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I know that large, "unwieldy" weapons are difficult to aim. This worst of them allegedly being lances and awl-pikes. I had assumed this meant the base RT of a weapon was a good indicator of how difficult it would be to aim.
Does anyone know otherwise? Perhaps ALL polearms are penalized?
I picked up a javelin (4 base rt) and started stabbing stuff, and couldn't aim it for the life of me. Even got a few parries. This was a 24 paladin vs. 20 warcats. I don't recall warcats being small, or difficult to aim at. Maybe that was it, though.
I understand there are other factors, training, target critter, injuries, aim location, whatever. Just trusting that I've covered those to the degree that I succeed with comparable weapons, can anyone tell me if they know or have heard of testing on javelins' melee aiming ability? Are all polearms inherently difficult to aim, even pilums?
-Tibby, who wants to stab things in the eyes
In general the base RT is an indication of a weapon being easier or more difficult to aim but it isn't entirely conclusive. The design of a weapon is very important also. Picture what the weapon really looks like and how it functions in combat compared to others in its class and you can usually make a fairly educated guess as to how much easier or harder it will be to aim. Compare a javelin to a pilum using all the above info (and looking at the website).
Zyllah
p.s. At level 24 lack of skill training can have a large affect on success or lack thereof, especially keeping in mind that eyes are a very difficult target. My level 19 ranger singled in CM and ambush still has trouble with just legs. ;)
Zyllah
p.s. At level 24 lack of skill training can have a large affect on success or lack thereof, especially keeping in mind that eyes are a very difficult target. My level 19 ranger singled in CM and ambush still has trouble with just legs. ;)
Thanks for the response, Zyl.
My only extensive experience with open aiming was also a ranger, but that was in GS3. She singled CM and ambush and was consistently legging steel golems with one of those woodsman's hatchets at 19 back then.
Of course, hatchets are slower (5 base RT) than javelins (4 base RT), but steel golems are huge, so probably easy to aim at.
My paladin, being 1x in paladin base spells, and constantly using 1611, is essentially a full 1.5x in CM, but 0 ranks in ambush. I'm just really hoping my number of ranks outweigh my target's level, so that eventually (sooner rather than later?) I can aim reliably.
-Tibby, still wanting to stab stuff in the eye
My only extensive experience with open aiming was also a ranger, but that was in GS3. She singled CM and ambush and was consistently legging steel golems with one of those woodsman's hatchets at 19 back then.
Of course, hatchets are slower (5 base RT) than javelins (4 base RT), but steel golems are huge, so probably easy to aim at.
My paladin, being 1x in paladin base spells, and constantly using 1611, is essentially a full 1.5x in CM, but 0 ranks in ambush. I'm just really hoping my number of ranks outweigh my target's level, so that eventually (sooner rather than later?) I can aim reliably.
-Tibby, still wanting to stab stuff in the eye
Javelins are wierd... I remember I found a rhimar javelin at the end of GS3 when the treasure hopper was cranked up - it inspects as a thrown weapon. But I also have come across javelins inspected as polearms.. they really are odd.
Xatier
Richard the Mayor of a Little Village up the Coast "I'm a Bearlock now."
Xatier
Richard the Mayor of a Little Village up the Coast "I'm a Bearlock now."
>You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!
<twitch> Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU...for bringing that commercial top-of-mind for probably the next week and a half... <sigh> [/sarcasm]
>Javelins are wierd... I remember I found a rhimar javelin at the end of GS3 when the treasure hopper was cranked up - it inspects as a thrown weapon. But I also have come across javelins inspected as polearms.. they really are odd.
Like naginatas. Some used to inspect as actual naginatas, others as halberds. They were all fixed to read as naginatas.
~Imaera's Favorite...who now has peanut butter in his chocolate
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing.
<twitch> Thank you, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU...for bringing that commercial top-of-mind for probably the next week and a half... <sigh> [/sarcasm]
>Javelins are wierd... I remember I found a rhimar javelin at the end of GS3 when the treasure hopper was cranked up - it inspects as a thrown weapon. But I also have come across javelins inspected as polearms.. they really are odd.
Like naginatas. Some used to inspect as actual naginatas, others as halberds. They were all fixed to read as naginatas.
~Imaera's Favorite...who now has peanut butter in his chocolate
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing.
Well I'll be...
>inspect jav
You carefully inspect your mithglin javelin.
After a careful inspection you determine that a well-balanced mithglin javelin requires skill in thrown weapons to use effectively.
It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of mithglin.
>throw jav at vel
You can't throw that here.
>throw jav
You can't throw that here.
>
A velnalin snorts as she slowly backs away.
>att vel
You thrust with a well-balanced mithglin javelin at a velnalin!
AS: +189 vs DS: +32 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +14 = +199
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Elbow punctured, oh what pain!
The velnalin collapses to the ground, emits a final sigh, and dies.
~Imaera's Favorite
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing (even with throw weapons...)
>inspect jav
You carefully inspect your mithglin javelin.
After a careful inspection you determine that a well-balanced mithglin javelin requires skill in thrown weapons to use effectively.
It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of mithglin.
>throw jav at vel
You can't throw that here.
>throw jav
You can't throw that here.
>
A velnalin snorts as she slowly backs away.
>att vel
You thrust with a well-balanced mithglin javelin at a velnalin!
AS: +189 vs DS: +32 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +14 = +199
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Elbow punctured, oh what pain!
The velnalin collapses to the ground, emits a final sigh, and dies.
~Imaera's Favorite
~Polepaths don't go hunting...Polepaths go killing (even with throw weapons...)
You might want to try using the HURL verb to throw the javelin.
Gretchen
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Gretchen
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
It's "hurl <target>", in the same manner that you would "attack <target>".
So in this case, "hurl velnalin".
So in this case, "hurl velnalin".
| Voraviel | "They [demons] are only vulnerable to 7x weapons, and--" |
| Krakii | "8x." |
| Voraviel | "Isn't it 7x?" |
| Krakii | "Pretty sure it's 8x." |
| Voraviel | "Hell, I'm the designer and I'll go with what you said." |
I could be wrong about this since I've never used one, but I think javelins are a bit of an odd weapon in that you can use them with either polearm training or thrown weapon training. They started out as a polearm class weapon and then were changed to be under the thrown weapon category.
And yeah my understanding is that in design they are very similar to a pilum, but that a pilum is shorter and more appropriate for closer fighting.
Zyllah
And yeah my understanding is that in design they are very similar to a pilum, but that a pilum is shorter and more appropriate for closer fighting.
Zyllah
Technically, a pilum was rather heavy, with a triangular head designed to pierce armor or shield. Some versions also had a very soft iron neck; it was designed to penetrate an enemy shield when thrown, and then bend at the neck. The pilum was then stuck in the shield. This would encumber the foe so that they often had to drop the shield in mid combat.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
A pilum should work the same as any normal polearm. However, a one handed spear or trident will work much better if you want to kill anything with it.
Menos
AIM: GS4Menos
>Rightly to be great
>Is not to stir without great argument,
>But greatly to find quarrel in a straw
>When honour's at the stake.
Menos
AIM: GS4Menos
>Rightly to be great
>Is not to stir without great argument,
>But greatly to find quarrel in a straw
>When honour's at the stake.
Yeah, but the base RT of javelins and pilums appeal to more unique character concepts. Additionally, the ability to reliably aim a weapon that only punctures can be neat for those eye crits.
Doesn't matter now, I'm migrating to blunt weapons. I was willing to spend the extra TPs on polearms even if not taking advantage of the heavy hitters, for the uniqueness factor and conceptual appeal, but I didn't wanna shoot myself in the foot that badly.
Thanks, all, for the discussion.
-Tibby
Doesn't matter now, I'm migrating to blunt weapons. I was willing to spend the extra TPs on polearms even if not taking advantage of the heavy hitters, for the uniqueness factor and conceptual appeal, but I didn't wanna shoot myself in the foot that badly.
Thanks, all, for the discussion.
-Tibby
Don't get me wrong, I love polearms. But my paladin is just not the character to do it with. Besides, I've played many, many pole characters in the past. Even before it became as viable as it is now, I just liked the concept, and disliked the idea of being "another claidh swinger". So they just don't excite me like they used to. I thought it would be neat to go for 1handed poles in conjunction with focused mstrike and aiming, but a paladin has a hard time pulling off the training for all that. 1x MOC: 5/2, 1x Ambush: 4/5, 1x CM: 5/4 or 5/2. Poles are 15/6 to double, as opposed to 12/6 for 2handers and 9/3 for OHB or OHE, or 12/3 for brawling. As a semi, paladins have other stuff to spend on. Like most paladins, I ignored the .75x recommendation and went for 1x, so thats 0/27 per level, with 0/5 harness power and I really want some lores for 0/7. And for physical points, I could put those extra physical into tripling armor use, since I'm getting hit in warcamps with or without a shield, and AU will give me more immediate returns than the redux from physical training (which I'd like to triple later for stamina/redux).
Long story, but basically polearms are costly enough, without adding shield use to the equation. I'll save that training path for when I reactivate my old warrior and fixskills him. He can afford it, and besides, he's an elf so he'll be fun with any polearm.
Tibby, who also feels sad leaving poles behind
Long story, but basically polearms are costly enough, without adding shield use to the equation. I'll save that training path for when I reactivate my old warrior and fixskills him. He can afford it, and besides, he's an elf so he'll be fun with any polearm.
Tibby, who also feels sad leaving poles behind
