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>>The freemium model isn't new in the fantasy gaming industry.
>>There are 1000 games out there they could be playing 100% for free.
I appreciate the correction, would love to see the list! Soon, though, there will be 1001 - with the newcomer a very distinct and different breed, I posit.
Perhaps, I should amend my 'too few of too few' to include lack of advertisement and uncapped / unfettered play without restriction. I get that if I (the existing player) have two accounts, and one of those accounts accrues levels / skills at 1/3rd the rate of the other, I feel that a restriction. Keep in mind, this isn't for me. Uncapped / unfettered - pretty amazing. Those perhaps, and other discriminators do make a slight difference.
In summary, before the Gift of Lumnis, the basic accounts did exactly this in terms of experience. Items of yore are no where's near equivalent to the artifacts of today, and a far greater number have left the lands with access to very few if any of these types of items. Spells today are more powerful than they were in yesteryear. Should we get an influx, this account type won't be substantially off from their previous experience, and gives a window to the new world order of incredible changes. In short, I'd be almost willing to bet that this will feel very much like GSIII gameplay (discounting rules changes, etc.) to those who aren't hung up on why they can't use their vorpal sword of doom hand-me-down on their free account.
I do have a sincere question, though:
>>We should be wining and dining folks when they first come in
How? Especially how in light of the demands the current subscription based players make as a part of their 'rights'. I'm actually in favor of something that leads to wining and dining rather than our current experience.
Doug
>>I think a lot of people are over-thinking this. If there are any kinks I'm sure Wyrom and Solomon will adjust as needed.
^^^ This.
I can understand a lot of the questions. This was a lot of hard work over many months. I can understand many of the concerns, but let me put things in a better perspective.
For years and years, we've been hearing players state, "If GS had a lite or super basic account for a few bucks, I'd totally come back." Think of this like GS4Lite. A very reduced version of GS, completely free. It's not unplayable. It's not too gutted. If RP and community are the things you enjoy most, this is the perfect subscription tier for you. Yes, we've slimmed down all the usual things that a basic subscriber is accustom to. But that's because we don't want to take anything away from our subscribers. We still appreciate your business, and without you, we'd never be able to grow. We're taking a gamble here and trying something new. This isn't intended for people who want the most out of GS. This is for people who want to try it out and see what there is to offer.
We'll go into more details, but bear with us while we introduce some of the features of the F2P subscription tier.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
^^^ This.
I can understand a lot of the questions. This was a lot of hard work over many months. I can understand many of the concerns, but let me put things in a better perspective.
For years and years, we've been hearing players state, "If GS had a lite or super basic account for a few bucks, I'd totally come back." Think of this like GS4Lite. A very reduced version of GS, completely free. It's not unplayable. It's not too gutted. If RP and community are the things you enjoy most, this is the perfect subscription tier for you. Yes, we've slimmed down all the usual things that a basic subscriber is accustom to. But that's because we don't want to take anything away from our subscribers. We still appreciate your business, and without you, we'd never be able to grow. We're taking a gamble here and trying something new. This isn't intended for people who want the most out of GS. This is for people who want to try it out and see what there is to offer.
We'll go into more details, but bear with us while we introduce some of the features of the F2P subscription tier.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
I'd like to think most of us are just trying to get all the facts straight. For myself I am considering this F2P subscription as an option for my teenage son who has expressed an interest in the game I play so often. If I am asking a lot of questions it is only to fully understand the F2P model.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
I just wanted to chime in to say...
>>... Though if he calls me "bro" or "dude" one more time tonight I might just kill him and this will all be a moot point.
HAHAHA.
~GM Liia
Team 3P/T&C ASGM, Events Manager
Elanthia's derpiest rolton bleats anxiously!
Speaking to Elanthia's derpiest rolton, you say, "Oh, shut it."
>>... Though if he calls me "bro" or "dude" one more time tonight I might just kill him and this will all be a moot point.
HAHAHA.
~GM Liia
Team 3P/T&C ASGM, Events Manager
Elanthia's derpiest rolton bleats anxiously!
Speaking to Elanthia's derpiest rolton, you say, "Oh, shut it."
Hah. And yes, I understand. We just want to make sure we answer accurately. GM Coase was lead on a lot of the questions that are coming through, so I'd rather we get the facts straight before making a mistake with how we present something.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
My biggest concern in all this is that it'll become a breeding ground for MAers and/or bots of all sorts. Why bother ever visiting the empaths in TSC? Just create an empath on a free account, level them up a bit, and get free healing from here on out! While we're at it, who needs clerics anyways? Or spellcasters? Or loresingers?
I think things NEED to be restrictive here. This game relies so much on player interaction, and too loose a policy risks throwing it all away.
Fyonn's player
I think things NEED to be restrictive here. This game relies so much on player interaction, and too loose a policy risks throwing it all away.
Fyonn's player
My biggest concern in all this is that it'll become a breeding ground for MAers and/or bots of all sorts. Why bother ever visiting the empaths in TSC? Just create an empath on a free account, level them up a bit, and get free healing from here on out! While we're at it, who needs clerics anyways? Or spellcasters? Or loresingers?
I think things NEED to be restrictive here. This game relies so much on player interaction, and too loose a policy risks throwing it all away.
Fyonn's player
All we can hope for is that the player base does not abuse this. I think there are several of us that worry the abuse will happen and hope for once people will not ruin this.
I think things NEED to be restrictive here. This game relies so much on player interaction, and too loose a policy risks throwing it all away.
Fyonn's player
All we can hope for is that the player base does not abuse this. I think there are several of us that worry the abuse will happen and hope for once people will not ruin this.
I suggest that characters using this account type must be identified by some special class of pre-name title. For the altruistic in our community, this obvious classification would help identify those who may need additional encouragement/assistance. For the role-players in our community, the existence of a new underclass or immigrant group into society could provide interesting interactions, including a latent peer pressure to upgrade whenever possible. Perhaps we could all agree to just explain their existence as being refugees from the recent wars, or recently released Krolvin prisoners of war.
Suggested titles for this effect: Commoner, Farmer, Immigrant, Refugee, Itinerant, Conscript, Pion, Serf, Mendicant.
Yes, there will be a temptation to marginalize and isolate these characters for some. Others will want to protect, succor and shelter them. To me, that's all good role-playing opportunity of the type we have lacked for YEARS now. I remember well starting GS3 as a true newbie with no in-game friends or clues about what was what (other than a long familiarity with AD&D). There were breakage and item droppage at death/decay then. There was necessity to work in groups to survive and thrive. There were older characters that took genuine interest in mentoring and also "policing" the social mores of the world they had established. There were bullies and there were some true heroes. Those layers of possible interaction are largely gone now.
I hope this infusion of new blood will be succussful, and that most convert into full paying members of the community at the premium level.
Don't forget to also offer some love for referrals into this program for existing players.
Tarakan
Suggested titles for this effect: Commoner, Farmer, Immigrant, Refugee, Itinerant, Conscript, Pion, Serf, Mendicant.
Yes, there will be a temptation to marginalize and isolate these characters for some. Others will want to protect, succor and shelter them. To me, that's all good role-playing opportunity of the type we have lacked for YEARS now. I remember well starting GS3 as a true newbie with no in-game friends or clues about what was what (other than a long familiarity with AD&D). There were breakage and item droppage at death/decay then. There was necessity to work in groups to survive and thrive. There were older characters that took genuine interest in mentoring and also "policing" the social mores of the world they had established. There were bullies and there were some true heroes. Those layers of possible interaction are largely gone now.
I hope this infusion of new blood will be succussful, and that most convert into full paying members of the community at the premium level.
Don't forget to also offer some love for referrals into this program for existing players.
Tarakan
Jumping in on the thread of a million and one questions, yay!
For the silver restrictions (on the person or in the bank account), how does this work with bank notes? I guess I assume that since the WEALTH command tabulates money including notes, that probably it counts all forms. Also, I don't see what stops anyone from setting up a bazillion F2P accounts for each 100k (or whatever) they want to have. Am I really worried about this abuse? No, not so much. I'm just curious here. Obviously, doing something like this becomes finally a lot of work, and at some point the amount of work might not be worth the investment of time and they'll find another way to get their stacks of silvers (like, I dunno, subscribing). Still, I'm a relative master of finding stash points around the game; why not stash 100k bank notes, too?
My biggest concern is, of course, scripting bots of all kinds. Script checking takes a lot of time. When it's F2P, set up various computers running lots of bots, sell the F2P accounts, and someone can upgrade it to a P2P account with a level 30 (whatever). People are already doing this in our community I'm pretty sure, and this only makes it easier. I saw a team of 3 characters I'd never seen before around town open a warcamp a couple days ago in RR. It's perhaps a kind of genius way to script: if you're in a warcamp in a remote town, it's much less likely anyone else can spot and report you. For all I know it's three legit players who are new or like to keep to themselves. It could also just as easily be one person AFK scripting 3 accounts.
>I suggest that characters using this account type must be identified by some special class of pre-name title. For the altruistic in our community, this obvious classification would help identify those who may need additional encouragement/assistance. For the role-players in our community, the existence of a new underclass or immigrant group into society could provide interesting interactions, including a latent peer pressure to upgrade whenever possible. Perhaps we could all agree to just explain their existence as being refugees from the recent wars, or recently released Krolvin prisoners of war.
>Suggested titles for this effect: Commoner, Farmer, Immigrant, Refugee, Itinerant, Conscript, Pion, Serf, Mendicant.
I'm not sure if I actually like this idea or not, but some part of me also thought of this exact sort of idea. It still doesn't prove that a horde of F2P characters scripting the game are doing anything against policy. Indeed scripting itself is not against policy (nor should it be).
So, mostly I don't have too many questions as it turns out (or other people seem to be asking them). I'm not even worried about our awesome staff and GM team working to resolve issues that come up and having great insight, ideas, and action.
Still, with scripting bots being a relatively large problem in my mind as it is, I do feel a little dicey on how it's going to pan out. That's by no means opposition to this model or idea! I'm allowed to be nervous though, I think. An experience penalty doesn't necessarily matter if you can script 100 accounts at once and sell them later. Obviously, there is some limit on the market and how many characters the existing community wants to buy, but I'd rather not have us max this limit out, either.
I would not mind if we implemented the impossibility to log a single computer into the game more than once. At least then you'd need one computer for every character you login. I don't know technically how feasible this is, but in principle it should work. Though there might be hacks around it, I'd like to see it tried. I'm well aware it would punish existing subscriptions of mutli-accounting, and I'm okay with that. We should never have opened the flood gates to that possibility as wide as we did. It should be fine to own multiple accounts. And we can't stop anyone from using multiple computers. But there's got to be something stopping a single user from having as many F2P scripted logins as their computer and bandwidth can handle. Anyway, I certainly don't know of any two-player teams where two humans are playing GS through the same single computer at once.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
For the silver restrictions (on the person or in the bank account), how does this work with bank notes? I guess I assume that since the WEALTH command tabulates money including notes, that probably it counts all forms. Also, I don't see what stops anyone from setting up a bazillion F2P accounts for each 100k (or whatever) they want to have. Am I really worried about this abuse? No, not so much. I'm just curious here. Obviously, doing something like this becomes finally a lot of work, and at some point the amount of work might not be worth the investment of time and they'll find another way to get their stacks of silvers (like, I dunno, subscribing). Still, I'm a relative master of finding stash points around the game; why not stash 100k bank notes, too?
My biggest concern is, of course, scripting bots of all kinds. Script checking takes a lot of time. When it's F2P, set up various computers running lots of bots, sell the F2P accounts, and someone can upgrade it to a P2P account with a level 30 (whatever). People are already doing this in our community I'm pretty sure, and this only makes it easier. I saw a team of 3 characters I'd never seen before around town open a warcamp a couple days ago in RR. It's perhaps a kind of genius way to script: if you're in a warcamp in a remote town, it's much less likely anyone else can spot and report you. For all I know it's three legit players who are new or like to keep to themselves. It could also just as easily be one person AFK scripting 3 accounts.
>I suggest that characters using this account type must be identified by some special class of pre-name title. For the altruistic in our community, this obvious classification would help identify those who may need additional encouragement/assistance. For the role-players in our community, the existence of a new underclass or immigrant group into society could provide interesting interactions, including a latent peer pressure to upgrade whenever possible. Perhaps we could all agree to just explain their existence as being refugees from the recent wars, or recently released Krolvin prisoners of war.
>Suggested titles for this effect: Commoner, Farmer, Immigrant, Refugee, Itinerant, Conscript, Pion, Serf, Mendicant.
I'm not sure if I actually like this idea or not, but some part of me also thought of this exact sort of idea. It still doesn't prove that a horde of F2P characters scripting the game are doing anything against policy. Indeed scripting itself is not against policy (nor should it be).
So, mostly I don't have too many questions as it turns out (or other people seem to be asking them). I'm not even worried about our awesome staff and GM team working to resolve issues that come up and having great insight, ideas, and action.
Still, with scripting bots being a relatively large problem in my mind as it is, I do feel a little dicey on how it's going to pan out. That's by no means opposition to this model or idea! I'm allowed to be nervous though, I think. An experience penalty doesn't necessarily matter if you can script 100 accounts at once and sell them later. Obviously, there is some limit on the market and how many characters the existing community wants to buy, but I'd rather not have us max this limit out, either.
I would not mind if we implemented the impossibility to log a single computer into the game more than once. At least then you'd need one computer for every character you login. I don't know technically how feasible this is, but in principle it should work. Though there might be hacks around it, I'd like to see it tried. I'm well aware it would punish existing subscriptions of mutli-accounting, and I'm okay with that. We should never have opened the flood gates to that possibility as wide as we did. It should be fine to own multiple accounts. And we can't stop anyone from using multiple computers. But there's got to be something stopping a single user from having as many F2P scripted logins as their computer and bandwidth can handle. Anyway, I certainly don't know of any two-player teams where two humans are playing GS through the same single computer at once.
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
>>I suggest that characters using this account type must be identified by some special
Yeeaaaah, no. At least, not exactly this way. If someone wants to come in and start immediately roleplaying an elven prince and acting all haughty - that pretitle of farmer is going to destroy the immersion. And most of your returning / seasoned vets who are going to want to try this out aren't likely to be starting farmers.
Besides, Vivaldi might have a thing or two to say about infringement.
Now - if it could be toggled, and essentially be a flag for 'help', sure. Or, even better, if the account name just shows up in the SERVICES list as "NEEDING HELP", until the player turns it off or until level 20 (40?) comes by, wouldn't that be better.
I like the idea of some differentiation, but nothing that would force roleplay diversion, and nothing permanent. Bicycle flag and training wheels. Playing a lower caste needs to be a choice.
Doug
Yeeaaaah, no. At least, not exactly this way. If someone wants to come in and start immediately roleplaying an elven prince and acting all haughty - that pretitle of farmer is going to destroy the immersion. And most of your returning / seasoned vets who are going to want to try this out aren't likely to be starting farmers.
Besides, Vivaldi might have a thing or two to say about infringement.
Now - if it could be toggled, and essentially be a flag for 'help', sure. Or, even better, if the account name just shows up in the SERVICES list as "NEEDING HELP", until the player turns it off or until level 20 (40?) comes by, wouldn't that be better.
I like the idea of some differentiation, but nothing that would force roleplay diversion, and nothing permanent. Bicycle flag and training wheels. Playing a lower caste needs to be a choice.
Doug
>I like the idea of some differentiation, but nothing that would force roleplay diversion, and nothing permanent. Bicycle flag and training wheels. Playing a lower caste needs to be a choice.
You see Chancellor Kaldonis Harvest-Moon the Witch Doctor.
He appears to be a Halfling.
He is a free-to-play n00b.
He is diminutive...
What could possibly detract from RP immersion here? ^_^
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
You see Chancellor Kaldonis Harvest-Moon the Witch Doctor.
He appears to be a Halfling.
He is a free-to-play n00b.
He is diminutive...
What could possibly detract from RP immersion here? ^_^
"What Kaldonis does on his off time is totally Kaldonis's business, dude." ~Scribes
"We have to keep in mind here- having people around at all- whether or not they're paying for it- is a value add for Simu." -- Sven2010
This was absolutely NOT true for many of the AOL free account griefers. Their presence was a detriment.
Now with that said, many of the players who came with the AOL influx were fantastic.
.
But simply the havingness of more bodies in game does NOT equate to "we're improving!"
This was absolutely NOT true for many of the AOL free account griefers. Their presence was a detriment.
Now with that said, many of the players who came with the AOL influx were fantastic.
.
But simply the havingness of more bodies in game does NOT equate to "we're improving!"
<< There are three levels of Gear Passes (bronze, silver, and gold). A Bronze Gear Pass will allow a player to receive the benefit of gear up to +35 enchantment (7x) and heavily weighted/padded/sighted. A Silver Gear Pass will allow a player to receive the benefit of gear up to +40 enchantment (8x), very heavily weighted/padded/sighted, +25 TD enhancement, or +10 Defensive Bonus (DB). Gold Gear passes allow full benefits of any equipment's enchantment, weighting, padding, sighting, TD enhancement, or Defensive Bonus (DB), just like a paid subscriber. All passes are good for 30 days. >>
You really think somebody will play on an F2P account long enough to have that kind of gear? I would think anybody who likes the game that much would switch to a full account long before advancing so far.
Otherwise, it sounds exciting. I'm looking forward to meeting some of the new players.
You really think somebody will play on an F2P account long enough to have that kind of gear? I would think anybody who likes the game that much would switch to a full account long before advancing so far.
Otherwise, it sounds exciting. I'm looking forward to meeting some of the new players.
I do hate to be the one to remind you of this Krakii, but we're not in AOL days anymore. We complained back then because we already had a nice solid group of players. We're running dangerously low these days.
In any MMORPG, having people present is critical for success. Right now, every single person adds value just by existing.
Well,
I've been replying to Simu messages on facebook for years now suggesting they finally go free to play. When I saw the announcement I was beside myself and messaged every person that I game with (some who had previously played and many who had not).
Unfortunately, after playing and doing some research I've come to the realization that this is not really free to play. Someone pointed this out earlier but I always envisioned it as getting the normal game experience and then paying money for extras such as events, raffles, item customization, etc.
Instead it comes across as giant nickle and dime effort to force you to subscribe in order to play.
Given that the entire reason I stopped playing was I didn't have enough time to justify paying $15 a month for a text based game that was essentially dying a long slow death, the new f2p solution doesn't help me at all.
I made a wizard to get around the 4x gear limit (assuming it doesn't block eblade for working for me -- not high enough to test yet). However, I can't use any societies which is a huge fault and even if I can live without that eventually I will find experience gain dropping off.
The only reason I even played before was to primarily burn my XXX every week (which I don't have as a f2p player), and the levelling is absurdly long already.
Gemstone gives a whole new meaning to the word grinding. You could literally level faster hunting creatures 9 levels below you in wow then you can in gemstone.
I really think the hunt -- rest/rp system is one of the best methods of promoting interaction I've ever seen. As was gemstone's complicated network of needing to go to various other players for various benefits/buffs/healing etc. It's a huge strength and a huge weakness given the declining playerbase.
The F2P accounts have restrictions on most of this if not with paying players in all cases then definitely with each other.
I may occasionally log on every so often to poke around but I think for me at least the F2P experiment is over.
I fervently hope that I see a facebook announcement at some point stating they've eased a lot of these restrictions to a more traditional free2play. I understand the need to monetize but I refuse to believe your server/bandwidth fees remotely approach any game made in the last 15 years and it's not like there's a mass of new content being worked. We've been waiting on certain features/classes since the creation of the world wide web.
