UAC gloves and weighting on 03/31/2014 04:37 PM CDT
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Ok, so this is strange.

I've managed to spend a lot of time and money creating some masterful weighted UAC gloves. They seem to have the same ability to damage, stun, etc as my non-weighted gloves. Can someone please let me know how weighting on gloves is supposed to work as they assess as masterful crit weighting but I can't see the benefit.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 03/31/2014 08:20 PM CDT
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20 point crit weighted, Triton Bane crit weighted for a total of 30-32 points of crit weighting plus ambush.

You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 523 = 1.267 * MM: 102 + d100: 33 = 162
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Solid blow to the jaw leaves the triton combatant spitting blood... and teeth!
The triton combatant chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A triton combatant briefly combs the shadows.
A triton combatant glances furtively around the area.
HR>pun
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 507 = 1.307 * MM: 101 + d100: 23 = 155
... and hit for 43 points of damage!
Swift, repeated blows fracture several vertebrae over the triton combatant's back!

Necrotic energy from your white leather handwraps overflows into you!

You feel healed!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

NON-Crit Weighted Handwraps for comparison

You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 648 vs UDF: 523 = 1.239 * MM: 105 + d100: 5 = 135
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Spinning backfist snaps the triton combatant's head to the side!

Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
R>hi
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HR>
A triton combatant sits down and begins to apply some crude first aid to herself.
H>pun
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 648 vs UDF: 490 = 1.322 * MM: 112 + d100: 65 = 213
... and hit for 51 points of damage!
Palm strike to face drives nose straight into brain!
The triton combatant collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on her face before expiring.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 12:42 PM CDT
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Is there a question attached to this demonstration? If you are saying that you don't see that much difference in crit results between the weighted and unweighted gloves, is it possible that your ambush skill is great enough that you are getting maximum or close to maximum crit rank even without a weighted weapon? That could happen, I suspect. Try attacking from the open and see if there is a difference when you aren't getting the crit rank push up from ambushing.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 03:52 PM CDT
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Didn't consider the possibility of a ceiling on crit weighting with ambush. Likewise I didn't consider that with 30 points of crit weighting vs tritons and hated foes I would have to worry about a crit ceiling protecting those full plate wearing types that I got the crit weighting for in the first place.

30 points crit weighting (masterful + major bane)

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have good positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 600 vs UDF: 226 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 47 + d100: 56 = 150
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Strong strike leaves a bloody gash on the troll chieftain's right calf.
The troll chieftain is knocked to the ground!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 625 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 30 = 114
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Awkward punch gently brushes the left thigh. It's like a first date!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 600 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 81 = 165
... and hit for 53 points of damage!
Blindingly fast hook smashes right knee beyond any hope of repair. If it's worth doing, it's worth over-doing!
A jungle troll chieftain screams and falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 600 vs UDF: 216 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 46 + d100: 80 = 172
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Rotating backhand cleanly snaps tibia!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
The troll chieftain starts to favor her wounded leg!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 600 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 43 = 127
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the troll chieftain's right leg fractures the fibula.
The troll chieftain is knocked to the ground!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 600 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 46 + d100: 99 = 191
... and hit for 58 points of damage!
Blindingly fast hook smashes right knee beyond any hope of repair. If it's worth doing, it's worth over-doing!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.


no weighting

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have good positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 78 = 162
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with right shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The troll chieftain is knocked to the ground!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have good positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 37 + d100: 83 = 157
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Descending fist ends its arc against right knee, sending the troll chieftain stumbling back. Once smitten, twice shy!
The troll chieftain starts to favor her wounded leg!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 216 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 46 + d100: 66 = 158
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Furious fast fist forces fibula fracture! Foot flies free, falling forward five feet forth!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 216 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 46 + d100: 77 = 169
... and hit for 50 points of damage!
Furious fast fist forces fibula fracture! Foot flies free, falling forward five feet forth!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 236 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 99 = 183
... and hit for 53 points of damage!
Furious fast fist forces fibula fracture! Foot flies free, falling forward five feet forth!
A jungle troll chieftain screams and falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

You make a precise attempt to punch a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 585 vs UDF: 227 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 42 + d100: 34 = 118
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Well executed strike to the troll chieftain's right leg fractures the fibula.
A jungle troll chieftain screams and falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 05:31 PM CDT
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Hunting like-level bandits with 20 points of crit weighting vs no crit weighting on gloves, punches appear to have no increased proficiency either for open strikes.

I really would like to hear why crit weighted wraps appear to have no benefit. If this is intended it ought have been made clear I would not have put three services of crit weighting on gloves.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 08:13 PM CDT
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Yes, it sure looks like you aren't seeing any real benefit. I'd put in an assist and also complain directly to Simu via e-mail. It is possible that hand and footwraps aren't classified as weapons, since they are just augmenting your natural punches. Seems a bit contradictory, since the 0x ones can be e-bladed, but again, this might be semantics; in the latter case, they might be considered a conduit transferring elemental energy to your fists.

Of course, the more likely probability is that, the UAC being so new a combat system, no provision was made for weighting on the UAC equipment. A "minor" oversight, if you will. If this is the case, Simu should correct it ASAP; or at the very least, give you a refund for whatever you paid for that process.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 09:00 PM CDT
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>Can someone please let me know how weighting on gloves is supposed to work as they assess as masterful crit weighting but I can't see the benefit.

Weighting on unarmed equipment is assessed at the full value in an attack where no other equipment is used, and at half value in an attack where other equipment is used (other equipment meaning held unarmed weapons). As with melee weapons, there is randomization in the final crit determination.

If you're regularly hitting the top of the critical range -- which isn't too unlikely if you're ambushing and have moderate to good endrolls -- then naturally the weighting won't matter as much. Again, this is the same way it works with melee.

In any case, I retrieved a copy of your gloves and tested them just to be thorough; the weighting works as expected. How much use it is in your hunting style is something that I can't answer for you, of course.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 09:51 PM CDT
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I hunt either empty handed, or with a buckler in my off hand. If it's possible i'd like to know if you'd give me a few minutes of your time to watch me punch a grim in the head. Just for posterity. Thanks for your quick response though, I still feel like my open punches with the plain 7x UAC gloves are hitting the same as the 8x MCW (plus 10 more points vs hated foes or tritons).

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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 09:57 PM CDT
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Could it be the crit weighting is applying itself to the DF of an empty handed ATTACK vs being applied to the DF of an empty handed PUNCH?
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 10:02 PM CDT
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One other question, since it was brought up, is crit randomization a system that functions differently from damage weighting randomization and both types of padding randomization?
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/01/2014 11:51 PM CDT
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Hang on a minute; I just noticed that these are jungle trolls, which are significantly lower than tritions in level. I am not proficient at interpreting the numbers from UAC combat, but I do note that the UAF vs UDF comparison results from your clips of that combat have reached the cap limit of 2.00. Is it possible that this is preventing the weighting from activating?

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 09:17 AM CDT
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Its probably just a limit of the tiered UAC system. Even with crit weighting you are gonna hit the ceiling of the tier you are in. I would guess randomization kicks in after that ceiling instead of before. Granted, i dont know the formula for UAC crit randomization but if it is 50% like the others even at tier 3 and a max crit rank randomization could reduce that down to a rank 5. Even if it was 75% you would have to max out your critical rank at tier 3 to guarantee a rank 8 (minimum crit kill)
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 09:43 AM CDT
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Something definitely seems off when using plain gloves vs 30 point crit weighting has the same effect in ambushing and open strikes.

I will post some Triton and Grimswarm results tonight after work.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 02:29 PM CDT
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I wonder if you would see a greater difference when using JAB. It seems like the weighting may have a greater impact with an attack that naturally puts out less damage and allows the weighting to "take over" as the more efficient aspect of the attack?

In theory, 30 points of weighting on a short sword would improve the short sword more than the same on a maul. The maul already hits hard enough in most cases, so the weighting isn't as efficient. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 04:27 PM CDT
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Not time for a full measure now but here's two shots. Appears as if the crit-weighting is superfluous on open, aimed jabs.

20 points Crit weighting jab vs jungle troll chieftan, excellent attempt.

You make a precise attempt to jab a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 610 vs UDF: 204 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 96 + d100: 7 = 199
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Hard jab to upper right leg fractures the tibia!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.



30 points Crit weighting jab vs jungle troll chieftan, excellent attempt.

As you concentrate on your sigil, you become much more aware of your foes and the most vulnerable portions of their bodies.

You make a precise attempt to jab a jungle troll chieftain!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll chieftain.
UAF: 620 vs UDF: 203 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 96 + d100: 22 = 214
... and hit for 26 points of damage!
Fantastic blow to right leg cracks femur and pushes it out through the skin!
The troll chieftain is stunned!
The troll chieftain starts to favor his wounded leg!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 04:41 PM CDT
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I'd posit that the stuns are confusing the results, since iirc, they're part of the criticals. Results without stuns (or sigils) would probably give the clearest view.

- Metadi
Speaking to Hadya, you scold, "You Luukosians and your altared realities."
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 04:41 PM CDT
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>I wonder if you would see a greater difference when using JAB. It seems like the weighting may have a greater impact with an attack that naturally puts out less damage and allows the weighting to "take over" as the more efficient aspect of the attack?

>In theory, 30 points of weighting on a short sword would improve the short sword more than the same on a maul. The maul already hits hard enough in most cases, so the weighting isn't as efficient. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

>-Marstreforn-
>Icemule Trace Guru
>Halfling Guru

I think it would be the opposite since UCS criticals are based on the endroll and not raw damage. In melee, a raw damage outcome of 15 would have a maximum crit rank of 3 vs cloth armor (crit divisor 5). Add 30 pts of crit weighting and the maximum crit rank increases to 9 (45/5) with an equal probability after randomization of a rank 5,6,7,8 or 9 outcome.

Unless USC critical weighting affects the tier-up chance (I don't know whether it does or not), then the maximum crit rank is contrained by the tier (decent: R5, good: R8 and excellent position R11).

Assume that the outcome of an attack with endroll 120 from decent position would have randomized to a rank 2 with Jab or Punch. Let's say that adding 30 phantom endrolls (ER 150) from the weighting increases the max crit rank to 5 for each and they each randomized to a rank 4. The increase in damage from a rank 2 to rank 4 Jab is less than the increase in damage from a rank 2 to rank 4 Punch.

Mark
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 05:03 PM CDT
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and just for fun, my sorcerer with no brawl training

0x 0 crit weighting no handwraps.

You make a precise attempt to jab a jungle troll!
You have excellent positioning against a jungle troll.
UAF: 113 vs UDF: 157 = 0.719 * MM: 100 + d100: 98 = 169
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Right foot smashed by quickly descending fist!
The jungle troll is knocked to the ground!
The jungle troll is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
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Re: UAC gloves and weighting on 04/02/2014 08:47 PM CDT
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After extensive study (and a much larger data pool) I must admit my error. I am sorry Finros, my mistake. While the weighting still appears low on non-ambushes with my zelnorn buckler in my offhhand (not sure if it counts the same as other bucklers, fully shield trained in focus, swiftness, and brawler), there is improvement over the non-weighted handwraps.

Again, thanks for the awesome UAC design! It's because of you I still enjoy physical combat on every hunt!
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