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I've been considering transferring my rogue from CoL to GoS for quite a while. From a philosophical perspective I've always disliked having him in CoL, but could never quite justify the move to Voln from a power perspective. Even now I'm hesitant, simply because of the time it takes to accumulate excess favor.
Looking at the sigils in GoS I see one fundamental issue...having to renew certain sigils every 60 seconds. This seems like it would be, not only annoying (yeah, I'm lazy and it's nice to only cast signs once a hunt,) but stamina intensive. I run Surge and Shadow Mastery almost constantly hunting the temple.
Aside from the whole 'getting his soul back' bit, the other advantage I see to GoS is that my main is a sorcerer, and I hear camps are a great way to wrack up necro energy quickly.
I'm curious if I'm missing anything, good or bad, and what other people's thoughts are on why GoS is the 'better' organization.
--Jurp
Well, there are good and bad things about switching to GoS as a rogue. Having done the switch at cap from CoS to GoS myself, I personally think GoS was the right choice. I chewed over switching to Voln recently due to all of the changes there (and for something fresh), but after thinking things over I decided it would be the wrong decision. Everyone plays different but I'll touch on a few things that I think are important to consider.
The first thing you'll have to get used to is ... yes. The durations are horrible. They made some of them stackable (the TD sigil, for example), but even still. Compared to the other societies you are going to feel like you're constantly needing to refresh your main AS/DS/TD sigils. Make macros, make scripts, do what you gotta do... but that leads to the other thing to consider. Stamina. If you think you don't have enough stamina now? You just wait. Pretty much every sigil uses stamina, mana, or both! The AS/DS/TD differences between GoS and CoL are pretty much nickle and dime, too.
If you haven't just been convinced to stick with CoL, here are a few benefits:
No more spirit loss!
There is a sigil that lets you ignore injuries. Too injured to hide? Too injured to search? Too injured to... anything? Bam, fixed. Finish up your hunt. This one is a personal favorite.
There is a sigil that lets you eat any herb with a 3 second RT. Need to regrow a limb? 3 seconds. You don't even need a single rank in first aid. I know this isn't really a 'big thing' with healing bots everywhere, but if you're out in the field trying to be self sufficient without having to run back like a little girl (or a paladin, no offense to little girls), you can take care of yourself instead.
Lets say you DO have first aid ranks, though. There is a sigil that lets your bandages stick even when you're flipping out on a horde of angry trolls mad about the way you looked at their sister.
There is a sigil that lets you hit harder. Yeah, you can add more damage or crit weighting to your ambushes. It stacks. That masterfully crit weighted katana is now more masterfullyer crit weighted.
There is a sigil that reduces stuff's EBP. There is a sigil that reduces stuff's AS/DS by 20. And by stuff I mean everything in the room (as long as it is susceptible, of course). I like doing both at the same time and laughing about it before mstriking.
Are you a magic rogue? Like to e-wave? There is a sigil that lets you convert that stamina you aren't using to mana (okay so this one hardly ever happens, as you'll never have extra stamina). There is a sigil that lets you get an extra 5 mana per pulse but the duration is so low you only get like 2-3 pulses before it wears off. We pretty much don't talk about that one.
And warcamps. You get to raid warcamps. I know some folks get bored with them but I still enjoy getting a chance to 'be a rogue' every once in a while. You can do a lot of the tasks without ever actually engaging the Grimswarm by being sneaking and taking advantage of the stealth mechanic (and you're going to need a LOT of it to stay hidden from the guards). You can sneak into the captive hut, divert guards away if they're present, tell him to follow you, hide, and escort him out while in the shadows. You can sneak into the treasure room and even if you don't have a key, you can disarm the chest, pick the lock, and make off with the objective before ever raising the alarm.
My favorite part? If you have to kill a shaman or a warchief, and you sneak into their hut undetected without the alarm being sounded, there will be no bodyguards with them. You basically get one free shot to try and take them out. If you mess up, the bodyguards will rush in as well as a handful of other grim, but hey... good times, right?
Sigil of Escape is nice, too. Even if the once-a-day emergency version will totally destroy you if you use it with nerve damage, and the emergency version won't even activate if you're jacked and don't have enough stamina to do so. It won't let you use it if it'll pop your muscles, so if you're in a bad situation and low on stamina it is going to be a no go and you're probably going to die.
The last nice thing is the whole having your character's soul back, I guess... but then he or she'll have to finally contend with the monster they've become.
.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.
The first thing you'll have to get used to is ... yes. The durations are horrible. They made some of them stackable (the TD sigil, for example), but even still. Compared to the other societies you are going to feel like you're constantly needing to refresh your main AS/DS/TD sigils. Make macros, make scripts, do what you gotta do... but that leads to the other thing to consider. Stamina. If you think you don't have enough stamina now? You just wait. Pretty much every sigil uses stamina, mana, or both! The AS/DS/TD differences between GoS and CoL are pretty much nickle and dime, too.
If you haven't just been convinced to stick with CoL, here are a few benefits:
No more spirit loss!
There is a sigil that lets you ignore injuries. Too injured to hide? Too injured to search? Too injured to... anything? Bam, fixed. Finish up your hunt. This one is a personal favorite.
There is a sigil that lets you eat any herb with a 3 second RT. Need to regrow a limb? 3 seconds. You don't even need a single rank in first aid. I know this isn't really a 'big thing' with healing bots everywhere, but if you're out in the field trying to be self sufficient without having to run back like a little girl (or a paladin, no offense to little girls), you can take care of yourself instead.
Lets say you DO have first aid ranks, though. There is a sigil that lets your bandages stick even when you're flipping out on a horde of angry trolls mad about the way you looked at their sister.
There is a sigil that lets you hit harder. Yeah, you can add more damage or crit weighting to your ambushes. It stacks. That masterfully crit weighted katana is now more masterfullyer crit weighted.
There is a sigil that reduces stuff's EBP. There is a sigil that reduces stuff's AS/DS by 20. And by stuff I mean everything in the room (as long as it is susceptible, of course). I like doing both at the same time and laughing about it before mstriking.
Are you a magic rogue? Like to e-wave? There is a sigil that lets you convert that stamina you aren't using to mana (okay so this one hardly ever happens, as you'll never have extra stamina). There is a sigil that lets you get an extra 5 mana per pulse but the duration is so low you only get like 2-3 pulses before it wears off. We pretty much don't talk about that one.
And warcamps. You get to raid warcamps. I know some folks get bored with them but I still enjoy getting a chance to 'be a rogue' every once in a while. You can do a lot of the tasks without ever actually engaging the Grimswarm by being sneaking and taking advantage of the stealth mechanic (and you're going to need a LOT of it to stay hidden from the guards). You can sneak into the captive hut, divert guards away if they're present, tell him to follow you, hide, and escort him out while in the shadows. You can sneak into the treasure room and even if you don't have a key, you can disarm the chest, pick the lock, and make off with the objective before ever raising the alarm.
My favorite part? If you have to kill a shaman or a warchief, and you sneak into their hut undetected without the alarm being sounded, there will be no bodyguards with them. You basically get one free shot to try and take them out. If you mess up, the bodyguards will rush in as well as a handful of other grim, but hey... good times, right?
Sigil of Escape is nice, too. Even if the once-a-day emergency version will totally destroy you if you use it with nerve damage, and the emergency version won't even activate if you're jacked and don't have enough stamina to do so. It won't let you use it if it'll pop your muscles, so if you're in a bad situation and low on stamina it is going to be a no go and you're probably going to die.
The last nice thing is the whole having your character's soul back, I guess... but then he or she'll have to finally contend with the monster they've become.
.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.
Great run-down of GoS! A few personal thoughts...
<<<There is a sigil that lets you ignore injuries. Too injured to hide? Too injured to search? Too injured to... anything? Bam, fixed. Finish up your hunt. This one is a personal favorite.>>>
Totally agree, especially as an archer. If you break an arm, you can't shoot...unless you're in GoS! Awesome.
<<<There is a sigil that lets you eat any herb with a 3 second RT.>>>
This is probably my personal favorite and most often used. It also increases your healing rate pretty significantly. Add haste or tonis and you're down to 1 second per bite. Fantastic.
<<<There is a sigil that lets you get an extra 5 mana per pulse but the duration is so low you only get like 2-3 pulses before it wears off. We pretty much don't talk about that one.>>>
I could see where rogues might not get much mileage out of this, but my bard uses it almost constantly. It lasts 10 minutes flat, so that's about 5 pulses, which adds up to roughly the same mana gain as Sigil of Power...but for less stamina, and a gradual return instead of instant. Combine them and it really adds up. These two abilities changed my bard's life drastically.
<<<Sigil of Escape is nice, too.>>>
It's saved my skin a couple times, and proven very convenient in certain situations. On the other hand, it's failed to save me, too. But them's the breaks. A chance is better than no chance at all...
~ Auntia and friends
<<<There is a sigil that lets you ignore injuries. Too injured to hide? Too injured to search? Too injured to... anything? Bam, fixed. Finish up your hunt. This one is a personal favorite.>>>
Totally agree, especially as an archer. If you break an arm, you can't shoot...unless you're in GoS! Awesome.
<<<There is a sigil that lets you eat any herb with a 3 second RT.>>>
This is probably my personal favorite and most often used. It also increases your healing rate pretty significantly. Add haste or tonis and you're down to 1 second per bite. Fantastic.
<<<There is a sigil that lets you get an extra 5 mana per pulse but the duration is so low you only get like 2-3 pulses before it wears off. We pretty much don't talk about that one.>>>
I could see where rogues might not get much mileage out of this, but my bard uses it almost constantly. It lasts 10 minutes flat, so that's about 5 pulses, which adds up to roughly the same mana gain as Sigil of Power...but for less stamina, and a gradual return instead of instant. Combine them and it really adds up. These two abilities changed my bard's life drastically.
<<<Sigil of Escape is nice, too.>>>
It's saved my skin a couple times, and proven very convenient in certain situations. On the other hand, it's failed to save me, too. But them's the breaks. A chance is better than no chance at all...
~ Auntia and friends
Yeah I think the comparison as others have already stated is:
CoL - limited powers, top in absolute AS/DS, conveniently long durations, doesn't use stamina, spirit drop impacts combat
GoS - wide range of powers, weighting/padding for combat, inconveniently short duration, uses stamina, no spirit drop, warcamps
For my dwarf monk CoL has been a nice choice since it allows him to use his stamina pool to keep up burst/surge and feint all day long, plus his spirit regen keeps his CoL powers up indefinitely. At the end of the day I'd say it comes to convenience, he can put up :isigns at the beginning of a hunt and forget about it unless he's bleeding. The ability to have essentially unlimited stamina/society signs is very nice for him, but if he were another race/class combination then I'd probably go with GoS/Voln.
The main thing I'm jealous of is warcamps, but a solo monk can't deal with crowds well anyway.
Looking at the sigils in GoS I see one fundamental issue...having to renew certain sigils every 60 seconds. This seems like it would be, not only annoying
The only character I have left in COL is my sorcerer and he is there only for mechanics
As for your statement above, I highlighted the messaging when those sigils drop. The basic AS/DS one will last 5 min. The other will last a minute. Really it isn't a big deal to launch them. I see them drop and hit a macro.
It isn't annoying as everyone says. It just becomes part of the hunting routine.
I thought I would miss Sign of Staunching. But Sigil of Mending will last 10 min. This is long enough really to keep running during a hunt.
The one that lets you search and hunt with a level 2 wound is Sigil of Determination.
One sigil the others didn't mention: Sigil of Escape. OH HECK I am going to DIE! Sigil of Escape Confirm will teleport you to a relatively safe distance and give you a chance to live another day. Yes you can use it once every 24 hrs, but Sign of Darkness can't be used when you are stunned, webbed, stuck in round time....
Peace
Zhelas
(Lord Paladin walks around Droit examining his equipment.)
Lord Paladin: How does he....How does he work?
The only character I have left in COL is my sorcerer and he is there only for mechanics
As for your statement above, I highlighted the messaging when those sigils drop. The basic AS/DS one will last 5 min. The other will last a minute. Really it isn't a big deal to launch them. I see them drop and hit a macro.
It isn't annoying as everyone says. It just becomes part of the hunting routine.
I thought I would miss Sign of Staunching. But Sigil of Mending will last 10 min. This is long enough really to keep running during a hunt.
The one that lets you search and hunt with a level 2 wound is Sigil of Determination.
One sigil the others didn't mention: Sigil of Escape. OH HECK I am going to DIE! Sigil of Escape Confirm will teleport you to a relatively safe distance and give you a chance to live another day. Yes you can use it once every 24 hrs, but Sign of Darkness can't be used when you are stunned, webbed, stuck in round time....
Peace
Zhelas
(Lord Paladin walks around Droit examining his equipment.)
Lord Paladin: How does he....How does he work?
>weighting/padding for combat
thought this was only against hated foes...which is probably not a bad thing since part of my objective is necro energy build up from war camps.
>The main thing I'm jealous of is war camps, but a solo monk can't deal with crowds well anyway.
This is another issue I'm worried about. When I used to go in war camps with friends I had zero fun...sorcerer ran out of mana...rogue was too slow and couldn't deal with the swarms...especially once field spells started to blow back.
>As for your statement above, I highlighted the messaging when those sigils drop. The basic AS/DS one will last 5 min. The other will last a minute. Really it isn't a big deal to launch them. I see them drop and hit a macro.
since I MA, I'm sure I'll script rather than macro, but you're right...not a big issue as long as I don't run too low on stamina. I guess I need to do some real math on this issue before I make a final decision.
>I could see where rogues might not get much mileage out of this, but my bard uses it almost constantly. It lasts 10 minutes flat
if I have the spare stamina for it..it might be good for mana battery purposes.
>Sigil of Escape is nice, too.
This is a big attraction. Sorcerer doesn't die often, but when it does happen, it is annoying as hell having the rogue standing over his corpse completely helpless to get him back to town.
As I see it, there are a lot of big advantages to GoS, and only my own laziness as an advantage of CoL...well that and my fundamental dislike of change...I strongly suspect I'll end up going that route eventually. Maybe once the rogue learns shrouds...
Thanks to all for their input, and any more insights you or others might still have.
--Jurp
thought this was only against hated foes...which is probably not a bad thing since part of my objective is necro energy build up from war camps.
>The main thing I'm jealous of is war camps, but a solo monk can't deal with crowds well anyway.
This is another issue I'm worried about. When I used to go in war camps with friends I had zero fun...sorcerer ran out of mana...rogue was too slow and couldn't deal with the swarms...especially once field spells started to blow back.
>As for your statement above, I highlighted the messaging when those sigils drop. The basic AS/DS one will last 5 min. The other will last a minute. Really it isn't a big deal to launch them. I see them drop and hit a macro.
since I MA, I'm sure I'll script rather than macro, but you're right...not a big issue as long as I don't run too low on stamina. I guess I need to do some real math on this issue before I make a final decision.
>I could see where rogues might not get much mileage out of this, but my bard uses it almost constantly. It lasts 10 minutes flat
if I have the spare stamina for it..it might be good for mana battery purposes.
>Sigil of Escape is nice, too.
This is a big attraction. Sorcerer doesn't die often, but when it does happen, it is annoying as hell having the rogue standing over his corpse completely helpless to get him back to town.
As I see it, there are a lot of big advantages to GoS, and only my own laziness as an advantage of CoL...well that and my fundamental dislike of change...I strongly suspect I'll end up going that route eventually. Maybe once the rogue learns shrouds...
Thanks to all for their input, and any more insights you or others might still have.
--Jurp
| >weighting/padding for combat |
| thought this was only against hated foes...which is probably not a bad thing since part of my objective is necro energy build up from war camps. |
Weighting is only vs hated enemies and grim. Padding is vs everything.
Another thing, GoS is the only way (so far) to get weighting on bolts. Yes, the weighting works for bolt spells. Unfortunately, it does not work for CS spells.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
<<This is a big attraction. Sorcerer doesn't die often, but when it does happen, it is annoying as hell having the rogue standing over his corpse completely helpless to get him back to town.>>>
Hearing this, I wouldn't entirely discount Voln. Sigil of Escape won't help with rescues...only Voln fogging can handle groups. You've also got Symbol of Preservation (lifekeep) which can be used on yourself and others (even while dead). Symbol of Need is always useful for calling help. Symbol of Transcendence can save your bacon by allowing you to become noncorporeal for a brief time (so you won't get critted while you're incapacitated--saved my life many times). Symbol of Mana is an instant 50 mana. If you have lots of deeds and favor, you can use it multiple times with no impact on your combat ability or stamina. The AS/DS from courage/protection is along the lines of GoS, but much better against undead with Symbol of Supremacy. You can bless your own gear, and if you use UAC you don't need a bless at all. Got a swarm of undead nasties? Symbol of Turning can quite impressively incapacitate or kill large swarms. Just lost all your spells when you died? No worries, Symbol of Recall will put them all back once you're raised. And if you're suffering from Death's Sting, just take a nap with Symbol of Dreams and you'll be good as new in no time.
Of course, GoS is awesome in its own right, and more combat-oriented. The crit weighting and padding, although of short duration, is really really nice. And I've already mentioned some of the other things I love. Sigil of Mending for 3 sec. herb use and fast health recovery, the mana sigils, Sigil of Determination to keep fighting when disabled, Sigil of Resolve for help with climbing, swimming and survival (I use that a lot, too)...and all the other stuff.
And then again, CoL is still great for all the reasons you already know.
Sorry, I know I'm not making it any easier. :) But having masters of all the societies, I've come to appreciate each of them for their strengths and weaknesses. And I can't entirely discount the RP side of the equation, either. Sometimes it's worth being in the "wrong" group if it plays a fundamental role in your RP. So there's that to consider. Bottom line, they're all good. They all have their ups and downs.
~ Auntia and her unhelpful friends :)
Hearing this, I wouldn't entirely discount Voln. Sigil of Escape won't help with rescues...only Voln fogging can handle groups. You've also got Symbol of Preservation (lifekeep) which can be used on yourself and others (even while dead). Symbol of Need is always useful for calling help. Symbol of Transcendence can save your bacon by allowing you to become noncorporeal for a brief time (so you won't get critted while you're incapacitated--saved my life many times). Symbol of Mana is an instant 50 mana. If you have lots of deeds and favor, you can use it multiple times with no impact on your combat ability or stamina. The AS/DS from courage/protection is along the lines of GoS, but much better against undead with Symbol of Supremacy. You can bless your own gear, and if you use UAC you don't need a bless at all. Got a swarm of undead nasties? Symbol of Turning can quite impressively incapacitate or kill large swarms. Just lost all your spells when you died? No worries, Symbol of Recall will put them all back once you're raised. And if you're suffering from Death's Sting, just take a nap with Symbol of Dreams and you'll be good as new in no time.
Of course, GoS is awesome in its own right, and more combat-oriented. The crit weighting and padding, although of short duration, is really really nice. And I've already mentioned some of the other things I love. Sigil of Mending for 3 sec. herb use and fast health recovery, the mana sigils, Sigil of Determination to keep fighting when disabled, Sigil of Resolve for help with climbing, swimming and survival (I use that a lot, too)...and all the other stuff.
And then again, CoL is still great for all the reasons you already know.
Sorry, I know I'm not making it any easier. :) But having masters of all the societies, I've come to appreciate each of them for their strengths and weaknesses. And I can't entirely discount the RP side of the equation, either. Sometimes it's worth being in the "wrong" group if it plays a fundamental role in your RP. So there's that to consider. Bottom line, they're all good. They all have their ups and downs.
~ Auntia and her unhelpful friends :)
Sigil of Major Protection: Adds +10 DS and grants heavy critical padding. This is nice because the heavy crit padding will stack on pre existing padding already on the armor. Sure it lasts 60 seconds.. but I run it just as creatures charge in or if i am searching for bandits.
Many of the sunfisters will wear items that will either increase their stamina or increase the rate of their stamina is returned.
My ranger will launch sigil of concentration and sigil of mending before entering a camp. One helps keep him fresh with mana and the other will help versus some of the nicks and cuts he gets while hunting there.
If COL were to get hit by a nerf bat, I would move my sorcerer into Sunfist. Area web is nice because the grimswarm will fall into the web trap. Mass Evil Eye is nice. If you have enough MOC, Focused Implosion can stun the surrounding grim. I would have him use a lot of fire spirit rods.
If you hunt in a group, as long as your character hits a grimswarm, you will get prestige if someone else kills it.
Sure you may die a lot in the beginning. One just has to adjust to a slightly new hunting style and recognize when the tide of battle is no longer in your favor.
The
Peace
Zhelas
(Lord Paladin walks around Droit examining his equipment.)
Lord Paladin: How does he....How does he work?
Many of the sunfisters will wear items that will either increase their stamina or increase the rate of their stamina is returned.
My ranger will launch sigil of concentration and sigil of mending before entering a camp. One helps keep him fresh with mana and the other will help versus some of the nicks and cuts he gets while hunting there.
If COL were to get hit by a nerf bat, I would move my sorcerer into Sunfist. Area web is nice because the grimswarm will fall into the web trap. Mass Evil Eye is nice. If you have enough MOC, Focused Implosion can stun the surrounding grim. I would have him use a lot of fire spirit rods.
If you hunt in a group, as long as your character hits a grimswarm, you will get prestige if someone else kills it.
Sure you may die a lot in the beginning. One just has to adjust to a slightly new hunting style and recognize when the tide of battle is no longer in your favor.
The
Peace
Zhelas
(Lord Paladin walks around Droit examining his equipment.)
Lord Paladin: How does he....How does he work?
>Hearing this, I wouldn't entirely discount Voln. Sigil of Escape won't help with rescues...only Voln fogging can handle groups.
Wasn't aware of this. Thanks. Sorcerer is already voln...with near enough to infinite favor, so covered on the preservation and need. The big deterrent to taking the rogue voln is that all the undead in the temple are non-corp...which is a pain in the rear for an ambushing OHE rogue.
>If COL were to get hit by a nerf bat, I would
...instantly move my rogue to Sunfist.
--Jurp
Wasn't aware of this. Thanks. Sorcerer is already voln...with near enough to infinite favor, so covered on the preservation and need. The big deterrent to taking the rogue voln is that all the undead in the temple are non-corp...which is a pain in the rear for an ambushing OHE rogue.
>If COL were to get hit by a nerf bat, I would
...instantly move my rogue to Sunfist.
--Jurp
<<<You still need to bless your gear with UAC if you want them to flare and give enchant bonuses to UAF. Held UAC friendly weapons if not blessed will also hinder your attacks I think. Its still nice though.>>>
Held UAC weapons will still hinder attacks, blessed or not. They just don't add anything to your attack against undead if not blessed. By blessed and flaring I assume you mean holy flares, which would be accurate. Naturally flaring UAC gear can't be blessed, though, and won't flare against undead under any circumstances. But the point is, you don't need blessed gear as a Voln brawler, which I think is pretty slick. I usually opt to bless my gear, anyway, but it probably wouldn't slow me down much if I didn't, and would save some favor.
I fear we may have gotten a bit off topic, however. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
Held UAC weapons will still hinder attacks, blessed or not. They just don't add anything to your attack against undead if not blessed. By blessed and flaring I assume you mean holy flares, which would be accurate. Naturally flaring UAC gear can't be blessed, though, and won't flare against undead under any circumstances. But the point is, you don't need blessed gear as a Voln brawler, which I think is pretty slick. I usually opt to bless my gear, anyway, but it probably wouldn't slow me down much if I didn't, and would save some favor.
I fear we may have gotten a bit off topic, however. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
I think you mean the MM modifier penalty that all UAC friendly gear has depending on its "class", what I meant is an additional penalty for held UAC friendly weapons if not blessed for undead. When you attack you get a message that "A XXX hinders your attack" or something along those lines. So yes, they do hinder your attack if not blessed when using UAC with Voln. If blessed they only give the base MM modifier penalty and do contribute to your attack DF/UAF as usual and give holy water flares if present.
However, your worn gloves/boots if not blessed do not give you an additional penalty but do not contribute their enchant bonus to your UAF (yes you're right that you can't bless flared gear, I mispoke). So stow your held UAC friendly weapon if not blessed when attacking undead, if they are blessed then they work as per usual. I know its a bit off topic, but just wanted to make sure folks knew the limitations of the Voln unblessed UAC ability. My little monk found it out the hard way heh. :)
>> "A XXX hinders your attack" or something along those lines<<
I think I get that message for every UCS attack when I'm holding a knuckle blade. I quit using weapons because of that so I might be missing a piece to the puzzle. Don't ALL weapons hinder UCS to some degree and have the messaging to go with it?
I think I get that message for every UCS attack when I'm holding a knuckle blade. I quit using weapons because of that so I might be missing a piece to the puzzle. Don't ALL weapons hinder UCS to some degree and have the messaging to go with it?
<<<I think you mean the MM modifier penalty that all UAC friendly gear has depending on its "class", what I meant is an additional penalty for held UAC friendly weapons if not blessed for undead. When you attack you get a message that "A XXX hinders your attack" or something along those lines. So yes, they do hinder your attack if not blessed when using UAC with Voln. If blessed they only give the base MM modifier penalty and do contribute to your attack DF/UAF as usual and give holy water flares if present.>>>
You get the "attack is hindered" message only if it's not blessed, but the hindrance to MM is the same either way. There's no additional penalty if it's not blessed, that I can see. The only difference is that it won't add to your UAF.
In my opinion, holding a weapon doesn't add enough to UAF to offset the penalty to MM. You'll get a lot more mileage out of a blessed set of handwraps.
~ Heathyr and friends
You get the "attack is hindered" message only if it's not blessed, but the hindrance to MM is the same either way. There's no additional penalty if it's not blessed, that I can see. The only difference is that it won't add to your UAF.
In my opinion, holding a weapon doesn't add enough to UAF to offset the penalty to MM. You'll get a lot more mileage out of a blessed set of handwraps.
~ Heathyr and friends
No, you get an additional penalty to MM if holding an unblessed UAC friendly weapon when attacking undead. That's why you are getting the "attack is hindered" message, its as if you were holding a claid while punching normally (though a claid would have a much bigger penalty). Be sure to stow your weapon if you get that message.
Its iffy, I think the lightest class of UAC friendly weapons can be worth it if you aren't routinely hitting the capped ratio. A high enchant bonus to UAF plus flares/weighting can exceed downsides of the -5 MM penalty, but yeah its really hard to say either way. Unless its a really nice weapon and/or you need it for things like feint then its probably best not to use any weapons. You also lose out to parrying arrows and disarming on parry from 1214 (you can still disarm if the weapon hits your arm).
>I think I get that message for every UCS attack when I'm holding a knuckle blade. I quit using weapons because of that so I might be missing a piece to the puzzle. Don't ALL weapons hinder UCS to some degree and have the messaging to go with it?
You shouldn't be getting that message from a UCS friendly weapon unless you are attacking undead and the weapon is not blessed.
<<<No, you get an additional penalty to MM if holding an unblessed UAC friendly weapon when attacking undead. That's why you are getting the "attack is hindered" message, its as if you were holding a claid while punching normally (though a claid would have a much bigger penalty). Be sure to stow your weapon if you get that message.>>>
That is not my experience. Look at the numbers and see if you're right. For me, whether the weapon is blessed or not, my MM while using it is the same. Check it out.
~ Heathyr and friends
That is not my experience. Look at the numbers and see if you're right. For me, whether the weapon is blessed or not, my MM while using it is the same. Check it out.
~ Heathyr and friends
MM is a range that is adjusted with penalties/bonuses, it can be tough to tell sometimes. However anytime you get the "hindered" message you are receiving an additional penalty. Below is Finros talking about this situation in a thread awhile back:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Unarmed%20Combat/thread/1477505?get_newest=true
>2) If I am using my Voln ability to hunt undead with UAC, do these held brawling weapons need to be blessed?
If you want those weapons to confer any special abilities on the undead, then yes. You can always strike them with the appropriate Voln rank, but the equipment may hinder rather than help when it isn't blessed as well.
...
>Just to be clear with the Voln step 8 blessed attacks power. Your gloves/boots do not have to be blessed, but any held UCS weapons do need to be blessed. Aye?
When you have reached Kai's Strike, you will always be able to hit undead with an unarmed attack. Equipment which cannot hit the undead will not confer any benefit to the attack. In the case of gloves and boots, there is no penalty. In the case of held brawling weapons, there will be a penalty because they are not being used in the attack.
If you're messaged about a weapon hindering your attack, it is giving you zero offensive benefit, and some amount of penalty.
<<<MM is a range that is adjusted with penalties/bonuses, it can be tough to tell sometimes. However anytime you get the "hindered" message you are receiving an additional penalty. Below is Finros talking about this situation in a thread awhile back:>>>
I hear what you're saying and read Finros's comments, but I wish you'd just go try it out and tell me if you can see a difference. I think the message is misleading because the MM penalty appears the same either way. Finros stated that the UAC weapon may hinder instead of help when unblessed because it's not adding its bonus to your attack. When it's blessed, however, the weapon still has the same MM penalty--you simply get the benefit of it adding to your attack. See what I mean? Same MM penalty either way, but it only helps when blessed, otherwise all you get is the penalty.
Just go try it out and tell me I'm wrong. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
I hear what you're saying and read Finros's comments, but I wish you'd just go try it out and tell me if you can see a difference. I think the message is misleading because the MM penalty appears the same either way. Finros stated that the UAC weapon may hinder instead of help when unblessed because it's not adding its bonus to your attack. When it's blessed, however, the weapon still has the same MM penalty--you simply get the benefit of it adding to your attack. See what I mean? Same MM penalty either way, but it only helps when blessed, otherwise all you get is the penalty.
Just go try it out and tell me I'm wrong. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
<<Way off...even by my standards. I'm not even sure where the UAC conversation materialized from.>>>
Guilty as charged. I think it stemmed from a comparison of the virtues of Voln vs. Sunfist, and how Voln UAC people could hit undead without a blessed weapon. It just sort of ambled off from there. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
Guilty as charged. I think it stemmed from a comparison of the virtues of Voln vs. Sunfist, and how Voln UAC people could hit undead without a blessed weapon. It just sort of ambled off from there. :)
~ Heathyr and friends
>>You can sneak into the captive hut, divert guards away if they're present, tell him to follow you, hide, and escort him out while in the shadows.<<
Actually, you can sneak right past the guards and the official will follow, and they won't attack the official as long as they don't sense you and raise the alarm.
Probably a bug that should be addressed...
Also, yea, GoS is unbelievable for a rogue. It's just so versatile.
-E
Actually, you can sneak right past the guards and the official will follow, and they won't attack the official as long as they don't sense you and raise the alarm.
Probably a bug that should be addressed...
Also, yea, GoS is unbelievable for a rogue. It's just so versatile.
-E
