so. Perhaps I made this up in my head, but I have a pretty good memory. It could be if you have spirit both from aura and maxspirit proper precedence is not set. But it isn't working.
This is working as intended. My original post can be found at http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/536 and it only references how bonuses are gained or loss when enhancive effects is applied or removed.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
| Enhancives which boost a player's resource pool (mana, health, spirit, or stamina) will no longer affect a player's current pool when the effect/item is added or removed. There is an exception to this rule. If you lose a bonus and your current pool is above the new maximum, it will subtract out the amount of the lost bonus, but will not take you lower than your new maximum. e.g. You have a normal maximum of 100 mana with a bonus of +25, totaling 125. If you have 120 mana at the time of the lost benefit, it would reduce your current mana to 100, to match the new maximum of 100. However, if you had 150 mana at the time of the loss, it would only reduce your current mana to 125. |
| This will ensure players do not suffer a loss of their resources at a critical time (e.g. during a hunt and your mana-well potion ends) and that they will not suffer penalties for going below zero of their current pool (nerve damage from loss of mana, death from loss of hit points, etc). |
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
>"Some days it's just not worth, chewing through the straight-jacket"
I didn't find that, but isn't this what your looking for?
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Enhancive_item_(saved_post)
Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Items and Inventory
Message number: 1997
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2009 10:25:52 PM
Subject: Re: Enhancive Update
In response to player feedback, we've updated the Attack and Defense Strength formula when accounting for missing health and spirit. Instead of using the player's enhanced health/spirit, the combat system will no longer count +maximum health or spirit items against the player. Take note that enhancives which modify a player's Aura stat (thus increasing their spirit) are still used.
For example, a warrior with 200 hit points normally starts seeing AS penalties when his hit points fall below 150. That is, he can lose up to 50 hit points before experiencing any combat penalty. If he wears a +20 hit points item and heals up to 220 hit points, he still will not see any penalties until his hit points fall below 150. So he now can lose up to 70 hit points before experiencing combat penalties.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
I didn't find that, but isn't this what your looking for?
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Enhancive_item_(saved_post)
Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Items and Inventory
Message number: 1997
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2009 10:25:52 PM
Subject: Re: Enhancive Update
In response to player feedback, we've updated the Attack and Defense Strength formula when accounting for missing health and spirit. Instead of using the player's enhanced health/spirit, the combat system will no longer count +maximum health or spirit items against the player. Take note that enhancives which modify a player's Aura stat (thus increasing their spirit) are still used.
For example, a warrior with 200 hit points normally starts seeing AS penalties when his hit points fall below 150. That is, he can lose up to 50 hit points before experiencing any combat penalty. If he wears a +20 hit points item and heals up to 220 hit points, he still will not see any penalties until his hit points fall below 150. So he now can lose up to 70 hit points before experiencing combat penalties.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
I just tested this and it appears to be working as intended. My AS and DS were not affected when I dropped down to 8 spirit from a maximum of 12 (normal max of 10 and +2 spirit enhancive). If you're still experiencing this issue, please provide more details, including a log if possible.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
I probably wasn't being clear.
I meant to say that I found it odd that the spirit bonus derived from aura enhancives(vs direct max spirit enhancives) is excluded from being regarded by the system that does not count our bonus spirit against us for the purposes of calculating as/ds loss due to spirit loss.
>I meant to say that I found it odd that the spirit bonus derived from aura enhancives(vs direct max spirit enhancives) is excluded from being regarded by the system that does not count our bonus spirit against us for the purposes of calculating as/ds loss due to spirit loss.
I do the same thing. To be more specific or clear - he's referring to having 12 spirit because he has 115-120 AURA. He is using his enhancives to increase his AURA large enough to increase his spirit.
I experience the same thing... 8/11 is the same as 8/10 for purposes of spirit loss when considering it is gained through aura. Personally I find this awesome on two accounts. 1. I can wrack out in the open (6/11 is 6/10), or use sign of madness while hunting for particularly annoying creatures without worrying about the spirit loss.
But once again, the key here is the spirit is increased through AURA, not +max spirit. Personally I like it this way, but he was pointing out that it wasn't working as you stated it should.
~Athias (Platinum)
I do the same thing. To be more specific or clear - he's referring to having 12 spirit because he has 115-120 AURA. He is using his enhancives to increase his AURA large enough to increase his spirit.
I experience the same thing... 8/11 is the same as 8/10 for purposes of spirit loss when considering it is gained through aura. Personally I find this awesome on two accounts. 1. I can wrack out in the open (6/11 is 6/10), or use sign of madness while hunting for particularly annoying creatures without worrying about the spirit loss.
But once again, the key here is the spirit is increased through AURA, not +max spirit. Personally I like it this way, but he was pointing out that it wasn't working as you stated it should.
~Athias (Platinum)
>>8/11 is the same as 8/10 for purposes of spirit loss when considering it is gained through aura.
Just to be sure I'm personally tracking all this -- when a character has sufficient aura to raise spirit to 11, are we suggesting that 8/11 does not give penalties to AS?
I ask because in my observations, I see 8/10 as no penalties, and 8/11 definitely with penalties (need to get to 9/11 to get rid of the penalties).
Are others seeing 8/11 truly without AS penalty?
Doug
Just to be sure I'm personally tracking all this -- when a character has sufficient aura to raise spirit to 11, are we suggesting that 8/11 does not give penalties to AS?
I ask because in my observations, I see 8/10 as no penalties, and 8/11 definitely with penalties (need to get to 9/11 to get rid of the penalties).
Are others seeing 8/11 truly without AS penalty?
Doug
Speaking only for myself, I can say that at 8/11 I see AS penalties. That is of course, as was previously stated, due to my spirit being enhanced via my aura stat.
>>Personally I find this awesome on two accounts. 1. I can wrack out in the open (6/11 is 6/10), or use sign of madness while hunting for particularly annoying creatures without worrying about the spirit loss<<
I had not realized this was a side-effect. I do like wracking in public. Are you saying if I had Max Spirit enhancives this would not be possible?
>I didn't find that, but isn't this what your looking for?
Yes, exactly, kudos to you. I'm not crazy.
>I just tested this and it appears to be working as intended. My AS and DS were not affected when I dropped down to 8 spirit from a maximum of 12 (normal max of 10 and +2 spirit enhancive). If you're still experiencing this issue, please provide more details, including a log if possible.
Yes, and I think I know why. I would have 13 spirit from aura regardless of the maxspirit item. So I'm guessing the bug is in your order of operations. Or you need to switch an OR to an AND or something along those lines. Or the system is seeing me as having 15 spirit, which is of course impossible now.
Log, showing AS at 13/13, 8/13, 9/13, and 10/13. With the maxspirit item they should be considered as if 8/11, 9/11, and 10/11
>health
You have minor bruises about the head, some minor cuts and bruises on your right arm, and minor cuts and bruises on your back.
You have an old battle scar across your chest.
Maximum Health Points: 184
Remaining Health Points: 184
Maximum Spirit Points: 13
Remaining Spirit Points: 13
Maximum Stamina Points: 141
Remaining Stamina Points: 141
>
.111 her
[Press the ESCape key to abort script.]
prep 111
stance off
cast at her
stance def
[Script finished!]
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You gesture at an Ithzir herald.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at an Ithzir herald!
AS: +557 vs DS: +438 with AvD: +46 + d100 roll: +17 = +182
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left leg blackens kneecap.
The Ithzir herald is stunned!
The roaring ball of fire strikes an Ithzir herald, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 10 points of damage!
Burst of flames to abdomen toasts skin nicely.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>
An Ithzir herald holds his head as he tries to regain his bearings.
>sign of wracking
You shudder as your life force is torn and reshaped!
You feel drained!
>health
You have minor bruises about the head, some minor cuts and bruises on your right arm, and minor cuts and bruises on your back.
You have an old battle scar across your chest.
Maximum Health Points: 184
Remaining Health Points: 184
Maximum Spirit Points: 13
Remaining Spirit Points: 8
Maximum Stamina Points: 141
Remaining Stamina Points: 141
>
.111 her
[Press the ESCape key to abort script.]
prep 111
stance off
cast at her
stance def
[Script finished!]
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You gesture at an Ithzir herald.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at an Ithzir herald!
AS: +478 vs DS: +432 with AvD: +46 + d100 roll: +26 = +118
... and hit for 6 points of damage!
Burst of flames to chest. Didn't hurt much.
The roaring ball of fire strikes an Ithzir herald, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 30 points of damage!
Flames cook an Ithzir herald's chest. Looks about medium well.
The Ithzir herald is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>
An Ithzir scout fades into view!
An Ithzir scout swings a gleaming steel broadsword at you!
AS: +412 vs DS: +677 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +7 = -225
A clean miss.
>
You feel at full magical power again.
You feel less drained.
>
An Ithzir scout swings a gleaming steel broadsword at you!
AS: +412 vs DS: +677 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +33 = -199
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir scout slings her grey shield over her shoulder.
An Ithzir scout grabs a stunned Ithzir herald and drags her compatriot northwest!
>
An Ithzir initiate strides in, her hands clasped before her.
>health
You have minor bruises about the head, some minor cuts and bruises on your right arm, and minor cuts and bruises on your back.
You have an old battle scar across your chest.
Maximum Health Points: 184
Remaining Health Points: 184
Maximum Spirit Points: 13
Remaining Spirit Points: 9
Maximum Stamina Points: 141
Remaining Stamina Points: 141
>
.111 init
[Press the ESCape key to abort script.]
prep 111
stance off
cast at init
stance def
[Script finished!]
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You gesture at an Ithzir initiate.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at an Ithzir initiate!
AS: +478 vs DS: +408 with AvD: +59 + d100 roll: +58 = +187
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Burst of flames to right arm toasts skin to elbows.
The Ithzir initiate is stunned!
The roaring ball of fire strikes an Ithzir initiate, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 20 points of damage!
Burst of flames to chest toasts skin nicely.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
An Ithzir initiate draws a large sign in the air before her...
Spirits begin to swirl around you.
CS: +395 - TD: +412 + CvA: +12 + d100: +99 == +94
Warded off!
>
You feel more refreshed.
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at an Ithzir initiate's feet as she releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!
CS: +395 - TD: +442 + CvA: +12 + d100: +60 == +25
Warded off!
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
CS: +395 - TD: +442 + CvA: +12 + d100: +94 == +59
Warded off!
>
An Ithzir initiate surveys the area confidently, saying, "Pa letthe, isonna ytrak ka patrabi maktali cra!"
The Ithzir initiate laughs.
An Ithzir initiate swings a twisted crystal-tipped staff at you!
You barely manage to fend off the attack with your staff!
The scintillating light surrounding the staff fades some.
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at an Ithzir initiate's feet as she releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!
CS: +395 - TD: +442 + CvA: +12 + d100: +41 == +6
Warded off!
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
A vibrant, amber aura builds around an Ithzir initiate. A quick buildup of light precedes a blaze of energy shooting through the air toward you!
CS: +395 - TD: +442 + CvA: +12 + d100: +82 == +47
Warded off!
>
An Ithzir scout makes no sound as she slips in.
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>410
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Wave...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an Ithzir initiate.
A wave of dark ethereal ripples moves outward from you.
An Ithzir scout is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
An Ithzir initiate is buffeted by the dark ethereal waves and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
An Ithzir scout grunts as she rises to her feet.
>
You feel more refreshed.
>
An Ithzir scout reaches down and jerks an Ithzir initiate upright.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at an Ithzir initiate's feet as she releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!
CS: +395 - TD: +442 + CvA: +12 + d100: +87 == +52
Warded off!
>
You feel at full magical power again.
You feel less drained.
>
An Ithzir scout swings a gleaming steel broadsword at you!
You easily parry the attack with your illthorn staff!
>
An Ithzir initiate closes her eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir initiate strides in, his hands clasped before him.
>
An Ithzir scout swings a gleaming steel broadsword at you!
AS: +412 vs DS: +695 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +7 = -243
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir initiate places one palm on her chest, and raises the other toward you!
An Ithzir initiate draws a large sign in the air before her...
Spirits begin to swirl around you.
CS: +395 - TD: +412 + CvA: +12 + d100: +89 == +84
Warded off!
>
An Ithzir initiate swings a twisted crystal-tipped staff at you!
With no room to spare, you manage to parry the blow with your illthorn staff!
The scintillating light surrounding the staff fades some.
>
An Ithzir initiate closes his eyes while uttering a hollow, alien chant.
>
An Ithzir scout swings a gleaming steel broadsword at you!
At the last moment, you parry the blow with your staff!
>
.111 init
[Press the ESCape key to abort script.]
prep 111
stance off
cast at init
stance def
[Script finished!]
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You gesture at an Ithzir initiate.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at an Ithzir initiate!
AS: +557 vs DS: +394 with AvD: +59 + d100 roll: +25 = +247
... and hit for 101 points of damage!
Left arm incinerated. Unfortunate.
The Ithzir initiate is stunned!
The roaring ball of fire strikes an Ithzir initiate, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 20 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right arm. Gonna need lots of butter.
A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits an Ithzir scout.
... 25 points of damage!
Left hand fried to a crisp. Think barbecue sauce.
The Ithzir scout is stunned!
A burst of flame from your roaring ball of fire flies off and hits an Ithzir initiate.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to right eye. Foe blinks back the tears.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>
An Ithzir initiate grabs a stunned Ithzir initiate and drags her compatriot northeast!
>health
You have minor bruises about the head, some minor cuts and bruises on your right arm, and minor cuts and bruises on your back.
You have an old battle scar across your chest.
Maximum Health Points: 184
Remaining Health Points: 184
Maximum Spirit Points: 13
Remaining Spirit Points: 10
Maximum Stamina Points: 141
Remaining Stamina Points: 141
>I meant to say that I found it odd that the spirit bonus derived from aura enhancives(vs direct max spirit enhancives) is excluded from being regarded by the system that does not count our bonus spirit against us for the purposes of calculating as/ds loss due to spirit loss.
I agree, especially since this same restriction doesn't seem to apply to Constitution stat based on Estild's next post on the subject. Although, I'm not sure exactly how the boosted Con stat would cause a character to suffer a penalty but if one stat boosted doesn't count against you neither should another.
I agree, especially since this same restriction doesn't seem to apply to Constitution stat based on Estild's next post on the subject. Although, I'm not sure exactly how the boosted Con stat would cause a character to suffer a penalty but if one stat boosted doesn't count against you neither should another.
| Re: Enhancive Update 2 |
| Category: Game Design Discussions |
| Topic: Items and Inventory |
| Message number: 2002 |
| Author: GS4-ESTILD |
| Date: 5/12/2009 11:23:18 PM |
| Subject: Re: Enhancive Update |
| >And the Con stat? And Physical Training ranks (if below maximum hit points)? -Eugenides |
| Enhancives which boost the character's Constitution or Physical Training won't count against them. |
| >And Harness Power ranks? -Eugenides |
| There is no AS/DS penalty for missing mana. |
| >You said items... but does this also include things like CMan Toughness (since it adds health)? -MOONGODDESS |
| Sorry, that should have been any enhancive (item or effect). Yes, it includes Combat Toughness. |
| >It's not an enhancive bonus, and is thus counted as your regular maximum. As an example, if you train in the Maneuver, and check your health, the addition is not highlighted in yellow.-Eugenides |
| That's due to a bug, which I just corrected. Toughness is an enhancive. |
| GameMaster Estild |
| Cleric/Empath Team |
| [\table] |
>I had not realized this was a side-effect. I do like wracking in public. Are you saying if I had Max Spirit enhancives this would not be possible?
I do not know the answer to that question, I would venture to say it is possible with a +maxspirit but would require testing to be sure. I know 100% that it is possible with 11 spirit gained through +aura. That being said I cannot provide proof because I recently switched over to GoS and am playing around with that at the moment.
~Athias (Platinum)
I do not know the answer to that question, I would venture to say it is possible with a +maxspirit but would require testing to be sure. I know 100% that it is possible with 11 spirit gained through +aura. That being said I cannot provide proof because I recently switched over to GoS and am playing around with that at the moment.
~Athias (Platinum)
Is it at all possible to get an answer on this from Estild or anyone? It has been like two months. I don't necessary need it fixed right now, I would just like to know if it is a bug (that the spirit system penalizes someone with a high aura by not giving them the benefit of any maxspirit enhancives they wear) and it will eventually be fixed. Or if it isn't a bug and well, won't be.
See... my item is out of charges, and its 66900 bps to recharge. I just don't want to waste the bps if it isn't going to be fixed.
