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Just wanted to put a feeler out there... Do you feel attuning items to a player/account promote getting the right items to the right people, or just creates an unwanted obstacle?
~Wyrom, SGM
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I think that it creates the right attitude towards an item: "I can use it, so I'll enter to try to win it."
As opposed to the token-based Premium item giveaways in, I think 1999? "It is an item, and I want to make sure I get something... enter to try to win everything in order to get anything."
But.
Some times it suits an idea that you have, rather than an actual extant character. (I'm not saying that nobody's ever created a character for the sole purpose of using a particular item or not. But it could happen. Like with female dwarven clerics or something. I'm just saying.)
So to that extent, I'd rather see it done as an account-attuning, rather than character-attuning.
On the other hand, passing something to someone on the same account--particularly an attuned/linked item--is a giant pain in the ass, because, you know, you can't exactly hand it to someone.
So about that player-mail system...
But on the gripping hand, some times you also lose interest in a character/item/playing style. So it would be nice to be able to hand off an item that has grown stale, at some nebulous point in the future. I would not be averse to there being some amount of time limit built into items, so that the initial owner (by which I mean 'account') has to own it for at least, let's say four [4] years. After that, if sold/given/transferred, all subsequent owners must own it for at least two [2] years. It can still move around from hand to hand, but there's a long-term commitment to it.
And let's face, some people are going to be around until hell freezes over anyhow, so they'll be able to outlast whatever time limit is on any given item eventually. Again, just saying. :)
As opposed to the token-based Premium item giveaways in, I think 1999? "It is an item, and I want to make sure I get something... enter to try to win everything in order to get anything."
But.
Some times it suits an idea that you have, rather than an actual extant character. (I'm not saying that nobody's ever created a character for the sole purpose of using a particular item or not. But it could happen. Like with female dwarven clerics or something. I'm just saying.)
So to that extent, I'd rather see it done as an account-attuning, rather than character-attuning.
On the other hand, passing something to someone on the same account--particularly an attuned/linked item--is a giant pain in the ass, because, you know, you can't exactly hand it to someone.
So about that player-mail system...
But on the gripping hand, some times you also lose interest in a character/item/playing style. So it would be nice to be able to hand off an item that has grown stale, at some nebulous point in the future. I would not be averse to there being some amount of time limit built into items, so that the initial owner (by which I mean 'account') has to own it for at least, let's say four [4] years. After that, if sold/given/transferred, all subsequent owners must own it for at least two [2] years. It can still move around from hand to hand, but there's a long-term commitment to it.
And let's face, some people are going to be around until hell freezes over anyhow, so they'll be able to outlast whatever time limit is on any given item eventually. Again, just saying. :)
I understand the point of character/account attuning items, so people dont enter just to resell it. I just dont know if the rewards outdo the drawbacks of doing too many of these things.
Thinking about it though, I'd hate to see the day where too much stuff is locked into everyone, part of the fun of the game is winning things you dont necessarily want but your friend is dying for and being able to give it to them or saving up silvers to buy that one special item that will define your character. I think people see soandso win a 100million silver item and feel jealous and thats natural but if all the new uber items start to be attuned the economy of the game will grow stale.
Thinking about it though, I'd hate to see the day where too much stuff is locked into everyone, part of the fun of the game is winning things you dont necessarily want but your friend is dying for and being able to give it to them or saving up silvers to buy that one special item that will define your character. I think people see soandso win a 100million silver item and feel jealous and thats natural but if all the new uber items start to be attuned the economy of the game will grow stale.
Too much of an obstacle.
People change and what might be the most awesome item in the history of evar, today, might not be so awesome for that character tomorrow (for any number of reasons both RP or mechanical). I'd much rather see some items won at raffles only to be sold than, have more and more items lockered and never see the light of day. At least with unattuned stuff, it will likely end up in the hands of someone that can use it one way or another. One of my biggest memories of the AOL days was when a friend in game decided to leave, I was very sad about that, but he gave away all his stuff and it was like christmas for all the newbies around at the time. How sad would it be had that cool stuff go to the grave with them. I was just going through my lockers a few weeks ago and ran across the blood red bandana I was given (don't judge!), and it brought back fond memories.
People change and what might be the most awesome item in the history of evar, today, might not be so awesome for that character tomorrow (for any number of reasons both RP or mechanical). I'd much rather see some items won at raffles only to be sold than, have more and more items lockered and never see the light of day. At least with unattuned stuff, it will likely end up in the hands of someone that can use it one way or another. One of my biggest memories of the AOL days was when a friend in game decided to leave, I was very sad about that, but he gave away all his stuff and it was like christmas for all the newbies around at the time. How sad would it be had that cool stuff go to the grave with them. I was just going through my lockers a few weeks ago and ran across the blood red bandana I was given (don't judge!), and it brought back fond memories.
>> Just wanted to put a feeler out there... Do you feel attuning items to a player/account promote getting the right items to the right people, or just creates an unwanted obstacle?
- I am completely against player attuned items as a common theme unless you are planning to dramatically increase the quantity/inflow of 'super cool' items going forward to compensate for this restriction. I also feel that a general shift towards player attuned items would serve to lessen the benefit of being a premium account holder.
- Account attunement is a more appealing option (as a premium player). It would serve to reduce the number of folks entering raffles to turn a profit without penalizing premium players who attended an event with character A but wants to win something for their character B. It would also allow for some extended life on items that just 'aren't right' for a character down the road. I'm not really interested in completely leveling the playing field for Basic vs. Premium as I feel there should be additional value in premium (this example being one of those benefits).
- Any sort of attunement should probably go hand in hand with an increased volume/quantity of super cool items being released. A lot of items in use today are not in hands of the original owner and I think Gemstone would be a sadder place if most of those items were now player/account dead vs in the hands of new players. I would also want to see some sort of long term way to mitigate the locker death of attuned items implemented - e.g. every 12 months of premium membership allows 1 item to be unattuned or transitioned. And as an added note, I do not want to see this offered as a SimuCoin solution - Item Unattunement potions only 5,000 simucoins!
-- Robert
- I am completely against player attuned items as a common theme unless you are planning to dramatically increase the quantity/inflow of 'super cool' items going forward to compensate for this restriction. I also feel that a general shift towards player attuned items would serve to lessen the benefit of being a premium account holder.
- Account attunement is a more appealing option (as a premium player). It would serve to reduce the number of folks entering raffles to turn a profit without penalizing premium players who attended an event with character A but wants to win something for their character B. It would also allow for some extended life on items that just 'aren't right' for a character down the road. I'm not really interested in completely leveling the playing field for Basic vs. Premium as I feel there should be additional value in premium (this example being one of those benefits).
- Any sort of attunement should probably go hand in hand with an increased volume/quantity of super cool items being released. A lot of items in use today are not in hands of the original owner and I think Gemstone would be a sadder place if most of those items were now player/account dead vs in the hands of new players. I would also want to see some sort of long term way to mitigate the locker death of attuned items implemented - e.g. every 12 months of premium membership allows 1 item to be unattuned or transitioned. And as an added note, I do not want to see this offered as a SimuCoin solution - Item Unattunement potions only 5,000 simucoins!
-- Robert
I agree 100% with Krakii, and I'll attempt to offer up some slightly different perspective on their post.
First, I agree that attunement does create the right atmosphere and the right incentive. Right now there's just far too much focus on winning items simply to score millions of silver for it.
Second, I definitely agree with account-attuning rather than character attuning. Primarily in the instance of paid events, where I like to bring characters suited for the theme of the event, NOT the ones necessarily interested in the items being offered. I would hate to have to bring my food-obsessed and fun-loving halfling to Ebon Gate instead of my brooding and dark sorceress simply because there was going to be a tart kiln raffled off. As Krakii stated, this does present some difficulty in the handing off, which could be answered by the in-game mail being implemented or even just having the prize handed off by the GM/merchant to whichever character was actually going to use it at a later point in time.
As for the ability to hand said attuned item off at a later point in time, I'm in agreement that it would be nice to have as an option, but again I say take the temptation to make millions of silvers off it away. Make it an optional donation after aforementioned time period has passed to either a merchant or through some kind of hopper or bin or whatever in return for something they can at least use (since we're assuming they no longer have interest in the item). Give them a mega RPA for it, give them a sadie scroll, or heck, give them SimuCoins. This would obviously require you all to figure out some kind of tier system for values, but you see what I'm getting at. This way the item goes back to staff, who can repurpose them through other raffles, as event prizes, etc. but it doesn't encourage folks to enter the raffles for the sole purpose of aging the item like a bottle of wine to make even MORE money off it 3 years down the road.
Of course, I'm not saying ALL raffle items should be attuned. Items which are specifically oriented around a certain class, or deity, or race, or especially the epic items such as the bow glove, property deeds, and especially customizeable items like kroderine weapons/armor should be. Though it was in my example tart kilns and goat pins don't need to be attuned and shouldn't be; as previously pointed out those make for really fun gifts not to mention great prizes for House raffles and the like.
~Kodachii
First, I agree that attunement does create the right atmosphere and the right incentive. Right now there's just far too much focus on winning items simply to score millions of silver for it.
Second, I definitely agree with account-attuning rather than character attuning. Primarily in the instance of paid events, where I like to bring characters suited for the theme of the event, NOT the ones necessarily interested in the items being offered. I would hate to have to bring my food-obsessed and fun-loving halfling to Ebon Gate instead of my brooding and dark sorceress simply because there was going to be a tart kiln raffled off. As Krakii stated, this does present some difficulty in the handing off, which could be answered by the in-game mail being implemented or even just having the prize handed off by the GM/merchant to whichever character was actually going to use it at a later point in time.
As for the ability to hand said attuned item off at a later point in time, I'm in agreement that it would be nice to have as an option, but again I say take the temptation to make millions of silvers off it away. Make it an optional donation after aforementioned time period has passed to either a merchant or through some kind of hopper or bin or whatever in return for something they can at least use (since we're assuming they no longer have interest in the item). Give them a mega RPA for it, give them a sadie scroll, or heck, give them SimuCoins. This would obviously require you all to figure out some kind of tier system for values, but you see what I'm getting at. This way the item goes back to staff, who can repurpose them through other raffles, as event prizes, etc. but it doesn't encourage folks to enter the raffles for the sole purpose of aging the item like a bottle of wine to make even MORE money off it 3 years down the road.
Of course, I'm not saying ALL raffle items should be attuned. Items which are specifically oriented around a certain class, or deity, or race, or especially the epic items such as the bow glove, property deeds, and especially customizeable items like kroderine weapons/armor should be. Though it was in my example tart kilns and goat pins don't need to be attuned and shouldn't be; as previously pointed out those make for really fun gifts not to mention great prizes for House raffles and the like.
~Kodachii
A bow glove could be used by anyone, and being an epic item, those are the sorts of things I most hate to see go into locker limbo. It diminishes us all when the most epic of items cease to see the light of day. Account attunement while definitely better than character attunement still doesn't solve the problem. Players retire all the time, some eventually come back, and retire again over and over, but others retire and never come back and all their amazing stuff is just gone. Plus, there are those who sell accounts, by going with account attunement you've just increased the value of selling characters/accounts by a good bit. Want that super awesome 600 million silver glove bow? Just buy my character and transfer him to your account! Now you can transfer the bow to a character on your account. Problem solved. But also problem created!
I do get your concern, and I too hate competing in raffles against folks who have no interest in using the item, but attunement is one of those instances of performing brain surgery with a lead pipe... the cure might just be a lot worse than the disease.
I struggle with this..
Personally, I'm all for account attuning of items.
I can appreciate though that not everyone plays for the same reasons I do. To some, winning Gemstone means reaching cap; to others it means having the best gear in the game; and some of us realize Gemstone isn't about winning or losing.
It comes down to balance. Having said that, if I were queen (which we can all have a good laugh about and ignore since I'm not) I would weight more heavily towards the account attuning for major pay events to discourage the practice of activating an account just to increase the chances of getting the uber item so it can be sold for a quick profit.
Events like EG - Not so much if the items being released are planned to be be made released each year by the same means.
Personally, I'm all for account attuning of items.
I can appreciate though that not everyone plays for the same reasons I do. To some, winning Gemstone means reaching cap; to others it means having the best gear in the game; and some of us realize Gemstone isn't about winning or losing.
It comes down to balance. Having said that, if I were queen (which we can all have a good laugh about and ignore since I'm not) I would weight more heavily towards the account attuning for major pay events to discourage the practice of activating an account just to increase the chances of getting the uber item so it can be sold for a quick profit.
Events like EG - Not so much if the items being released are planned to be be made released each year by the same means.
I'm a big fan of attuning unique/'Legendary' items. I don't necessarily see the need for attuning a 6x HCW weapon win. At least in Plat, the Corasine weapon that was auctioned at RtCF is well placed and a success story for attunement.
Attuned items should have distribution rules, meaning only auction and/or filtered spins by skill/profession qualifications or otherwise you'll still get the folks who start a character just for an item.
I think one of the most powerful things about Gemstone is that there are some items we can refer to by the owner's name, and attuned items supports this. That said, the concerns about loosing great items to player attrition is a valid point. I support the recovery of legendary items from lockers (like we do with properties), but I know that is not a very popular view, and a topic for another thread.
Vorks
Attuned items should have distribution rules, meaning only auction and/or filtered spins by skill/profession qualifications or otherwise you'll still get the folks who start a character just for an item.
I think one of the most powerful things about Gemstone is that there are some items we can refer to by the owner's name, and attuned items supports this. That said, the concerns about loosing great items to player attrition is a valid point. I support the recovery of legendary items from lockers (like we do with properties), but I know that is not a very popular view, and a topic for another thread.
Vorks
I'm assuming we're attuning items to characters to make sure that the items go to people who have coveted them for a long time. If everyone can roll up a character for a item, we're not actually filtering the possible pool at all, so if we're going to do that we probably shouldn't be attuning items at all.
Overall I like the idea of attuning "legendary" items as some others have said. As an archer I would love to see something like a black ora glove longbow (but better) that was never coming off. Greater Coraesine are a great example of attuning done right. Rapture cloaks are another. Put simply if you can release a better, more epic, more character defining final product by making it attune I'm all for it. By better I don't always mean mechanically either. I personally think the arkati cloaks that were released could have stood to be attuned.
That said I prefer account attunement over character attunement for the most part. It allows you to take whomever you want to RP with at a festival without worrying about missing an item that would be perfect for another character on the account. It also allows you to potentially still make use of an item if the character it goes to moves in another direction. A good example were the account attuned permablessing services offered at EG a couple years ago. Not only did it allow the player to decide what they wanted to attune but they could be passed to other characters on the account. I would definitely like to see more major services that come with an attuning component. Obviously this isn't the best solution for some things, such as black ora.
Finally there always needs to be a good mix. While I welcome more "epic" attuning items I would hate to see them at the cost of reducing the player economy. Most items simply do not merit attunement and even some that do should be left off the list simply because not every "epic" item should be attuned. We could stand to see more services like the aforementioned permablessing/attunement and more items like greater coraesine, black ora and rapture cloaks but probably not a ton more. Mix in those attuning services that wouldn't get approved without an attunement. Use attunement sparingly with very epic items to make them feel extra special or part of a character. Just don't start using attunement simply to "make sure the right person gets this item" because the economy will ultimately do that for you.
P.S. A new release of Naos' "steel" weapons with attunement would be super.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
That said I prefer account attunement over character attunement for the most part. It allows you to take whomever you want to RP with at a festival without worrying about missing an item that would be perfect for another character on the account. It also allows you to potentially still make use of an item if the character it goes to moves in another direction. A good example were the account attuned permablessing services offered at EG a couple years ago. Not only did it allow the player to decide what they wanted to attune but they could be passed to other characters on the account. I would definitely like to see more major services that come with an attuning component. Obviously this isn't the best solution for some things, such as black ora.
Finally there always needs to be a good mix. While I welcome more "epic" attuning items I would hate to see them at the cost of reducing the player economy. Most items simply do not merit attunement and even some that do should be left off the list simply because not every "epic" item should be attuned. We could stand to see more services like the aforementioned permablessing/attunement and more items like greater coraesine, black ora and rapture cloaks but probably not a ton more. Mix in those attuning services that wouldn't get approved without an attunement. Use attunement sparingly with very epic items to make them feel extra special or part of a character. Just don't start using attunement simply to "make sure the right person gets this item" because the economy will ultimately do that for you.
P.S. A new release of Naos' "steel" weapons with attunement would be super.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
Personally, I would love to see an across the board increase in attuning items. Not Just the ones that attune when you win them, either. More like rapture cloaks and black ora jewelry, stuff that attunes the first time you use it. I'm in favor of the in game economy for buying and selling things, but those sorts of items seem more likely to end up in the hands of folks who want them for their character's life. Since they cannot be sold again, the value is going to be lower in general (unless they are still insanely rare).
They would also be the perfect sort of items to use more random means to release (critter drops, games), because they will soon find a home with people who want them and without having to pay a premium such as on items that could be resold in the future. My opinion, anyway.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
They would also be the perfect sort of items to use more random means to release (critter drops, games), because they will soon find a home with people who want them and without having to pay a premium such as on items that could be resold in the future. My opinion, anyway.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
Im a fan of attuning items, especially if it means the mechanical benefits reflect limited use. It doesn't address good items being lost over time but it does limit pocket characters buying tickets and people entering with the sole purpose to resell items which I perceive as much more frustrating as a player. Also, I wouldn't like strict class restrictions but training/skill/race restrictions as a possible alternative would be ok. Raffle a twohanded sword of doom restricted to those with 1x or more in THW. Have multiple raffle instances but limit one or more based on skill similar to the forging slabs in Talador.
I Like the attuned raffles and other items, with raffles the odds are often much better then 100 to 1, and if the ticket cost is 50k, Id rather not be paying that for ticket to an item someone else cant use, and is just going to try and sell to me for 5 million coin. As far as other items go, somethings I think should always stay attuned transporters from quests for example, but others, say the katans from that quest, well sell it if you change weapon types its useless, but....
Keep the attuning as is, and offer a potion in the simu coin shop to remove it, then if the proper owner wishes to sell it for a fortune, they can at a small cost to them.
Simu makes a few dollars off it, and maybe they can put it toward an advertising budget to increase player population :)
I hate attuned items. I still have a pair of boots that no longer fit the character that are attuned. I can't even give them away. >
Thats an example, sell a potion in the simu store for 1$ worth of coin or so that will remove the attunement to minor items like this, but keep the major ones attuned no matter what, no potions for them.
And or add it as a service for Premie or Plat points.
I like the temporary attunement idea. Way to often (I'd guess at least 75% of the time) I'm just entering a raffle or showing up for a spin just to win the item so I can sell it two days later for coins I can use to buy something I actually want.
I think though if we are going the attunement way there has to be more flexibility in the items, so if your offering off a weapon that's going to be attuned in anyway, the base of that weapon needs to be customized at the time of the service, otherwise you will end up with way to many folks crying about all the raffles they can't enter for something they can't use.
I think though if we are going the attunement way there has to be more flexibility in the items, so if your offering off a weapon that's going to be attuned in anyway, the base of that weapon needs to be customized at the time of the service, otherwise you will end up with way to many folks crying about all the raffles they can't enter for something they can't use.
The only problem I have with attuned items is the number of times it ends up with people who aren't paying attention or just don't know, so the service ends up 'wasted'.
~ The girl behind Debia
Contribute to the economy of Debia! You too can make a difference!
http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/5314
~ The girl behind Debia
Contribute to the economy of Debia! You too can make a difference!
http://pshops.lichproject.org/shops/5314
Better late than never?
I'm anti-attunement, but pro-attuning weapons.
What?
I'm a fan of the implementation of coresine(sp?) type weapons which take a long time to attune to a player. That can be time via XP gain, time via cooldown based verb usage, or just time by calendar days before reaching maximum potential.
People may hate it... but it meets the spirit of both attuning equipment as well as unattuned, sellable equipment. The hardest part is finding a balance between attuning too fast, too slow, or just in a matter that's scriptable, or just time consumingly wasteful.
~Whirlin
I'm anti-attunement, but pro-attuning weapons.
What?
I'm a fan of the implementation of coresine(sp?) type weapons which take a long time to attune to a player. That can be time via XP gain, time via cooldown based verb usage, or just time by calendar days before reaching maximum potential.
People may hate it... but it meets the spirit of both attuning equipment as well as unattuned, sellable equipment. The hardest part is finding a balance between attuning too fast, too slow, or just in a matter that's scriptable, or just time consumingly wasteful.
~Whirlin
They would never be done as any kind of mass-release, but the "stepped" process of attuning has an excellent example here:
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Steel_short_sword_(saved_post)
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Steel_short_sword_(saved_post)
