Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
Hey, not a big deal or anything but being that people stack this spell up to get the phantom perception ranks boost in combat, would it have been too much to ask that you just give it the standard duration? Or at the very least leave the stacking ability in place? Again, not a big deal to recast the spell a few times during a hunt, but it just makes me wonder why we needed to make this rather inconsequential spell slightly more annoying to use?
~Taverkin
I know my ask was that if it was intended to be long duration then give it a longer duration and if it isn't intended to be long duration then remove the stackable component so it at least makes sense (having a spell that can stack to 4 hours that gives you a couple minutes duration per cast just seems silly). I think the 5 minute duration with the removal of stackable is a nice compromise.
I primarily use this spell on my locksmith characters and a 5 minute refreshable duration is actually more useful than the shorter duration provided per cast before (where my locksmith has a limited mana pool vs. my wizard).
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
I primarily use this spell on my locksmith characters and a 5 minute refreshable duration is actually more useful than the shorter duration provided per cast before (where my locksmith has a limited mana pool vs. my wizard).
-- Robert
"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
<I know my ask was that if it was intended to be long duration then give it a longer duration and if it isn't intended to be long duration then remove the stackable component so it at least <makes sense (having a spell that can stack to 4 hours that gives you a couple minutes duration per cast just seems silly). I think the 5 minute duration with the removal of stackable is a <nice compromise.
<I primarily use this spell on my locksmith characters and a 5 minute refreshable duration is actually more useful than the shorter duration provided per cast before (where my locksmith has a <limited mana pool vs. my wizard).
<-- Robert
I'm glad it's an improvement for the way you use the spell, Robert. I'm sure if it had remained stackable or had a longer duration that wouldn't have been a loss to you. The fact remains it's a slightly annoying addition to a spell that doesn't really matter. Yay?
~Taverkin
<I primarily use this spell on my locksmith characters and a 5 minute refreshable duration is actually more useful than the shorter duration provided per cast before (where my locksmith has a <limited mana pool vs. my wizard).
<-- Robert
I'm glad it's an improvement for the way you use the spell, Robert. I'm sure if it had remained stackable or had a longer duration that wouldn't have been a loss to you. The fact remains it's a slightly annoying addition to a spell that doesn't really matter. Yay?
~Taverkin
<This seems like a contradiction. If the spell does not really matter then why is this change annoying?
Do I really need to explain this? We went from casting the spell a few times before a hunt and then forgetting about it to having to remember to recast it every 5 minutes if we want the meager benefits it provides. Again, not a big deal, but mildly annoying and completely unnecessary. Would it have killed them to just give the spell a longer duration? The standard duration? Or just leave it stackable?
That we are even having this discussion is so...GS. ::Sigh::
~Taverkin
Do I really need to explain this? We went from casting the spell a few times before a hunt and then forgetting about it to having to remember to recast it every 5 minutes if we want the meager benefits it provides. Again, not a big deal, but mildly annoying and completely unnecessary. Would it have killed them to just give the spell a longer duration? The standard duration? Or just leave it stackable?
That we are even having this discussion is so...GS. ::Sigh::
~Taverkin
| Do I really need to explain this? |
I'm not fond of being spoken to in a condescending manner so if that is how you want to respond I hope your argument is VERY persuasive.
| We went from casting the spell a few times before a hunt and then forgetting about it to having to remember to recast it every 5 minutes if we want the meager benefits it provides. Again, not a big deal, but mildly annoying and completely unnecessary. Would it have killed them to just give the spell a longer duration? The standard duration? Or just leave it stackable? |
| That we are even having this discussion is so...GS. ::Sigh:: |
| ~Taverkin |
Your tone does not seem inclusive for all players from my point of view. Who do you claim to represent when you claim the term "We"?
Perhaps that is where we differ in opinion about these changes.
Chad, player of a few
I agree with Tav, I can't seem to find a reason to give it such a short duration. The cost is so little that it's not like recasting it is a resource burden (unlike stacking rapid fire or switching back and forth for 513). So I also don't understand the reasoning behind not just giving it a normal duration.
To be clear, I don't CARE very much, I"m not about to burn down my GS account over it. I just think the logic seems to be missing. Making me recast something every 5 minutes doesn't seem like it does anybody any good.
Stacking of a lot of the spells should never been, its not meant to be running all the time really, just because it boosts ranged. Something boosts an attack doesn't mean it has to be convenient. It runs out maybe it lets you miss an attack or lowers the crit or damage while not running. Thats why you have highlights and sounds. I use those features of the frontends to see when my symbols and spells drop. Poor you, you have to hit a macro every now and then. Boo Hoo. Personally after hunting a bit recently a few times with ranged I'd say the biggest pain in the butt is picking up the arrows for reuse.
Voln Symbols are stackable, but I doubt of the majority of players stack more than a few times. Why? Because of the loss of favor if you have a mishap that makes you need to head in or you die, or over burden. I'd like to see the 3 up all the time symbols have the same duration and remove their stackability. The bears gotta win sometimes, and most of the game is too much of a walk in the park.....
I have always felt that the 15 spells that I have up of my own for 4 hours was a bit much. What other game is like that?
As far as the added Air Lore benefit.... its a 2 point spell and Air Lore has many many many perks as it is. Think of the pointing out as a cantrip.
The spell is improved for everyone else besides ranged, ranged wasn't even in the game when the spell came out so it was just a bandaid anyways.
Just an elf about town...
Voln Symbols are stackable, but I doubt of the majority of players stack more than a few times. Why? Because of the loss of favor if you have a mishap that makes you need to head in or you die, or over burden. I'd like to see the 3 up all the time symbols have the same duration and remove their stackability. The bears gotta win sometimes, and most of the game is too much of a walk in the park.....
I have always felt that the 15 spells that I have up of my own for 4 hours was a bit much. What other game is like that?
As far as the added Air Lore benefit.... its a 2 point spell and Air Lore has many many many perks as it is. Think of the pointing out as a cantrip.
The spell is improved for everyone else besides ranged, ranged wasn't even in the game when the spell came out so it was just a bandaid anyways.
Just an elf about town...
<Your tone does not seem inclusive for all players from my point of view. Who do you claim to represent when you claim the term "We"?
<Perhaps that is where we differ in opinion about these changes.
That's your interpretation. Again, you're dragging this out by refusing to acknowledge the facts: It went from a stacking duration to refreshable. Anyone who stacked the spell can no longer do so and the new duration is too short to last through a typical hunt. I understand that this is not an issue for you. For others it is mildly annoying. That does not include "all players", but it does include some. For instance, myself and the no fewer than 5 players who have asked me for a script to auto-apply this spell since the change was announced.
Does that clear things up for you? Can we drop this pointless conversation?
~Taverkin
<Perhaps that is where we differ in opinion about these changes.
That's your interpretation. Again, you're dragging this out by refusing to acknowledge the facts: It went from a stacking duration to refreshable. Anyone who stacked the spell can no longer do so and the new duration is too short to last through a typical hunt. I understand that this is not an issue for you. For others it is mildly annoying. That does not include "all players", but it does include some. For instance, myself and the no fewer than 5 players who have asked me for a script to auto-apply this spell since the change was announced.
Does that clear things up for you? Can we drop this pointless conversation?
~Taverkin
<Voln Symbols are stackable, but I doubt of the majority of players stack more than a few times. Why? Because of the loss of favor if you have a mishap that makes you need to head in or you <die, or over burden. I'd like to see the 3 up all the time symbols have the same duration and remove their stackability. The bears gotta win sometimes, and most of the game is too much of a <walk in the park.....
There is a difference between challenge and tedium.
~Taverkin
There is a difference between challenge and tedium.
~Taverkin
I can see the game-design justification for not making it longer or stackable. After all, it's a second level spell. If they were going to make it standard duration of 20min+1min/rank stackable, I would think they'd have to make it less powerful for this level of a spell... also because, for example, with standard duration, you could be sure that every ranger using ranged weapons would have this up all the time, using magic items or scrolls. Or even anyone else who uses perception skills. The spell would probably end up cheapened by longer duration -- either because they'd change the formula to make it weaker in effect, or because the rest of the game systems would start to be built on the assumption that you many (most?) people will have this spell running all the time.
This change does make it significantly more usable to non-native casters -- I used it occasionally before (in foraging, searching for heirlooms, not that I'm sure it helps), but I look forward to using it more often now that it lasts five times as long. But I'm certainly not going to have it up all the time. The way I see it, this preserves the advantage of being a native caster. They can just use 2 mana every five minutes if they want it. Non-native casters have to pick and choose, unless they somehow have an unlimited supply of 402 imbeds.
This change does make it significantly more usable to non-native casters -- I used it occasionally before (in foraging, searching for heirlooms, not that I'm sure it helps), but I look forward to using it more often now that it lasts five times as long. But I'm certainly not going to have it up all the time. The way I see it, this preserves the advantage of being a native caster. They can just use 2 mana every five minutes if they want it. Non-native casters have to pick and choose, unless they somehow have an unlimited supply of 402 imbeds.
This was a definite downgrade for anyone that has Rapid Fire, but we already know that spell is getting a downtweak.
This spell was pretty annoying to stack before as a sorcerer. And since my main use of it (since I'm not manually picking locks right now...but I used to use it for that, too) was as dispel fodder, this is for me an upgrade. Explicitly, stacking it was annoying. Then if it did it's job by getting hit by a dispel rather than, say, Cloak of Shadows where I lose like 100 DS, lots of TD, and my retribution, putting it back up during the same hunt meant I had to refresh it as often as Wall of Force.
This version of the spell, while a downgrade for some users, is more in line with the spell's design I feel, and generally benefits a larger percent of the population than the old version.
The only aspect I'd call a "nerf" is for a rogue in full plate that wants to have it active for a hunt, since the hindrance to recast it in the field is a major penalty. There is Armor Fluidity for paladins, though, and previously only bards and especially rangers liked that ability. I'm not saying making Armor Fluidity more popular is a way to justify this, it's just a thought.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
This spell was pretty annoying to stack before as a sorcerer. And since my main use of it (since I'm not manually picking locks right now...but I used to use it for that, too) was as dispel fodder, this is for me an upgrade. Explicitly, stacking it was annoying. Then if it did it's job by getting hit by a dispel rather than, say, Cloak of Shadows where I lose like 100 DS, lots of TD, and my retribution, putting it back up during the same hunt meant I had to refresh it as often as Wall of Force.
This version of the spell, while a downgrade for some users, is more in line with the spell's design I feel, and generally benefits a larger percent of the population than the old version.
The only aspect I'd call a "nerf" is for a rogue in full plate that wants to have it active for a hunt, since the hindrance to recast it in the field is a major penalty. There is Armor Fluidity for paladins, though, and previously only bards and especially rangers liked that ability. I'm not saying making Armor Fluidity more popular is a way to justify this, it's just a thought.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
>If the downside is to rogues in heavy armor, how about they get the ability to decrease hindrance?
That's a paladin thing, as I definitely made reference to (there are 2 armor specializations and 1 spell). Rogues having the ability to decrease hindrance makes about as much sense as wizards being able to adjust how a suit of armor supports your gear better.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
That's a paladin thing, as I definitely made reference to (there are 2 armor specializations and 1 spell). Rogues having the ability to decrease hindrance makes about as much sense as wizards being able to adjust how a suit of armor supports your gear better.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
| Does that clear things up for you? Can we drop this pointless conversation? |
| ~Taverkin |
Indeed it does. And we can drop this conversation.
What I have learned is to trust more in what the GMs say than what the players say about mechanics, and, to ignore players who like to think they know everything and throw temper tantrums at even a hint of a change to the game.
Chad, player of a few
