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lets see, keyblank costs, what, 400 coppers for an iron one? master iron lockpicks sell for around 4 gold. wow, 1000% markup. Yeah, you're right, 200-400% for rangers is ludicrous. Especially when creation systems are getting away from guild dominance. (except for guild monopolies)
As far as tanning goes, right now,only a few rangers are making tanned items that are 'better than' store bought. Yes I agree that creation systems shouldn't be exclusive, but why shouldn't guilds have different aptitudes towards different systems. Rangers have the greatest bonus to tanning, but they're not alone. Teefs also had one, as well as traders and pallies I think (I'll have to search my archives of the meeting sometime). So we never had true 'dominance', just a greater advantage. No cap that we exceeded. The best way to describe it is we were tanning primary while barbs, teefs, traders and pallies were secondary and the rest were terts. They could attain as much skill in it as rangers, but had to work harder to do so.
Fred
Okay, my previous test wasn't good enough. I'm going to skin 20 blood wolves and get skillful peels, and then skin 20 and get trophies and it'll be the exact same results as last time I'd wager, a 2.3x more money for a perfect arranged pelt. But doubling the difficulty and getting double the money isn't unbalanced at all. Twice as hard, twice as profitable. Just that our guild has the ability to do so and others don't is the arguement.
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
>lets see, keyblank costs, what, 400 coppers for an iron one? master iron lockpicks sell for around 4 gold. wow, 1000% markup. Yeah, you're right, 200-400% for rangers is ludicrous. Especially when creation systems are getting away from guild dominance. (except for guild monopolies)
One of these requires a player buyer, the other does not. I'll let you figure out the differences.
>Okay, my previous test wasn't good enough. I'm going to skin 20 blood wolves and get skillful peels, and then skin 20 and get trophies and it'll be the exact same results as last time I'd wager, a 2.3x more money for a perfect arranged pelt. But doubling the difficulty and getting double the money isn't unbalanced at all. Twice as hard, twice as profitable. Just that our guild has the ability to do so and others don't is the arguement.
Teeklin, I'm not saying this to be rude, but gain a couple hundred more skinning ranks and test against higher creatures. Then it'll be more relevant.
We're talking about arranging 40-50+ creatures, not bobcats and wolves. That's where the larger discrepancies are.
One of these requires a player buyer, the other does not. I'll let you figure out the differences.
>Okay, my previous test wasn't good enough. I'm going to skin 20 blood wolves and get skillful peels, and then skin 20 and get trophies and it'll be the exact same results as last time I'd wager, a 2.3x more money for a perfect arranged pelt. But doubling the difficulty and getting double the money isn't unbalanced at all. Twice as hard, twice as profitable. Just that our guild has the ability to do so and others don't is the arguement.
Teeklin, I'm not saying this to be rude, but gain a couple hundred more skinning ranks and test against higher creatures. Then it'll be more relevant.
We're talking about arranging 40-50+ creatures, not bobcats and wolves. That's where the larger discrepancies are.
Well then, that's news to me. Didn't know the gap was larger the bigger the critters got considering the only things that I've gotten trophies on have been totally consistant as far as price goes. On goblins, a skillful peel is 16 kronars and a trophy is 35...which is 2.2x more give or take some. The same range of prices for cougars, bobcats, blood wolves, wolf spiders, reavers, and crocs in my experience so I just assumed that it was the same price increase across the board. My mistake.
However one thing that I would like to add is that if it takes 300 skinning to get a skillful peel off of something, then you have to add the 150-200% to the difficulty as well as the price, and so it's not unreasonable to see a greater increase in price increase the greater the skill needed. It's not like needing 10 skinning to skin a goblin and then needing 20 to get a trophy, it's like needing 200 to skin something and needing 400 for a trophy...and it's not really that unreasonable to give someone underhunting THAT much a significant price increase. Just my thoughts, I don't have any hard numbers to post and can't get a trophy on anything harder than a croc I don't think.
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
However one thing that I would like to add is that if it takes 300 skinning to get a skillful peel off of something, then you have to add the 150-200% to the difficulty as well as the price, and so it's not unreasonable to see a greater increase in price increase the greater the skill needed. It's not like needing 10 skinning to skin a goblin and then needing 20 to get a trophy, it's like needing 200 to skin something and needing 400 for a trophy...and it's not really that unreasonable to give someone underhunting THAT much a significant price increase. Just my thoughts, I don't have any hard numbers to post and can't get a trophy on anything harder than a croc I don't think.
-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia
>If you want plate, go to a paladin. You want a weapon, go to a barbarian.
This thinking is set to be buried by the smithing rewrite.If they are taking our guild diversity in regards to smithing,they should do the same to other mundane creation systems(fletching,tanning,embroidery)
Drachus
This thinking is set to be buried by the smithing rewrite.If they are taking our guild diversity in regards to smithing,they should do the same to other mundane creation systems(fletching,tanning,embroidery)
Drachus
<<Two key issues here. One is the economic aspect, to which you even agreed was out of whack. I'm sorry, but 200-400% bonus is insane. If anyone deserves that kind of econ bonus it's traders, not rangers.>>
I see no problem with 200% although 400% would be realy wacked. The thing that's not being seen (or is being seen and being ignored) is if I skin and arranged critter and get trophys all the time a) I ain't learning a thing and b) I could make approx the same coin AND learn by skinning normal at my skinning level. Not to bash Traders here, but why should they be the only guild to have an econ bonus?
<<Second is the tanning, creation systems are getting away from guild dominance, so it makes no sense for rangers to retain this while barbs/paladins lose theirs.>>
No they are not for the most part. Before lockpick carving became Thief only again (and correct me if I'm wrong) noone could carve anything worth using without massive boosts from CJ/predictions. Unless you're a Trader you're not going to embroider better than simple. With things in the works for potions/FA/bandages there are going to be a number of things only one or several guilds can do well with the rest only being able to do fair or mediocre at best. Moon Mages have a corner on J/K gweths.
As far as Barbs/Paladins go, Forging 2 is still in the works and Fial is doing some re-thinking with the announcement of dis-establishment of mech lore and introduction of smithing. Nothing is firm yet and the best any player can do at this point is guess. Until such a time as something is decided, done, QA'd, implemented, etc, the best any non-Barb/non-Paladin can do is tinker in the forges while the Barbs and Paladinds continue to have dominance in a quite lucrative market.
Finally, I see nothing wrong with closed/semi-closed systems. I don't begrudge any of the guilds I used as examples above, it keeps them unique. Too many players today want to do everything themselves which would ultimately cheapen the systems and render guild distinction moot.
You want a perfect pelt? Just ask a Ranger. Chances are that they'll just give you one for the asking (free!).
Hymel
I see no problem with 200% although 400% would be realy wacked. The thing that's not being seen (or is being seen and being ignored) is if I skin and arranged critter and get trophys all the time a) I ain't learning a thing and b) I could make approx the same coin AND learn by skinning normal at my skinning level. Not to bash Traders here, but why should they be the only guild to have an econ bonus?
<<Second is the tanning, creation systems are getting away from guild dominance, so it makes no sense for rangers to retain this while barbs/paladins lose theirs.>>
No they are not for the most part. Before lockpick carving became Thief only again (and correct me if I'm wrong) noone could carve anything worth using without massive boosts from CJ/predictions. Unless you're a Trader you're not going to embroider better than simple. With things in the works for potions/FA/bandages there are going to be a number of things only one or several guilds can do well with the rest only being able to do fair or mediocre at best. Moon Mages have a corner on J/K gweths.
As far as Barbs/Paladins go, Forging 2 is still in the works and Fial is doing some re-thinking with the announcement of dis-establishment of mech lore and introduction of smithing. Nothing is firm yet and the best any player can do at this point is guess. Until such a time as something is decided, done, QA'd, implemented, etc, the best any non-Barb/non-Paladin can do is tinker in the forges while the Barbs and Paladinds continue to have dominance in a quite lucrative market.
Finally, I see nothing wrong with closed/semi-closed systems. I don't begrudge any of the guilds I used as examples above, it keeps them unique. Too many players today want to do everything themselves which would ultimately cheapen the systems and render guild distinction moot.
You want a perfect pelt? Just ask a Ranger. Chances are that they'll just give you one for the asking (free!).
Hymel
>I see no problem with 200% although 400% would be realy wacked. The thing that's not being seen (or is being seen and being ignored) is if I skin and arranged critter and get trophys all the time a) I ain't learning a thing and b) I could make approx the same coin AND learn by skinning normal at my skinning level.
You know of a pelt/hide/etc that values at 600-800 without arrange? Sure love to hear of it.
I think I got 350-430 for malchata ribs, would really love to hear what dritz/feng gets on arranging these.
>Not to bash Traders here, but why should they be the only guild to have an econ bonus?
Saying if anyone should have one that good it should be them. I'm not against rangers having a bonus, I'd say more along the lines of 30-50% with a cap of so many silvers per skin.
I guess the other stuff we'll just wait and see, but I get the distinct impression the majority of creation systems are going more skill based (Which I'm all for). Guild distinction is a grand thing, but not at the expense of common sense things.
At any rate, enough posts from me on it, so I'll go back to quietly reading the thread for now. =)
Xavier
You know of a pelt/hide/etc that values at 600-800 without arrange? Sure love to hear of it.
I think I got 350-430 for malchata ribs, would really love to hear what dritz/feng gets on arranging these.
>Not to bash Traders here, but why should they be the only guild to have an econ bonus?
Saying if anyone should have one that good it should be them. I'm not against rangers having a bonus, I'd say more along the lines of 30-50% with a cap of so many silvers per skin.
I guess the other stuff we'll just wait and see, but I get the distinct impression the majority of creation systems are going more skill based (Which I'm all for). Guild distinction is a grand thing, but not at the expense of common sense things.
At any rate, enough posts from me on it, so I'll go back to quietly reading the thread for now. =)
Xavier
>Also, Solomon posted a while back about a desire to see more guild interdependence. Your proposal circumvents that completely.
So what?Just because solomon wants it doesnt make it a good thing.I would rather stick to somthing I can do all on my own than be dependant on other guilds for support.As soon as rangers become dependant on barbarians for somthing in the forging process,Ill agree.
Drachus
So what?Just because solomon wants it doesnt make it a good thing.I would rather stick to somthing I can do all on my own than be dependant on other guilds for support.As soon as rangers become dependant on barbarians for somthing in the forging process,Ill agree.
Drachus
<<So Jent, your thoughts on the huge money difference between a non-ranger best skin and an arranged one? I have 350 in skinning and max out for example under 300 on an un skin, where a ranger with less skinning will get 800 or so if arranged. To me that seems way way out of line.>>
Nope, I agree with ya, sounds out of line.
<<I would think with all the changes concerning global caps and fairness to all skills this one would indeed be looked at.>>
The Global Caps deal with skill enhancers and arrange is within the caps. The economic effects are a separate point and are valid, we will look into it when we have a chance.
I said at Simucon I would look into see why trophy's are not achievable for non-rangers and I will. I agree there should be an option for others to get trophy skins.
It is on the list and we will get to it when we can.
Later,
Jent
Nope, I agree with ya, sounds out of line.
<<I would think with all the changes concerning global caps and fairness to all skills this one would indeed be looked at.>>
The Global Caps deal with skill enhancers and arrange is within the caps. The economic effects are a separate point and are valid, we will look into it when we have a chance.
I said at Simucon I would look into see why trophy's are not achievable for non-rangers and I will. I agree there should be an option for others to get trophy skins.
It is on the list and we will get to it when we can.
Later,
Jent
>>>>It takes more then skill ranks, but professional knowledge, to do that.<<<<
Kinda like the thief lockpick making ability(not that I personally agree with the decsion to move it back to the thief guild since rangers carve stuff ALOT more than thieves,but thats niehter here nor there).
As a member of the "survival" guild we are notorious for hunting,skinnIng,and tanning(well we SHOULD BE) and of course our ability to "arrange" the skins,because its required of us to learn skinning specifically in order to circle all the way up to 100 circles.Just like thieves are required to learn the locpicking ability.So after that much training it makes since that there are certain skills that only we know about skinning just as there are lockpick carving skills and tricks that would only be known to a thief,or healing abilites known to empaths,or gweth making known only to Moonies...this could apply to every guild and theyre "trade secrets"
Izzit
Kinda like the thief lockpick making ability(not that I personally agree with the decsion to move it back to the thief guild since rangers carve stuff ALOT more than thieves,but thats niehter here nor there).
As a member of the "survival" guild we are notorious for hunting,skinnIng,and tanning(well we SHOULD BE) and of course our ability to "arrange" the skins,because its required of us to learn skinning specifically in order to circle all the way up to 100 circles.Just like thieves are required to learn the locpicking ability.So after that much training it makes since that there are certain skills that only we know about skinning just as there are lockpick carving skills and tricks that would only be known to a thief,or healing abilites known to empaths,or gweth making known only to Moonies...this could apply to every guild and theyre "trade secrets"
Izzit
>>>>Im sorry,I resent posts like this.It contributes nothing to the discussion at hand,which is the tanning system being too biased towards rangers by giving them a double bonus,that of trophy pelts and a an inherent bonus to the process.<<<<
As a member of said guild I resent posts that say certain skills are Ranger biased...to a point I agree,the skinning skills are biased towards rangers,but what other guild has that as a primary skill?
Do you think that the stealing system is biased towards thieves?? that the healing system is biased towards Empaths??
that the magic system is biased towards mages??
Those skills should be biased towards the specific guilds.We get training from our guild leaders that make that bias acceptable.Justlike thieves get stealing abilites and Mages(be it Warmies or Moonies)get magic training.I'd think it would be funny if a mage of the same rank as I count cast spells as well as I could,that "bias" you speak of takes care of that problem.
I dont know which guild you are in but im sure youd be pretty upset if I could use one of your primary skills better than you could at the same level.
Izzit
As a member of said guild I resent posts that say certain skills are Ranger biased...to a point I agree,the skinning skills are biased towards rangers,but what other guild has that as a primary skill?
Do you think that the stealing system is biased towards thieves?? that the healing system is biased towards Empaths??
that the magic system is biased towards mages??
Those skills should be biased towards the specific guilds.We get training from our guild leaders that make that bias acceptable.Justlike thieves get stealing abilites and Mages(be it Warmies or Moonies)get magic training.I'd think it would be funny if a mage of the same rank as I count cast spells as well as I could,that "bias" you speak of takes care of that problem.
I dont know which guild you are in but im sure youd be pretty upset if I could use one of your primary skills better than you could at the same level.
Izzit
>>>>Also consider that if someone wants to tan something, all they have to do is ask a Ranger to skin the thing that they want real fast.<<<<
Exactly,give the guild some purpose other than leading people through Leucros.I'd me more than willing to help out anyone who ever came up to me and asked me to get them a trophy skin.Its a win win situation for everyone.Character X gets a trophy skin and the Ranger gets experience for skinning it.
Kinda like carving burin handles for moonies ;)
Izzit
Exactly,give the guild some purpose other than leading people through Leucros.I'd me more than willing to help out anyone who ever came up to me and asked me to get them a trophy skin.Its a win win situation for everyone.Character X gets a trophy skin and the Ranger gets experience for skinning it.
Kinda like carving burin handles for moonies ;)
Izzit
>>Those skills should be biased towards the specific guilds.We get training from our guild leaders that make that bias acceptable.Justlike thieves get stealing abilites and Mages(be it Warmies or Moonies)get magic training.I'd think it would be funny if a mage of the same rank as I count cast spells as well as I could,that "bias" you speak of takes care of that problem.
You might want to rethink this portion of your argument. Neither Moon Mages nor Warrio Mages get any sort of bonus, other than those implicit in a skill being in a Primary skill set, to magic. None, nada, zippo.
Anyone in any of the magic using guilds can cast almost any spell with exactly the same effect as anyone else in any of the other magic using guilds with the same skill ranks. There are some potential new hazards, but they can be overcome with the use of common sense and the skill your character already has.
So, your argument actually says that anyone with the same skill ranks in skinning as a Ranger should be able to skin exactly the same as that Ranger.
Except that Rangers get TWO bonuses to skinning, not just one. First, they get a guild bonus, significant enough to make skinning at their hunting level not be able to teach them. Second, they get to use the Arrange command, which, while it makes skinning harder, which was the actual purpose it was designed for, also winds up having, in the past, broken a portion of the Tanning system.
Jent has decided that he is going to look into making it possible for non-Rangers or Rangers to be able to get an occasional trophy skin without having to use the Arrange verb. But a skillful Ranger will still have a much better chance of obtaining a trophy pelt using the Arrange verb.
So, until the whole Ranger bonus broke skinning issue is resolved, this appears to me to be a win-win situation.
Also regarding whether or not skills are "Ranger-biased", as long as there is a Ranger bonus that affects the performance level of a Ranger using a skill, that skill is Ranger biased. Some skills ARE biased toward one or more guilds, that is part of what differentiates the guilds in the game. Unfortunately, some guilds do not have any real "Guild-biased" skills, even though they should. But that topic is not for this thread, and has been fought to exhaustion before.
Kyn
You might want to rethink this portion of your argument. Neither Moon Mages nor Warrio Mages get any sort of bonus, other than those implicit in a skill being in a Primary skill set, to magic. None, nada, zippo.
Anyone in any of the magic using guilds can cast almost any spell with exactly the same effect as anyone else in any of the other magic using guilds with the same skill ranks. There are some potential new hazards, but they can be overcome with the use of common sense and the skill your character already has.
So, your argument actually says that anyone with the same skill ranks in skinning as a Ranger should be able to skin exactly the same as that Ranger.
Except that Rangers get TWO bonuses to skinning, not just one. First, they get a guild bonus, significant enough to make skinning at their hunting level not be able to teach them. Second, they get to use the Arrange command, which, while it makes skinning harder, which was the actual purpose it was designed for, also winds up having, in the past, broken a portion of the Tanning system.
Jent has decided that he is going to look into making it possible for non-Rangers or Rangers to be able to get an occasional trophy skin without having to use the Arrange verb. But a skillful Ranger will still have a much better chance of obtaining a trophy pelt using the Arrange verb.
So, until the whole Ranger bonus broke skinning issue is resolved, this appears to me to be a win-win situation.
Also regarding whether or not skills are "Ranger-biased", as long as there is a Ranger bonus that affects the performance level of a Ranger using a skill, that skill is Ranger biased. Some skills ARE biased toward one or more guilds, that is part of what differentiates the guilds in the game. Unfortunately, some guilds do not have any real "Guild-biased" skills, even though they should. But that topic is not for this thread, and has been fought to exhaustion before.
Kyn
>>>>Galain, however, does have a good point about skin prices. With almost the same skinning skills, my capped out max on skin prices often is four times over his.<<<<
Maybe its just me,but this seems like a tanning shop problem and not a skill problem.I mean,who knows maybe all the pelt buyers in Elanthia used to be rangers and are therefore more likely to give a Ranger more coin for a skin than a Thief,Bard,Cleric etc etc etc.
I upset that lockpick carving is a thief only ability now but thats a personal issue and in no way ruins the integrity of the game.Just means I'll be nicer to my thief friends so theyll make lockpicks for me.Makes their guild good for something other than stealing stuff,and arranging makes our guild good for something other than foragin herbs and helping lost characters.
Of course the flip side of that coin is that I think that foraging should have a bonus for Paladins and Barbs only since they are wepons masters by right.I should have the same penalty for making a weapon that a non ranger has for skinning.I dont ever expect my ranger to know anything about metalluragy(sp?) unless he is trained in such things and even then he would have a difficult time doing it as well as a barb or a pallie no matter what his skill.Because I had no guild leader to tell me the REAL secrets behind the skill.
Izzit
Izzit
Maybe its just me,but this seems like a tanning shop problem and not a skill problem.I mean,who knows maybe all the pelt buyers in Elanthia used to be rangers and are therefore more likely to give a Ranger more coin for a skin than a Thief,Bard,Cleric etc etc etc.
I upset that lockpick carving is a thief only ability now but thats a personal issue and in no way ruins the integrity of the game.Just means I'll be nicer to my thief friends so theyll make lockpicks for me.Makes their guild good for something other than stealing stuff,and arranging makes our guild good for something other than foragin herbs and helping lost characters.
Of course the flip side of that coin is that I think that foraging should have a bonus for Paladins and Barbs only since they are wepons masters by right.I should have the same penalty for making a weapon that a non ranger has for skinning.I dont ever expect my ranger to know anything about metalluragy(sp?) unless he is trained in such things and even then he would have a difficult time doing it as well as a barb or a pallie no matter what his skill.Because I had no guild leader to tell me the REAL secrets behind the skill.
Izzit
Izzit
>Maybe its just me,but this seems like a tanning shop problem and not a skill problem.I mean,who knows maybe all the pelt buyers in Elanthia used to be rangers and are therefore more likely to give a Ranger more coin for a skin than a Thief,Bard,Cleric etc etc etc.
Uh..no.
A ranger can skin, and have another guild sell them, and get the higher values. The value is attached to the skin object apparently which is created with skill.
Uh..no.
A ranger can skin, and have another guild sell them, and get the higher values. The value is attached to the skin object apparently which is created with skill.
Im pretty sure i said the TANNING process was overly biased towards rangers for having a process bonus and a quality bonus via superb pelts.I dont care about the skinning skill.
I must reinforce again,my concerns are ONLY FOR TANNING!!!
Trophy pelts arent exactly found in abundance.Imagine each trphy pelt being a slug in the forging process.You know how many time you mess up and remelt blades?Well you cant remelt and reuse pelts,they are gone for good once you screw up.
Drachus
I must reinforce again,my concerns are ONLY FOR TANNING!!!
Trophy pelts arent exactly found in abundance.Imagine each trphy pelt being a slug in the forging process.You know how many time you mess up and remelt blades?Well you cant remelt and reuse pelts,they are gone for good once you screw up.
Drachus
>>>>>If you want plate, go to a paladin. You want a weapon, go to a barbarian.
This thinking is set to be buried by the smithing rewrite.If they are taking our guild diversity in regards to smithing,they should do the same to other mundane creation systems(fletching,tanning,embroidery)<<<<
See this is where I disagree on the rewrite,IT MAKES SENSE that if you want a weapon youd go to a barbarian.Opening forging to everyone does indeed take away alot of diversity from those guilds.
Soon well see empaths forging nice weapons,then I will have to leave due to incongruities in the RP system.
Oh! Sorry to get off topic.Arranging,yeah thats it!
Izzit
This thinking is set to be buried by the smithing rewrite.If they are taking our guild diversity in regards to smithing,they should do the same to other mundane creation systems(fletching,tanning,embroidery)<<<<
See this is where I disagree on the rewrite,IT MAKES SENSE that if you want a weapon youd go to a barbarian.Opening forging to everyone does indeed take away alot of diversity from those guilds.
Soon well see empaths forging nice weapons,then I will have to leave due to incongruities in the RP system.
Oh! Sorry to get off topic.Arranging,yeah thats it!
Izzit
<<See this is where I disagree on the rewrite,IT MAKES SENSE that if you want a weapon youd go to a barbarian.Opening forging to everyone does indeed take away alot of diversity from those guilds.>>
Using a weapon and making one are two different things. Simply know how to kill a monster shouldn't make you better at constructing a weapon.
Using a weapon and making one are two different things. Simply know how to kill a monster shouldn't make you better at constructing a weapon.
Where I have problems with the arranging and trophies is in the economics of it.
IF all the economic systems were equal--then I'd have no problem with rangers ALWAYS being the only ones able to produce a pelt that is worth more economically.
But as I've said before:
The tanner buys a bazillion pelts, the gemshop buys a bazillion small diopsides.
But the Pawn shop doesn't buy a bazillion stolen bracelets.
And THAT is where the problem lies.
schvartzgonif -"its the economy,stupid"- savakian
IF all the economic systems were equal--then I'd have no problem with rangers ALWAYS being the only ones able to produce a pelt that is worth more economically.
But as I've said before:
The tanner buys a bazillion pelts, the gemshop buys a bazillion small diopsides.
But the Pawn shop doesn't buy a bazillion stolen bracelets.
And THAT is where the problem lies.
schvartzgonif -"its the economy,stupid"- savakian
>>>>>Maybe its just me,but this seems like a tanning shop problem and not a skill problem.I mean,who knows maybe all the pelt buyers in Elanthia used to be rangers and are therefore more likely to give a Ranger more coin for a skin than a Thief,Bard,Cleric etc etc etc.
Uh..no.
A ranger can skin, and have another guild sell them, and get the higher values. The value is attached to the skin object apparently which is created with skill.<<<<
I know this,it was just a musing on an IC reason why,and not even a very serious one.Not to mention I have never lat antoher guild member sell anything of mine unless its been something like a gweth since my character does not even use the foul stones and therefore has no idea of their true worth.
Continuing on with this conversation if the other guilds do not have special bonuses attached to their "guild specific" skills then I agree, the system is unfair.
As a ranger of course I am biased,I belive that my guild is better than the rest,but that still gives no reason for us to have a skill with bonuses without having the other guild have thier own skills with just as much as a bonus.
Uh..no.
A ranger can skin, and have another guild sell them, and get the higher values. The value is attached to the skin object apparently which is created with skill.<<<<
I know this,it was just a musing on an IC reason why,and not even a very serious one.Not to mention I have never lat antoher guild member sell anything of mine unless its been something like a gweth since my character does not even use the foul stones and therefore has no idea of their true worth.
Continuing on with this conversation if the other guilds do not have special bonuses attached to their "guild specific" skills then I agree, the system is unfair.
As a ranger of course I am biased,I belive that my guild is better than the rest,but that still gives no reason for us to have a skill with bonuses without having the other guild have thier own skills with just as much as a bonus.
>>>><<No, it would make sense to go to a smith.>>
And as soon as we have a smithing guild put in this can hold true. . .but for now:
<<Soldiers fight, not make weapons.>>
is just a reference to the way things worked in RL. . .in DR our "soldiers" do both. . .<<<<
Exactly,theres no such thing as a smithing guild but Barbs are "wepons masters" correct?Therefore if I wanted something forged I'd go see a barbarian,just as much as I'd expect them to come to a Ranger for tanned goods or longbows/shortbows or arrows.
But one thing I do agree with is that if forging is open to all guilds there should be a HEAVY penalty attached to it so that non-Barbs could forge stuff but never as good as a Barb could and never as good or better than store bought.
No more than a non-Ranger should be able to tan something better than a Ranger.
Izzit
And as soon as we have a smithing guild put in this can hold true. . .but for now:
<<Soldiers fight, not make weapons.>>
is just a reference to the way things worked in RL. . .in DR our "soldiers" do both. . .<<<<
Exactly,theres no such thing as a smithing guild but Barbs are "wepons masters" correct?Therefore if I wanted something forged I'd go see a barbarian,just as much as I'd expect them to come to a Ranger for tanned goods or longbows/shortbows or arrows.
But one thing I do agree with is that if forging is open to all guilds there should be a HEAVY penalty attached to it so that non-Barbs could forge stuff but never as good as a Barb could and never as good or better than store bought.
No more than a non-Ranger should be able to tan something better than a Ranger.
Izzit
>>Continuing on with this conversation if the other guilds do not have special bonuses attached to their "guild specific" skills then I agree, the system is unfair.
ROFLMAO. Play a Warrior Mage, Cleric or several other guilds, and answer the question about "What is that guild's guild specific skill?"
There are several guilds that do not have any guild-only skill. WMs, as an example, are supposed to be the "masters of TM". They are not the only guild that has access to that skill, and the closest thing to a "bonus" they get with it is that they have the largest number of native TM-using spells. Which is mainly because they are the only guild with a specific TM requirement (Clerics still don't have one, only a proposed one, which hasn't even been enumerated yet...).
And, until Magic v2.1, TM was a joke skill. Oh, and my comment on "native" spells is because a significant quantity of the MD items out there contain WM TM spells.
>>As a ranger of course I am biased,I belive that my guild is better than the rest,but that still gives no reason for us to have a skill with bonuses without having the other guild have thier own skills with just as much as a bonus.
So, just remember that there are other guilds, not only without any sort of skill bonus, but without any guild-specific skill.
Kyn
ROFLMAO. Play a Warrior Mage, Cleric or several other guilds, and answer the question about "What is that guild's guild specific skill?"
There are several guilds that do not have any guild-only skill. WMs, as an example, are supposed to be the "masters of TM". They are not the only guild that has access to that skill, and the closest thing to a "bonus" they get with it is that they have the largest number of native TM-using spells. Which is mainly because they are the only guild with a specific TM requirement (Clerics still don't have one, only a proposed one, which hasn't even been enumerated yet...).
And, until Magic v2.1, TM was a joke skill. Oh, and my comment on "native" spells is because a significant quantity of the MD items out there contain WM TM spells.
>>As a ranger of course I am biased,I belive that my guild is better than the rest,but that still gives no reason for us to have a skill with bonuses without having the other guild have thier own skills with just as much as a bonus.
So, just remember that there are other guilds, not only without any sort of skill bonus, but without any guild-specific skill.
Kyn
>>But one thing I do agree with is that if forging is open to all guilds there should be a HEAVY penalty attached to it so that non-Barbs could forge stuff but never as good as a Barb could and never as good or better than store bought.
No penalty. But Barbarians will have a bonus to weapons smithing, and Paladins will have a bonus to armor smithing. Just like Rangers get a bonus to tanning.
And anyone, with enough skill, can and should make stuff better than store bought, or what's the purpose in smithing/tanning/fletching?
Kyn
No penalty. But Barbarians will have a bonus to weapons smithing, and Paladins will have a bonus to armor smithing. Just like Rangers get a bonus to tanning.
And anyone, with enough skill, can and should make stuff better than store bought, or what's the purpose in smithing/tanning/fletching?
Kyn
<<But the Pawn shop doesn't buy a bazillion stolen bracelets.
He'l buy hundreds of those satchels from ya though, and you don't even get arrested when caught stealing them, unless Solo fixed it in prime as well. Those are woth over a gold per, and take liek 60 stealin to snag with 0 repercussion. Well except Soloman pummelling you about the head when he finds you scripting them.
He'l buy hundreds of those satchels from ya though, and you don't even get arrested when caught stealing them, unless Solo fixed it in prime as well. Those are woth over a gold per, and take liek 60 stealin to snag with 0 repercussion. Well except Soloman pummelling you about the head when he finds you scripting them.
>>He'l buy hundreds of those satchels from ya though, and you don't even get arrested when caught stealing them, unless Solo fixed it in prime as well. Those are woth over a gold per, and take liek 60 stealin to snag with 0 repercussion. Well except Soloman pummelling you about the head when he finds you scripting them.
That was an uber-bug.
That makes two giant unbalancing bugs from the temple :P
That was an uber-bug.
That makes two giant unbalancing bugs from the temple :P
