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I am new to dragon realms, and chose war mages because they seemed strait forward. Actually I had a moon mage first, but that was to confusing...
So I am fighting rats.. Lots of rats. I get fireball, and figure it should hit multiple rats, but it doesn't.
I ask about area of effect damage spells to some people, and the only low one they can think of is static discharge, but someone said its really awful and you need to have etherial shield up to use it.
Anyway... is Static discharge worth using? I noticed I wont be getting most of the spells in the books for a long time, so I want to choose wisely. Can anyone give me some suggestions? At the moment I have fire shard, ethieral shield, and fire ball.
My advice is to get into the electric book as soon as possible. I'm on circle 35 and I'm still using Gar Zeng prepped at 5 to hunt...and I hunt gargs. For new people to the guild, I suggest Gar Zeng first for a good targetting spell, then etheral shield. I happen to love the mass damage of the electric book. There's aether lance which is awesome, and there there's aether LASH which acts as a whip of electricty. I love cutting off limbs with it.
As for static discharge, I really like it for when I'm brawling. Cast upon the etheral shield, it hurts what I touch. There's also lightening bolt...and while it's dangerous, and a really amusing spell. Zap!
I'm not a complete electric mage though. My spells come from the fire book...just because I wanted mantle of flame...and the water book (fortress of ice is great for making sure battles stay one on one and serves as a temp. house for opening boxes). I think I do pretty well with that. You might want to take a look at the spell lists and map out how to get the spells since the best ones have pre-reqs.
Myth's Player
As for static discharge, I really like it for when I'm brawling. Cast upon the etheral shield, it hurts what I touch. There's also lightening bolt...and while it's dangerous, and a really amusing spell. Zap!
I'm not a complete electric mage though. My spells come from the fire book...just because I wanted mantle of flame...and the water book (fortress of ice is great for making sure battles stay one on one and serves as a temp. house for opening boxes). I think I do pretty well with that. You might want to take a look at the spell lists and map out how to get the spells since the best ones have pre-reqs.
Myth's Player
Well, first... if you want a truly straightforward guild, play a barbarian. It really doesn't get any simpler. (I'm not telling you this to be an ass or to tear down the Barbarian guild in general -- but the guild concept is very simple and their abilities are the easiest to understand/use. If you want a guild you can dive into really easily, that's the one you should go with.)
Second, WMs do have the most expansive list of area-affect spells in the game. Fire Rain, Arc Light, Frostbite, Static Discharge, Zephyr, Thunderclap, and Tremor are all area-affect spells to some degree or another (some will hit only what's engaged with you; others will hit everything in the room). A warning: almost all area-affect spells take significant skill to use reasonably well.
Since you asked for suggestions -- you might consider getting Aether Lance or Gar Zeng. I've heard that they're very good when you're trying to learn TM at lower levels, since they're accurate and you won't be getting all that much punch out of the other first-tier spells yet. (You won't EVER get much punch out of Fist of Stone -- don't get that spell, unless you REALLY want Magnetic Ballista later on.)
_ Altaire
Second, WMs do have the most expansive list of area-affect spells in the game. Fire Rain, Arc Light, Frostbite, Static Discharge, Zephyr, Thunderclap, and Tremor are all area-affect spells to some degree or another (some will hit only what's engaged with you; others will hit everything in the room). A warning: almost all area-affect spells take significant skill to use reasonably well.
Since you asked for suggestions -- you might consider getting Aether Lance or Gar Zeng. I've heard that they're very good when you're trying to learn TM at lower levels, since they're accurate and you won't be getting all that much punch out of the other first-tier spells yet. (You won't EVER get much punch out of Fist of Stone -- don't get that spell, unless you REALLY want Magnetic Ballista later on.)
_ Altaire
>>Actually FoS packs quite a punch.
It's inferior to FS, GZ, and AEL. It packs a pretty crummy punch, in my opinion. If I'm going to put 20 or 30 mana in a spell, I'll put it in a spell that'll hit 2-4 times. More learning, more damage. AEL doesn't even hit multiple times, but it's so much more accurate than FOS that it doesn't matter.
FOS's only saving grace is that you can create temporary weapons with sufficient skill.
_ Altaire
It's inferior to FS, GZ, and AEL. It packs a pretty crummy punch, in my opinion. If I'm going to put 20 or 30 mana in a spell, I'll put it in a spell that'll hit 2-4 times. More learning, more damage. AEL doesn't even hit multiple times, but it's so much more accurate than FOS that it doesn't matter.
FOS's only saving grace is that you can create temporary weapons with sufficient skill.
_ Altaire
I've been a warmage for so long it's ridiculous. But with this new magic system I haven't had much time to experience how the spells work. I recomend getting a good TM spell like GZ or AEL. GZ doesn't seem to teach me anything, but AEL is great... once you have a good spell to work TM you gotta decide how you like to fight. Some spells are better for swarms of critters attacking you, like Thunder Clap (which stuns everything). Unfortunately, I dont' know how effective it is after the magic system tweak. Frostbite also affects a lot of critters, but it does less noticable damage to critters, it seems it's best for fighting other players. (especially barbarians! MUAHAH) Anyway, who ever told you Static Discharge sucks, is crazy. I love that spell! If you're being swarmed and don't want to bother slicing through your opponents, to casts at 12 mana will do some seroius damage. Good luck!
Cuthbert
Cuthbert
<<I recomend getting a good TM spell like GZ or AEL. GZ doesn't seem to teach me anything, but AEL is great... >>
If the new GZ doesnt teach you well you're either rediculously old and the same rules that apply for you don't apply for me, or your hunting something well into your soft cap...GZ is in my opinion one of the top TM teaching spells.
<<Some spells are better for swarms of critters attacking you, like Thunder Clap (which stuns everything). Unfortunately, I dont' know how effective it is after the magic system tweak. Frostbite also affects a lot of critters, but it does less noticable damage to critters, it seems it's best for fighting other players.>>
Can't say on thunderclap myself in its current incarnation, because there are a lot of things out there that dont stun, and I hunt most of them....frostbite (at my level...probably not at a younger level) can drop a room of critters to the ground pretty easily if you use around 15 mana (especially if you use rising mist first) I've also noticed that things that have been frostbitten tend to fall over from the lightest tap. Also if you put enough juice into it, frostbite can kill too. Just remember NEVER, EVER cast it without putting up an ethereal shield first...there is nothing fun about casting this spell with 5 creatures at melee and being dropped to the ground with them...odds are they will get up first.
<<Static Discharge sucks, is crazy. I love that spell! If you're being swarmed and don't want to bother slicing through your opponents, to casts at 12 mana will do some seroius damage. Good luck!>>
Static Discharge is a pretty nifty spell, but it has two serious drawbacks...the way magic resistance causes spells to unravel (on of my biggest disappointments in the new system) and it takes a longer time to prep it than combat (TM) spells.
A few other mass spells of note are vertigo and sometimes if your in trouble paeldryths wrath will do something nasty to everything in the room when you cast it.
Skazar
If the new GZ doesnt teach you well you're either rediculously old and the same rules that apply for you don't apply for me, or your hunting something well into your soft cap...GZ is in my opinion one of the top TM teaching spells.
<<Some spells are better for swarms of critters attacking you, like Thunder Clap (which stuns everything). Unfortunately, I dont' know how effective it is after the magic system tweak. Frostbite also affects a lot of critters, but it does less noticable damage to critters, it seems it's best for fighting other players.>>
Can't say on thunderclap myself in its current incarnation, because there are a lot of things out there that dont stun, and I hunt most of them....frostbite (at my level...probably not at a younger level) can drop a room of critters to the ground pretty easily if you use around 15 mana (especially if you use rising mist first) I've also noticed that things that have been frostbitten tend to fall over from the lightest tap. Also if you put enough juice into it, frostbite can kill too. Just remember NEVER, EVER cast it without putting up an ethereal shield first...there is nothing fun about casting this spell with 5 creatures at melee and being dropped to the ground with them...odds are they will get up first.
<<Static Discharge sucks, is crazy. I love that spell! If you're being swarmed and don't want to bother slicing through your opponents, to casts at 12 mana will do some seroius damage. Good luck!>>
Static Discharge is a pretty nifty spell, but it has two serious drawbacks...the way magic resistance causes spells to unravel (on of my biggest disappointments in the new system) and it takes a longer time to prep it than combat (TM) spells.
A few other mass spells of note are vertigo and sometimes if your in trouble paeldryths wrath will do something nasty to everything in the room when you cast it.
Skazar
I'd say Get AEL, then next get gar Zeng. As stated both are good spells, but it's all personal preferance, I kill Swains with 2-3 snapped 5 prep AEL's and it teaches my target godly. But i'm in my mid 30's level wise so not sure what might be good being young, but I've given the advice to get AEL as a young warmie and most haven't complained, they learn well with it.
Oh, and about the Frostbite, yeah, that spell is awesome, throw up a mantle of flame, prep that thing at 15 and show the bards the true way to Resolve ::grins::
Vinevious
Oh, and about the Frostbite, yeah, that spell is awesome, throw up a mantle of flame, prep that thing at 15 and show the bards the true way to Resolve ::grins::
Vinevious
>>I ask about area of effect damage spells to some people, and the only low one they can think of is static discharge, but someone said its really awful and you need to have etherial shield up to use it.
To actually answer your question, instead of bickering about TM spells...
Static Discharge is by no means an awful spell, although mileage may vary by the mage using it. You do need ES up to use it.
Anabasis
To actually answer your question, instead of bickering about TM spells...
Static Discharge is by no means an awful spell, although mileage may vary by the mage using it. You do need ES up to use it.
Anabasis
<<I happen to love the mass damage of the electric book. There's aether lance which is awesome, and there there's aether LASH which acts as a whip of electricty. I love cutting off limbs with it.>>
Not to nit pick but aether lash/lance are definitely in the AETHER book, not electricity, and lash would be more accurately described as...well...a whip of aether.
Not to nit pick but aether lash/lance are definitely in the AETHER book, not electricity, and lash would be more accurately described as...well...a whip of aether.
>Static Discharge is by no means an awful spell, although mileage may vary by the mage using it.
My results have been somewhere between 'awesome' and 'the best thing evar'. Don't put much more mana into it than you need to stun because the damage seems pretty random after that.
>You do need ES up to use it.
A 1 mana ES will last long enough to fully prep SD.
Steel.
"Gotta kick it to darkness til it bleeds daylight" - Bruce Cockburn, who must have been made fun of a lot in high school.
My results have been somewhere between 'awesome' and 'the best thing evar'. Don't put much more mana into it than you need to stun because the damage seems pretty random after that.
>You do need ES up to use it.
A 1 mana ES will last long enough to fully prep SD.
Steel.
"Gotta kick it to darkness til it bleeds daylight" - Bruce Cockburn, who must have been made fun of a lot in high school.
>Anyway... is Static discharge worth using? I noticed I wont be getting most of the spells in the books for a long time, so I want to choose wisely. Can anyone give me some suggestions? At the moment I have fire shard, ethieral shield, and fire ball.
Shoulda replied before, but here's a list of what I have and what I think of it.
Frostbite - Don't use it that much, others tell me it's good.
Ice Patch - Able to fell some of the strongest critters that don't kill me by looking at me in a single(upwards of 40-50 mana) cast.
SW - WIth this thing up I can dodge stuff I could barely parry before. Possibly the best evasion enhancer in the game, to say nothing of the now 90 parry ranks it gives me. 50 mana cast by a (1 rank from)expert, don't try this at home.
Zephyr - Insanely overpowered. I think a light breeze restored my fatigue from exhausted to completely rested. Not that I'm complaining.
YS - Lightly hindered in crossings half plate, and I can't even cast at the cap yet. And I'm pretty sure I haven't worked off all the hinderance yet either.
Aether Lance - It's a TM spell.
Aether Cloak - Haven't tested it, but the eye thing is cool.
DB - Fun, yet effective. Especially vs swarms; spit at 3 different critters, then smack them in the spot it hit.
Tingle - It works.
Arc Light - Only get this if you're going for SD. I've seen less than remarkable effects with it, and only use it to keep things off balance, rather than get them there.
GZ - Very accurate, and with a random chance of 1-3 blasts, makes a good learniing tool until you get 3-4 shards going with FS(which I haven't done...yet)
SD - Worth getting Arc Light for. My first area effect spell, deals nerve damage, chest damage and stuns everything at melee. Even better if you have prep es 1 and cast macroed, as a 1 mana ES lasts more than long enough to fully prep and cast SD.
Steel.
"Gotta kick it to darkness til it bleeds daylight" - Bruce Cockburn, who must have been made fun of a lot in high school.
Shoulda replied before, but here's a list of what I have and what I think of it.
Frostbite - Don't use it that much, others tell me it's good.
Ice Patch - Able to fell some of the strongest critters that don't kill me by looking at me in a single(upwards of 40-50 mana) cast.
SW - WIth this thing up I can dodge stuff I could barely parry before. Possibly the best evasion enhancer in the game, to say nothing of the now 90 parry ranks it gives me. 50 mana cast by a (1 rank from)expert, don't try this at home.
Zephyr - Insanely overpowered. I think a light breeze restored my fatigue from exhausted to completely rested. Not that I'm complaining.
YS - Lightly hindered in crossings half plate, and I can't even cast at the cap yet. And I'm pretty sure I haven't worked off all the hinderance yet either.
Aether Lance - It's a TM spell.
Aether Cloak - Haven't tested it, but the eye thing is cool.
DB - Fun, yet effective. Especially vs swarms; spit at 3 different critters, then smack them in the spot it hit.
Tingle - It works.
Arc Light - Only get this if you're going for SD. I've seen less than remarkable effects with it, and only use it to keep things off balance, rather than get them there.
GZ - Very accurate, and with a random chance of 1-3 blasts, makes a good learniing tool until you get 3-4 shards going with FS(which I haven't done...yet)
SD - Worth getting Arc Light for. My first area effect spell, deals nerve damage, chest damage and stuns everything at melee. Even better if you have prep es 1 and cast macroed, as a 1 mana ES lasts more than long enough to fully prep and cast SD.
Steel.
"Gotta kick it to darkness til it bleeds daylight" - Bruce Cockburn, who must have been made fun of a lot in high school.
<<SW - WIth this thing up I can dodge stuff I could barely parry before. Possibly the best evasion enhancer in the game, to say nothing of the now 90 parry ranks it gives me. 50 mana cast by a (1 rank from)expert, don't try this at home.>>
I'm not sure what method you're using to measure this, but there is either a flaw in your calculations or the spell is giving you double the Parry bonus at a 50 mana cast than I get at 60 with Master level PM.
Heironymous
__
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
I'm not sure what method you're using to measure this, but there is either a flaw in your calculations or the spell is giving you double the Parry bonus at a 50 mana cast than I get at 60 with Master level PM.
Heironymous
__
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
>>I'm not sure what method you're using to measure this, but there is either a flaw in your calculations or the spell is giving you double the Parry bonus at a 50 mana cast than I get at 60 with Master level PM.
Post your method, because I know my results (taken from about 7-10 people) are a whole lot closer to his than yours.
-Frogspawn
Dragonrealms: Because you've given up on accomplishing anything important with your life.
Post your method, because I know my results (taken from about 7-10 people) are a whole lot closer to his than yours.
-Frogspawn
Dragonrealms: Because you've given up on accomplishing anything important with your life.
> Increase the number of percentage points in Parry, checking "Stance" after each increase, until the order shown flips to Evasion, Parry, Shield. Multiply your Parry skill by the Parry percentage where the order flipped. The difference between this number and your Shield skill is the maximum amount of Parry boost SW provides.
You assume that the bonus is applied after effective parry skill from stance setting is calculated. That is, that you always get 100% of the bonus, even when your parry is set to 60%. If the alternative were the case, the correct calculation would be to divide your shield skill by the parry percentage where the order flipped, then subtract your parry ranks.
That would be in keeping with this:
> I do get lower boost numbers as the Parry percentage declines, which suggests that the bonus scales with stance percentage.
Seldaren
You assume that the bonus is applied after effective parry skill from stance setting is calculated. That is, that you always get 100% of the bonus, even when your parry is set to 60%. If the alternative were the case, the correct calculation would be to divide your shield skill by the parry percentage where the order flipped, then subtract your parry ranks.
That would be in keeping with this:
> I do get lower boost numbers as the Parry percentage declines, which suggests that the bonus scales with stance percentage.
Seldaren
<<Post your method, because I know my results (taken from about 7-10 people) are a whole lot closer to his than yours.
-Frogspawn>>
Set stance Shield to 100, Evasion and Parry to 0. Check "Stance". The order will be Evasion, Shield, Parry. Cast Swirling Winds at maximum. Increase the number of percentage points in Parry, checking "Stance" after each increase, until the order shown flips to Evasion, Parry, Shield. Multiply your Parry skill by the Parry percentage where the order flipped. The difference between this number and your Shield skill is the maximum amount of Parry boost SW provides. Margin of error is 1% of your Parry skill.
Using made up numbers of 200 Shield, 250 Parry.
If the order of stances changes at 100% Shield, 60% Parry.
Subtract 60% of your Parry ranks (150) from your Shield Ranks (200). THis will give a result of a 50 rank boost to Parry from SW.
I've just run this method using lower Shield baselines, and adjusting Parry stance to compensate, and I do get lower boost numbers as the Parry percentage declines, which suggests that the bonus scales with stance percentage. This is (good) news to me, and suggests a higher maximum bonus than I believed to be the case or can measure. I had been working under the impression that SW provided a flat rank bonus, rather than a scalable one.
I freely admit I was wrong about what my maximum bonus is, though with my Shield skill at only 2/3s of my Parry skill, I can't measure using a percentage higher than 49% Parry, or come close to finding the cap if there is one (I assume there is).
I am not aware of any other methods that allow you to accurately measure the Parry boost since Assess Teach was changed to show differences in only actual skill. I am aware of tests measuring the Evasion boost vs. Harawep's Bonds casts, but not since magic 2.1, and I consider that method to have a significant margin of error. If there are other methods that allow you to measure the Parry boost without relying on subjective data such as "I get hit x percent less", I'd love to hear about them.
Heironymous
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
-Frogspawn>>
Set stance Shield to 100, Evasion and Parry to 0. Check "Stance". The order will be Evasion, Shield, Parry. Cast Swirling Winds at maximum. Increase the number of percentage points in Parry, checking "Stance" after each increase, until the order shown flips to Evasion, Parry, Shield. Multiply your Parry skill by the Parry percentage where the order flipped. The difference between this number and your Shield skill is the maximum amount of Parry boost SW provides. Margin of error is 1% of your Parry skill.
Using made up numbers of 200 Shield, 250 Parry.
If the order of stances changes at 100% Shield, 60% Parry.
Subtract 60% of your Parry ranks (150) from your Shield Ranks (200). THis will give a result of a 50 rank boost to Parry from SW.
I've just run this method using lower Shield baselines, and adjusting Parry stance to compensate, and I do get lower boost numbers as the Parry percentage declines, which suggests that the bonus scales with stance percentage. This is (good) news to me, and suggests a higher maximum bonus than I believed to be the case or can measure. I had been working under the impression that SW provided a flat rank bonus, rather than a scalable one.
I freely admit I was wrong about what my maximum bonus is, though with my Shield skill at only 2/3s of my Parry skill, I can't measure using a percentage higher than 49% Parry, or come close to finding the cap if there is one (I assume there is).
I am not aware of any other methods that allow you to accurately measure the Parry boost since Assess Teach was changed to show differences in only actual skill. I am aware of tests measuring the Evasion boost vs. Harawep's Bonds casts, but not since magic 2.1, and I consider that method to have a significant margin of error. If there are other methods that allow you to measure the Parry boost without relying on subjective data such as "I get hit x percent less", I'd love to hear about them.
Heironymous
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
<<You assume that the bonus is applied after effective parry skill from stance setting is calculated. That is, that you always get 100% of the bonus, even when your parry is set to 60%. If the alternative were the case, the correct calculation would be to divide your shield skill by the parry percentage where the order flipped, then subtract your parry ranks.>>
You are absolutely correct, and as I hope was clear from my last post, I now understand that my original idea of the flat rank bonus on top of effective skill is wrong. However, my formula does have the advantage of showing the actual effective rank bonus, and given a test subject with the proper skill arrangement, could identify an arbitrary cap if one exists, which your formula would not.
It's all good though. I'm glad to learn I'm getting more bang from my mana buck than I thought. I was wrong, Steel is possibly right (though I do think there is a cap, best guess ~60, that's where it was when Assess Teach worked). Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa :)
Heironymous
__
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
You are absolutely correct, and as I hope was clear from my last post, I now understand that my original idea of the flat rank bonus on top of effective skill is wrong. However, my formula does have the advantage of showing the actual effective rank bonus, and given a test subject with the proper skill arrangement, could identify an arbitrary cap if one exists, which your formula would not.
It's all good though. I'm glad to learn I'm getting more bang from my mana buck than I thought. I was wrong, Steel is possibly right (though I do think there is a cap, best guess ~60, that's where it was when Assess Teach worked). Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa :)
Heironymous
__
"That's a good idea, Chuck,
But syrup won't stop 'em!"
Ok..
My method assumed the stance points were applied to the bonus (which I believe we shoed at some point in time, though I can't for the life of me come up with how we did it).
Bonus=(Shield ranks)/(Parry Stance)-(Parry Ranks)
This gave us a max bonus of about 105 +/- 5 ranks.
Of course, now that the tweak went in that no longer allows me to exceed 100% of my spell potential, I'm seeing closer to 98 +/- 4 ranks.
-Frogspawn
Dragonrealms: Because you've given up on accomplishing anything important with your life.
My method assumed the stance points were applied to the bonus (which I believe we shoed at some point in time, though I can't for the life of me come up with how we did it).
Bonus=(Shield ranks)/(Parry Stance)-(Parry Ranks)
This gave us a max bonus of about 105 +/- 5 ranks.
Of course, now that the tweak went in that no longer allows me to exceed 100% of my spell potential, I'm seeing closer to 98 +/- 4 ranks.
-Frogspawn
Dragonrealms: Because you've given up on accomplishing anything important with your life.
<<>>AC + ES = almost TM immunity as long as you're on your feet and fighting something even remotely near your level
>>
Yes, really. The highest level MM in TF (Fatal) can't get through a mediocre (54th circle, 200 evasion) WM's AC + ES with burn without blasting him first. I can't get through the same WM with any TM spell at ANY mana level without blasting first with 255 TM (although, admittedly, if I blast him first it's a oneshot)
>>
Yes, really. The highest level MM in TF (Fatal) can't get through a mediocre (54th circle, 200 evasion) WM's AC + ES with burn without blasting him first. I can't get through the same WM with any TM spell at ANY mana level without blasting first with 255 TM (although, admittedly, if I blast him first it's a oneshot)
> My method assumed the stance points were applied to the bonus (which I believe we shoed at some point in time, though I can't for the life of me come up with how we did it).
Well, one way to test would be to repeat your method at various levels of shield stance. For instance, set your shield to 50%, then do:
Bonus=(Effective Shield ranks)/(Parry Stance)-(Parry Ranks)
If stance points are applied to the bonus, we would expect to get the same number as before.
Seldaren
Well, one way to test would be to repeat your method at various levels of shield stance. For instance, set your shield to 50%, then do:
Bonus=(Effective Shield ranks)/(Parry Stance)-(Parry Ranks)
If stance points are applied to the bonus, we would expect to get the same number as before.
Seldaren
