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The WPS wagon will be out at BMC.
Wyrom, PM
There is renewed passionate discussion in other threads about the importance of the secondary market, the value of real life time, grinding with multiple accounts at events, and the reliance on whales to keep the game profitable.
Previously, Wyrom shared that it is futile to try to meaningfully drain silvers from the economy given the way some people farm them.
I would like to propose that it's time for the company to finally offer bulk silvers for $$ directly in the Store as another revenue source, even if the offer is limited to a single day a year (ie. CyberMonday).
Please consider doing this in anticipation of Briarmoon Cove. A special sale for the event at $4.50/M silvers would beat current market gauging and provide a quick surge of revenue for the company. I prefer spending money to support the company directly.
Tarakan
Previously, Wyrom shared that it is futile to try to meaningfully drain silvers from the economy given the way some people farm them.
I would like to propose that it's time for the company to finally offer bulk silvers for $$ directly in the Store as another revenue source, even if the offer is limited to a single day a year (ie. CyberMonday).
Please consider doing this in anticipation of Briarmoon Cove. A special sale for the event at $4.50/M silvers would beat current market gauging and provide a quick surge of revenue for the company. I prefer spending money to support the company directly.
Tarakan
<I would like to propose that it's time for the company to finally offer bulk silvers for $$ directly in the Store as another revenue source, even if the offer is limited to a single day a year (ie. CyberMonday).>
Oh heck no. There are plenty of play to win games out there, go play one of those and stop trying to turn this into more of one then it's already become.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Oh heck no. There are plenty of play to win games out there, go play one of those and stop trying to turn this into more of one then it's already become.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
On the other hand, the secondary items/silvers for cash market brings a lot of toxicity into the game as well. It’s really really bad in this game. I’d also prefer to pay Simu directly than toxic scalpers and/or scripters.
That being said, the real $$$ cost for high end items at events is also way out of control in this game too. I know it’s a niche game and all with a dedicated player base, but still.
That being said, the real $$$ cost for high end items at events is also way out of control in this game too. I know it’s a niche game and all with a dedicated player base, but still.
hello,
My 2 cents:
- there are 2 main things in this game: roleplaying, and levelling.
Roleplaying: the fancy multi-scripted item, whatever it is is NOT needed for roleplaying that's only to make the show.
Levelling: you don't need that heavy crit padded armor, T5, blah blah blah ... neither that blah blah blah weapon... you just need to carefully choose your hunting ground .. you can't be good against any critter.. you have to make choices. Buy a x5 somewhat crit padded armor/robe for 3 millions and you're done. Same for your weapon/shield (of course I'm not using any .. so I'm not the best expert.)
Have friends, help them without asking/trading anything in return, and you'll get far more than expected.
right now, my 5x SWCP robes have been pushed to +33 by a friend of mine, my 4x handwraps have been ensorcelled up to T2 by another friend of mine. And I have provided a free third circle tattoo to every friend of mine. And that's just for the fun of enhancing each other, because we DON'T need that ..
In the old world, I raised a brawling cleric to 93 (and a brawling sorcerer to 60's), when training was a serious issue .. believe me, you DON'T need anything else than a basic x4 armor/weapon/blah blah ..
if you think that the secondary items/silvers for cash market brings a lot of toxicity into the game, then don't buy things. I don't, and I'm fine, about to hit 80. Of course I'm a monk, and I can't speak for the other weak professions ;-)
You look at this from an understandable perspective, but are missing some of the angles. The thing is, those people you could buy silvers from also supply a steady income to the game because they often play multiple accounts to farm silvers. You're essentially asking simu to run those people off because you might buy silvers directly on occasion. I imagine you don't value those players in the game, personally, but their numbers actually matter more than you might realize. Sometimes a perception of health IS actually healthy. If I play MUDS, but not GS, and I roll in for the first time and see Plat-esque numbers in prime, I could be that person looking for exactly that, but I'm not, and neither are most players, or Plat would never work (as I believe these players probably like their small community and as minorities in said belief it stays that way), because it's not like 10-20 more bucks is a deal breaker for people like me with multiple premium accounts anyway. I like seeing the player base swell. They don't need to all be hard core role players. Frankly, I see the same people hogging those roles anyway. Also, wealth in game has no context without poverty as well, lol. We're not all the same, we don't approach the game the same, but I dare say the vast majority who do play aren't "coiners" - people who prefer DIRECT PTW games. I would probably frown upon an influx of "unearned" silvers allowing someone to outbid me. Let me be clear on what I mean by, "unearned", too. Those would be silvers created out of thin air, not hunted up IG. Even silvers sold on a secondary market have to be made by SOME character IG, which means there's limitations and some degree of me working hard within the context of the game to compete.
I feel like the staff has been walking an interesting tightrope where a lean too far one way or the other could be catastrophic. They've done well, so it seems. I don't know what the future holds, but I'm just hoarding silvers like I hoard essence because I want to use it for me at this time.
As for the secondary market and what people refer to as price gouging, it's really just supply and demand and the fact that so many people like myself are holding/saving for what WE want (or think we might be able to buy/bid on/etc). Just like a real economy, it allows for those still willing to sell to command a higher price. Honestly, if people want to pay for silvers to support the game as opposed to a secondary market, it seems to me like they might at least offer to pay the going rate, not ask simu for a discount. No personal knock here, like I said, I do understand to an extent.
Imagine how you might feel, however, if you had the time to put into this game, did so, and worked hard piling up silvers only to have someone come in and buy a bunch from simu at the last minute. Your problem has -An- existing solution. Perhaps not ideal (as I said due to economic "law" norms). Trading it away and creating a new problem for others is no real solution at all though.
Problems with the silver economy include:
* Farmers, some MA and others not even, running around relentlessly farming silvers and making places unhuntable by some combination of driving up the spawn rates, stealing kills, stealing loot, or all of the above
* Silver inflation being driven to a point that raffle prices have spiraled out of control and casual players are beginning to feel shut out
* Massive disparity between professions with strong silver generating abilities fueled by ordinary hunting playstyles, professions with silver generating abilities that are strong if and only if they spend hours going out of their way to alter their playstyle, and professions with weak or no silver generating abilities
Solutions to said problems will, hopefully, never include:
* Selling silvers directly for Simucoins
* Getting rid of silver events, WPS wagons, GM raffles, GM auctions, Kraken Falls ships and ship upgrades, and any other major service involving silvers
* Keeping all the above services, but phasing out silvers and introducing a new pay-only currency to be used for them
Any of them would work, but they're cures worse than the sickness.
Funny thing is I typed the bullet points above (with different introductory lines) in the context of another thread, but spotted this one in the meantime and it ended up working out probably even better here.
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
* Farmers, some MA and others not even, running around relentlessly farming silvers and making places unhuntable by some combination of driving up the spawn rates, stealing kills, stealing loot, or all of the above
* Silver inflation being driven to a point that raffle prices have spiraled out of control and casual players are beginning to feel shut out
* Massive disparity between professions with strong silver generating abilities fueled by ordinary hunting playstyles, professions with silver generating abilities that are strong if and only if they spend hours going out of their way to alter their playstyle, and professions with weak or no silver generating abilities
Solutions to said problems will, hopefully, never include:
* Selling silvers directly for Simucoins
* Getting rid of silver events, WPS wagons, GM raffles, GM auctions, Kraken Falls ships and ship upgrades, and any other major service involving silvers
* Keeping all the above services, but phasing out silvers and introducing a new pay-only currency to be used for them
Any of them would work, but they're cures worse than the sickness.
Funny thing is I typed the bullet points above (with different introductory lines) in the context of another thread, but spotted this one in the meantime and it ended up working out probably even better here.
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
> Problems with the silver economy include:
> * Farmers, some MA and others not even, running around relentlessly farming silvers and making places unhuntable by some combination of driving up the spawn rates, stealing kills, stealing loot, or all of the above
There's a big difference between AFK/Abusive scripting practices vs. Within Policy scripting. A paying consumer scripting within the confines of policy shouldn't be punished because they know how to script. I really doubt there is much AFK/Abusive farming going on. GMs do a pretty good job finding those people.
> * Silver inflation being driven to a point that raffle prices have spiraled out of control and casual players are beginning to feel shut out
This is simply not true. Raffle/merchant pricing has increased less than the inflation of silvers. What this means is it is easier for players to acquire silvers than ever before.
> * Massive disparity between professions with strong silver generating abilities fueled by ordinary hunting playstyles, professions with silver generating abilities that are strong if and only if they spend hours going out of their way to alter their playstyle, and professions with weak or no silver generating abilities
This isn't a silvers/economy issue. This is a lack of dev and profession balancing issue.
> Solutions to said problems will, hopefully, never include:
> * Selling silvers directly for Simucoins
> * Getting rid of silver events, WPS wagons, GM raffles, GM auctions, Kraken Falls ships and ship upgrades, and any other major service involving silvers
> * Keeping all the above services, but phasing out silvers and introducing a new pay-only currency to be used for them
> Any of them would work, but they're cures worse than the sickness.
No, none of these would work. There is no sickness either. Good standing, policy adhering, savvy silver generating players shouldn't be punished here. I think people are characterizing a "problem" that doesn't exist and in fact largely keeps this game going.
The problem with silvers is their incapacity to buy everything related the game directly.
The fact there isn't that much systems allowing to "waste" your silvers make the temptation to sell em outside of the game VERY high.
The minute you can, THROWING IDEAS
1) Rent an exact same level NPC that will hunt with you like an animate or something for 1 hour, for, I don't know 500k per hour.
2) Use a spell caster ingame that will spell you up to every spell of a profession for DOUBLE length (8h20) for, I don't know, 100k
3) Buying food that will temp raise your stats, dunno, 5k per meal (physical stats), cooldown of 1 hour. 5k per drink (mental stats), cooldown of 2 hours. Alcohol that mimic berserk, cooldown of 2 hours, 10k
4) Hire a NPC that will forage herbs until X amount is found, 10k per hour, 5% find per minute. You can scale that in quality for higher price
5) Hire a npc that will get a list of stuff you need for alchemy for 25k per hour, 5% per minute, bla bla bla
You see the pattern. Silvers are useless in game, besides VERY specific moments. You find silvers EVERYTIMES you hunt. Take the problem backward and you got the solution: don't limit silvers, increase silver sinks
>There's a big difference between AFK/Abusive scripting practices vs. Within Policy scripting.
Stealing kills and loot is technically within policy, at least to my understanding, unless it happens to also be AFK scripting. So that's in the same boat as recklessly tossing around AoE spells not being not grounds for PvP retaliation, nor is the person even obligated to repay deeds or chrisms. Basically reliant on self-policing in the community.
I do agree it's a minority (and so is the AoE situation), though.
>Raffle/merchant pricing has increased less than the inflation of silvers. What this means is it is easier for players to acquire silvers than ever before.
I agree, but you're talking about the overall economy and I was talking specifically about the casual player.
You're also talking about the objective situation and I'm talking about the subjective one. When GHOUL cards were going to be 50k this year, the subjective perception was that 50k was too much. Players can just blow off perceptions (unless they're the ones have them), but staff actually has to respond to or at least consider the conversation, and possibly make changes where warranted. In this case, it meant going down to 10k.
>This isn't a silvers/economy issue. This is a lack of dev and profession balancing issue.
Eh... I get where you're coming from, because it would be better if every profession had a service. I just think dev and the silver economy are too intertwined to cleanly separate them. Effects on the silver economy were one reason that dev gave for toning down the Sanctum swarms.
Either way, just to be clear, my point isn't to make changes--it's actually the opposite. My point is nothing's perfect and it never will be, and being able to rattle off a few flaws (even legitimate ones) isn't cause for a dramatic change.
Stealing kills and loot is technically within policy, at least to my understanding, unless it happens to also be AFK scripting. So that's in the same boat as recklessly tossing around AoE spells not being not grounds for PvP retaliation, nor is the person even obligated to repay deeds or chrisms. Basically reliant on self-policing in the community.
I do agree it's a minority (and so is the AoE situation), though.
>Raffle/merchant pricing has increased less than the inflation of silvers. What this means is it is easier for players to acquire silvers than ever before.
I agree, but you're talking about the overall economy and I was talking specifically about the casual player.
You're also talking about the objective situation and I'm talking about the subjective one. When GHOUL cards were going to be 50k this year, the subjective perception was that 50k was too much. Players can just blow off perceptions (unless they're the ones have them), but staff actually has to respond to or at least consider the conversation, and possibly make changes where warranted. In this case, it meant going down to 10k.
>This isn't a silvers/economy issue. This is a lack of dev and profession balancing issue.
Eh... I get where you're coming from, because it would be better if every profession had a service. I just think dev and the silver economy are too intertwined to cleanly separate them. Effects on the silver economy were one reason that dev gave for toning down the Sanctum swarms.
Either way, just to be clear, my point isn't to make changes--it's actually the opposite. My point is nothing's perfect and it never will be, and being able to rattle off a few flaws (even legitimate ones) isn't cause for a dramatic change.
