I am told that silent strike is sort of redundant now. Also, dump the trading and pickpocketing; you don't have enough skill in either one to actually use them well. Also, in addition to combat maneuvers, there now exist shield skills; check them out. Also, with 2x dodge ranks, get the smallest shield you can.

As for ambushing weapons, 1.2 million won't get you squat. Inflation has taken it's toll; a fel hafted war axe runs around 7 million. You have all you need. A falchion for softer armors, a handaxe for harder stuff, and a dagger for when you get good enough to plant something in a critter's eye. You might also read up on archery (ambushing rogues make good archers, just stay away from crossbows), and the new unarmed combat system (Abbreviated UAC). I went with brawling and UAC, but also picked up a targe and sai for the traditional type ambush.

You have an awful lot of armor skill; I am staying in brigandine for now, but will probably go up to hauberk. Oh, and btw, there are new armor skills also; I trained in stealth armor.

Guild skill training is a PIA, and lockmastery later on takes forever to learn. I'll probably go with sweep and cheap shots, and to heck with the rest.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

OK, just for laughs, this is my most advanced rogue's skills. This is NOT to be regarded as any sort of ultimate skill set; among other things, you went for minor elemental spells for the lores, which I did not. Personally, I am amazed that you got those 4 spells so quickly. (I use lore imbeds for those cases when I really need them. OK, the bonus is halved, but it's better than nothing).

I am not particularly advanced in Guild skills; I find much of that training to be tedious and mind numbingly boring. I will probably, as mentioned, just cone in on sweep and cheap shots for now.

One last thing; check out the Adventurer's Guild for bounty tasks.

>>ex
Level: 44 Deeds: 3
Experience: 2119888 Death's Sting: None
Exp. until next: 12612 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 2349904
Physical TPs: 1 Mana: 1/7 max

Your mind is fresh and clear.

You feel a strange sense of serenity and find that you are able to reflect on recent events with uncommon clarity and understanding.

Your recent adventures echo powerfully in your mind.
>inf
Name: Guennwhfar Mordfrau Race: Dark Elf Profession: Rogue (shown as: Nightstalker)
Gender: Female Age: 30 Expr: 2119888 Level: 44
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 98 (19) ... 98 (19)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 69 (-1) ... 69 (-1)
Aura (AUR): 79 (24) ... 81 (25)
Logic (LOG): 52 (1) ... 54 (2)
Intuition (INT): 79 (19) ... 79 (19)
Wisdom (WIS): 67 (13) ... 67 (13)
Influence (INF): 46 (-7) ... 46 (-7)
Mana: 1 Silver: 40
>skill
Guennwhfar (at level 44), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 141 41
Shield Use.........................| 154 54
Combat Maneuvers...................| 167 67
Brawling...........................| 197 97
Ambush.............................| 196 96
Physical Fitness...................| 153 53
Dodging............................| 206 106
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Disarming Traps....................| 193 93
Picking Locks......................| 197 97
Stalking and Hiding................| 210 110
Perception.........................| 189 89
Climbing...........................| 111 27
Swimming...........................| 82 18

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 1
Training Points: 1 Phy 0 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

50 days remain until the annual FIXSKILLS is to be granted, on 05/20/2014.

Your 30 day migration period will begin when you choose to degrade a skill.

Further information can be found in the FAQs.
>cman info
Guennwhfar, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Surge of Strength surge 1
Divert divert 3
Vanish vanish 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2
>shield info
Guennwhfar, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Deflection Training dtraining 2
Deflect the Elements deflect 2


>gld
You are a member of the Rogue Guild.
You are current with your dues and must check in again sometime in the next 11 days.
You currently have 33 ranks out of a possible 193 for your training.

You have 8 ranks in the Sweep skill.
You need 67 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to practice sweeping a partner.
You have 6 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 4 ranks in the Subdue skill.
You need 59 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to clean the windows in the guild.
You have 5 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 10 ranks in the Stun Maneuvers skill.
You need 41 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to sweep the guild courtyard.
You have 9 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 5 ranks in the Lock Mastery skill.
You need 24 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to pick some tough boxes from creatures.
You have 1 repetition remaining for this task.

You have 5 ranks in the Cheap Shot skill.
You need 29 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to stomp some creatures' feet.
You have 5 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 7 ranks in the Rogue Gambits skill.
You need 5 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to get a partner to teach you your latest trick.
You have 10 repetitions remaining to complete this task.


"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

Great Posts

Let me read and let em sink in and Ill reply better

If you want to check out UAC or archery, there's no reason not to (I'm an archer myself) but sword and board is still a great path for rogues. The three styles all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Since you're sword and board at the moment, that's what I'll keep my comments directed towards.

First off, I agree that your armor ranks are way high for your level. There's no reason that a rogue can't wear MBP, but most don't move up into it until much later since the higher ASG armors have a much bigger hindrance on both maneuvers and hiding. I'd suggest either moving down to brig for the time being and dropping Armor down to 1x, or pumping CM up to 2x and S&H up to 3x if you want to stay in MBP.

Your ranks in Survival, First Aid, Trading, and Pickpocketing are, for all practical purposes, just wasting TPs. Getting rid of your Ranks in Survival and FA will keep you from getting assigned skinning tasks at the Adventurer's Guild (which will be difficult to do unless you raise one of the two up to at least 1x or hire someone to get the skins for you). Bumping Trading up to .5x will get you more silvers when you sell and save you some when you buy at town shops, but I'd only get it after getting everything else you need. For Pickpocketing, either 2x in it or don't bother with it at all, very few (if any) people pick others pockets any more so getting it for defense against that is a waste (and the few ranks you have won't really help much even if someone does try to pick yer pockets).

Get your Physical Fitness up to at least full 1x and keep it there for life. If you can afford 1.5 or 2x in it, even better. It'll give you more stamina, it's the biggest contributor to Redux, and helps greatly in defending against many critter maneuvers.

For your Stats, there are a couple things you should consider since you have a chance to change them. Keep in mind that when you edit them, the numbers will be your stats at level 0 rather then the ones you have now (I'd recommend playing with a stat cruncher before changing any of them). As a giantman STR is a very quickly growing Stat so, since it's already maxed, I'd reduce that one and distribute the points between slower growing stats (you could even lower it to the point that it's 90 or so at your current level without noticing it too much). AGL doesn't grow near as fast for giantment and it's important for rogues, but it's already maxed as well so I'd also reduce that one to the point that it's 98 or 99 at your present level. Putting the freed up points into INT will help with trap detection and dodging, but if you're in a certain society you might want to give AUR a boost instead.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

I'm not sure how much you remember or what you've picked back up, so I'll try to explain acronyms and such.

For armor and armor use, I'd recommend picking an armor sub group (ASG), brig would be a good choice for your current level or possibly a chain. You can work your way back up to MBP but it will be difficult to get enough ranks to use it before you gain several levels.

Lighter armors are way better than they used to be for rogues as well. Several of the ARMOR and CMAN skills take your armor group (none, soft leather, hard leather, chain, plate, 0-5) into account and only really work if you're in light armor, so you might want to check those out before committing to heavy armor. (I use MBP but there's lot of light armor evangelists about).

Then, you can use this table to figure out your minimum Armor Use ranks to train off the maneuver penalty:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Use

For brig, you'll want at least 30 ranks.

Then, I'd recommended raising armor in big chunks instead of a rank at a time. Figure out the breakpoints that give you a benefit, sometimes it will be another rank in your chosen ARMOR skill, sometimes it will be enough ranks to increase your armor group.

If you want to pick well enough to get your own boxes, I'd recommend 2x picking, 2x disarm, 1x perception, and learning spell 404 (minor elemental, disarm enhancement, also called traplore).

That will be good enough to get the majority of your own boxes for most of the game, and will be cheaper than 3x in the long run.

You can 1.5x or even 1x ambush and get by if you need to save points.

2x stalking and hiding will work pretty well for most of the game as well.

Ok, if you actually get hit, metal armor such as MBP will indeed reduce the damage/crit level inflicted when compared to brigandine. But if you are going high dodge ranks and fighting from ambush, my understanding is that it's easier to evade a blow entirely in lighter leather class armors. That's one reason rogues have an armor skill called evasion. Armor skills are class specific. Warriors are supposed to stand out in the open and go toe to toe; their armor skills are different, and their armor training cost is less. In addition, their cost for the dodge skill is greater than rogues. They are supposed to get into heavy armor early on. (Note that paladins have yet a third armor skill, fluidity, designed to help them cast spells while wearing plate type protection).

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

That does help me undserstand it a bit more. Thanks.... Something to look into more in the near future

So I did the 1st adjust as i noted above, both Stats and Skills...
At 1st it seemed the Lower STR and DEX killed my movement skill.. or ARMOR with MBP... I also dropped my Armor train to 50 from 57...
So then Changed the Armor back to 57... Still my RT in ambush was 7sec....

So back to the calculator...

so after testing a few things I kinda went back to my original stats with a few Changes
REASSIGN STATS

90 Strength (STR) 70 Aura (AUR)
74 Constitution (CON) 50 Logic (LOG)
90 Dexterity (DEX) 50 Intuition (INT)
90 Agility (AGI) 56 Wisdom (WIS)
70 Discipline (DIS) 20 Influence (INF)

STATS AT LEVEL 31

100 Strength (STR) 77 Aura (AUR)
84 Constitution (CON) 64 Logic (LOG)
98 Dexterity (DEX) 67 Intuition (INT)
100 Agility (AGI) 62 Wisdom (WIS)
80 Discipline (DIS) 40 Influence (INF)

I raised my CON by 14pts, and Lowered INF 10, WIS 4...... the Biggest difference from my original Changes to my 2nd Changes was the lower CON, from 85 to 74.. but it still was quit a bit higher than before.. So helped with HP's and increased my Encumbrance as well

This seemed pretty Good...

I did adjust my Skills as well
Widmer (at level 31), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 156 56 Droped 1 from original
Shield Use.........................| 156 56
Combat Maneuvers...................| 134 37 Raised up 4
Edged Weapons......................| 166 66
Ambush.............................| 160 60 raised up 4
Physical Fitness...................| 122 31 raised up 4
Dodging............................| 164 64
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 150 50 dropped this 10... only lowered my disarm skill 10pts. and can still see/disarm any box i hunt
Picking Locks......................| 173 73
Stalking and Hiding................| 162 62 raised up 9
Perception.........................| 160 60
Climbing...........................| 74 16
Swimming...........................| 30 6
Trading............................| 15 3

RT in my MBP in ambush back to 6sec, and appears my carry weight is higher also, and I was also able to Self cast Silveries in my MBP :BEAM: thrilled the Crap outa me... so Something musta worked out as planned..

I still have 34point ta use, so may look at it more Today..

For the near Future I am going to Compare my 4x MBP vs 4x Brig, may even look more into my 5x Crit Padded Full Leather as well... and look more into the Armor and Shield Skills

I have 3 more Stat changes available till 4/20 then Fixstats are available in may, so by Then I should have a Better Understanding of my Direction

Lots of fun learning everything all over again... Hey i need ta go Find my House... see how run down it is :-)

>>I was also able to Self cast Silveries in my MBP<<

What?? What's the spell failure rate on that? 99? Heck, my Paladin with armor fluidity on has trouble casting MnS spells with her MBP armor on.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

Thuunk uses 5x leather armor. Is that too light a weight of armor for a rogue?



Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)

<<Did try 404 and had ta remove my armor... go Figure.... But can do Silveries every time... Havent tried 403 Yet...>>

The minimum Minor Elemental spell hindrance for MBP is 16% regardless of which spell in the circle you cast, meaning that you'll fail 16% of the time you try to cast a spell from that circle while wearing MBP. Of course, that last sentence assumes you have 210 ranks in Armor Use, which is impossible for a rogue without enhansives. With the 56 ranks you have, your hindrance should be somewhere around 23-24% (assuming I'm understanding the formulas correctly). That you haven't failed a cast of 401 is just luck.

Of course, spell hindrance shouldn't matter much for a rogue since you'll be in town most of the time you'll be casting the few spells you know and can just remove your armor when you want to cast a spell. If you're going to stick with MBP, you'll eventually want 80 ranks to train off the maneuver penalty though. (you can find a table for how many ranks are required for the various penalties here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Use ).

Coincidentally, I don't know how armor fluidity works, but Minor Spiritual has the same spell hindrance in MBP... at least according to Krakiipedia.

Starchitin

A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.

Welcome back

My preference where it concerns archery for rogues is to train stealth and accuracy to excess. There are some good references on Krakkipedia that would be good for you to look at.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Rogue

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Archer_(rogue)

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Bow_(guide)

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Unarmed_combat_advice_(saved_posts)

Concerning the last reference I would make two comments. You do not need spirit strike for a rogue to make UAC work well. You should train one rank of TWC to gain abou 16-17 DS and open up the possibility to parry with the off hand.

Wolfloner's player

Steve

If he is casting those spells in a sanctuary he'd have 0 hindrance no matter what.

I'm in agreement with what people have said regarding armor. If you want to experiment with lighter armor, don't lower your armor skills, just wear the lighter armor and see how it suits you.

As far as picking goes, I'd lean in the direction of what Keleborn said, if you are just looking to pick your own boxes 2x and lores will serve you well for a good while. If you are looking to be the best picking possible that is another story and you should definitely go 3x with lores.

As sword/board I'd suggest 50 ranks of perception then let that slide down to 1x.

Something no one had seemed to mention, you are probably going to want at least a few ranks of AS to help you with scarabs. At your level 5 ranks might be all you really need, my low level picking rogue has 10 ranks but he has had them since level 13 or so.

Trading, the bonus you get from this is (trading skill bonus + ING bonus)/12, I like to get 30 ranks of it myself, that's a nice even 120 skill bonus giving me a 10% bonus from it plus any extra I may get from INF.

Survival/First aid, train them if you want, it will cut into your tps to use on other things so make sure that is something you want to do. My picking rogue trains in them while my combat rogue doesn't, all a matter of preference.

Not sure what level you are but I dislike uneven training unless it is a skill you happen to be bringing up as training points allow. As a rogue your weapon training makes a good base, maxed weapon skill is the same as fully training 2x in something, so 1/2 that is 1x training and obviously any 3x skill is maxed out in the same fashion.

I'd highly suggest you place your stats for capped growth before your 30 days are up. Till then you could max logic and dexterity, as well as 90 in strength, probably 90 in agility, 70 in constitution and discipline, then wisdom and aura as high as you can place them.

As far as combat maneuvers go you have shadow mastery and vanish, I'd also highly suggest combat mobility and combat focus. After that is up to you a bit, wspec is a decent one as is divert(which I see you already have). Later on down the road you'll want disarm. Feint and cunning defense can also be good choices.

If a society was mentioned I didn't see it. Voln underwent an update recently and a new society, Guardians of Sunfist was added a few years ago. Col is still much the same as it has always been. If you haven't picked one you can look them up on krakiipedia. They all have their pros and cons and I don't feel you can really go wrong picking one or the other and if you change your mind later on down the road you can always switch societies.

I should probably elucidate a bit about my feelings on CMan focus. Now, I admit that +10 generic TD is actually fantastic early on. But because of the way the ROI between CS and TD works, by the time you get well advanced in training it's insignificant. Casters will ward you anyway.

I'll give a reverse example, from a spell caster's point of view. My cleric had trouble early on hunting with her own CS based spells; critters often shrugged her spells off. In fact, this is why many spell casting professions start out using weapons to hunt; to augment their low mana and poor ability to hit a target. But by the time she was in her 70's she almost never missed warding a critter. Now she's capped, and has a CS of 515; there is not a critter in the game she can't ward (except for some of the more ridiculous invasion thingies), and 10 more TD wouldn't help them a bit.

So, since we do have a yearly fixskills available now, you may want to get CMan focus for now, and you can always get rid of it later on in favor of something else if you want.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

Creature CS doesn't ramp up quite the same way that player CS does though. At cap most creatures have a CS of around 400. Creatures that are above level 100 do have higher CSs though, sentries cast at 450 most of the time, GWE at around 490, fetish masters cast around 430, siphons 450 for spirit spells and 470 for elemental, lichs cast around 480-500, cerebralites 400-430. I spent close to 3 weeks in OTF not long ago and 409 was one of the highest CSs I saw during that trip, there was an adept that cast at 427 years ago but it must have been a fluke. I'm in voln, and even before the update and learning 430, CS spells weren't near the issue that people have made them out to be. Here is my TD without 430, so just 101, 107, 401, 406, 414, symbol of protection, and combat focus for TD boosters.

Elemental
Xxx gestures at you.
CS: +360 - TD: +385 + CvA: -21 + d100: +98 - -5 == +57
Warded off!
You are unaffected.

Spiritual
Xxx gestures at you.
CS: +151 - TD: +387 + CvA: -21 + d100: +74 - +5 == -188
Warded off!
A faint warmth builds beneath your skin, but the sensation is fleeting.

Too lazy to get a cast of sorcerer spells but it would end up between the two, so it would be 386.

Now if you still had a 100% chance(or near enough) of being warded after combat focus it certainly wouldn't be worth the points, but that is not the case

I'm a heathen and wear robes on my rogue, so I once got a lot of mileage out of slippery mind, but then whirling dervish came out and it is just plain better as far as martial stances are concerned. Especially if you mstrike and use TWC, but I digress. 30 CMPs is a ton of CMPs for 10 TD, and if you're getting cast at often enough that 10 TD will make or break you, I don't think your skill set or training decisions are the problem. Ultimately, though:

The CMP costs are too damn high!

.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.