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I want to get better informed before I go off on a rant here, so bear with me.
1) Am I correct in stating that the only defense against Chill Spirit is your evasion and any defensive spells you have up? In other words, armor, shield, and everything else is ignored.
2) Chill Spirit is a 1st tier, 1st circle choosable spell, correct?
3) Chill Spirit doesn't do much damage to creatures in my testing, but I've heard it's much more effective against players. Is this correct?
4) Anyone have any comments either way on this spell? Too strong or too weak?
Kalyn
In response,
You've been pwnzed. Fear the Clerics.
-Statis
1. Evasion yeah, PFE probably as well.
2. 1st tier, yeah.
3. No. Seems about equally effective on PCs and critters. It does no physical damage, but it can stun - since PCs are more apt and weaker vs. stun due to lower stats, it may seem more effective.
4. It's no worse than the ridiculi level of MB or FS.
You've been pwnzed. Fear the Clerics.
-Statis
1. Evasion yeah, PFE probably as well.
2. 1st tier, yeah.
3. No. Seems about equally effective on PCs and critters. It does no physical damage, but it can stun - since PCs are more apt and weaker vs. stun due to lower stats, it may seem more effective.
4. It's no worse than the ridiculi level of MB or FS.
>It's no worse than the ridiculi level of MB or FS.
Fire shard can be dodged or blocked with shield, is very easily absorbed by armor, is fairly inaccurate, is heavily weakened by any barrier spell, and does physical damage. Chill Spirit can be dodged, is fairly accurate, may or may not be weakened by barrier spells, and does spiritual damage (something that has never been a problem for any player before now, so 90% of players have little to no spiritual health/defenses). Not comparable.
Kalyn
Fire shard can be dodged or blocked with shield, is very easily absorbed by armor, is fairly inaccurate, is heavily weakened by any barrier spell, and does physical damage. Chill Spirit can be dodged, is fairly accurate, may or may not be weakened by barrier spells, and does spiritual damage (something that has never been a problem for any player before now, so 90% of players have little to no spiritual health/defenses). Not comparable.
Kalyn
Just did three tests.
At 30 prep, targeted right leg the cleric got my spirit down from full to very strong.
At 30 prep, targeted chest she got me down from very strong
to shaky.
At 20 prep,targeted chest was still at shaky. But this time got the returns energery to her message.
Our stats are failr similar.
Earlier today I had someone cast it at me and my shear reflected it, stunned the caster. So I think Barrier spell deter it.
Honestly I have no idea why clerics getting so happy about this spell. Prolly cause they got a non undead tm spell. Heh. Oh and the sould stealer aspect is kinda cool.
At 30 prep, targeted right leg the cleric got my spirit down from full to very strong.
At 30 prep, targeted chest she got me down from very strong
to shaky.
At 20 prep,targeted chest was still at shaky. But this time got the returns energery to her message.
Our stats are failr similar.
Earlier today I had someone cast it at me and my shear reflected it, stunned the caster. So I think Barrier spell deter it.
Honestly I have no idea why clerics getting so happy about this spell. Prolly cause they got a non undead tm spell. Heh. Oh and the sould stealer aspect is kinda cool.
>Fire shard can be dodged or blocked with shield, is very easily absorbed by armor, is fairly inaccurate, is heavily weakened by any barrier spell, and does physical damage. Chill Spirit can be dodged, is fairly accurate, may or may not be weakened by barrier spells, and does spiritual damage (something that has never been a problem for any player before now, so 90% of players have little to no spiritual health/defenses). Not comparable.
Chill Spirit is by far the most innaccurate spell I have ever used.
Chill Spirit will also continue to be in the preview after the preview ends next week because of the new nature of the spirit attack system. There are a lot of kinks to be worked out of the system. Currently, this spell is much much much more powerful on players than creatures, because creatures are still under the old spirit calculations (I assume).
PFE does protect. PFE protects against all Holy spells.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Chill Spirit is by far the most innaccurate spell I have ever used.
Chill Spirit will also continue to be in the preview after the preview ends next week because of the new nature of the spirit attack system. There are a lot of kinks to be worked out of the system. Currently, this spell is much much much more powerful on players than creatures, because creatures are still under the old spirit calculations (I assume).
PFE does protect. PFE protects against all Holy spells.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
<<Fire shard can be dodged or blocked with shield, is very easily absorbed by armor, is fairly inaccurate, is heavily weakened by any barrier spell, and does physical damage. Chill Spirit can be dodged, is fairly accurate, may or may not be weakened by barrier spells, and does spiritual damage (something that has never been a problem for any player before now, so 90% of players have little to no spiritual health/defenses). Not comparable>>
You're absolutely correct! FS is FAR too powerful for a lil' spell like ChS to make an accurate comparison. My god, it's all so clear now...
-Statis, hit by 48 shard 7 prep
You're absolutely correct! FS is FAR too powerful for a lil' spell like ChS to make an accurate comparison. My god, it's all so clear now...
-Statis, hit by 48 shard 7 prep
>Just did three tests.
If this is the extent of the damage it does to equivalent players, that's fine. I would like to hear some more details though. What was the cleric's TM? What was your charisma (main factor in spirit health)? Mana doesn't really matter in TM spells - damage is almost entirely based on TM skill. Mana is only useful in overcoming resistance or adding features.
As for why clerics are happy about it, it teaches target very well. Very, VERY well. 3 casts on a goblin locks my cleric with 21 ranks in target. It's also the opener for the Spiritual Combat system, which has a lot of potential (for a variety of things...).
Kalyn
If this is the extent of the damage it does to equivalent players, that's fine. I would like to hear some more details though. What was the cleric's TM? What was your charisma (main factor in spirit health)? Mana doesn't really matter in TM spells - damage is almost entirely based on TM skill. Mana is only useful in overcoming resistance or adding features.
As for why clerics are happy about it, it teaches target very well. Very, VERY well. 3 casts on a goblin locks my cleric with 21 ranks in target. It's also the opener for the Spiritual Combat system, which has a lot of potential (for a variety of things...).
Kalyn
>Chill Spirit is by far the most innaccurate spell I have ever used.
Well, it's more accurate than most of the war mage 1st tier spells.
>Currently, this spell is much much much more powerful on players than creatures, because creatures are still under the old spirit calculations (I assume).
This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. I honestly have no problem with Clerics getting powerful spirit damage spells - but I do have a problem with a nearly undefendable, highly damaging 1st tier spirit spell. I hope that the calculations become balanced both for Player vs critter AND player vs player combat.
Kalyn
Well, it's more accurate than most of the war mage 1st tier spells.
>Currently, this spell is much much much more powerful on players than creatures, because creatures are still under the old spirit calculations (I assume).
This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. I honestly have no problem with Clerics getting powerful spirit damage spells - but I do have a problem with a nearly undefendable, highly damaging 1st tier spirit spell. I hope that the calculations become balanced both for Player vs critter AND player vs player combat.
Kalyn
>This is the kind of feedback I was looking for. I honestly have no problem with Clerics getting powerful spirit damage spells - but I do have a problem with a nearly undefendable, highly damaging 1st tier spirit spell. I hope that the calculations become balanced both for Player vs critter AND player vs player combat.
As the Cleric with the most TM by 50 ranks, I should be able to kill most any creature in the game at max prep.
Currently, I can't get anything that teaches me TM beyond 'beat up' in a single cast of Chill Spirit. The spirit system needs a lot of work. I hate to tell you, but I think the spell is working as intended on players, it's just the creatures that are out of whack.
Train your Charisma :P
- Master Cleric of Harawep
As the Cleric with the most TM by 50 ranks, I should be able to kill most any creature in the game at max prep.
Currently, I can't get anything that teaches me TM beyond 'beat up' in a single cast of Chill Spirit. The spirit system needs a lot of work. I hate to tell you, but I think the spell is working as intended on players, it's just the creatures that are out of whack.
Train your Charisma :P
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Joke bro, no one's gotten 48 shards on me. :)
Still, the fact that a solid WM can snap a 10 prep at me and hit me 3 times is a little unnerving. Frankly, I think FS is very, very accurate, as I've been hit and stunned by a WM with 100 TM vs. my 180 evasion.
ChS is good, but unless it stuns, you can retaliate and let your spirit heal after cleric = dead. :)
-Statis
Still, the fact that a solid WM can snap a 10 prep at me and hit me 3 times is a little unnerving. Frankly, I think FS is very, very accurate, as I've been hit and stunned by a WM with 100 TM vs. my 180 evasion.
ChS is good, but unless it stuns, you can retaliate and let your spirit heal after cleric = dead. :)
-Statis
Still, the fact that a solid WM can snap a 10 prep at me and hit me 3 times is a little unnerving. Frankly, I think FS is very, very accurate, as I've been hit and stunned by a WM with 100 TM vs. my 180 evasion.
___________________________________________________________
Hrm me and some friend have been running a large series of very complex tests on all the spells wich includes accuracy testing of the various guilds spells. So far the spells tied as least accurate (that we have tested to date) are FS and FOS. These tests so far have only been across the moon mage and war mage spells and will be including cleric soon now that they have a viable spell to use on our target (not counting AS).
As to the chill spirit I believe the concern comes from the lack of defenses to the spell. Primarily the lack of an armor influence since the spell does no phsical damage. I imagine that however a few of the guilds have a way to defend against it, Clerics have PFE, I am assuming that Aether cloak works and I imagine psychic shield does (if it still does have the spirit protection part of it intact since Magice 1.0) as well I would assume barbarian magic resistance is as effective against chill spirit as it is against most target spells. So it really only leaves the problem of ways to defend against it non magically those being only evasion. With other spells you bring in evasion shield and armor skill when it comes to reducing the damage/defending against it. That said spirit oriented attack and deffense is something that has generally been less than a focus of combat and I can think of only two spells that have attacked it, this and the previous cleric spell that sent the "grim reaperish thing" after someone. All that being said I think it might be good to just hold off on judgement on the spell till the spirit oriented combat is worked out a bit better like all new things there will likely be some tweaking.
___________________________________________________________
Hrm me and some friend have been running a large series of very complex tests on all the spells wich includes accuracy testing of the various guilds spells. So far the spells tied as least accurate (that we have tested to date) are FS and FOS. These tests so far have only been across the moon mage and war mage spells and will be including cleric soon now that they have a viable spell to use on our target (not counting AS).
As to the chill spirit I believe the concern comes from the lack of defenses to the spell. Primarily the lack of an armor influence since the spell does no phsical damage. I imagine that however a few of the guilds have a way to defend against it, Clerics have PFE, I am assuming that Aether cloak works and I imagine psychic shield does (if it still does have the spirit protection part of it intact since Magice 1.0) as well I would assume barbarian magic resistance is as effective against chill spirit as it is against most target spells. So it really only leaves the problem of ways to defend against it non magically those being only evasion. With other spells you bring in evasion shield and armor skill when it comes to reducing the damage/defending against it. That said spirit oriented attack and deffense is something that has generally been less than a focus of combat and I can think of only two spells that have attacked it, this and the previous cleric spell that sent the "grim reaperish thing" after someone. All that being said I think it might be good to just hold off on judgement on the spell till the spirit oriented combat is worked out a bit better like all new things there will likely be some tweaking.
<<As to the chill spirit I believe the concern comes from the lack of defenses to the spell. Primarily the lack of an armor influence since the spell does no phsical damage. I imagine that however a few of the guilds have a way to defend against it, Clerics have PFE, I am assuming that Aether cloak works>>
Yes, I'd think AC works. ChS is pure TM. But I'm not sure.
Let me make some other assurances:
1. One cast of ChS will NOT kill you. The worst stun I've seen on the inital cast is Lightly stunned.
2. The pause from the cast to the damage (1-2 seconds)could be deadly for the casting Cleric.
3. The only reason the spell seems so scary is because it's a new form of damage. That won't last that long as people get more charisma. The new depart times are coming, soon, their hands will be forced.
-Statis
Yes, I'd think AC works. ChS is pure TM. But I'm not sure.
Let me make some other assurances:
1. One cast of ChS will NOT kill you. The worst stun I've seen on the inital cast is Lightly stunned.
2. The pause from the cast to the damage (1-2 seconds)could be deadly for the casting Cleric.
3. The only reason the spell seems so scary is because it's a new form of damage. That won't last that long as people get more charisma. The new depart times are coming, soon, their hands will be forced.
-Statis
mmk
1. Pardon me but how does it stun? whats the messaging?
2. And can you cast again during the period of those 1-2 seconds before it hits?
2a. If you spam someone with rapid cast min preps does that maul their spirit?
3. The depart time aspect is a serious messup behind releasing this spell it opens it up to lots of abuse on both the attacker and defenders part.
1. Pardon me but how does it stun? whats the messaging?
2. And can you cast again during the period of those 1-2 seconds before it hits?
2a. If you spam someone with rapid cast min preps does that maul their spirit?
3. The depart time aspect is a serious messup behind releasing this spell it opens it up to lots of abuse on both the attacker and defenders part.
>1. Pardon me but how does it stun? whats the messaging?
Same messaging as all TM spells.
Claws of mist tear away from the amorphous cloud of fog enwreathing a zombie nomad, slashing violently at its body. It shudders inwardly, bearing no visible wounds, but seeming chilled to the bone.
A zombie nomad is barely stunned!
2. And can you cast again during the period of those 1-2 seconds before it hits?
Yes.
2a. If you spam someone with rapid cast min preps does that maul their spirit?
Yep. But how is this different than any other TM spell?
3. The depart time aspect is a serious messup behind releasing this spell it opens it up to lots of abuse on both the attacker and defenders part.
Tough? Thats what spirit damage will do.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Same messaging as all TM spells.
Claws of mist tear away from the amorphous cloud of fog enwreathing a zombie nomad, slashing violently at its body. It shudders inwardly, bearing no visible wounds, but seeming chilled to the bone.
A zombie nomad is barely stunned!
2. And can you cast again during the period of those 1-2 seconds before it hits?
Yes.
2a. If you spam someone with rapid cast min preps does that maul their spirit?
Yep. But how is this different than any other TM spell?
3. The depart time aspect is a serious messup behind releasing this spell it opens it up to lots of abuse on both the attacker and defenders part.
Tough? Thats what spirit damage will do.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
If you are worried about spirit attack spells....train charisma. Nuff said. This spell really is no different then Fire shard in its own way. Yes FS is blocked by armor and CS is not but there are benefits that FS has that CS lacks. Dont you realize that since it does spirit damage that what it does is not compounded by your sword? If you cast CS and its spirit is almost dead sliceing it up with your blade will do only PHYSICSAL damage and therefore be a waste of time. Not to mention the multiple shard effect. They are different and good in thier own way. So get off our backs and train charisma and evasion if you plan on bothering clerics. We are a magic primary guild and its about time we had our own version of DB,FS,IP etc. Your monopoly on magical combat is over.
Gam
"In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
--Douglas Adams
Gam
"In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
--Douglas Adams
Someone's just afraid that a Cleric might be able to do something with their magic. Jealous that a Cleric might be able to kill something with their magic.
Kalyn is right that there isn't much of a way to defend against the spell. But.. what type of shield would protect against a spirit attack? What type of armor? It's not physical, physical items should have no bearing on it's effectiveness. The stun should probably be taken out for this reason.
I really wish I could say that I find this spell powerful at all. It takes me multiple casts at the maximum prep in order to do much of anything with it. I don't know what everyone's so worked up about.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
Kalyn is right that there isn't much of a way to defend against the spell. But.. what type of shield would protect against a spirit attack? What type of armor? It's not physical, physical items should have no bearing on it's effectiveness. The stun should probably be taken out for this reason.
I really wish I could say that I find this spell powerful at all. It takes me multiple casts at the maximum prep in order to do much of anything with it. I don't know what everyone's so worked up about.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
>Kalyn is right that there isn't much of a way to defend against the spell. But.. what type of shield would protect against a spirit attack? What type of armor? It's not physical, physical items should have no bearing on it's effectiveness.
What type of shield or armor would affect a whip made of aether? It's immaterial.
Take a look at the messaging for CHS. It creates a *physical object* - the ghostly fog - and said *physical object* attacks the creature or player by slicing with 'claws'. Slice protection on armor should protect against it. Simply because it damages something other than skin doesn't mean a physical object can successfully pass through another physical object 100% of the time.
Kalyn
What type of shield or armor would affect a whip made of aether? It's immaterial.
Take a look at the messaging for CHS. It creates a *physical object* - the ghostly fog - and said *physical object* attacks the creature or player by slicing with 'claws'. Slice protection on armor should protect against it. Simply because it damages something other than skin doesn't mean a physical object can successfully pass through another physical object 100% of the time.
Kalyn
If it was physical, it would do physical damage.
ALA does physical damage, therefore it can be blocked by physical means.
CHS does no physical damage, therefore it cannot be blocked by physical means, only magical means.
I don't see how this is confusing or even up for debate in any way shape or form.
Would it make you happy if the spell's messaging was:
Cleric gestures at you.
Ouch! Your spirit hurts.
I'm sure that could be arranged.
If something physical is going to help, then physical damage should be done. I'd be all for adding armor protection to CHS, then I could actually kill with it by blowing out people's chests :)
If you want some silly flimsy IC argument.. I can give you one:
Fog can go through seams in your armor. Unless your armor is completely sealed (you'd be sweating like a pig, heh) then the fog could get through. It's not passing through anything physical, just flowing.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
ALA does physical damage, therefore it can be blocked by physical means.
CHS does no physical damage, therefore it cannot be blocked by physical means, only magical means.
I don't see how this is confusing or even up for debate in any way shape or form.
Would it make you happy if the spell's messaging was:
Cleric gestures at you.
Ouch! Your spirit hurts.
I'm sure that could be arranged.
If something physical is going to help, then physical damage should be done. I'd be all for adding armor protection to CHS, then I could actually kill with it by blowing out people's chests :)
If you want some silly flimsy IC argument.. I can give you one:
Fog can go through seams in your armor. Unless your armor is completely sealed (you'd be sweating like a pig, heh) then the fog could get through. It's not passing through anything physical, just flowing.
- Master Cleric of Harawep
>>CHS stuns. Stuns are a result of physical damage/attacks.
SOME stuns are the result of physical damage. Other stuns are the result of a spell whose entire purpose is stunning (e.g.: Thunderclap, Mental Blast). Still others are a byproduct of casting a spell (e.g.: Teleport, Persistance of Mana). Apparently, spiritual damage is another thing that can cause a stun. Ways to prevent/avoid stunning (e.g.: Anti-Stun, being a troll) will work with stuns from spiritual damage just as they would from physical damage.
- Shavay Silvamon, Heritage Monographs (freelance)
SOME stuns are the result of physical damage. Other stuns are the result of a spell whose entire purpose is stunning (e.g.: Thunderclap, Mental Blast). Still others are a byproduct of casting a spell (e.g.: Teleport, Persistance of Mana). Apparently, spiritual damage is another thing that can cause a stun. Ways to prevent/avoid stunning (e.g.: Anti-Stun, being a troll) will work with stuns from spiritual damage just as they would from physical damage.
- Shavay Silvamon, Heritage Monographs (freelance)
>SOME stuns are the result of physical damage. Other stuns are the result of a spell whose entire purpose is stunning (e.g.: Thunderclap, Mental Blast).
Mental Blast and Thunderclap are both physical attacks.
>Still others are a byproduct of casting a spell (e.g.: Teleport, Persistance of Mana).
Teleport and PoM are both physically straining.
There is no spell, ability, weapon, whatever in the game that produces a stun that doesn't have a physical component... other than CHS.
Kalyn
Mental Blast and Thunderclap are both physical attacks.
>Still others are a byproduct of casting a spell (e.g.: Teleport, Persistance of Mana).
Teleport and PoM are both physically straining.
There is no spell, ability, weapon, whatever in the game that produces a stun that doesn't have a physical component... other than CHS.
Kalyn
>Hopefully this will set a trend. :)
The point is that stunning has been defined by GMs as the result of a physical attack. Since CHS produces a stun, there has to be some physical element to it, and thus there has to be some way to defend against it other than not being there when the blatantly obvious cloud attacks you.
Kalyn
The point is that stunning has been defined by GMs as the result of a physical attack. Since CHS produces a stun, there has to be some physical element to it, and thus there has to be some way to defend against it other than not being there when the blatantly obvious cloud attacks you.
Kalyn
> There is no spell, ability, weapon, whatever in the game that produces a stun that doesn't have a physical component... other than CHS.
How many offensive spells, abilities, weapons, whatevers are there that don't have a physical component, stun or no stun? I suspect the number is very few. So the fact that CHS is the only one which produces a stun really isn't that impressive.
Seldaren
How many offensive spells, abilities, weapons, whatevers are there that don't have a physical component, stun or no stun? I suspect the number is very few. So the fact that CHS is the only one which produces a stun really isn't that impressive.
Seldaren
>>>>The point is that stunning has been defined by GMs as the result of a physical attack. Since CHS produces a stun, there has to be some physical element to it, and thus there has to be some way to defend against it other than not being there when the blatantly obvious cloud attacks you.<<<<<<<
Dami, Skral or Ribgy,
Can we get a redefinition of stunning please to include non-physical attacks or an explanation of why this does stun and which category does this spell fit into? SvA or what?
Thanks
Kali
Dami, Skral or Ribgy,
Can we get a redefinition of stunning please to include non-physical attacks or an explanation of why this does stun and which category does this spell fit into? SvA or what?
Thanks
Kali
