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Hi all, it's been a long time. I recently returned and started a warpath, then my wife decided to play also and she chose empath. We don't need two empaths in the family so I am wanting to make something else for myself. So much has changed and I find myself interested in archery and brawling (UCS) since I have no experience with either unless you count the old voln-fu. I would like to ambush/snipe also, used to years ago and loved it. Today I read 33 pages of unarmed combat and 25 pages of wanting to be a rogue. This has done a lot to educate and confuse me. So, I figured I would see what people's thoughts are about all this. I wanted to get Tsoran's spreadsheet to look for myself but my computer doesn't support any word processing documents (yay, gaming comps). Specific questions:
Would making a rogue that does both brawl and archery just be redundant? I'm hoping for fun and never boring. (ie: fire from the shadows and leg something, store the bow and then punch/kick face)
Where should I try to get to with armor? Can I actually train off the action penalty to my MM completely and does heavier armor mess up bow sniping or hiding?
I am currently a human and don't really care for elves (sorry elves, nothing personal) and don't want the weakness of a small race, but I also like Sylvans; would Sylvan be a better choice for what I am trying to do?
Would picking still be possible...or maybe added later as points are available?
Thanks for reading and helping in advance.
P.S. I plan to try GoS since that is also new to me.
<Would making a rogue that does both brawl and archery just be redundant? I'm hoping for fun and never boring. (ie: fire from the shadows and leg something, store the bow and then punch/kick face)>
If you train in both, you'll likely find yourself using archery as your main attack and UCS for critters that are immune to punctures (ex. golems) or just generally are a poor target for ranged attacks (heavily armored or noncorporal critters). There really isn't any advantage to be had from trying to use both at the same time, except maybe at extremely low levels. Once you can reliably hit the eyes of critters with ranged attacks (around level 25 or so), there's really no point to aiming anywhere else or using it to set up a critter for another form of attack since you can get one shot kills 75% of the time or more.
<Where should I try to get to with armor? Can I actually train off the action penalty to my MM completely and does heavier armor mess up bow sniping or hiding?>
For archery you should be golden once you can get into brig. Some choose to move into heavier armor once they start hunting the Rift and other capped/near cap hunting areas, but I've also known of a couple ranged rogues that have claimed to do just fine in robes in those areas. Heavier armor won't hinder ranged directly, but it will make it harder to aim your shots and to stay in hiding when firing your bow.
For UCS, you'll want to use the lightest armor you can get away with. There's no way to train off the MM penalty and anything heavier then robes will reduce your MM. Since MM is the most important part of the equation, you won't want to reduce it by any more then you have to to survive.
<I am currently a human and don't really care for elves (sorry elves, nothing personal) and don't want the weakness of a small race, but I also like Sylvans; would Sylvan be a better choice for what I am trying to do?>
I'd never recommend anyone pick a race purely for mechanical reasons. Pick one that you're going to feel most comfortable playing and adjust your stats to compensate for the weaknesses that that particular race has for the profession/combat training you choose.
That said, don't discount the smaller races when it comes to sniping rogues, I can tell you with good authority that forest gnomes make excellent rogue archers. When using ranged attacks, encumbrance doesn't increase your RT like it does with melee attacks, instead it will reduce you're DS. This might sound bad at first, but as a sniper your butt should be in the shadows unless you're searching a kill and with the right training, CMANS, and reflexes, you shouldn't ever be in the open long enough for anything to swing at you.
Because of this, the smaller race's penalty to STR doesn't matter near as much for snipers as it does for melee users. Just make sure your STR bonus isn't a negative number (I'd recommend starting STR as close to 90 as you can, def. not lower then 80), since it's the bonus that determines your firing time with bows, and you won't ever notice the "weakness" of the smaller races. Indeed, with their bonuses to hiding and CMAN DIVERT, gnomes are much better suited to archery then the stronger, but slower, races like giants and dwarves.
<Would picking still be possible...or maybe added later as points are available?>
Probably not if you're also training in two different combat styles. If you choose just archery you can easily triple in all picking skills and still be a terror in the hunting grounds since several of the stats and skills that are important to one are also important to the other. With UCS, you shouldn't have a problem at least doubling in picking skills as well (which would allow you to open you're own boxes until you get to the extremely high level hunting areas).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If you train in both, you'll likely find yourself using archery as your main attack and UCS for critters that are immune to punctures (ex. golems) or just generally are a poor target for ranged attacks (heavily armored or noncorporal critters). There really isn't any advantage to be had from trying to use both at the same time, except maybe at extremely low levels. Once you can reliably hit the eyes of critters with ranged attacks (around level 25 or so), there's really no point to aiming anywhere else or using it to set up a critter for another form of attack since you can get one shot kills 75% of the time or more.
<Where should I try to get to with armor? Can I actually train off the action penalty to my MM completely and does heavier armor mess up bow sniping or hiding?>
For archery you should be golden once you can get into brig. Some choose to move into heavier armor once they start hunting the Rift and other capped/near cap hunting areas, but I've also known of a couple ranged rogues that have claimed to do just fine in robes in those areas. Heavier armor won't hinder ranged directly, but it will make it harder to aim your shots and to stay in hiding when firing your bow.
For UCS, you'll want to use the lightest armor you can get away with. There's no way to train off the MM penalty and anything heavier then robes will reduce your MM. Since MM is the most important part of the equation, you won't want to reduce it by any more then you have to to survive.
<I am currently a human and don't really care for elves (sorry elves, nothing personal) and don't want the weakness of a small race, but I also like Sylvans; would Sylvan be a better choice for what I am trying to do?>
I'd never recommend anyone pick a race purely for mechanical reasons. Pick one that you're going to feel most comfortable playing and adjust your stats to compensate for the weaknesses that that particular race has for the profession/combat training you choose.
That said, don't discount the smaller races when it comes to sniping rogues, I can tell you with good authority that forest gnomes make excellent rogue archers. When using ranged attacks, encumbrance doesn't increase your RT like it does with melee attacks, instead it will reduce you're DS. This might sound bad at first, but as a sniper your butt should be in the shadows unless you're searching a kill and with the right training, CMANS, and reflexes, you shouldn't ever be in the open long enough for anything to swing at you.
Because of this, the smaller race's penalty to STR doesn't matter near as much for snipers as it does for melee users. Just make sure your STR bonus isn't a negative number (I'd recommend starting STR as close to 90 as you can, def. not lower then 80), since it's the bonus that determines your firing time with bows, and you won't ever notice the "weakness" of the smaller races. Indeed, with their bonuses to hiding and CMAN DIVERT, gnomes are much better suited to archery then the stronger, but slower, races like giants and dwarves.
<Would picking still be possible...or maybe added later as points are available?>
Probably not if you're also training in two different combat styles. If you choose just archery you can easily triple in all picking skills and still be a terror in the hunting grounds since several of the stats and skills that are important to one are also important to the other. With UCS, you shouldn't have a problem at least doubling in picking skills as well (which would allow you to open you're own boxes until you get to the extremely high level hunting areas).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Confusion can clear with experience 30 day tweak period. Find the most recent spreadsheet (tsoran's?), get something that looks good on paper, roll it up and go. Helps a lot with analysis paralysis.
Bow/brawl do compliment each other. brawl until encumbered, then switch to bow; bow until injured, still able to brawl; bow dissarmed? Still have your fists. If you hunt with the Mrs-path, you'll have good bait for when you hide.
I found picking room with a twc/ohe/thw build. As Thrond(?) comments, you can go all combat, all picking, or half/half.
Thanks for such fast replies! I didn't mean to imply that I would use both combat styles in every fight 100% of the time; just that it would be nice to have both to be diverse and creative. As to the comment about armor, if I understand correctly the MM penalty for brig is the same as the penalty for chain and double chain (-3). So, if I am fully trained to wear any of those the only thing I will lose is 3 MM? That seems pretty minor to gain such strong coverage. (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_modifier being the source of that info) Maybe I don't understand how important 3 points of MM is the equasion. As to race choice, I just picked human for my empath as a nice middle of the road to return to the game with. I have never really chosen a race for mechanics or anything else. It's just what appeals to me for the backstories of the races. (why I avoid elves, dark elves, half-krovin) In this particular case, mechanics do deserve some consideration simply because a gnome, halfling or dwarf is going to have a tough time punching something in the face when they can't reach it. I may swap to Sylvan just because I have an easy time seeing myself as one.
>>Bow/brawl do compliment each other. brawl until encumbered, then switch to bow; bow until injured, still able to brawl; bow dissarmed? Still have your fists. If you hunt with the Mrs-path, you'll have good bait for when you hide.<<
This is a great point. My ranger is 2x ranged, 2x brawl and his versatility is a pleasure. GOS negates the injury and firing question, but there are still creatures in plate, made of stone etc... that will be better to fight with UCS than arrows. UCS also uphunts better than ranged. The knock on ucs is that it's slow and that's true, but it's benefits (never get disarmed, immune to weapon fire, crazy stuns and immoblity shots) outweigh the speed. You can always eye shoot like level from the open once you get a little exp under your belt. UCS also is something that you do not have to train for life. The difference between 1x and 2x ucs at cap isn't that great and you get a nice bump when using it from hiding. As a rogue you can be one of the best UCS combatants in the game.
Lockpick and disarm will be a post cap dream if you do both combat styles but I guarantee you will not regret it. It seems that more and more rogues are foregoing lockpicking until post cap especially because you will hit a point where you can not reliably open your own boxes.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with a human, especially for a character who's class you are just learning. Also check out Dwarves. They are a great race all around and polar opposite of the elves.
for your 30 days just twc or sword and board it. I had a TWC rogue with no picking skills and he tore through GoS in a week or two. You can master it well before your 30 days are up,
This is a great point. My ranger is 2x ranged, 2x brawl and his versatility is a pleasure. GOS negates the injury and firing question, but there are still creatures in plate, made of stone etc... that will be better to fight with UCS than arrows. UCS also uphunts better than ranged. The knock on ucs is that it's slow and that's true, but it's benefits (never get disarmed, immune to weapon fire, crazy stuns and immoblity shots) outweigh the speed. You can always eye shoot like level from the open once you get a little exp under your belt. UCS also is something that you do not have to train for life. The difference between 1x and 2x ucs at cap isn't that great and you get a nice bump when using it from hiding. As a rogue you can be one of the best UCS combatants in the game.
Lockpick and disarm will be a post cap dream if you do both combat styles but I guarantee you will not regret it. It seems that more and more rogues are foregoing lockpicking until post cap especially because you will hit a point where you can not reliably open your own boxes.
BTW, there is nothing wrong with a human, especially for a character who's class you are just learning. Also check out Dwarves. They are a great race all around and polar opposite of the elves.
for your 30 days just twc or sword and board it. I had a TWC rogue with no picking skills and he tore through GoS in a week or two. You can master it well before your 30 days are up,
<Is 2x perception sufficient for an archer sniper or do I need the full 3x?>
If you're training in it solely for archery, 3x until you have 40 ranks then maintain 2x. The AS you get from perception doesn't kick in until you have 40 ranks, but even though you can 3x in it you're only able to gain +2 per level from it. If you find you're having trouble hitting what you're AIMing for from hiding, add ranks until you're comfortable.
<Same for hiding and stalking, 2x or 3x? Most of what I have seen says 3x.>
This depends on what you're going to be hiding from. Even with 3x undead and animal-type critters will find you occasionally, but if you don't intend on being around those type of critters you might be able to get away with 2x.
In my personal opinion, if you're going to be a sniper, there's really no reason not to 3x. Even with 3x S&H, 5 ranks in Shadow Mastery, and Armor Stealth, undead can still find me in hiding around 5% of the time. Now, I never hunt undead, but there have been several areas that I have hunted where there are undead roaming around that needed to be avoided (Oteska's Haven and the Keep in RR are two examples), even more where there have been animal type critters roaming around... though those are slightly easier to hide from, I doubt 2x would be sufficient. Also, the TP costs for sniping are low enough that even if you're tripling in picking skills you should easily be able to 3s in S&H... if you need more TP's at lower levels, 1x in CM is a better option.
<Lastly, what about dodge? 2x sufficient or do I need full 3x?>
I've never had 3x in Dodging and I've never felt I was missing anything. If you're going to be locksmithing as well as sniping, you'll likely have a hard time finding the points to triple in it anyway. Somewhere between levels 15-20 you'll start being in the shadows the majority of the time you're hunting and if your timing's good you shouldn't be in the open long enough for anything to swing at you even when you fall out of hiding...esp once you start picking up ranks in CMAN VANISH.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If you're training in it solely for archery, 3x until you have 40 ranks then maintain 2x. The AS you get from perception doesn't kick in until you have 40 ranks, but even though you can 3x in it you're only able to gain +2 per level from it. If you find you're having trouble hitting what you're AIMing for from hiding, add ranks until you're comfortable.
<Same for hiding and stalking, 2x or 3x? Most of what I have seen says 3x.>
This depends on what you're going to be hiding from. Even with 3x undead and animal-type critters will find you occasionally, but if you don't intend on being around those type of critters you might be able to get away with 2x.
In my personal opinion, if you're going to be a sniper, there's really no reason not to 3x. Even with 3x S&H, 5 ranks in Shadow Mastery, and Armor Stealth, undead can still find me in hiding around 5% of the time. Now, I never hunt undead, but there have been several areas that I have hunted where there are undead roaming around that needed to be avoided (Oteska's Haven and the Keep in RR are two examples), even more where there have been animal type critters roaming around... though those are slightly easier to hide from, I doubt 2x would be sufficient. Also, the TP costs for sniping are low enough that even if you're tripling in picking skills you should easily be able to 3s in S&H... if you need more TP's at lower levels, 1x in CM is a better option.
<Lastly, what about dodge? 2x sufficient or do I need full 3x?>
I've never had 3x in Dodging and I've never felt I was missing anything. If you're going to be locksmithing as well as sniping, you'll likely have a hard time finding the points to triple in it anyway. Somewhere between levels 15-20 you'll start being in the shadows the majority of the time you're hunting and if your timing's good you shouldn't be in the open long enough for anything to swing at you even when you fall out of hiding...esp once you start picking up ranks in CMAN VANISH.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
For the purposes of AS perception caps at 2x. For other purposes ranks of perception over 2x count half.
I recommend racing perception early and then cutting back for trap detection, but for archery I would start as I meant to continue. 2x is core, and 3x if you have spare points (which you probably won't).
I find 1x enough S&H for brawling purposes, but I have no chance of hiding from perceptive undead. If you are basing your tactics around being able to always hide from everything, 3x it. If not, you can get by with 1x. Its only around level 75 that I started feeling maybe some doubled ranks might be useful, but I haven't actually trained them. (I was ranged with 1x brawl till level 25 and then dumped ranged for 2x brawl, but always 3x picking).
Early on your AGI stat setting is a lot more important than whether you have 2x or 3x dodge. A 2x halfling with AGI set for TPs will outdodge a 3x giant with AGI set for growth until about level 40. For what you want to do, 2x and make sure you have good AGI.
I recommend racing perception early and then cutting back for trap detection, but for archery I would start as I meant to continue. 2x is core, and 3x if you have spare points (which you probably won't).
I find 1x enough S&H for brawling purposes, but I have no chance of hiding from perceptive undead. If you are basing your tactics around being able to always hide from everything, 3x it. If not, you can get by with 1x. Its only around level 75 that I started feeling maybe some doubled ranks might be useful, but I haven't actually trained them. (I was ranged with 1x brawl till level 25 and then dumped ranged for 2x brawl, but always 3x picking).
Early on your AGI stat setting is a lot more important than whether you have 2x or 3x dodge. A 2x halfling with AGI set for TPs will outdodge a 3x giant with AGI set for growth until about level 40. For what you want to do, 2x and make sure you have good AGI.
Great to know, thanks guys. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on this project and it is tough trying to do it all.
At level 2:
Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 15 3 - wanting to just maintain 1x
Armor Use..........................| 20 4 - same as TWC
Combat Maneuvers...................| 25 5 - want 2x but dang this one hurts
Ranged Weapons.....................| 40 8
Brawling...........................| 40 8
Ambush.............................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 25 5 - will have to 1x until later
Dodging............................| 50 10 - starting to cut back to 2x
Disarming Traps....................| 30 6 - want to come up to full 2x
Picking Locks......................| 35 7 - same as traps
Stalking and Hiding................| 58 12 - should be able to keep 3x
Perception.........................| 58 12 - may stay 3x to 40, then fall to 2x
Biggest trouble right now is getting CM to 2x. I can see where being just and archer or just a brawler would really open the door to a very well trained hunter/picker. I placed stats for fun and effectiveness not growth. I'm big into the adventurers guild so I may just get a fix stat someday far into the future. All that said, I am able to hide in front of more than one critter in the room, ambushing punches is awesome!
At level 2:
Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 15 3 - wanting to just maintain 1x
Armor Use..........................| 20 4 - same as TWC
Combat Maneuvers...................| 25 5 - want 2x but dang this one hurts
Ranged Weapons.....................| 40 8
Brawling...........................| 40 8
Ambush.............................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 25 5 - will have to 1x until later
Dodging............................| 50 10 - starting to cut back to 2x
Disarming Traps....................| 30 6 - want to come up to full 2x
Picking Locks......................| 35 7 - same as traps
Stalking and Hiding................| 58 12 - should be able to keep 3x
Perception.........................| 58 12 - may stay 3x to 40, then fall to 2x
Biggest trouble right now is getting CM to 2x. I can see where being just and archer or just a brawler would really open the door to a very well trained hunter/picker. I placed stats for fun and effectiveness not growth. I'm big into the adventurers guild so I may just get a fix stat someday far into the future. All that said, I am able to hide in front of more than one critter in the room, ambushing punches is awesome!
I am not thrilled about the idea of trying to get 2 types of combat skill as well as trying to pick. My combat rogue went for 2 combatmodes, but has zero picking skills. Both of my rogues who want to pick went with brawling, since the UCS is much better suited to ambushing rogues than monks fighting from the open (go figger), and one doesn't have to worry about puncture immune critters if you punch their heads in.
Also, one can use a couple of nasty brawling weapons from ambush as well, giving the best of both worlds. Sais in particular are viscious, although right now one of my gals has a very nasty flaring hook knife, which carves a swath through critters with weaker (soft leather and scale) armor. On the other hand, my friend is a capped sniping rogue, and is romping through OTF with a 5x bow and 5x arrows (don't think any problem with punctures there). Either way wil work in the end.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Also, one can use a couple of nasty brawling weapons from ambush as well, giving the best of both worlds. Sais in particular are viscious, although right now one of my gals has a very nasty flaring hook knife, which carves a swath through critters with weaker (soft leather and scale) armor. On the other hand, my friend is a capped sniping rogue, and is romping through OTF with a 5x bow and 5x arrows (don't think any problem with punctures there). Either way wil work in the end.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Just for laughs, here is a brawling rogue who us a fairly good picker (2.5x in the relevant skills), using both UCS and a brawling weapon in combat. Note that titans and giants on the glacier have relatively weak armor, otherwise the hook knife would be less effective.
>>Hills of wind-sculpted snow block what little you might be able to see through the blizzard. Sliding slightly to the north each time you stand still, you conclude that the ground beneath the snow rises in the other direction. You also see an arctic titan and an arctic titan.
Obvious paths: northeast, south, northwest
You feel a little pulse in the ring.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H> punch tit left leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an arctic titan!
Your attack is hindered by holding an elk-painted brown orase targe!
You have good positioning against an arctic titan.
UAF: 252 vs UDF: 213 = 1.183 * MM: 70 + d100: 82 = 164
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the arctic titan's left leg fractures the fibula.
The arctic titan is knocked to the ground!
The arctic titan is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R> get hook
You remove a gornar edged vultite hook-knife from in your deep black silk pack.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> stance offen
> ambush titan left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +155 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +29 = +153
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Wild downward slash severs the arctic titan's left foot!
Bloody stump, anyone?
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
An arctic titan swings a handaxe at you!
AS: +262 vs DS: +207 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +58 = +145
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Awkward slash to your stomach!
Everyone needs another belly button.
R>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
An arctic titan swings a handaxe at you!
AS: +212 vs DS: +197 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +23 = +70
A clean miss.
R> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> ambush titan neck
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +151 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +45 = +173
... and hit for 24 points of damage!
Neck skewered, sliding past the throat and spine! That looks painful.
The arctic titan is stunned!
Your vultite hook-knife releases a blast of vibrating energy!
... 15 points of damage!
Nice blow to left arm!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The cold arctic winds begin to whip around you violently!
R> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
The titan flails its huge arms around angrily.
RH>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
An arctic titan writhes around helplessly on the ground.
RH> ambush titan neck
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +148 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +51 = +182
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Slashing blow to chest knocks the arctic titan back a few paces!
The arctic titan is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R> stow r
You put a gornar edged vultite hook-knife in your deep black silk pack.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
An arctic titan writhes around helplessly on the ground.
H> punch tit head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an arctic titan!
Your attack is hindered by holding an elk-painted brown orase targe!
You have excellent positioning against an arctic titan.
UAF: 252 vs UDF: 204 = 1.235 * MM: 83 + d100: 58 = 160
... and hit for 65 points of damage!
Explosive punch to the face leaves little else than a pulpy mass of blood, bone, and brain matter!
The arctic titan screams evilly one last time and goes still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.<<
The other titan died pretty much the same way
If you aren't cheating,
you aren't trying hard enough
>>Hills of wind-sculpted snow block what little you might be able to see through the blizzard. Sliding slightly to the north each time you stand still, you conclude that the ground beneath the snow rises in the other direction. You also see an arctic titan and an arctic titan.
Obvious paths: northeast, south, northwest
You feel a little pulse in the ring.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H> punch tit left leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an arctic titan!
Your attack is hindered by holding an elk-painted brown orase targe!
You have good positioning against an arctic titan.
UAF: 252 vs UDF: 213 = 1.183 * MM: 70 + d100: 82 = 164
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the arctic titan's left leg fractures the fibula.
The arctic titan is knocked to the ground!
The arctic titan is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R> get hook
You remove a gornar edged vultite hook-knife from in your deep black silk pack.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> stance offen
> ambush titan left leg
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +155 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +29 = +153
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Wild downward slash severs the arctic titan's left foot!
Bloody stump, anyone?
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
An arctic titan swings a handaxe at you!
AS: +262 vs DS: +207 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +58 = +145
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Awkward slash to your stomach!
Everyone needs another belly button.
R>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
An arctic titan swings a handaxe at you!
AS: +212 vs DS: +197 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +23 = +70
A clean miss.
R> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> ambush titan neck
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +151 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +45 = +173
... and hit for 24 points of damage!
Neck skewered, sliding past the throat and spine! That looks painful.
The arctic titan is stunned!
Your vultite hook-knife releases a blast of vibrating energy!
... 15 points of damage!
Nice blow to left arm!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The cold arctic winds begin to whip around you violently!
R> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
The titan flails its huge arms around angrily.
RH>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
An arctic titan writhes around helplessly on the ground.
RH> ambush titan neck
You leap from hiding to attack!
You slash with a gornar edged vultite hook-knife at an arctic titan!
AS: +263 vs DS: +148 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +51 = +182
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Slashing blow to chest knocks the arctic titan back a few paces!
The arctic titan is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R> stow r
You put a gornar edged vultite hook-knife in your deep black silk pack.
> hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
An arctic titan shakes off the stun!
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
H>
The titan sniffs around looking for something.
An arctic titan looks frustrated.
An arctic titan writhes around helplessly on the ground.
H> punch tit head
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch an arctic titan!
Your attack is hindered by holding an elk-painted brown orase targe!
You have excellent positioning against an arctic titan.
UAF: 252 vs UDF: 204 = 1.235 * MM: 83 + d100: 58 = 160
... and hit for 65 points of damage!
Explosive punch to the face leaves little else than a pulpy mass of blood, bone, and brain matter!
The arctic titan screams evilly one last time and goes still.
Roundtime: 4 sec.<<
The other titan died pretty much the same way
If you aren't cheating,
you aren't trying hard enough
<Two Weapon Combat..................| 15 3 - wanting to just maintain 1x>
I'm going to start with the disclaimer that I may be remembering incorrectly how much TWC is needed to unlock off-hand DS and I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong:
I'm assuming that this is for the extra DS when you're using UCS. If that's the case, you should be able to get away with .5x in it. Since you're tight for points, that would be a good way to save a few and if you find your DS is lacking you can always get more until you're comfortable.
Also, I have to agree with Throgg about two weapon styles and picking. Right now the only thing suffering is picking skills, but I'm skeptical you'll be able to get you'll be able to meet your goal of getting those skills up to your goal of 2x until you're close to cap unless you sacrifice other needed skills. If you can't maintain at least 2x in your picking skills, they're really not worth having and you'd be better off investing those points elsewhere (keep in mind that you'll also want about 10 ranks in Arcane Runes for disarming scarabs and activating scrolls with 403 and 404 if you're serious about locksmithing).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'm going to start with the disclaimer that I may be remembering incorrectly how much TWC is needed to unlock off-hand DS and I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong:
I'm assuming that this is for the extra DS when you're using UCS. If that's the case, you should be able to get away with .5x in it. Since you're tight for points, that would be a good way to save a few and if you find your DS is lacking you can always get more until you're comfortable.
Also, I have to agree with Throgg about two weapon styles and picking. Right now the only thing suffering is picking skills, but I'm skeptical you'll be able to get you'll be able to meet your goal of getting those skills up to your goal of 2x until you're close to cap unless you sacrifice other needed skills. If you can't maintain at least 2x in your picking skills, they're really not worth having and you'd be better off investing those points elsewhere (keep in mind that you'll also want about 10 ranks in Arcane Runes for disarming scarabs and activating scrolls with 403 and 404 if you're serious about locksmithing).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Yeah, the attempt to get picking also just isn't worth it when there are so many useful skills that I can get that are combat/dfredux related. By level 5, I was only one rank away from full 2x in picking and traps, so really close. The premise of this character is to be able to hunt via bow or brawl and that just isn't something I want to give up. Freeing up the points in picking and traps will give me MOC, more PF, more CM, FA, Survival and Climb/swim.
Starchitin, I believe you are correct in that I could drop to .5x in TWC just for the parry defense and that isn't all bad, but I might as well leave it up there unless I just really need the points elsewhere for some reason. 1x TWC provides even better defense than .5x if I understand the formula correctly and I love defense.
I am currently working my way up Shadow Mastery to get Vanish. I also want to get Surge of Strength eventually and Slippery Mind. Are there any other CMANs that should/would be considered "must haves" for this character?
Starchitin, I believe you are correct in that I could drop to .5x in TWC just for the parry defense and that isn't all bad, but I might as well leave it up there unless I just really need the points elsewhere for some reason. 1x TWC provides even better defense than .5x if I understand the formula correctly and I love defense.
I am currently working my way up Shadow Mastery to get Vanish. I also want to get Surge of Strength eventually and Slippery Mind. Are there any other CMANs that should/would be considered "must haves" for this character?
Triple dodge before you single TWC if its just for defense.
There are DS bonuses for training 1 rank TWC, which is always worth it, and training 0.5x TWC, which is worth it at low level, but otherwise you are much better off with the points in 3x dodge. Empty handed melee in defensive stance its about the same TP cost per point of DS, but in offensive stance or with a bow in hand, or against bolts, dodge wins heavily.
There are DS bonuses for training 1 rank TWC, which is always worth it, and training 0.5x TWC, which is worth it at low level, but otherwise you are much better off with the points in 3x dodge. Empty handed melee in defensive stance its about the same TP cost per point of DS, but in offensive stance or with a bow in hand, or against bolts, dodge wins heavily.
<Are there any other CMANs that should/would be considered "must haves" for this character?>
Divert. With both UCS and archery you're going to want to limit the number of critters in the room and with CMAN DIVERT it's much easier to keep the odds in your favor or get rid of that critter that keeps finding you/has a nasty maneuver/is immune to your attacks/etc. while you focus on the one you're hunting.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Divert. With both UCS and archery you're going to want to limit the number of critters in the room and with CMAN DIVERT it's much easier to keep the odds in your favor or get rid of that critter that keeps finding you/has a nasty maneuver/is immune to your attacks/etc. while you focus on the one you're hunting.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Buggery; I had thought this gal was 2.5x in locksmith skills. Turns out I apparently dropped them a bit fix fixskills in order to pump up CMan ranks. Bah. still, she's a bit over 2x in those and a decent hunter. (I really, really, really really wanted 5 ranks of shadow mastery and vanish, so I fixskilled on May 19; I figure I can always go back if I want to).
>>Guennwhfar (at level 39), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 140 40
Shield Use.........................| 145 45
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62
Brawling...........................| 187 87
Ambush.............................| 186 86
Physical Fitness...................| 150 50
Dodging............................| 194 94
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Disarming Traps....................| 183 83
Picking Locks......................| 183 83
Stalking and Hiding................| 188 88
Perception.........................| 170 70
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 82 18
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 4 Phy 1 Mnt<<
On the other hand, this rogue can't pick her way out of a paper bag. Kicks butt in combat though (twin sais are a favorite, although, again, UCS from ambush is always a crowd pleaser).
>>(at level 33), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 176 76
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 141 41
Brawling...........................| 170 70
Ambush.............................| 170 70
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 205 105
Arcane Symbols.....................| 74 16
Magic Item Use.....................| 58 12
Stalking and Hiding................| 200 100
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 40 8
Training Points: 10 Phy 0 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
>>Guennwhfar (at level 39), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 140 40
Shield Use.........................| 145 45
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62
Brawling...........................| 187 87
Ambush.............................| 186 86
Physical Fitness...................| 150 50
Dodging............................| 194 94
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Disarming Traps....................| 183 83
Picking Locks......................| 183 83
Stalking and Hiding................| 188 88
Perception.........................| 170 70
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 82 18
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 4 Phy 1 Mnt<<
On the other hand, this rogue can't pick her way out of a paper bag. Kicks butt in combat though (twin sais are a favorite, although, again, UCS from ambush is always a crowd pleaser).
>>(at level 33), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 176 76
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 141 41
Brawling...........................| 170 70
Ambush.............................| 170 70
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 205 105
Arcane Symbols.....................| 74 16
Magic Item Use.....................| 58 12
Stalking and Hiding................| 200 100
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 40 8
Training Points: 10 Phy 0 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
So I dumped picking and am now far better at combat. I am really happy with bringing CM back to 2x, the boost to my AS (and brawling attack) is really helpful. At my level (6), I am still simply open ambushing. I have tried targeted ambushing and can fairly reliably hit legs so things are looking up. No matter what else, I am very happy with this character. The UCS messages are new and refreshing. I can punch ambush or build attack position with jabs. I feel very versatile.
Now I am trying to figure out what kind of bow to get. I have a 0x light x-bow that I just keep stored for a single shot and it isn't seeing much use. I could also use some archer tips on how best to store arrows and bolts. Is there a particular kind of quiver I should try to get?
Now I am trying to figure out what kind of bow to get. I have a 0x light x-bow that I just keep stored for a single shot and it isn't seeing much use. I could also use some archer tips on how best to store arrows and bolts. Is there a particular kind of quiver I should try to get?
>Is there a particular kind of quiver I should try to get?
If you can't afford one made by a GM, get one made by a warrior.
>I have tried targeted ambushing and can fairly reliably hit legs so things are looking up.
You'll find its roughly as easy to aim at the head of a prone critter as the legs of a standing one, so when you are able to reliably punch a leg for the knockdown (punch leg is the best UAC attack for the knockdown), you should also be able to reliably punch head for the kill. Another level of 2x training and you won't miss any more openings on those shots. Then the only attack not worth aiming is the jab, unless you have too much encumbrance for your AGIDEX and aimed punches are taking too long.
>>Now I am trying to figure out what kind of bow to get.<<
The bow you choose will be highly dependent on your strength stat at this point. Once you get really good with the mechanics of the game again and set up macros to increase speed on your side of the monitor it won't be as important but for now it's going to mean life and death. Without knowing your STR I'd say that a composite bow is what you want. They are 1 second faster than a long bow and hit almost as hard. I used one from lvl 10-30, switched to long bow as STR increased (and because I was hunting Reivers in chain and plate) but will eventually go back to a composite or at least have one available.
Crossbows are great but you have to be smart and very good to use them well. The big benefit is using them from kneeling because of the AS boost. When you do that there will be times when you fall out of hiding and are caught stance offensive and kneeling and you'll get stunned, probably die.
Some people set up macros to shoot first with the crossbow then switch to a bow for finishing off the creature. Other will carry two crossbows that are cocked and loaded and get two fast shots off quickly. It's effective though it requires a player who has his/her systems really tight.
The bow you choose will be highly dependent on your strength stat at this point. Once you get really good with the mechanics of the game again and set up macros to increase speed on your side of the monitor it won't be as important but for now it's going to mean life and death. Without knowing your STR I'd say that a composite bow is what you want. They are 1 second faster than a long bow and hit almost as hard. I used one from lvl 10-30, switched to long bow as STR increased (and because I was hunting Reivers in chain and plate) but will eventually go back to a composite or at least have one available.
Crossbows are great but you have to be smart and very good to use them well. The big benefit is using them from kneeling because of the AS boost. When you do that there will be times when you fall out of hiding and are caught stance offensive and kneeling and you'll get stunned, probably die.
Some people set up macros to shoot first with the crossbow then switch to a bow for finishing off the creature. Other will carry two crossbows that are cocked and loaded and get two fast shots off quickly. It's effective though it requires a player who has his/her systems really tight.
Thanks as always guys!
Just so I'm certain I am clear; A GM made quiver - is that Guild Master? And, do you store the bow in the quiver with the arrows or should I get a harness or something for the bow(s)?
I just had a house mate give me a +12 bow, right before I logged, I need to take a look and see what kind it is. I think I will set up Stormfront to have a bow and, eventually, a x-bow. I may hold off on kneeling with a x-bow until I get stun manuevers from the rogue guild. For now I will be happy to just snipe here and there and to punch my way to fame.
Just so I'm certain I am clear; A GM made quiver - is that Guild Master? And, do you store the bow in the quiver with the arrows or should I get a harness or something for the bow(s)?
I just had a house mate give me a +12 bow, right before I logged, I need to take a look and see what kind it is. I think I will set up Stormfront to have a bow and, eventually, a x-bow. I may hold off on kneeling with a x-bow until I get stun manuevers from the rogue guild. For now I will be happy to just snipe here and there and to punch my way to fame.
