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I have two bards. One is a brawling build, almost 43rd level. She's a great hunter and I enjoy playing her. But my other bard is closing in on 50, and I'm asking myself, do I really NEED two bards? Granted, they are radically different builds. But how much fun would suddenly having a 43rd level monk be? Plus, I love diversity. But it's a really, really tough decision. Not to mention irreversible.
I'm curious to hear the opinions of others. Is it worth it? Which would you rather have, a 43rd level bard or a 43rd level monk? Advantages/disadvantages?
Roleplay wouldn't be a major issue, since she's always been a martial artist, anyway. Although it would still be a major life change, it wouldn't be out of character. So the question is, do I want to give up a fairly awesome bard for an uncertain future as a monk?
I have rolled up a young monk and played her to 6th level. She's been fun and effective, but of course it's hard to tell so young. And I realize I made a couple minor mistakes with her, so I'll probably scrap her and start again. The point is, I have at least some idea what I'm doing regarding monks, and already know my way around the UAC system.
But I do love spells and magic. This would be my first "square" ever. I play a sorceress, two bards, a ranger, an empath and a wizard, all to various levels of experience (small wonder I've never capped a character, eh?). Because I like spells so much, I'd probably want to 1x spells as a monk. But from what I've seen, monk spells don't appear to be as fun or powerful as bard songs. Is that correct?
Any input would be appreciated. It's a really hard decision. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
First thing, Monks are Squares. 1x spells is not worth the cost, I stopped at 40 spells. 20 mental, 20 spirit.
Right now I feel UAC is better with non monks. Bards have tonis, and Rogues are better at hiding, UAC is pretty sick from hiding.
I feel Krynch is worthless, the timer of 10 seconds is too slow. The Masteries are nice but dont compair to how fast rogues can tier up from hiding. Monks can hide but its not as efficient as rogues.
Monks spells are more for buffs and 1207 as a good setup. CS based spells are a waste of time because even at 1x our cs will be kind of weak.
I can see how the spells like 1210 and 1219 will be nice when savants are released because they will have the cs for it, but we can never really get to that point, even over cap it takes a lot of points to make them somewhat useable.
Others may feel different, but this is how I see it.
Right now I feel UAC is better with non monks. Bards have tonis, and Rogues are better at hiding, UAC is pretty sick from hiding.
I feel Krynch is worthless, the timer of 10 seconds is too slow. The Masteries are nice but dont compair to how fast rogues can tier up from hiding. Monks can hide but its not as efficient as rogues.
Monks spells are more for buffs and 1207 as a good setup. CS based spells are a waste of time because even at 1x our cs will be kind of weak.
I can see how the spells like 1210 and 1219 will be nice when savants are released because they will have the cs for it, but we can never really get to that point, even over cap it takes a lot of points to make them somewhat useable.
Others may feel different, but this is how I see it.
I agree. Just about every combat method monks have access to are easier and faster than UAC (hurling being the exception). So far I've played with TWC blunt, TWC katar, THW, Polearms, Archery, and UAC. I would rate those as:
Archery > THW/Polearms > TWC Katar/TWC blunt > UAC. Basically, everything that was true about Gemstone still is... UAC is fun, but certainly isn't efficient. If you're not a min/max type of person you may not care. My current build does use UAC but that's primarily because I have 90 ranks of armor for augmented chain and can't really afford (TP wise) another combat build.
Archery > THW/Polearms > TWC Katar/TWC blunt > UAC. Basically, everything that was true about Gemstone still is... UAC is fun, but certainly isn't efficient. If you're not a min/max type of person you may not care. My current build does use UAC but that's primarily because I have 90 ranks of armor for augmented chain and can't really afford (TP wise) another combat build.
A monk at that level is pretty similar to a sword and board bard at level 10.
The bard can lullabye then splat.
The monk can 1207 then splat.
Neither has much in the way of other options. You might be able to create some other options with 1x spells, but critter TD really shouldn't be low enough to allow it, or savants will be sick. Bards get more options at higher level, monks don't.
Pures have masses of non-combat systems, bards have loresinging, monks have nothing.
CS spells are a major weakness. Monks are even weaker than other squares against CS spells and if you are used to the sort of warding defense pures have, you could find it extremely painful as a monk.
Unless you have to be a pioneer or nothing, I'd wait a couple of months and see just how the early converters cope. Monks are much narrower than other professions. Those that just want a pocket monk to add to their party will be fine with it, but others may not be.
The bard can lullabye then splat.
The monk can 1207 then splat.
Neither has much in the way of other options. You might be able to create some other options with 1x spells, but critter TD really shouldn't be low enough to allow it, or savants will be sick. Bards get more options at higher level, monks don't.
Pures have masses of non-combat systems, bards have loresinging, monks have nothing.
CS spells are a major weakness. Monks are even weaker than other squares against CS spells and if you are used to the sort of warding defense pures have, you could find it extremely painful as a monk.
Unless you have to be a pioneer or nothing, I'd wait a couple of months and see just how the early converters cope. Monks are much narrower than other professions. Those that just want a pocket monk to add to their party will be fine with it, but others may not be.
>>Right now I feel UAC is better with non monks. Bards have tonis, and Rogues are better at hiding, UAC is pretty sick from hiding.<<
This is an iteresting comment. I have several rogues who are 2x in brawling (left over from when Voln Fu was a killer attack form). They are of course heavy into hiding and ambush, including 4 ranks in shadow mastery in the older one. I also have a warrior 2x in brawling and OHE, but who attacks from the open.
Results? UAC attacks are often pretty nasty from hiding with my rogues. With my warrior? They pretty much blow chunks attacking from the open. Warrior cmans and regular weapons are the way to go there. Since I haven't actually converted one of my rogues to a monk yet I can't really comment too deeply. I wanted to convert one of the gals to a monk just so I could keep having one of every profession, but I am having serious reservations now.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
This is an iteresting comment. I have several rogues who are 2x in brawling (left over from when Voln Fu was a killer attack form). They are of course heavy into hiding and ambush, including 4 ranks in shadow mastery in the older one. I also have a warrior 2x in brawling and OHE, but who attacks from the open.
Results? UAC attacks are often pretty nasty from hiding with my rogues. With my warrior? They pretty much blow chunks attacking from the open. Warrior cmans and regular weapons are the way to go there. Since I haven't actually converted one of my rogues to a monk yet I can't really comment too deeply. I wanted to convert one of the gals to a monk just so I could keep having one of every profession, but I am having serious reservations now.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
UAC is one of the more "fun" combat systems in the game but its also one of the weakest from a min/max standpoint unless you are ambushing from hiding. That being said the monk class is actually quite interesting and it can also use the more deadly attack styles quite effectively (ranged, THW/Polearm particularly work well with its tp costs/spell list).
>UAC is one of the more "fun" combat systems in the game but its also one of the weakest from a min/max standpoint unless you are ambushing from hiding. That being said the monk class is actually quite interesting and it can also use the more deadly attack styles quite effectively (ranged, THW/Polearm particularly work well with its tp costs/spell list).
A lot of what I am reading (keep in mind, I'm NOT playing a Monk, its just an accumulation of other opinions) seems to indicate that Rogues make superior UAC characters (to Monks), while the mechanical advantages of Monks make for surprisingly good weapon users. An interesting result, either way.
A lot of what I am reading (keep in mind, I'm NOT playing a Monk, its just an accumulation of other opinions) seems to indicate that Rogues make superior UAC characters (to Monks), while the mechanical advantages of Monks make for surprisingly good weapon users. An interesting result, either way.
<<< Monks make for surprisingly good weapon users >>>
That makes sense. If you look at RL Shaolin monks, weapons are an integral part of their training. While some may favor one weapon or another, they are each expected to master all the various weapon categories.
In Philippino martial arts, such as escrima, kali and arnis, there is no difference between unarmed training and weapon training. A weapon is considered an extension of the hand, and nearly all of the empty-hand techniques can be easily adapted to a weapon.
In almost all martial arts, empty-hand training is considered a precursor to weapons training.
Now, if scripted three-section staves were available in Elanthia...that would make my choice of converting to monk MUCH easier. :-)
~ Heathyr and friends
That makes sense. If you look at RL Shaolin monks, weapons are an integral part of their training. While some may favor one weapon or another, they are each expected to master all the various weapon categories.
In Philippino martial arts, such as escrima, kali and arnis, there is no difference between unarmed training and weapon training. A weapon is considered an extension of the hand, and nearly all of the empty-hand techniques can be easily adapted to a weapon.
In almost all martial arts, empty-hand training is considered a precursor to weapons training.
Now, if scripted three-section staves were available in Elanthia...that would make my choice of converting to monk MUCH easier. :-)
~ Heathyr and friends
