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I'll keep this short and sweet, feel free to chime in with comments/other suggestions
Krynch : Raise the timer to 30 seconds. Right now you have 10 seconds to find another target if you did an aimed kick on the last target, that would potentially be 4 seconds to find a new target. This severly limits the ability of Krynch, if it was a passive instead of a stance sure, but the fact you can only use one stance at a time makes it much worse.
Iron Skin: Right now you don't get CVA just the df of the armor. I propose a CVA boost, maybe not the same as armor, but at least above robes.
Punch/Kick/Grapple Mastery: Right now maxed out the masteries give 15 MM and +15% chance to tier up with that style of attack. I propose to change it to an accumlative chance.Ie>First punch +15% chance to tier up, 2nd punch +30% to tier up, 3rd punch +45% to tier up. And have the counter reset once you tier up. Biggest problem people have right now is tiering up with UAC from the open. I feel this won't make UAC overpowering, just speed up the process in tiers a little bit.
Any comments/suggestions appreciated.
Monk combat is mostly fine. What monks most need is a non-combat system.
Krynch is intended for use on multiple opponents in the same room where one attack immediately follows the next. 10s including RT is already generous, 2s after RT ran out wouldn't be unfair. If you want a long duration carryover, there's coup.
Warding defense is manageable, and monks need a weakness to compensate for their other defensive strengths. Its unusually extreme, but so are the other strengths. If it really bothers you, you can learn more spells. There's the TD from MnS as well as a 1/2 TD per extra MnM spell available from 1208 and spell defense would be rather too good for a 1x monk if there were CvA bonuses to be grabbed on top of that. Monks are supposed to have trouble making themselves invulnerable to CS attacks, its why slippery mind and inner harmony are available. If anything needs boosting it would be them.
If you want an opening, use jab. The masteries are not supposed to turn the occasional fluked opening into a reliable alternative method for tiering. The reliable method for tiering is supposed to be jab.
Krynch is intended for use on multiple opponents in the same room where one attack immediately follows the next. 10s including RT is already generous, 2s after RT ran out wouldn't be unfair. If you want a long duration carryover, there's coup.
Warding defense is manageable, and monks need a weakness to compensate for their other defensive strengths. Its unusually extreme, but so are the other strengths. If it really bothers you, you can learn more spells. There's the TD from MnS as well as a 1/2 TD per extra MnM spell available from 1208 and spell defense would be rather too good for a 1x monk if there were CvA bonuses to be grabbed on top of that. Monks are supposed to have trouble making themselves invulnerable to CS attacks, its why slippery mind and inner harmony are available. If anything needs boosting it would be them.
If you want an opening, use jab. The masteries are not supposed to turn the occasional fluked opening into a reliable alternative method for tiering. The reliable method for tiering is supposed to be jab.
Monk combat is mostly fine open UAC combat could use some boosts.
If you stop thinking that UAC/Iron Skin is the only path to success a monk can become a formidable fighter.
Open UAC fighting could use some boosts. Since the general consensus is that monks should be the tops at using open UAC fighting techniques there are a few suggestions I could make.
Mongoose - should automatically use the appropriate attack to tier (if any) when you counter attack. (Assuming it doesn't already do that)
mystic strike - Add bonus % to up tier chance equal to the TD push down for the mystic blow.
Krynch - Increase the duration allowed between blows based on end roll (maybe every +20 over endroll 150 add a second)
DragonClaw - Give the flare a 50/50 chance to push you up a tier and make it happen against all enemies instead of just the ones with defensive spells. Or at least give the flare an increased potential to create an opening.
--
Reduce the crit limitations per tiers and instead make tiering increase attack DF and/or just add bonus damage. So a decent hit could potentially have a fatal crit if the end roll is high enough...but upper tier attacks would still be preferable.
Add Katars to UAC weapons with -20 MM/.1 DF increase
<<I haven't used krynch yet, but do you need the next attack to land or just to attempt it on the next creature?>>
From my observations, the first attack on the next creature must hit to have the chance of a higher tier. If you're on haste and have enough time to get a second attack in before the time limit expires, missing the first will remove the chance of tiering up on the second, even if the second attack also hits.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
From my observations, the first attack on the next creature must hit to have the chance of a higher tier. If you're on haste and have enough time to get a second attack in before the time limit expires, missing the first will remove the chance of tiering up on the second, even if the second attack also hits.
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
The 10 second window for Krynch is also laughable when you're hunting anything that requires a setup. Not even feint gives you enough time for a followup.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Using any UAC attack will cause krynch to reset. The only setup that causes problems is smite, because it counts as a UAC attack, and itself has very short duration.
If you require two setups on a critter, and can't find a way to fit them in 10s, use the other setup before krynch.
e.g.
jab critter and get opening for kick
a turtle walks in
feint turtle
kick the critter you have the opening for kicking
punch turtle for the krynch
Unless you are horribly laggy, there is plenty of time to get feint or 1207 off in between UAC attacks.
punch the critter you have position on in the leg (4s)
switch target (in RT)
1207 (3s)
spam punch for the krynch (easily gets through before 10s is up)
If you miss the krynch then hit the first one again to reload. (The reason for hitting it in the leg, is so that its lying on the ground stunned for reloading purposes. If you have excellent on a couple of critters, then go for the head. Just unaimed jab if its already fully disabled.)
3 ranks of punchmastery will turn a lot of whiffs into momentum exploits. The best training for krynch is first to train 2 ranks of krynch, and then to get 3 ranks of punchmastery and only then round off with the 3rd rank of krynch (which isn't really worth training until you have run out of other CMans you want).
If you require two setups on a critter, and can't find a way to fit them in 10s, use the other setup before krynch.
e.g.
jab critter and get opening for kick
a turtle walks in
feint turtle
kick the critter you have the opening for kicking
punch turtle for the krynch
Unless you are horribly laggy, there is plenty of time to get feint or 1207 off in between UAC attacks.
punch the critter you have position on in the leg (4s)
switch target (in RT)
1207 (3s)
spam punch for the krynch (easily gets through before 10s is up)
If you miss the krynch then hit the first one again to reload. (The reason for hitting it in the leg, is so that its lying on the ground stunned for reloading purposes. If you have excellent on a couple of critters, then go for the head. Just unaimed jab if its already fully disabled.)
3 ranks of punchmastery will turn a lot of whiffs into momentum exploits. The best training for krynch is first to train 2 ranks of krynch, and then to get 3 ranks of punchmastery and only then round off with the 3rd rank of krynch (which isn't really worth training until you have run out of other CMans you want).
Nice in theory, unworkable in practice. I disagree with your assumption that Krynch is only intended to be used on multiple creatures in the same room. During the beta, it was set up so Krynch reset every time you moved rooms. We told Finros that this just encouraged camping in single rooms and he altered krynch to the timer system we have now, so clearly he intends for it to have a somewhat mobile aspect. It was a good decision, but I think it's a little strict at the moment. I think a 15 second window would provide a much more practical system.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
It does not work if you have to find another target in a different room, which is why I specified I disagree with your assumption that Krynch is only meant for camping.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Yeah I ended up dropping Krynch partly because of the timer and also because I think I'd rather have Inner Harmony/Slippery Mind up. I usually feint then 1207 critters so often I'd have only a 1s window to pop a critter. It was doable in the same room if I wanted to jab out of sequence, but it almost never worked if I had to move rooms to find a new target.
>It does not work if you have to find another target in a different room, which is why I specified I disagree with your assumption that Krynch is only meant for camping.
Krynch is meant for multi opponent combat. I've never said anything about camping.
The reason for the short timer rather losing it the moment you leave the room, is to allow it to work when chasing a critter that ran away, not to allow you to carry momentum to an unrelated fight. Its long enough that you can sometimes carry it to an unrelated fight, which is why it should be shorter if anything, not longer. Krynch doesn't make sense unless you know where your second target is when you do the first attack, and then 10s is plenty of time to roll it over.
2s after RT from the first attack expired would be fair. (and is what you get if that attack was an aimed kick with no RT reduction applying, so 10s is the appropriate flat rate, but a variable rate dropping to 3s if the first attack was a 1s hasted punch would also be fair)
Krynch is meant for multi opponent combat. I've never said anything about camping.
The reason for the short timer rather losing it the moment you leave the room, is to allow it to work when chasing a critter that ran away, not to allow you to carry momentum to an unrelated fight. Its long enough that you can sometimes carry it to an unrelated fight, which is why it should be shorter if anything, not longer. Krynch doesn't make sense unless you know where your second target is when you do the first attack, and then 10s is plenty of time to roll it over.
2s after RT from the first attack expired would be fair. (and is what you get if that attack was an aimed kick with no RT reduction applying, so 10s is the appropriate flat rate, but a variable rate dropping to 3s if the first attack was a 1s hasted punch would also be fair)
>2s after RT from the first attack expired would be fair. (and is what you get if that attack was an aimed kick with no RT reduction applying, so 10s is the appropriate flat rate, but a variable rate dropping to 3s if the first attack was a 1s hasted punch would also be fair)
What a terrible idea. Now I think you're just trolling; no one could want to make monks even less effective at open combat, could they? Right now Krynch's mobility is the only thing that makes monks at all combat efficient compared to most other combat styles. I understand some people prefer this game to be as tedious as possible, but I'd venture that they are in the minority.
Finros, please consider extending the Krynch timer to 15 seconds. Open UAC monks are at a huge disadvantage compared to UAC ambushers and open swingers of many other styles, but if Krynch had a little more give when roaming a hunting ground, it would do a lot to even the field.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
What a terrible idea. Now I think you're just trolling; no one could want to make monks even less effective at open combat, could they? Right now Krynch's mobility is the only thing that makes monks at all combat efficient compared to most other combat styles. I understand some people prefer this game to be as tedious as possible, but I'd venture that they are in the minority.
Finros, please consider extending the Krynch timer to 15 seconds. Open UAC monks are at a huge disadvantage compared to UAC ambushers and open swingers of many other styles, but if Krynch had a little more give when roaming a hunting ground, it would do a lot to even the field.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
>What a terrible idea. Now I think you're just trolling; no one could want to make monks even less effective at open combat, could they? Right now Krynch's mobility is the only thing that makes monks at all combat efficient compared to most other combat styles. I understand some people prefer this game to be as tedious as possible, but I'd venture that they are in the minority.
Krynch is overpowered as it is currently implemented. It should be equally attractive to other stances, but its by far the best. If it were otherwise there would have been "Oh noes, krynch is rubbish" posts in the months after release, not "Oh noes, converts can't cope, please boost the most powerful training option" posts now.
You don't solve a problem of a stance being overpowered compared to the other stances by increasing the power of the most powerful one. Krynch is more powerful than it needs to be to fill its design niche, so it would be possible to tighten the restrictions on it. It would also be possible to boost the powers of other stances.
If you think krynch is the problem, you should be asking for tightened restrictions on its use.
If you think the problem is that monks in general are too weak, you should be asking for changes in other stances to bring them up to the same utility as krynch, or suggesting a new stance rather than trying to reinforce monks as krynch cookie cutters.
If the problem is actually that UAC monks dont work well in bigshot (or whatever the current lich hunting script is now), you should get the scripter to rewrite bigshot rather than asking for inappropriate design changes to monks so that they script hunt better with the existing general purpose hunting script.
I think the worst possible changes for monks would be those that reinforce already strong options like krynch.
>Open UAC monks are at a huge disadvantage compared to UAC ambushers and open swingers of many other styles, but if Krynch had a little more give when roaming a hunting ground, it would do a lot to even the field.
Players with no experience of playing high level monks are being outhunted by players with years of honing the tactics and training of their character and gear collections to match. Thats the way it should be. I don't believe anyone that has spent serious time honing their tactics and training is being outhunted by like level squares with basic gear. If anything, I suspect the reverse is happening and that its rather easier to advance a monk.
Monks have an advantage in swarms compared to other UAC users. My monk will attack critters that walk in on a fight, and get a pretty high rate of instant crit kills, in situations where my warrior or rogue would retreat. This is the advantage krynch is supposed to give monks, and its significant. Theres reasons that my monk can ask for harder bounties and complete them twice as fast as my warrior, and this is an important one.
The design way to get tiers from walking around is jab. If you find that it isn't good enough, then you should be looking for things like coup giving boosts to opening/lucky tier percentages as well as UAF (this really ought to happen, if it isn't already, because UAF bonuses are worth less to UAC users than AS boosts are to swingers). Find a way to make underutilised/underpowered options more attractive rather than expanding an existing one beyond the bounds of its credibility. Momentum isn't something that you carry around by stowing it in your cloak. Once you start roaming a hunting ground you aren't carrying your momentum any more.
Krynch is overpowered as it is currently implemented. It should be equally attractive to other stances, but its by far the best. If it were otherwise there would have been "Oh noes, krynch is rubbish" posts in the months after release, not "Oh noes, converts can't cope, please boost the most powerful training option" posts now.
You don't solve a problem of a stance being overpowered compared to the other stances by increasing the power of the most powerful one. Krynch is more powerful than it needs to be to fill its design niche, so it would be possible to tighten the restrictions on it. It would also be possible to boost the powers of other stances.
If you think krynch is the problem, you should be asking for tightened restrictions on its use.
If you think the problem is that monks in general are too weak, you should be asking for changes in other stances to bring them up to the same utility as krynch, or suggesting a new stance rather than trying to reinforce monks as krynch cookie cutters.
If the problem is actually that UAC monks dont work well in bigshot (or whatever the current lich hunting script is now), you should get the scripter to rewrite bigshot rather than asking for inappropriate design changes to monks so that they script hunt better with the existing general purpose hunting script.
I think the worst possible changes for monks would be those that reinforce already strong options like krynch.
>Open UAC monks are at a huge disadvantage compared to UAC ambushers and open swingers of many other styles, but if Krynch had a little more give when roaming a hunting ground, it would do a lot to even the field.
Players with no experience of playing high level monks are being outhunted by players with years of honing the tactics and training of their character and gear collections to match. Thats the way it should be. I don't believe anyone that has spent serious time honing their tactics and training is being outhunted by like level squares with basic gear. If anything, I suspect the reverse is happening and that its rather easier to advance a monk.
Monks have an advantage in swarms compared to other UAC users. My monk will attack critters that walk in on a fight, and get a pretty high rate of instant crit kills, in situations where my warrior or rogue would retreat. This is the advantage krynch is supposed to give monks, and its significant. Theres reasons that my monk can ask for harder bounties and complete them twice as fast as my warrior, and this is an important one.
The design way to get tiers from walking around is jab. If you find that it isn't good enough, then you should be looking for things like coup giving boosts to opening/lucky tier percentages as well as UAF (this really ought to happen, if it isn't already, because UAF bonuses are worth less to UAC users than AS boosts are to swingers). Find a way to make underutilised/underpowered options more attractive rather than expanding an existing one beyond the bounds of its credibility. Momentum isn't something that you carry around by stowing it in your cloak. Once you start roaming a hunting ground you aren't carrying your momentum any more.
>Krynch is overpowered as it is currently implemented. It should be equally attractive to other stances, but its by far the best. If it were otherwise there would have been "Oh noes, krynch is rubbish" posts in the months after release, not "Oh noes, converts can't cope, please boost the most powerful training option" posts now.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the officials are no longer the place where anything GS-related is discussed.
>If you think the problem is that monks in general are too weak, you should be asking for changes in other stances to bring them up to the same utility as krynch, or suggesting a new stance rather than trying to reinforce monks as krynch cookie cutters.
As a matter of fact, IHarmony and Slippery Mind are the stances most widely discussed these days. A lot of that is probably due to an increasing trend in "mutant" monks using weapon builds instead of UAC due to its inefficiency. Frankly, the other two combat martial stances would require serious overhauls to even merit discussion. Mongoose would have to be divorced from parries for it to ever compete (and don't get me started on how dreadful involuntary RT is), and I've suggested numerous times that Flurry be modified to use more than jabs, but that doesn't seem to be something that they'll consider. Right now, Krynch is the only combat option and it's not because it is overpowered, but rather because everything else is unusable. If, as you suggest, Krynch is meant to only be used in situations where creatures randomly enter your room during combat, then I would consider it to be lackluster and circumstantial as well. The Krynch timer should be increased to 15 seconds in order to make it worthwhile and the other stances should be improved as well.
>If the problem is actually that UAC monks dont work well in bigshot (or whatever the current lich hunting script is now), you should get the scripter to rewrite bigshot rather than asking for inappropriate design changes to monks so that they script hunt better with the existing general purpose hunting script.
I manually hunt my monk, thank you very much, and when people complain about UAC, it's about the inefficiency, not bigshot or other scripts.
>Players with no experience of playing high level monks are being outhunted by players with years of honing the tactics and training of their character and gear collections to match. Thats the way it should be. I don't believe anyone that has spent serious time honing their tactics and training is being outhunted by like level squares with basic gear. If anything, I suspect the reverse is happening and that its rather easier to advance a monk.
Yes, tell me more about how a monk can enter a new fight, feint, and one-shot/mstrike a creature. Until open UAC can do that, it is by definition less efficient than ranged, THW, TWC, or ambushing.
>Monks have an advantage in swarms compared to other UAC users. My monk will attack critters that walk in on a fight, and get a pretty high rate of instant crit kills, in situations where my warrior or rogue would retreat. This is the advantage krynch is supposed to give monks, and its significant. Theres reasons that my monk can ask for harder bounties and complete them twice as fast as my warrior, and this is an important one.
Well yes, monks with Krynch will beat another profession at open UAC hands down. Duh. But how does a monk with Krynch compare to a berserking THW warrior in a swarm? No contest.
>The design way to get tiers from walking around is jab. If you find that it isn't good enough, then you should be looking for things like coup giving boosts to opening/lucky tier percentages as well as UAF (this really ought to happen, if it isn't already, because UAF bonuses are worth less to UAC users than AS boosts are to swingers).
Starting every new combat at tier one is not good enough, no. Luckily we have the foundation of a mechanism to start on higher tiers. It's called Rolling Krynch Stance.
>Find a way to make underutilised/underpowered options more attractive rather than expanding an existing one beyond the bounds of its credibility. Momentum isn't something that you carry around by stowing it in your cloak. Once you start roaming a hunting ground you aren't carrying your momentum any more.
In the case of new systems like UAC, mechanics > RP. The system needs to be viable (and it is, just not as viable as other options). If the design intent is holding back its viability, change the design intent.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the officials are no longer the place where anything GS-related is discussed.
>If you think the problem is that monks in general are too weak, you should be asking for changes in other stances to bring them up to the same utility as krynch, or suggesting a new stance rather than trying to reinforce monks as krynch cookie cutters.
As a matter of fact, IHarmony and Slippery Mind are the stances most widely discussed these days. A lot of that is probably due to an increasing trend in "mutant" monks using weapon builds instead of UAC due to its inefficiency. Frankly, the other two combat martial stances would require serious overhauls to even merit discussion. Mongoose would have to be divorced from parries for it to ever compete (and don't get me started on how dreadful involuntary RT is), and I've suggested numerous times that Flurry be modified to use more than jabs, but that doesn't seem to be something that they'll consider. Right now, Krynch is the only combat option and it's not because it is overpowered, but rather because everything else is unusable. If, as you suggest, Krynch is meant to only be used in situations where creatures randomly enter your room during combat, then I would consider it to be lackluster and circumstantial as well. The Krynch timer should be increased to 15 seconds in order to make it worthwhile and the other stances should be improved as well.
>If the problem is actually that UAC monks dont work well in bigshot (or whatever the current lich hunting script is now), you should get the scripter to rewrite bigshot rather than asking for inappropriate design changes to monks so that they script hunt better with the existing general purpose hunting script.
I manually hunt my monk, thank you very much, and when people complain about UAC, it's about the inefficiency, not bigshot or other scripts.
>Players with no experience of playing high level monks are being outhunted by players with years of honing the tactics and training of their character and gear collections to match. Thats the way it should be. I don't believe anyone that has spent serious time honing their tactics and training is being outhunted by like level squares with basic gear. If anything, I suspect the reverse is happening and that its rather easier to advance a monk.
Yes, tell me more about how a monk can enter a new fight, feint, and one-shot/mstrike a creature. Until open UAC can do that, it is by definition less efficient than ranged, THW, TWC, or ambushing.
>Monks have an advantage in swarms compared to other UAC users. My monk will attack critters that walk in on a fight, and get a pretty high rate of instant crit kills, in situations where my warrior or rogue would retreat. This is the advantage krynch is supposed to give monks, and its significant. Theres reasons that my monk can ask for harder bounties and complete them twice as fast as my warrior, and this is an important one.
Well yes, monks with Krynch will beat another profession at open UAC hands down. Duh. But how does a monk with Krynch compare to a berserking THW warrior in a swarm? No contest.
>The design way to get tiers from walking around is jab. If you find that it isn't good enough, then you should be looking for things like coup giving boosts to opening/lucky tier percentages as well as UAF (this really ought to happen, if it isn't already, because UAF bonuses are worth less to UAC users than AS boosts are to swingers).
Starting every new combat at tier one is not good enough, no. Luckily we have the foundation of a mechanism to start on higher tiers. It's called Rolling Krynch Stance.
>Find a way to make underutilised/underpowered options more attractive rather than expanding an existing one beyond the bounds of its credibility. Momentum isn't something that you carry around by stowing it in your cloak. Once you start roaming a hunting ground you aren't carrying your momentum any more.
In the case of new systems like UAC, mechanics > RP. The system needs to be viable (and it is, just not as viable as other options). If the design intent is holding back its viability, change the design intent.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
>Yes, tell me more about how a monk can enter a new fight, feint, and one-shot/mstrike a creature. Until open UAC can do that, it is by definition less efficient than ranged, THW, TWC, or ambushing. -Me
To clarify, I'm not saying UAC should be a one-shot-kill everytime, I'm just pointing out the disparity.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
To clarify, I'm not saying UAC should be a one-shot-kill everytime, I'm just pointing out the disparity.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
>Finros, please consider extending the Krynch timer to 15 seconds.
RATHBONER is correct on the rationale in Krynch. It is intended for use when fighting multiple opponents at once, and not camping, which is why I shortened the timer from its original value to the current ten seconds. I removed the room restriction mainly to encourage "hot pursuit" of a fleeing creature, but I don't object to using it against an unrelated target if one is fast enough in finding a new foe. Just as the messaging indicates, the idea is that you use the momentum of your previous strike to gain an advantage in your next.
I did consider something akin to a two second window after the attack RT expires. I decided to err on the side of lag and go with the full ten second window, even though it does lead to situations where it isn't used quite as intended (such as jab, feint, other attack).
>I'm not sure if you're aware, but the officials are no longer the place where anything GS-related is discussed.
If you want to provide me with specific pointers to monk discussions you think that I should be cognizant of, I'd be happy to take a look.
However, in general, I'm reasonably happy with unarmed combat right now. It is slower than other combat styles -- as it was meant to be -- but it has other advantages. For example, an individual unarmed strike is often faster than the equivalent weapon swing would be. You can go up against spell tanked creatures where a melee combatant couldn't even hit the foe. What you can't do is put the UCS into "overdrive" the same way that you can do with melee. A melee user can spell tank and throw on haste, and spam "attack" until they're swimming in enemy blood. The UCS doesn't allow that by design (though even in the UCS, there are ways to approach that style with more work).
RATHBONER is correct on the rationale in Krynch. It is intended for use when fighting multiple opponents at once, and not camping, which is why I shortened the timer from its original value to the current ten seconds. I removed the room restriction mainly to encourage "hot pursuit" of a fleeing creature, but I don't object to using it against an unrelated target if one is fast enough in finding a new foe. Just as the messaging indicates, the idea is that you use the momentum of your previous strike to gain an advantage in your next.
I did consider something akin to a two second window after the attack RT expires. I decided to err on the side of lag and go with the full ten second window, even though it does lead to situations where it isn't used quite as intended (such as jab, feint, other attack).
>I'm not sure if you're aware, but the officials are no longer the place where anything GS-related is discussed.
If you want to provide me with specific pointers to monk discussions you think that I should be cognizant of, I'd be happy to take a look.
However, in general, I'm reasonably happy with unarmed combat right now. It is slower than other combat styles -- as it was meant to be -- but it has other advantages. For example, an individual unarmed strike is often faster than the equivalent weapon swing would be. You can go up against spell tanked creatures where a melee combatant couldn't even hit the foe. What you can't do is put the UCS into "overdrive" the same way that you can do with melee. A melee user can spell tank and throw on haste, and spam "attack" until they're swimming in enemy blood. The UCS doesn't allow that by design (though even in the UCS, there are ways to approach that style with more work).
Oh, don't forget about Sorcerers.
But yeah, it does sound like there is some issue here. I can see the arguments against changing it, but it sounds like tier-ups are too slow. The suggestion provided by Aluvius:
>1209 suggestion
>I'd like to suggest adding another component to this spell that could address some of the criticisms about the speed of tiering/UAC in general if not used to ambush from hiding.
>I think this spell should add a bonus to automatically tiering up similiar to that given by the various punch/kick/grapple masteries. The bonus could track directly with that of the UAF bonus currently given by the spell (seed 1 Mental Lore, Transformation). I'd suggest starting it at a +10% floor which with enough lore can get up to +23% at 91 ranks of ML,T (same as the UAF bonus).
Sounds about right. This way, UAC isn't approved across the board for other classes, and Monks get a bonus in it. Savants would too, but thats an argument for years from now.
But yeah, it does sound like there is some issue here. I can see the arguments against changing it, but it sounds like tier-ups are too slow. The suggestion provided by Aluvius:
>1209 suggestion
>I'd like to suggest adding another component to this spell that could address some of the criticisms about the speed of tiering/UAC in general if not used to ambush from hiding.
>I think this spell should add a bonus to automatically tiering up similiar to that given by the various punch/kick/grapple masteries. The bonus could track directly with that of the UAF bonus currently given by the spell (seed 1 Mental Lore, Transformation). I'd suggest starting it at a +10% floor which with enough lore can get up to +23% at 91 ranks of ML,T (same as the UAF bonus).
Sounds about right. This way, UAC isn't approved across the board for other classes, and Monks get a bonus in it. Savants would too, but thats an argument for years from now.
Another option would be to add a Jab Mastery cman. Take away the MM component of the other masteries and increase the auto tier bonus. That way we'd still have an incentive to open with jab, but we'd be tiering up quicker to good/excellent when combined with the high chance of jab giving an opening for a tier step.
Or heck if it was just a clone of the other UAC attack style masteries it would still probably be worth it for the 15% rank 3 bonus.
Open UAC just needs a bit of tweaking to tier a bit quicker is all. A modest increase would go a long way .. the system is almost perfect otherwise, definitely the most fun in the game. Its just that right now monks are behind ambushing UAC rogues/rangers and UAC bards when it comes to killing speed and we are behind UAC paladins/warriors when it comes to taking punishment in open UAC combat. We should at least be somewhere in the middle of those.
>It is slower than other combat styles -- as it was meant to be. -Finros
That's too bad. In the majority of cases, speed > power. If you can kill your target in 3 seconds with one weapon, why use a weapon that takes 5 (or in this case, 12)? Sounds like UAC might be a good backup style, but the power hunters would probably be better off with a ranged monk build (at least in later levels). Guess that makes it easier to choose a stance then, since krynch, mongoose and flurry aren't relevant to a ranged build.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
That's too bad. In the majority of cases, speed > power. If you can kill your target in 3 seconds with one weapon, why use a weapon that takes 5 (or in this case, 12)? Sounds like UAC might be a good backup style, but the power hunters would probably be better off with a ranged monk build (at least in later levels). Guess that makes it easier to choose a stance then, since krynch, mongoose and flurry aren't relevant to a ranged build.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
>What level is your monk and what combat gear does he wear Rathboner? My monk is fun but is by far the slowest killing and thus most vulnerable character I've played.
46. 4x gear. Most standard flares available for hands and feet and thats about it. (about 12M accumulated loot waiting to pay for something to be enhanced if I ever find gear with a look that I like)
UAC starts a combat slower, but finishes it faster because it gets favourable EBP, RT and crit randomisation compared to melee weapons.
You need a moderate number of levels to get the abilities to keep critters under control and DS can be tricky until then as well. However, you do get the abilities, and DS goes through the roof so you don't actually need to as much controlling as other squares would.
46. 4x gear. Most standard flares available for hands and feet and thats about it. (about 12M accumulated loot waiting to pay for something to be enhanced if I ever find gear with a look that I like)
UAC starts a combat slower, but finishes it faster because it gets favourable EBP, RT and crit randomisation compared to melee weapons.
You need a moderate number of levels to get the abilities to keep critters under control and DS can be tricky until then as well. However, you do get the abilities, and DS goes through the roof so you don't actually need to as much controlling as other squares would.
>It finishes combat slower too.
This isn't the case (unless you are uphunting). If you are finishing slower, you should adjust your tactics to take advantage of the faster RT, deadlier crits, and immunity to EBP, that UAC provides you with.
A UAC user that exploits the UAC features will be in a position to loot a dead foe faster than a weapon user because 3s is quicker than 5s, less blows that would normally kill are randomised into non-fatal crits, and it never gets dodged. The UAC is also stacks non-fatal crits into death crits, which weapons can't do. UAC crits at good position are about as deadly as weaponry, UAC crits at excellent walk all over weapon crits.
Play a UAC monk for 3 months and a million or two exp., so that you get thoroughly into the tactics, then go back to your weapon swinger. You'll suddenly realise just how slow normal combat is at finishing compared to the UAC. When you are used to weaponry, you tune out the effects of locations being critted out, critters stumbling blindly and somehow managing to dodge, getting that non fatal slash crit rather than the fatal puncture crit etc. etc. "Why are weapons so slow", you'll scream as your head shot crits out the head, the critter desperately parries your follow up to the neck and then you get a non-fatal wound to the chest on the third attempt. 15s down on the UAC and counting.
Maybe if Coase implements UAC bandits people will start realising (and complaining about) just how effective the UAC is at finishing off its targets. You'll be more scared of the brawling trained bandits than the crystal throwing claidh wielders once critters use the UAC.
The UAC is, by design, a lot harder to exploit against critters with levels on you, and you'll see distinct slowdowns at the upper end of the normal range. If like doing the sort of uphunting that's possible with AS, the UAC isn't going to work for you. Its calibrated pretty well against the AG range. Harder tasks are harder, but tiering only becomes impossible when you go off the top of the range.
This isn't the case (unless you are uphunting). If you are finishing slower, you should adjust your tactics to take advantage of the faster RT, deadlier crits, and immunity to EBP, that UAC provides you with.
A UAC user that exploits the UAC features will be in a position to loot a dead foe faster than a weapon user because 3s is quicker than 5s, less blows that would normally kill are randomised into non-fatal crits, and it never gets dodged. The UAC is also stacks non-fatal crits into death crits, which weapons can't do. UAC crits at good position are about as deadly as weaponry, UAC crits at excellent walk all over weapon crits.
Play a UAC monk for 3 months and a million or two exp., so that you get thoroughly into the tactics, then go back to your weapon swinger. You'll suddenly realise just how slow normal combat is at finishing compared to the UAC. When you are used to weaponry, you tune out the effects of locations being critted out, critters stumbling blindly and somehow managing to dodge, getting that non fatal slash crit rather than the fatal puncture crit etc. etc. "Why are weapons so slow", you'll scream as your head shot crits out the head, the critter desperately parries your follow up to the neck and then you get a non-fatal wound to the chest on the third attempt. 15s down on the UAC and counting.
Maybe if Coase implements UAC bandits people will start realising (and complaining about) just how effective the UAC is at finishing off its targets. You'll be more scared of the brawling trained bandits than the crystal throwing claidh wielders once critters use the UAC.
The UAC is, by design, a lot harder to exploit against critters with levels on you, and you'll see distinct slowdowns at the upper end of the normal range. If like doing the sort of uphunting that's possible with AS, the UAC isn't going to work for you. Its calibrated pretty well against the AG range. Harder tasks are harder, but tiering only becomes impossible when you go off the top of the range.
>Hunting with a group though and UAC efficiency nose dives if you aren't hiding and ambushing.
My observations match this.
My UAC rogue is fairly crummy in large group militia/invasion/warcamp situations (and always has been), but my monk does fine in a group of two. With just one weapon user in my group, I find they whiff the kill often enough for me to get a decent share, sometimes its me pulling my punches to give them a chance to land a blow at all.
My observations match this.
My UAC rogue is fairly crummy in large group militia/invasion/warcamp situations (and always has been), but my monk does fine in a group of two. With just one weapon user in my group, I find they whiff the kill often enough for me to get a decent share, sometimes its me pulling my punches to give them a chance to land a blow at all.
I don't know where you get this idea of how hunts go but let me tell you what really happens:
THW: 1207 -> ambush head/neck (6), dead.
Polearms: 1207 -> look at it, dead.
TWC: 1207 -> mstrike (6), more than likely dead. Another strike (5), if not, dead.
Archery: eye shot (4), dead.
UAC: jab (3), jab (3), 1207, punch head (3), dead.
The only one that even comes close to UAC in speed is TWC. THW and Archery blow it out of the water. This is with my monk, level 60, and trying out virtually every combat method available (other than hurling) to my monk. With each style I went full in - punch mastery/krynch on UAC, etc. That's the worst part! For UAC to even become effective I have to spend points on punch mastery AND krynch. With THW I free up those CMANs and get to pick slippery mind instead.
Now, that said, I'm probably going to stay UAC because I think it's cool and fun but short of ambushing you will be less efficient than every other available hunting method (except sword/board, but that doesn't count).
THW: 1207 -> ambush head/neck (6), dead.
Polearms: 1207 -> look at it, dead.
TWC: 1207 -> mstrike (6), more than likely dead. Another strike (5), if not, dead.
Archery: eye shot (4), dead.
UAC: jab (3), jab (3), 1207, punch head (3), dead.
The only one that even comes close to UAC in speed is TWC. THW and Archery blow it out of the water. This is with my monk, level 60, and trying out virtually every combat method available (other than hurling) to my monk. With each style I went full in - punch mastery/krynch on UAC, etc. That's the worst part! For UAC to even become effective I have to spend points on punch mastery AND krynch. With THW I free up those CMANs and get to pick slippery mind instead.
Now, that said, I'm probably going to stay UAC because I think it's cool and fun but short of ambushing you will be less efficient than every other available hunting method (except sword/board, but that doesn't count).
At level 27 with 4x flaring gloves/boots my experience is different than yours Rathboner. I'm not uphunting, I stick to AG bounties. I also rarely have 3s rt unless its a jab, because without aiming punches for the head it takes probably 4-5 UAC attacks on average to kill something. Aiming for the head I can get lucky on a jab with a punch opening and kill something in 2 attacks, but on average I'd say 3 at least (1 jab, 2 other attacks, at least 1 aimed).
And frankly those numbers are generous, its not unknown for me to use 5-6 UAC attacks if jab doesn't give an opening the first time or two (unlucky but it happens) or if I can't reach something's head (usually it has to be immune for 1207 for that case). This is on top of using 1-2 feints and 1207 as a setup.
I've been hunting with monks between 1-25 since they were released. I made 3 of different races and leveled them until I could convert, plus I fixskilled my warrior over to UAC before conversion and hunted extensively with him. Does it get easier? Because frankly I have my tactics down stone cold. The only thing I could see speeding up things is getting better at aiming via level/CM.
The only style I've tried as slow as UAC is using ranged weapons before 40ish when I can't reliably hit the eye with my arrows.
I do agree that UAC is slower, overall, but not always significantly so with the right tier chances since you can crit kill with punches and kicks on tier 2. Ideally, combat with my warrior would be:
Melee: feint, ambush head(+9 seconds)
UAC: feint, jab, punch head (+10 seconds)
This is just the best possible situation for both combat styles, though. Obviously both Melee and UAC have variables like crit randomization, e/b/p, ambush location, tier up chance etc. However, even though you do have reduced crit randomization the nature of UAC crits and tier up chances limits the speed of the combat style overall. If you only tiered up on punches and kicks it would be different, but if you get grapples or jabs as your tier up chance you are going to be atleast +3-4 seconds slower than a weapon. Realistically, combat can be like this:
Feint(+3), Jab(no tier, +3), Jab(grapple tier, +3), Grapple(+4), punch head(+4)
Thats something that weapon users dont have to deal with. Perhaps another benefit of punch/kick/grapple mastery would be to increase the chances your openings are for your respective mastery? For those with multiple masteries perhaps there could be a toggle similar to the AIM verb or something similar. IMO, that would definitely improve the combat effectiveness/speed for open UAC without changing the spirit of the combat style too much while still allowing for some flexibility. Like everyone here I love UAC and have a bunch of fun with it. It doesnt really need to be tweaked much to be a fantastic alternative to the existing combat styles.
Melee: feint, ambush head(+9 seconds)
UAC: feint, jab, punch head (+10 seconds)
This is just the best possible situation for both combat styles, though. Obviously both Melee and UAC have variables like crit randomization, e/b/p, ambush location, tier up chance etc. However, even though you do have reduced crit randomization the nature of UAC crits and tier up chances limits the speed of the combat style overall. If you only tiered up on punches and kicks it would be different, but if you get grapples or jabs as your tier up chance you are going to be atleast +3-4 seconds slower than a weapon. Realistically, combat can be like this:
Feint(+3), Jab(no tier, +3), Jab(grapple tier, +3), Grapple(+4), punch head(+4)
Thats something that weapon users dont have to deal with. Perhaps another benefit of punch/kick/grapple mastery would be to increase the chances your openings are for your respective mastery? For those with multiple masteries perhaps there could be a toggle similar to the AIM verb or something similar. IMO, that would definitely improve the combat effectiveness/speed for open UAC without changing the spirit of the combat style too much while still allowing for some flexibility. Like everyone here I love UAC and have a bunch of fun with it. It doesnt really need to be tweaked much to be a fantastic alternative to the existing combat styles.
>Does it get easier?
Yes. Much easier. It will depend just how you train, but my sticky patch was 20-25 and then it just got easier and easier. All sorts of things move fairly swiftly in your favor. Redux, aiming skill, spell buffs, mana for 1207, and it was also around then that I picked up my first flaring gloves and 4x robes and mastered Voln.
>And frankly those numbers are generous, its not unknown for me to use 5-6 UAC attacks if jab doesn't give an opening the first time or two (unlucky but it happens) or if I can't reach something's head (usually it has to be immune for 1207 for that case).
I'm not saying the UAC is faster overall, I'm saying once you are in a position to kill, its faster than the other melee styles. Krynch can get you there faster, but otherwise UAC is going to be slower, and has the potential to be a lot slower if you are unlucky with tiering openings. When going for the killing blow its the other way round, weapons are slower, and have the potential to be much slower if you are unlucky with EBP and crit randomisations. Pick a case where you get lucky with the UAC setup and unlucky with the weapon kill shot, and the UAC wins hands down.
Overall I reckon its pretty much what Finros says it is.
>This is on top of using 1-2 feints and 1207 as a setup.
I hardly ever use both feint and 1207 on the same critter. If the critter isn't immune to 1207 I don't use feint any more. I used it a fair amount levels 25-35, but I've been considering unlearning it recently. If I was really tight for CMan points, I would, but since I have stopped training Cman because there isn't anything I particularly want to use the the points on, I keep it for the occasional 1207 immune casting critter.
Critters almost always go to offensive stance to stand up. Feint usually just wastes time. Warriors get enough bonuses on the feint roll to use it to control as well as stance critters, but monks don't. I jab and hope I get lucky while I wait, or pick on its friend while I wait if there's more than one of them.
Yes. Much easier. It will depend just how you train, but my sticky patch was 20-25 and then it just got easier and easier. All sorts of things move fairly swiftly in your favor. Redux, aiming skill, spell buffs, mana for 1207, and it was also around then that I picked up my first flaring gloves and 4x robes and mastered Voln.
>And frankly those numbers are generous, its not unknown for me to use 5-6 UAC attacks if jab doesn't give an opening the first time or two (unlucky but it happens) or if I can't reach something's head (usually it has to be immune for 1207 for that case).
I'm not saying the UAC is faster overall, I'm saying once you are in a position to kill, its faster than the other melee styles. Krynch can get you there faster, but otherwise UAC is going to be slower, and has the potential to be a lot slower if you are unlucky with tiering openings. When going for the killing blow its the other way round, weapons are slower, and have the potential to be much slower if you are unlucky with EBP and crit randomisations. Pick a case where you get lucky with the UAC setup and unlucky with the weapon kill shot, and the UAC wins hands down.
Overall I reckon its pretty much what Finros says it is.
>This is on top of using 1-2 feints and 1207 as a setup.
I hardly ever use both feint and 1207 on the same critter. If the critter isn't immune to 1207 I don't use feint any more. I used it a fair amount levels 25-35, but I've been considering unlearning it recently. If I was really tight for CMan points, I would, but since I have stopped training Cman because there isn't anything I particularly want to use the the points on, I keep it for the occasional 1207 immune casting critter.
Critters almost always go to offensive stance to stand up. Feint usually just wastes time. Warriors get enough bonuses on the feint roll to use it to control as well as stance critters, but monks don't. I jab and hope I get lucky while I wait, or pick on its friend while I wait if there's more than one of them.
>I'm not saying the UAC is faster overall, I'm saying once you are in a position to kill, its faster than the other melee styles.
It's the time that it takes to get into "a position to kill" that we're all complaining about. Yes, once you're at tier 3, it's easy to kill something. No, we do not believe that the time it takes for monks to get to tier 3 on a fresh target is reasonable. Yes, EBP and crit randomization can slow down a THW user. No, taking a second shot with a THW still doesn't take longer than an average UAC fight.
>Pick a case where you get lucky with the UAC setup and unlucky with the weapon kill shot, and the UAC wins hands down.
What kind of argument is that? Comparing one system's worst case to another system's best case is meaningless. Now if we compare open UAC's best case to THW's, you're looking at jab (+3s), lucky tier up T2 (yes, I'm even adding a lucky tier up), punch opportunity, T3 punch head (+4s) = 7 seconds. Alternatively, you could go jab (+3s), punch opportunity, T2 punch head (+4s) with a lucky roll = 7 seconds. If you compare that to a THW head ambush at 6 seconds, it might look pretty similar until you look at just how many times you have to get lucky in the UAC progression to get a 7 second kill when the THW only really has to worry about a ~15% chance of EBP--and heck, if you can achieve a rank 9 to the head with a maul, you don't even need to worry about crit randomization at all.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
It's the time that it takes to get into "a position to kill" that we're all complaining about. Yes, once you're at tier 3, it's easy to kill something. No, we do not believe that the time it takes for monks to get to tier 3 on a fresh target is reasonable. Yes, EBP and crit randomization can slow down a THW user. No, taking a second shot with a THW still doesn't take longer than an average UAC fight.
>Pick a case where you get lucky with the UAC setup and unlucky with the weapon kill shot, and the UAC wins hands down.
What kind of argument is that? Comparing one system's worst case to another system's best case is meaningless. Now if we compare open UAC's best case to THW's, you're looking at jab (+3s), lucky tier up T2 (yes, I'm even adding a lucky tier up), punch opportunity, T3 punch head (+4s) = 7 seconds. Alternatively, you could go jab (+3s), punch opportunity, T2 punch head (+4s) with a lucky roll = 7 seconds. If you compare that to a THW head ambush at 6 seconds, it might look pretty similar until you look at just how many times you have to get lucky in the UAC progression to get a 7 second kill when the THW only really has to worry about a ~15% chance of EBP--and heck, if you can achieve a rank 9 to the head with a maul, you don't even need to worry about crit randomization at all.
Droit
Speaking to you, Ceyrin asks, "Do you spontaneously come back to life when you die?"
Speaking to you, Ceyrin says, "Because I do."
You say, "Yes. I have a condition called Annoraxia.""
Messing around with my build and I dropped physical fitness and dodge from 3x down to 2x and put all those points into hiding/stalking and ambush and my kill speed jumped up dramatically. I have to say this doesn't sit well with me though, monks shouldn't have to hide and ambush in order to tier up faster. With this build I am practically guaranteed to open up with tier 2 right from the start. The rogue profession has an innate bonus to hiding, why can't monks have an innate bonus to tiering up? A monk attacking from the open should have a higher chance of tiering up than a rogue using UAC from hiding.
>why can't monks have an innate bonus to tiering up? A monk attacking from the open should have a higher chance of tiering up than a rogue using UAC from hiding.
I do think the UAC masteries should have been left as monk only. The monk's professional advantage was substantial at release but was heavily nerfed in the post-release tweaks. The design mistake was in Voln. Smite shouldn't have been tied to the UAC, but because it was monk's UAC advantage had to be nerfed to make smite reasonable for other professions too.
There's still a few things monks can do that others can't (e.g. dragonclaw flares is a profession advantage that can't be countered by anything any other profession can do with UAC) but it doesn't come close to matching profession advantages that the other classes get.
As for an innate tiering bonus for monks, how do you know its not there already? No one has done nearly enough controlled testing to be sure that there isn't a modest professional bonus already built in somewhere. All there is so far is anecdotes reeking of confirmation bias.
>With this build I am practically guaranteed to open up with tier 2 right from the start.
Hiding takes time, and you could have used that time for a jab. For a monk, I dont think there is much gain. You get defensive advantages which open up tactical opportunities, but pay the TPs for that. 2x dodge in order to hide may not seem so smart when a critter sniffs you out and throws a fireball at you.
Hiding with shadow mastery does give the rogue an unfair advantage though. There isn't anything a monk can do to compensate for the faster RT the rogue is eventually able to get.
I think the underlying tier rates are pretty much the same for jab and ambush, but pushdown biasses it towards ambush when the critter isn't stanced.
I do think the UAC masteries should have been left as monk only. The monk's professional advantage was substantial at release but was heavily nerfed in the post-release tweaks. The design mistake was in Voln. Smite shouldn't have been tied to the UAC, but because it was monk's UAC advantage had to be nerfed to make smite reasonable for other professions too.
There's still a few things monks can do that others can't (e.g. dragonclaw flares is a profession advantage that can't be countered by anything any other profession can do with UAC) but it doesn't come close to matching profession advantages that the other classes get.
As for an innate tiering bonus for monks, how do you know its not there already? No one has done nearly enough controlled testing to be sure that there isn't a modest professional bonus already built in somewhere. All there is so far is anecdotes reeking of confirmation bias.
>With this build I am practically guaranteed to open up with tier 2 right from the start.
Hiding takes time, and you could have used that time for a jab. For a monk, I dont think there is much gain. You get defensive advantages which open up tactical opportunities, but pay the TPs for that. 2x dodge in order to hide may not seem so smart when a critter sniffs you out and throws a fireball at you.
Hiding with shadow mastery does give the rogue an unfair advantage though. There isn't anything a monk can do to compensate for the faster RT the rogue is eventually able to get.
I think the underlying tier rates are pretty much the same for jab and ambush, but pushdown biasses it towards ambush when the critter isn't stanced.
>What kind of argument is that?
Its a riposte.
You propose that THW can beat UAC under conditions favorable to THW and that this is unfair. I respond that UAC can beat THW under conditions favorable to UAC and that this shows balance.
You state that systems known to be broken are more efficient than UAC under the conditions in which they are known to be broken and that this shows UAC needs boosts. I counter that what it actually shows is that mauls are a bad design that should have been strangled at birth and if UAC can't compete with a maul post cap (and the maul design is broken by level 50 let alone post-cap), that is actually evidence of good design in the UAC. Argue for mauls to be fixed rather than the UAC to be broken if you want them brought into balance with one another.
If you want to make a telling argument about how bad the UAC is, show how a UAC monk can't compete with a sword/board warrior at level 50. I think the monk has trouble competing in the tertiary area, but not otherwise.
I am confident that players do not understand how to properly exploit the UAC yet, and that even so it works as effectively under design conditions as other combat modes do. I am sure that when I find out exactly how crits are calculated there will be another lever I can exploit to be even more effective.
I get 30-35k out of XXX with a UAC monk. I don't often beat 25k on other characters. I collect bounties at about double the rate of my next most prolific bounty hunter. Part of it is down to LOG, a lot of it is down to monks being so shallow that there's nothing to do except powerhunt but it is also down to real advantages the UAC has over weapon systems.
Its a riposte.
You propose that THW can beat UAC under conditions favorable to THW and that this is unfair. I respond that UAC can beat THW under conditions favorable to UAC and that this shows balance.
You state that systems known to be broken are more efficient than UAC under the conditions in which they are known to be broken and that this shows UAC needs boosts. I counter that what it actually shows is that mauls are a bad design that should have been strangled at birth and if UAC can't compete with a maul post cap (and the maul design is broken by level 50 let alone post-cap), that is actually evidence of good design in the UAC. Argue for mauls to be fixed rather than the UAC to be broken if you want them brought into balance with one another.
If you want to make a telling argument about how bad the UAC is, show how a UAC monk can't compete with a sword/board warrior at level 50. I think the monk has trouble competing in the tertiary area, but not otherwise.
I am confident that players do not understand how to properly exploit the UAC yet, and that even so it works as effectively under design conditions as other combat modes do. I am sure that when I find out exactly how crits are calculated there will be another lever I can exploit to be even more effective.
I get 30-35k out of XXX with a UAC monk. I don't often beat 25k on other characters. I collect bounties at about double the rate of my next most prolific bounty hunter. Part of it is down to LOG, a lot of it is down to monks being so shallow that there's nothing to do except powerhunt but it is also down to real advantages the UAC has over weapon systems.
