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ReplyTravel skills should remain travel skills. Escaping should be merged with tactics. Tactics should be the skill that covers what Escaping does now. It is part practice and it is part knowledge. You need both to escape. Its non damaging combat maneuvers. Escaping nets, fleeing from the area. Being prepared with the knowledge and the experience required to perform maneuvers that will help you survive in and out of combat.
I would like to see escaping ranks get merged into the skill(s) that will be replacing it. This is the format you are following for every other skill conversion where more than one are combining.
My 4th requirement is right now up to my 150+ circle, and I am only circle 110. This means unless they do the conversion of athletics into escaping I will be set back about 40 circles when my 4th becomes inline with 110 requirements. Escaping poofs and athletics get boosted to At circle for me. This is going to force me to back train for quite awhile because nearly all my required skills will carry me to 150+ as it is. Astrology is the only skill I need for a long time right now. After this I will have to work a survival back up to keep the same level of progress in the guild requirements I have currently.
Lets try and keep this as constructive as possible. I know its hard but we can't have any fun if our thread is deleted.
In reality as in dreams, nothing is quite as it seems.
>>This is the format you are following for every other skill conversion where more than one are combining.
Just an FYI -- but this is not a true statement for vocals. So, escaping isn't unique in this respect.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Just an FYI -- but this is not a true statement for vocals. So, escaping isn't unique in this respect.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
>>Just an FYI -- but this is not a true statement for vocals. So, escaping isn't unique in this respect.
Its 99% true then. And vocals is quite unique. It is the easiest skill to train in the game, affects only 1 guild and and doesn't require any risk to train.
Escaping effects every guild since it counts towards survival requirements, requires risk to train and isn't nearly as easy to get ranks into. Yes after you reach armadillos we have all established it trains great. But up to that point it is actually one of the harder skills to train and armadillo hunters account for a small fraction of the player base.
In reality as in dreams, nothing is quite as it seems.
>>Just an FYI -- but this is not a true statement for vocals. So, escaping isn't unique in this respect.
Didn't the stealth merge do something like this too, where stealth being based on stalking is capped at whatever 120% of your hiding? I admittedly can't remember if they scrapped that.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Didn't the stealth merge do something like this too, where stealth being based on stalking is capped at whatever 120% of your hiding? I admittedly can't remember if they scrapped that.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>Can I please get some confirmation regarding my circle requirements? When Escaping does poof and I get athletics grand fathered to my 110 circle requirement. Will I then have to back train to get that one survival I trained for my guild requirements back in line with the rest of them?
Yes. Just like anyone whose might have two weapons that are going to be merged, or people with their first and second survivals being swimming and climbing, or people who have vocals as their primary lore, etc.
I had vocals as my primary lore for quite chunk of circles past my circle when I was grandfathered/converted. You get over it.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Yes. Just like anyone whose might have two weapons that are going to be merged, or people with their first and second survivals being swimming and climbing, or people who have vocals as their primary lore, etc.
I had vocals as my primary lore for quite chunk of circles past my circle when I was grandfathered/converted. You get over it.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>The FLEE command is going to be much more important as well when the ability quickly type retreat over and over is done away with.
I agree. I also agree with GMs who feel that training it almost exclusively by running away every 90 seconds (or whatever the timer is) or hunting in the limited areas with web mechanics is not the right want to handle that mechanic.
Escaping was a nice skill as a concept that was terrible to train in practice.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I agree. I also agree with GMs who feel that training it almost exclusively by running away every 90 seconds (or whatever the timer is) or hunting in the limited areas with web mechanics is not the right want to handle that mechanic.
Escaping was a nice skill as a concept that was terrible to train in practice.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
<<Escaping was a nice skill as a concept that was terrible to train in practice.>>
Until you got to this point.
Escaping: 596 81.31% considering (6/34) Which is exactly the problem.
Look I fought this fight when it was first announced Escaping wouldn't count towards your Athletic Skill after the merge. Mainly because I neglected my swimming climbing for a while because I found them boring to train/incorporate into my scripts.
It was answered then, as its being answered now, basically the ease to train escaping in Dillos was determined to be a detriment to simply sliding Escaping into the Athletic skill.
However, the GMs have recently said that Webs and other like contests WILL train Athletics after 3.0.
I'm sorry your so worked up about this, but sometimes you have to let things go.
- Buuwl
>>Until you got to this point.
Agreed, with the addendum of things like kartais and warklin when you don't have the defenses that let you outright dodge/block the webs.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Agreed, with the addendum of things like kartais and warklin when you don't have the defenses that let you outright dodge/block the webs.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>However, the GMs have recently said that Webs and other like contests WILL train Athletics after 3.0.<<
>>So again it makes no sense. I trained escaping in combat. In 3.0 you train athletics in combat. They will do the same thing. So how is it any different? <<<
- yeah like I said, I posted the exact same thought when it was announced, and basically was told, weeeeeelll that is what is happening. So that is your answer; you can like it or not, but its your answer. You can go back and look at the GM posts and find the exact wording if your really into this.
<<Truthfully if Athletics skill should be only swimming and climbing, And even that is dumb. Tactics SHOULD be the new escaping. Then nobody will have to worry about losing effectiveness at a skill.>>
No no no, tactics is lore. Don't like this idea at all. Would far rather escaping get dumped into the survival pool. I don't like skills moving across skill sets (in this case survival to lore) at all.
- Buuwl
>>So again it makes no sense. I trained escaping in combat. In 3.0 you train athletics in combat. They will do the same thing. So how is it any different? <<<
- yeah like I said, I posted the exact same thought when it was announced, and basically was told, weeeeeelll that is what is happening. So that is your answer; you can like it or not, but its your answer. You can go back and look at the GM posts and find the exact wording if your really into this.
<<Truthfully if Athletics skill should be only swimming and climbing, And even that is dumb. Tactics SHOULD be the new escaping. Then nobody will have to worry about losing effectiveness at a skill.>>
No no no, tactics is lore. Don't like this idea at all. Would far rather escaping get dumped into the survival pool. I don't like skills moving across skill sets (in this case survival to lore) at all.
- Buuwl
>I would like to see escaping ranks get merged into the skill(s) that will be replacing it. This is the format you are following for every other skill conversion where more than one are combining.
Actually I think this is probably false.
Vocals is dissolved into general pool, but I'm pretty sure your vocal "skill" will be determined by Performance.
>My 4th requirement is right now up to my 150+ circle, and I am only circle 110. This means unless they do the conversion of athletics into escaping I will be set back about 40 circles when my 4th becomes inline with 110 requirements. Escaping poofs and athletics get boosted to At circle for me. This is going to force me to back train for quite awhile because nearly all my required skills will carry me to 150+
Then why are you not 150th circle? Why have you not circle-chased? You've only had about nearly 2 entire years of full knowledge of this. http://elanthipedia.org/wiki/Post:Updated_Skill_List_-_12/11/2010_-_15:45:26
>requires risk to train and isn't nearly as easy to get ranks into.
Not really. As I said in a post now deleted in another folder of this exact topic (because apparently every post after the mod threatened to close was apparently the cutoff for what styed and what got cut, and you didn't want to leave this topic alone), ANY person can FLEE at level with no risk. The only thing Escaping skill does is determine fatigue lost (which is capped), and how well you learn Escaping skill. A person with 0 Escaping can survive at level with anything that's actually at level with them. I don't believe I have ever been appreciably killed or injured because I FLEE (and I do it after every kill and after every couple of minutes).
>Stealth combine
Will be highest of Hiding OR Stalking up to 130% of Hiding.
>And the kicker? After the swap you are going to let everyone else train this Athletics as a survival in combat. Just as I have been doing all along. Yet somehow my time spent training is not recognized? Its literally the same skill but you aren't the ranks in the conversion?
I also train Escaping on all my characters by FLEE. At best guess, they tend to be around 70-80% of my defense ranks, and despite that, I have no character with it any higher ranked than 8th survival, because ahead of it lies Foraging, Perception, Evasion, Hiding, Stalking, Climbing, and Swimming, and First Aid. Position of those 7 varies by Guild, but that's pretty constant. Escaping is 9th on my Thief.
>No no no, tactics is lore. Don't like this idea at all. Would far rather escaping get dumped into the survival pool. I don't like skills moving across skill sets (in this case survival to lore) at all.
Animal LORE to SURVIVAL (That'll be actual bit transfer). MO to Defending (Essentially moving skillset).
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Actually I think this is probably false.
Vocals is dissolved into general pool, but I'm pretty sure your vocal "skill" will be determined by Performance.
>My 4th requirement is right now up to my 150+ circle, and I am only circle 110. This means unless they do the conversion of athletics into escaping I will be set back about 40 circles when my 4th becomes inline with 110 requirements. Escaping poofs and athletics get boosted to At circle for me. This is going to force me to back train for quite awhile because nearly all my required skills will carry me to 150+
Then why are you not 150th circle? Why have you not circle-chased? You've only had about nearly 2 entire years of full knowledge of this. http://elanthipedia.org/wiki/Post:Updated_Skill_List_-_12/11/2010_-_15:45:26
>requires risk to train and isn't nearly as easy to get ranks into.
Not really. As I said in a post now deleted in another folder of this exact topic (because apparently every post after the mod threatened to close was apparently the cutoff for what styed and what got cut, and you didn't want to leave this topic alone), ANY person can FLEE at level with no risk. The only thing Escaping skill does is determine fatigue lost (which is capped), and how well you learn Escaping skill. A person with 0 Escaping can survive at level with anything that's actually at level with them. I don't believe I have ever been appreciably killed or injured because I FLEE (and I do it after every kill and after every couple of minutes).
>Stealth combine
Will be highest of Hiding OR Stalking up to 130% of Hiding.
>And the kicker? After the swap you are going to let everyone else train this Athletics as a survival in combat. Just as I have been doing all along. Yet somehow my time spent training is not recognized? Its literally the same skill but you aren't the ranks in the conversion?
I also train Escaping on all my characters by FLEE. At best guess, they tend to be around 70-80% of my defense ranks, and despite that, I have no character with it any higher ranked than 8th survival, because ahead of it lies Foraging, Perception, Evasion, Hiding, Stalking, Climbing, and Swimming, and First Aid. Position of those 7 varies by Guild, but that's pretty constant. Escaping is 9th on my Thief.
>No no no, tactics is lore. Don't like this idea at all. Would far rather escaping get dumped into the survival pool. I don't like skills moving across skill sets (in this case survival to lore) at all.
Animal LORE to SURVIVAL (That'll be actual bit transfer). MO to Defending (Essentially moving skillset).
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Please refrain from conflicting here too, especially the personal attacks. Just because we changed to the complaints folder, doesn't mean we can fight among one another here as well.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
>>Only for bards, and then only up to 130% of your highest non-vocal instrument.
I think it's like this for everyone. I think they removed all the guild-specific conditionals for stuff like this.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I think it's like this for everyone. I think they removed all the guild-specific conditionals for stuff like this.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I want to stress that I don't expect that any GM is going to have an epiphany on escaping and change the conversion formulas because there is one person who might have trained escaping effectively outside of just being in dillos and having it go from 0-infinity by the nature of a high level mob that shoots webs.
In the end, the skill was broken. Not just in how limited it was in scope but now wonky it trained.
You should let this one go. It's not going to change. Escaping is going away. It is gone. It has ceased to be. It is a dead skill. I strongly doubt that the GMs are going to retroactively change skill mergers with the knowledge that the mergers already took place in one game instance. If this conversation took place a few few months ago, maybe. But even then I'd consider it a stretch.
>>But you are just making horrible points to justify your rage towards me. You are so upset you are seeing things how you want, and forgetting basic truths such as any skill trained in combat is not a no risk skill to train.
>>What exactly are you saying here? Cool story bro.
>>Now for people who actually responded for the sake of adding knowledge and insight into the thread...
As an aside, this is why your thread will end up closed. Again.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
In the end, the skill was broken. Not just in how limited it was in scope but now wonky it trained.
You should let this one go. It's not going to change. Escaping is going away. It is gone. It has ceased to be. It is a dead skill. I strongly doubt that the GMs are going to retroactively change skill mergers with the knowledge that the mergers already took place in one game instance. If this conversation took place a few few months ago, maybe. But even then I'd consider it a stretch.
>>But you are just making horrible points to justify your rage towards me. You are so upset you are seeing things how you want, and forgetting basic truths such as any skill trained in combat is not a no risk skill to train.
>>What exactly are you saying here? Cool story bro.
>>Now for people who actually responded for the sake of adding knowledge and insight into the thread...
As an aside, this is why your thread will end up closed. Again.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
I'll add something useful to the thread.
WHO CARES.
It's no use hashing out what you think should happen with escaping, it's already been decided, and 3.0 is right around the corner.
Verathor:
You trained escaping. Good for you! You're a beautiful and unique snowflake, we get it. I trained a thief for a long while who used escaping as a circling skill - It sucked. I remember having friends dance with unyns (because I couldn't yet) just so I could stand in the room, get webbed, and learn escaping. It was horrible, but I did it for RP and a character concept.
The bottom line is this:
Escaping is a broken skill that is going away. Sure, for the 1% of the DR population that actively trained it (via Flee, using escape-training critter progress) that sucks. But 3.0 is about what's best for the game. There's a lot of niche players across the spectrum angry about certain changes - some forgers and crafting, some powertrainers and slower XP gain. Some people are going to have to bite the bullet and realize what is best for them is not best for the game as a whole. This is one of those occasions.
WHO CARES.
It's no use hashing out what you think should happen with escaping, it's already been decided, and 3.0 is right around the corner.
Verathor:
You trained escaping. Good for you! You're a beautiful and unique snowflake, we get it. I trained a thief for a long while who used escaping as a circling skill - It sucked. I remember having friends dance with unyns (because I couldn't yet) just so I could stand in the room, get webbed, and learn escaping. It was horrible, but I did it for RP and a character concept.
The bottom line is this:
Escaping is a broken skill that is going away. Sure, for the 1% of the DR population that actively trained it (via Flee, using escape-training critter progress) that sucks. But 3.0 is about what's best for the game. There's a lot of niche players across the spectrum angry about certain changes - some forgers and crafting, some powertrainers and slower XP gain. Some people are going to have to bite the bullet and realize what is best for them is not best for the game as a whole. This is one of those occasions.
If escaping got moved into tactics, most people would just lose a bunch of bonus bits. Even though your tactics won't be as high when it's grandfathered as it would be if it was set to your escaping, you'll still get it set at circle and have a bunch of extra bonus bits, which is IMO a net positive. If you like to train everything evenly like you state, those bonus bits will be awesome for you.
Here's a litmus test for a conflict: if your post requires the use of a direct you (instead of a general you), your post might be conflictual. Quotes to another post are fine, but we should be discussing the topic and not each other. Everyone, please consider carefully when posting.
Since this topic has now spanned two folders with multiple Mod/GM interventions, any further conflicts will result in a shut down thread with increased ramifications for those posters.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
Since this topic has now spanned two folders with multiple Mod/GM interventions, any further conflicts will result in a shut down thread with increased ramifications for those posters.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
>>Since this topic has now spanned two folders with multiple Mod/GM interventions, any further conflicts will result in a shut down thread with increased ramifications for those posters.
Please do not let ONE person intentionally force you to delete the topic because they want to say YOU to me. I can handle it. I'm a big boy. And everyone is interested. If the post is removed before a single GM response to the issue I'm rather amazed how much you follow the thread yet how little you care about the issue itself.
In reality as in dreams, nothing is quite as it seems.
I want to say that I used to hate this path of escaping, it hurt because I spent a lot of time pushing my escaping at an early stage and still to this day one of my highest survivals is my escaping.
I did this for RP because for one he escaped from goblin slavery, and it seemed right to have the escaping for such a feat. And two he continued, because if ever faced with that reality, he'd want to be able to escape with more then just himself and saving others.
For a long time, months I didn't post anything large, but kept trying to nudge a rethought on the process, and probably didn't game as much because the character is still one of my most favorite concepts.
I've stopped training escaping, stopped listening to escaping classes, stopped requesting escaping classes, basically just stopped escaping. It hurts, I dislike the route but I feel that for the betterment of development this is something that the few 'unique snowflakes' that trained escaping are just going to have to take as a hit.
It would be nice to have something for that effort, but you know we're probably not going to see anything there in. I do feel that while others may disagree that Escaping and how its dying and the ability to escape is shifting into something different is unique to other abilities vs the skill that governs and what will govern it.
I hope Verathor that you can find some peace in this, but again as others have mentioned this stuff is already very much written into the code. It is out in Platinum, and being tweaked there. I am hopeful soon after the festival we'll see it live.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I did this for RP because for one he escaped from goblin slavery, and it seemed right to have the escaping for such a feat. And two he continued, because if ever faced with that reality, he'd want to be able to escape with more then just himself and saving others.
For a long time, months I didn't post anything large, but kept trying to nudge a rethought on the process, and probably didn't game as much because the character is still one of my most favorite concepts.
I've stopped training escaping, stopped listening to escaping classes, stopped requesting escaping classes, basically just stopped escaping. It hurts, I dislike the route but I feel that for the betterment of development this is something that the few 'unique snowflakes' that trained escaping are just going to have to take as a hit.
It would be nice to have something for that effort, but you know we're probably not going to see anything there in. I do feel that while others may disagree that Escaping and how its dying and the ability to escape is shifting into something different is unique to other abilities vs the skill that governs and what will govern it.
I hope Verathor that you can find some peace in this, but again as others have mentioned this stuff is already very much written into the code. It is out in Platinum, and being tweaked there. I am hopeful soon after the festival we'll see it live.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>I fail to see how removing travel skills and essentially letting everyone train how to climb or swim with flee is the best change for the realms.
Not counting the benefits on the player side, by combining swimming and climbing, two things take place on the GM side.
1) GMs don't have to do double duty when it comes to making sure areas have high level swimming AND climbing areas
2) GMs don't have to worry about zones not being used because players might have high climbing, but not high swimming, or high swimming, but not high climbing.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
Not counting the benefits on the player side, by combining swimming and climbing, two things take place on the GM side.
1) GMs don't have to do double duty when it comes to making sure areas have high level swimming AND climbing areas
2) GMs don't have to worry about zones not being used because players might have high climbing, but not high swimming, or high swimming, but not high climbing.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
