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I have a full set of jewlery/fluff location enhancives. That's 3 neck, 2 finger, 8 pin, 2 wrist, 1 ankle (to say nothing of the arm greaves and the head piece that is also part of the set). They are all part of a set, and serve a purpose. I use the term fluff rather loosely, in this instance, and I understand that enhancives don't count as fluff because they are considered to "serve a purpose".
Originally I had thought to get them all of my enhancives altered, so they fit with the character (instead of the chaos of non-matching materials and gems). What I realized though, was that even if I did this, I wouldn't be happy. Why? Because of the extra 4 lines of text they add to my character's description when I look at him. Who knows how that looks to other people, with their display/font/size settings.
I have seen the sentiment expressed in the past of 'I love my enhancives but I hate how they look'. I think a flag is the most appropriate and effective way of dealing with it. This flag would allow players to toggle on and off the display of all items, functional or otherwise, worn in the following locations - neck, finger, pin, wrist, and ankle.
I'd hate to see the solution to this problem be an item, because it'd probably be scripted, and thus auction/raffle only, and I think it's a poor design to make such changes that only a few will have access to, when the problem effects many players.
I also don't think it was an intention of the enhancive system to put players in a position to choose whether they can live with the way their character looks, or how their character performs, since the two systems are largely unrelated.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
>I'd hate to see the solution to this problem be an item, because it'd probably be scripted, and thus auction/raffle only, and I think it's a poor design to make such changes that only a few will have access to, when the problem effects many players. I also don't think it was an intention of the enhancive system to put players in a position to choose whether they can live with the way their character looks, or how their character performs, since the two systems are largely unrelated. - Ceyrin
I didn't make it that far down in your post in my original. I know, I know. I'm a skimmer. I deleted my posts and rewrote them to better address your arguments.
To be honest, why would GMs want to give away something for free when they can charge for it? I know that's not what you want to hear, but if it is a choice between having it in limited/auction form, or not at all, which would you prefer?
A few options would be to release a sash(or something) which can hold pin-worn enhancives and still allow them to remain active. Only the sash would be seen. There are similar items for non-enhancive jewelry. A psuedo-layered clothing option would be nice too. Perhaps a cloak can be scripted to hide enhancives much like hoods were added to cloaks to hide features. This would be an EXTREMELY sought after service with no mechanical benefit. The best kind of service, right?
As to Fashion Vs Function, that battle is one that has been fought since the inception of GS, i'm afraid. At least some staff as well as many players see this hit to one's fashion sense as a measure of balance to enhancives ... which is dumb, but there it is. For what it's worth, I agree with you that being able to hide enhancives from one's inventory would be a great release.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
I didn't make it that far down in your post in my original. I know, I know. I'm a skimmer. I deleted my posts and rewrote them to better address your arguments.
To be honest, why would GMs want to give away something for free when they can charge for it? I know that's not what you want to hear, but if it is a choice between having it in limited/auction form, or not at all, which would you prefer?
A few options would be to release a sash(or something) which can hold pin-worn enhancives and still allow them to remain active. Only the sash would be seen. There are similar items for non-enhancive jewelry. A psuedo-layered clothing option would be nice too. Perhaps a cloak can be scripted to hide enhancives much like hoods were added to cloaks to hide features. This would be an EXTREMELY sought after service with no mechanical benefit. The best kind of service, right?
As to Fashion Vs Function, that battle is one that has been fought since the inception of GS, i'm afraid. At least some staff as well as many players see this hit to one's fashion sense as a measure of balance to enhancives ... which is dumb, but there it is. For what it's worth, I agree with you that being able to hide enhancives from one's inventory would be a great release.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
My work-around/solution to this problem is to have a script that removes all of my enhancives immediately after a hunt, and puts them back on as part of the pre-hunt spell up.
I completely agree that the wall of text 10+ enhancives causes is ugly, and nothing anyone bothers to read
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
I completely agree that the wall of text 10+ enhancives causes is ugly, and nothing anyone bothers to read
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
>My work-around/solution to this problem is to have a script that removes all of my enhancives immediately after a hunt, and puts them back on as part of the pre-hunt spell up.
Same here, along with my normal hunting partners. This does cause massive screen scroll (not to mention is conceptually ridiculous), but I try to move a few rooms off the beaten path before executing the script. It is less than an ideal fix by any means.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
Same here, along with my normal hunting partners. This does cause massive screen scroll (not to mention is conceptually ridiculous), but I try to move a few rooms off the beaten path before executing the script. It is less than an ideal fix by any means.
Evarin and his Mis'ri
| It is less than an ideal fix by any means |
I fully agree.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
>>I know that's not what you want to hear, but if it is a choice between having it in limited/auction form, or not at all, which would you prefer?
I'm a firm believer in none over a few. I think their release should be along the lines of the armor concealers or the pin sashes. I believe the original idea of making them so that they can all be removed or added in one fell swoop to be both amazing and logical.
I'm not asking for them to be free. I'd drop a mil per character to have this sort of item, merchant bought mind you, to clean my characters up. In my mind, that is the sort of silver drain that the game needs. Offer something of value and charge a price that is both attainable and significant and you can drain the silvers from bank accounts. Not so much the high end accounts, but most of the upper middle class could afford those and it be a significant drain.
~Galenok
I'm a firm believer in none over a few. I think their release should be along the lines of the armor concealers or the pin sashes. I believe the original idea of making them so that they can all be removed or added in one fell swoop to be both amazing and logical.
I'm not asking for them to be free. I'd drop a mil per character to have this sort of item, merchant bought mind you, to clean my characters up. In my mind, that is the sort of silver drain that the game needs. Offer something of value and charge a price that is both attainable and significant and you can drain the silvers from bank accounts. Not so much the high end accounts, but most of the upper middle class could afford those and it be a significant drain.
~Galenok
>>To be honest, why would GMs want to give away something for free when they can charge for it? I know that's not what you want to hear, but if it is a choice between having it in limited/auction form, or not at all, which would you prefer?<<
(TL;DR version for Evarin's player : This won't create a silver drain, and I'd rather not turn this in to a topic about gemstone economics, which is a dead-end topic in general.)
We'll just have to agree to disagree, on this. If it's a choice of not at all, or something everyone has access to, I'd rather see it not happen at all.
These sorts of services generally don't create silver drain. Hooded cloaks or armor concealers come to mind. These items are cheap off the shelves, and getting the merchant work done to them to make them as appealing as possible is likewise very cheap. 50,000 silvers from 12-20 people is not a silver drain.
The only thing these sorts of services cause is a silver shift. A handful of players end up with access to the service, and some of them bring their alts and soforth (this isn't a rant against MAs at merchants, merely a statement of reality). So now they resell something they got for 50-100k silver for several million. There's no silver drain there, only a shift in who's got them.
The only effective silver drains I've ever see in this game have been Dragon Bones, recharging enhancives via silvers at the end of the year, and GM created auctions (even those lockers at the FWI fest which didn't really have much of anything practical sold for several million silvers).
So, unless this can be something done with premium points, and premium points suddenly become purchasable with ingame silvers, I don't see any merchant innovation to solve this being anything more than a bandaid for the affluent.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
(TL;DR version for Evarin's player : This won't create a silver drain, and I'd rather not turn this in to a topic about gemstone economics, which is a dead-end topic in general.)
We'll just have to agree to disagree, on this. If it's a choice of not at all, or something everyone has access to, I'd rather see it not happen at all.
These sorts of services generally don't create silver drain. Hooded cloaks or armor concealers come to mind. These items are cheap off the shelves, and getting the merchant work done to them to make them as appealing as possible is likewise very cheap. 50,000 silvers from 12-20 people is not a silver drain.
The only thing these sorts of services cause is a silver shift. A handful of players end up with access to the service, and some of them bring their alts and soforth (this isn't a rant against MAs at merchants, merely a statement of reality). So now they resell something they got for 50-100k silver for several million. There's no silver drain there, only a shift in who's got them.
The only effective silver drains I've ever see in this game have been Dragon Bones, recharging enhancives via silvers at the end of the year, and GM created auctions (even those lockers at the FWI fest which didn't really have much of anything practical sold for several million silvers).
So, unless this can be something done with premium points, and premium points suddenly become purchasable with ingame silvers, I don't see any merchant innovation to solve this being anything more than a bandaid for the affluent.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
>>We do disagree that not doing it at all is better than limited release. Gemstone would be a boring place economically were this always true.<<
I'm just tired of bandaids to systems coming in the form of auction-quality items.
We'll never have a robust language system, most probably, due to the earcuff/statues that were released, even though several of those items are now in the ether anyway.
I could go on, but that's not really what this thread is about.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
I'm just tired of bandaids to systems coming in the form of auction-quality items.
We'll never have a robust language system, most probably, due to the earcuff/statues that were released, even though several of those items are now in the ether anyway.
I could go on, but that's not really what this thread is about.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
>>Gemstone would be a boring place economically were this always true.
It's only not boring for about 5-10% of the game population, Evarin. Even after 12 years, I find it to be boring. The haves will always have more, while the majority continue to wallow in 4x gear/quality of items. 5x flaring items are about the cap for most folks. So, I'd rather see items released in auctions that are auction quality. Not just in an auction/raffle because it is the only place where something scripted can be released (like those dwarven beard clips). Release something like that in an auction and you end up seeing it sold for 10's of millions when the reality is the value is only 1/10th or less of that.
~Galenok
It's only not boring for about 5-10% of the game population, Evarin. Even after 12 years, I find it to be boring. The haves will always have more, while the majority continue to wallow in 4x gear/quality of items. 5x flaring items are about the cap for most folks. So, I'd rather see items released in auctions that are auction quality. Not just in an auction/raffle because it is the only place where something scripted can be released (like those dwarven beard clips). Release something like that in an auction and you end up seeing it sold for 10's of millions when the reality is the value is only 1/10th or less of that.
~Galenok
for jewelry, enhancives, pin worns, and ring, wrist, ankle, and neckworns i would like to see bout makin it like tat's, if you wear appropriate coverup
tats are considered worn, and show up in inventory on current spots
they are "coverable" and "uncoverable" by clothing, bags, cloaks, etc and when shown you push aside something to let folk see em
why not have the choice to "push" something worn in that location and it's covered
then "pull" that same object if you want it part of the massive scroll that is your inventory
as a side, you could still see them yourself with a new command, inventory (fluff)
AND not have to remove clothings, covering, or "pull"ing if you wanted to remove said fluff
wear necklace
You put on a giant turtle shell necklace.
wear shirt
You put on a shirt.
push necklace
You slip your necklace beneath your shirt.
Inventory (fluff)
You are wearing a shirt, and a necklace (covered).
show necklace to (person)
You brandish your necklace for (person) to see!
pull necklace
You brandish your necklace for the world to see!
remove necklace (when covered)
You pull your shirt aside and remove your necklace.
Ps, i know i'm not wearing any pants!
tats are considered worn, and show up in inventory on current spots
they are "coverable" and "uncoverable" by clothing, bags, cloaks, etc and when shown you push aside something to let folk see em
why not have the choice to "push" something worn in that location and it's covered
then "pull" that same object if you want it part of the massive scroll that is your inventory
as a side, you could still see them yourself with a new command, inventory (fluff)
AND not have to remove clothings, covering, or "pull"ing if you wanted to remove said fluff
wear necklace
You put on a giant turtle shell necklace.
wear shirt
You put on a shirt.
push necklace
You slip your necklace beneath your shirt.
Inventory (fluff)
You are wearing a shirt, and a necklace (covered).
show necklace to (person)
You brandish your necklace for (person) to see!
pull necklace
You brandish your necklace for the world to see!
remove necklace (when covered)
You pull your shirt aside and remove your necklace.
Ps, i know i'm not wearing any pants!
>for jewelry, enhancives, pin worns, and ring, wrist, ankle, and neckworns i would like to see bout makin it like tat's, if you wear appropriate coverup
I really like this idea. I do have a rare few enhancives that i like to have showing, and a great many that don't come out until I'm ready to hunt, as mentioned above. The only problem with this may be with fluff items that are scripted with push/pull actions.
A "cover all" option wouldn't really be ideal for my characters, since they all wear pinworn shirts/bodices/tunics etc.
~Neico-face
I really like this idea. I do have a rare few enhancives that i like to have showing, and a great many that don't come out until I'm ready to hunt, as mentioned above. The only problem with this may be with fluff items that are scripted with push/pull actions.
A "cover all" option wouldn't really be ideal for my characters, since they all wear pinworn shirts/bodices/tunics etc.
~Neico-face
