Effect of kneeling and offensive stance on skinning on 01/22/2013 02:19 AM CST
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When Goat flipped over to level 52 I dutifully gave him another rank each of FA and Survival and set about to establish a baseline again, and then test the effect of kneeling, and of skinning in offensive stance. This time around I focused on just lesser and greater faeroths; vor'taz raw data is included for completeness but is insufficient to draw any conclusions.

lesser faeroths
criteria standing, guarded kneeling, guarded standing, offensive
skin success 98% 97% 98%
value 1033 1023 937
magnificient 34% 61% 44%
exceptional+ 84% 91% 89%

greater faeroths
criteria standing, guarded kneeling, guarded standing, offensive
skin success 95% 92% 92%
value 1010 1028 946
magnificient 14% 16% 18%
exceptional+ 49% 62% 53%

n=~100 for trials that fed the above tables

Conclusions
The data suggest that kneeling improves skin quality. The increase in skin quality without an increase in value suggests to me that the kneeling trials suffered some downward loot pressure from the earlier non-kneeling trials.

The data suggest (weakly) the offensive stance improves quality. The offensive stance trials came last, and so were subject to the strongest downward loot pressure, which may again explain in increase in skin quality but a decrease in skin value.

Bonus findings
With 64 ranks FA, 59 ranks survival, and 11 ranks trading, I appraised these skins successfully (getting a quality and value estimate rather than 'decent shape') in 272 of 383 attempts (71%).

It appears that estimated value assumes sale at a shop with no racial bias against the player, and also ignores trading skill. Goat has enough trading skill to pick up 6% higher prices. Accounting for that makes the average faeroth estimates accurate within a few percent (in aggregate).

I suspect that skinning is not an open roll - I have tracked 150+ vor'taz attempts and have never gotten a magnificient horn. I suppose it's also possible that magnificant horns become shiny vor'taz horns instead (imbeddibles that do not appraise as skins).

Future Research
I'm looking forward to setting this aside to go back to normal hunting, rather than playing like a robot. Still, I plan to eventually run trials on something with skins from the hand, and look at the effects of limb disrupting both hands before killing.

In-depth data follow

Baseline
level 52: don't kneel, and skin from guarded stance. skin with knife in left hand. Sometimes wounded for a few skins, in locations that are not thought to affect skinning (e.g. back minor). For one or two attempts, had a minor that is thought to affect skinning (eye, hand, etc). Unfortunate, but should not impact things too badly.

Lesser Faeroth
killed 100
skinned 98
botched 2
cumul_value 101315
avg skin value 1033
avg kill value 1013

Lesser Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 2 375
poor 1 200
fair 4 418
fine 10 495
exceptional 13 830
outstanding 16 1034
superb 20 1035
magnificent 33 1145
avg est value for all skin qualities: 943

Greater Faeroth
killed 100
skinned 98
botched 5
cumul_value 98992
avg skin value 1010
avg kill value 989

Greater Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 2 825
poor 5 770
fair 22 747
fine 21 835
exceptional 8 762
outstanding 12 954
superb 14 1092
magnificent 14 1325
avg est value for all skin qualities: 927

Vor'taz
killed 17
skinned 14
botched 3
cumul_value 5798
skinned, shiny 2
avg skin value 414
avg kill value 341

Vor'taz
quality count estimated value
crude 2 350
poor 5 285
fair 2 287
fine 1 750
exceptional 1 750
outstanding 1 1150
superb 0
magnificent 0
avg est value for all skin qualities: 445


Like baseline, but kneeling

Lesser Faeroth
killed 100
skinned 97
botched 3
cumul_value 99252
avg skin value 1023
avg kill value 992

Lesser Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 1 400
poor 0
fair 3 216
fine 6 412
exceptional 11 827
outstanding 6 800
superb 12 1050
magnificent 59 1060
avg est value for all skin qualities: 944

Greater Faeroth
killed 98
skinned 93
botched 8
cumul_value 95692
avg skin value 1028
avg kill value 976

Greater Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 1 300
poor 1 1350
fair 22 700
fine 9 722
exceptional 14 805
outstanding 11 1113
superb 18 1247
magnificent 15 1206
avg est value for all skin qualities: 962

Vor'taz
killed 11
skinned 10
botched 1
cumul_value 4984
skinned, shiny 1
avg skin value 498
avg kill value 453

Vor'taz
quality count estimated value
crude 3 375
poor 0
fair 3 358
fine 0
exceptional 0
outstanding 2 875
superb 1 550
magnificent 0
avg est value for all skin qualities: 500



Like baseline, but in offensive

Lesser Faeroth
killed 100
skinned 98
botched 2
cumul_value 91860
avg skin value 937
avg kill value 918

Lesser Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 1 350
poor 2 237
fair 2 412
fine 6 616
exceptional 14 716
outstanding 15 766
superb 14 1046
magnificent 44 945
avg est value for all skin qualities: 848


Greater Faeroth
killed 101
skinned 92
botched 8
cumul_value 87108
avg skin value 946
avg kill value 862

Greater Faeroth
quality count estimated value
crude 1 650
poor 4 631
fair 24 702
fine 15 790
exceptional 11 763
outstanding 9 1038
superb 11 950
magnificent 18 1119
avg est value for all skin qualities: 862


Vor'taz
killed 14
skinned 11
botched 2
cumul_value 5928
skinned, shiny 1
avg skin value 538
avg kill value 423

Vor'taz
quality count estimated value
crude 3 500
poor 3 358
fair 3 450
fine 2 1000
exceptional 0
outstanding 0
superb 0
magnificent 0
avg est value for all skin qualities: 538

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Re: Effect of kneeling and offensive stance on skinning on 01/22/2013 05:40 AM CST
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Skinning baseline is training against critter level, not your level. You shouldn't train when you level if you want to keep data comparable. A couple ranks at your level is well within the noise though, you'd need to be doing n=10,000 sample sizes to see a significant effect from it.

I too have never seen a positive open roll and I must have skinned around a thousand rats before getting to a high enough level to get a magnificent off them.

I am not sure if you had enough training for your quality appraisals to be 100% accurate. Did you run any tests on that or just accept the first quality you got?
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Re: Effect of kneeling and offensive stance on skinning on 01/22/2013 11:23 PM CST
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I set a new baseline once I added the extra skin rank and extra surv rank, so that does not mess with these three trials.

Individual appraisals were somewhat inaccurate (based on spot tests of appraising the same skin multiple times). However, they were very accurate in aggregate. As such, imperfect appraisals are additional noise rather than bias. Note that I didn't draw any real conclusions off of value appraisals - the stuff in the charts up top are actual sales prices.
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