BB on 11/30/2002 04:57 PM CST
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I take back my complaint from the Rangers folder.::kicks Damissak::

But this doesn't make any sense to me.

You roll your eyes at a forest geni.
The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a massive pine tree breaks free and falls from above!
The pine tree lands a solid hit to its right eye!
Roundtime: 5 seconds

It's a massive pine tree....and it only hit the geni's right eye? Genies are pretty small too aren't they? Halfing size...now if the pine tree is gonna fall on a halfing's head and just hit its right eye....that must be a small damn massive pine tree....

Pathyn
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 05:04 PM CST
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> that must be a small damn massive pine tree....


That, or the geni was just poked in the eye by a stray branch and managed to avoid the bulk of the tree.



Dash & the gang

Curious about DragonRealms Platinum? Find out more at http://members.tripod.com/cervanntes/DragonRealms/index.htm
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 05:09 PM CST
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It is no longer possible to hit something in the eye with BB.

GM Damissak
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 05:19 PM CST
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Thanks Damissak.

Pathyn
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 05:24 PM CST
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>It is no longer possible to hit something in the eye with BB.

>GM Damissak

And legions of moms saying 'You'll shoot your eye out' are instantenously quieted.

Supreme Bunny Overlord Zairius
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 05:32 PM CST
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This spell isn't teach PM at all. Literally. I'm getting 0 PM and 0 HA from casting it. Relevant skills/stats:

Primary Magic: 38 84% clear Harness Ability: 38 94% clear

Strength : 16 Reflex : 22
Agility : 16 Charisma : 12
Discipline : 14 Wisdom : 12
Intelligence : 16 Stamina : 14

This is after 5 casts at my maximum mana (8). I realize that it's a higher-level spell and I really shouldn't be able to cast it anyway, but that just means it should definately teach me PM, doesn't it?

Kalyn, for his ranger in TF
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 06:08 PM CST
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>>This spell isn't teach PM at all. Literally. I'm getting 0 PM and 0 HA from casting it. Relevant skills/stats:<<

Yup, not teaching me a lick either. I'm at work right now so can't give my correct skills but I have roughly around 200 in PM and harness and I'm not learning a thing. Wasn't there a similar problem like this the first time it came out?

Pathyn
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 06:21 PM CST
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We'll look into the learning.

GM Damissak
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 06:31 PM CST
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Any chance of having the critters that get knocked down to stay on the ground for more than just a second? I'm not sure if its just that I suck with 199 PM and 193 harness and I can't get them to stay down but I usually throw 20/15 or 10/20 at them and they get hit hard but come right back up again. This being Genies, if I hit a leucro that hard it usually dies. Any chance of this spell causing a stun?

Pathyn
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Re: BB on 11/30/2002 07:11 PM CST
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Just realized why I can't stun genies so forget about that...

Still hoping to keep them knocked down for more than just a second.

Pathyn
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Re: BB on 12/01/2002 01:01 AM CST
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Excuse the excessive posts, but I just realized why the genies leap up the second they are knocked down. ::grin:: I'll go play with the spell somewhere else when I have the time. So far I have no real complaints.

Pathyn
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BB/Room Bug on 12/01/2002 07:58 AM CST
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dragon's spine, snowbeast lair -

The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
Nature does not respond, likely since She still must recover from the loose rocks that recently tumbled down.

No matter how long you wait, bb won't go. Had another ranger try this in here as well, seems you're not able to cast this in the 3 rooms there.

want this bugged in-game as well?

~Tanshar
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Re: BB/Room Bug on 12/01/2002 08:20 AM CST
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>> want this bugged in-game as well?

Yes, that would be the correct place to BUG it if you think there is an environment issue.

>> * It is entirely possible that some areas in the game have poorly set (or flat out incorrect) environments. This is a similar problem to the "distance" issues that Moon Mages see; in general, this means that if the room description claims the area is heavily wooded and you only are able to drop rocks (or worse, nothing at all), that should be a BUG issued "attention ROOM OWNER."

GM Damissak
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BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 12:19 PM CST
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>In testing, I actually find this to be a very nice spell when used to supplement regular combat. While PLS may need some more work, I feel that BB in its current state is very well suited for the hunting Ranger.


Hmm, I agree with you Rig, ok, everyone can faint, I like this spell with no complaints.

I also agree that PLS needs a little work, however it is not a horrible spell, just a very limited one. Does not mean I (we?) don't like it or appreciate the work put into it.

Well, back to BB, I do have some tiny itty bitty complaints, not really complaints just perhaps questions?

How can a huge Pine tree fall on a leuc, smash it's neck (telling me that was a good darn hit) and hmm not kill it? Huge Pine tree falls on me and if ANY part smashes my neck I'm dead, yup..dead.

And oh!..How come that grass effect was taken out? And the earth shaken? I don't want to get into any GvG but I am sure it has something to do with it.

Well done so far to all of our spells. I don't want any of you to think it is not appreciated, sometimes we expect more, and get vocal when we get even less then we had before. But all in all, great job. Especially with HB.

Now..can we pllllllease have a official GM spell list so we know how to pick them when the global release is over?!? Thank you. ;-)

Be well,

Motarra
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 12:32 PM CST
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>>And oh!..How come that grass effect was taken out? And the earth shaken? I don't want to get into any GvG but I am sure it has something to do with it.

I'm thinking it's something along the line of how Life magic in general works.
Life mana isn't exactly generated by living things, so much as it is by the natural process of life, death, decay, entropy, etc... Branch Break (kinda a silly name, by the way... too bad that didn't change with it) is like an extension of Compost. Compost speeds the decay of living matter... Branch Break finds the little flaws in a tree/rock that'll eventually make it come down and speeds up the process. Making grass wave around or the earth shake doesn't really fit in with that, at least as far as I can see.

Now I'm pretty sure that a kind of 'plants-grabbing-your-opponent-webbing-effect' would be part of the proposed Awaken Forest spell. I've always imagined that one as a sort of tree gang-beating: two trees pin your arms back, holding you still, while another tree stomps the spoon out of you. Okay, maybe not that campy, but you get the idea.

- Shavay Silvamon, Heritage Monographs (freelance)
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 01:19 PM CST
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>> How come that grass effect was taken out? And the earth shaken?

They were removed because the single spell matrix was doing too many different things.

>> I don't want to get into any GvG but I am sure it has something to do with it.

It absolutely didn't.

>> can we pllllllease have a official GM spell list so we know how to pick them when the global release is over?!?

Several folks have mentioned the spell books. They are an excellent source of information. Even if you weren't able to or didn't get one yourself, feel free to ask your fellow guild members who do have access to one (I'ld bet you know at least one... or someone else who knows someone).

GM Damissak
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 02:16 PM CST
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>>How can a huge Pine tree fall on a leuc, smash it's neck (telling me that was a good darn hit) and hmm not kill it? Huge Pine tree falls on me and if ANY part smashes my neck I'm dead, yup..dead.<<

What are the chances of making the pine tree harder to get and when you actually pull it off it causes huge amounts of damage or straight out kills em? I rather get it once every 50 casts and have it kill the critter totally then see it drop on a critter and cause "strong" damage to the abdomen.

Pathyn
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BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 02:36 PM CST
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Though it's nice to finnally see it back I'm not convenced it's working quite right. For one, it's underpowerd in that I get much better hit's with lesser weapons. It kinda reminds me of sissy claws. Two, it's way to unpredictable. I can snap a tree in half with anywhere from 15-28 mana in the spell and this makes us unable to used the spell again for a while. Three, what the heck were you thinking when you made it possible to snap whole trees in half anyways? We are ranger's for the gods sakes, we are here to preserve the balance of nature not to strip the realms clean of folage.


Thanks,
Dread
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 05:51 PM CST
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>>> I don't want to get into any GvG but I am sure it has something to do with it.

>It absolutely didn't.


Dang! I thought I edited that out! I apologise, I meant to edit that part out. ::BLUSH:: I understand now, after speaking with someone else why it was..


>Several folks have mentioned the spell books. They are an excellent source of information. Even if you weren't able to or didn't get one yourself, feel free to ask your fellow guild members who do have access to one (I'ld bet you know at least one... or someone else who knows someone).

>GM Damissak

Yes, Damissak, I understand that the spell books have our spells in them. But, if I'm not mistaken, they do not have the pre-regs for the spells in them. This is why alot of us have been asking for an updated list, or atleast updated web page for spells. We have new paths to take in our magic, with only a clue and a guess of how to pick and choose our extremely limited spell slots. There are some out there who have posted what they think is the pre-regs, but I am a skeptic, and I only believe what I see a GM post. Besides, you try catching one of these Rangers with a spell book!! Just kidding..heh.
They are not available to all anymore, they are really a moot point till the shop is opened back up..:;waits for the shop to open:: Thanks Damissak..

Be well,

Motarra, who now wants a spell book, simply because she can't have one! ;-)


Would be nice if say a GM would post it in a way that seems like Peglar or whatever his name is 'visited' the boards, making it nice and IC..Just my rambling thoughts.
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 07:17 PM CST
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I agree that BB is a good hunting Ranger spell. Seems to do a decent amount of damage, even at my meager ranks.

I can understand why the grass tangling and ground shaking were removed. I don't like it, but I can live with it.

I miss the chance of the limb missing your target and hitting you, or bouncing off and hitting you.

I really miss getting multiple kinds of limbs, and being able to use at least some of them as staves or blunts.

I also find it odd that the large limbs that are dropped now give weapon appraisals, yet aren't useable. Why is that?


Qreyq

Come to the Pack House!
http://www.rakashpack.8m.com


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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 07:59 PM CST
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>prep bb 10
>But he's still kicking! Way underpowered. That's with 250+ magic.

Dread, prepping BB 10 doesn't seem to be very much mana. Try prepping a little higher or harness an additional 5 or 10, then cast.

Shillen, a cuddly cub Ranger
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 09:19 PM CST
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I've had quite a bit of luck with BB myself and my magic isn't all that great for my circle, mid 200's. Prepping at 20 I was consistantly killing Leuc and Geni with no problems at all.

In the 20 times or so I cast at geni I managed to kill them with 1 hit 19 times. Maybe is more to it than just PM ranks? Don't I remember seeing Rigby post somewhere that with spells like this the only thing more PM did was allow ya to put more mana into it?

Tazsin
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 09:19 PM CST
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<<Several folks have mentioned the spell books. They are an excellent source of information. Even if you weren't able to or didn't get one yourself, feel free to ask your fellow guild members who do have access to one (I'ld bet you know at least one... or someone else who knows someone).--GM Damissak>>

Personally, I LOVE my spellbook! But it's the prerequisites I'm really looking for, myself. That, and the fact that when the spell preview is over, won't our spellbooks be...well...blank until we choose spells, and then only contain the spells we actually know?

So an updated actual spell list soon would be great, if possible!

~~WW
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/01/2002 09:30 PM CST
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>>Personally, I LOVE my spellbook! But it's the prerequisites I'm really looking for, myself. That, and the fact that when the spell preview is over, won't our spellbooks be...well...blank until we choose spells, and then only contain the spells we actually know?

While spellbooks don't mention prerequisites, the Guildleaders do when you ask them about the spells now. And no, custom spellbooks always have every spell available to your Guild. Enjoy!

- Shavay Silvamon, Heritage Monographs (freelance)
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 11:03 PM CST
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>>In the 20 times or so I cast at geni I managed to kill them with 1 hit 19 times. Maybe is more to it than just PM ranks? Don't I remember seeing Rigby post somewhere that with spells like this the only thing more PM did was allow ya to put more mana into it?<<

PP = Mana Seeing
Harn = Mana Grabbing
PM = Mana Stuffing

Skill allows you to use greater energy, for greater effect. A minimum prep gives minimum results, regardless of skill.

Larcus' Player
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 11:23 PM CST
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<Skill allows you to use greater energy, for greater effect. A minimum prep gives minimum results, regardless of skill.

Larcus' Player >

That wasn't quite was I was getting at. Stats also play a big part in things.

Tazsin
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/01/2002 11:55 PM CST
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<<That wasn't quite was I was getting at. Stats also play a big part in things.>>

Less circles = less stats. Once again, slow circling comes back to haunt the ranger. I really don't agree with the emphasis magic 2.1 puts on stats because of this. It doesn't only play a large part in getting spells to hit, but also defending against spells. I prefer the old, skill focused stuff.

I also dislike that PM no longer factors directly into spell power. Used to be, as your PM went up, you could achieve the same affects out of a spell with less mana... more bang for your buck. No longer though I guess.

That said, BB preforms well for me against arzumos (far under me) and well against moradu. And, I can kill a poloh'izh with one good cast if I hit a critical body part.

You waggle your fingers at a green poloh'izh.
The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a massive tree breaks free and falls from above!
The tree lands an awesome strike to its head!
Roundtime: 4 seconds
The green poloh'izh falls to the ground and lies still.
>look at poloh

You see a green poloh'izh (dead).
The green poloh'izh has a grotesquely bloated head with bleeding from the eyes and ears compounded by a pulpy stump for a head.
It is wearing nothing!
It is carrying nothing!

My one reservation, waggling fingers. Please change messaging? ugh

If the spell doesn't change, I might just get it. Is much better than PLS.

Dritz
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 01:21 AM CST
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>You waggle your fingers at a green poloh'izh.
>My one reservation, waggling fingers. Please change messaging? ugh

LOL Dritz! That's hilarious! I never figured you for a finger-waggler...but now that I see you doing it, I think you should wanna keep it! (I'd want to keep that messaging for myself just because it's so damn funny!)

I think BB is a great spell because it knocks things down so easily, even if you don't hurt the critter. I have similar discipline and intel compared to Dritz, but a lot less charisma and PM skill. The following was cast with 20 mana. (My casting message is boring).

You meditate calmly for a moment before looking at an azure poloh'izh.
The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a large limb breaks free and falls from above!
The limb lands a good strike to its chest!
It is knocked flat!
Roundtime: 3 seconds

Shillen, a cuddly cub Ranger
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 03:58 AM CST
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>> sure it's a great spell if you do a lot of underhunting and are able to take the time to just play around with the critters. It's pointless if it's nothing more then a neat looking spell.

>> You meditate calmly for a moment before looking at an azure poloh'izh.
The limb lands a good strike to its chest!
It is knocked flat!

>> I can kill a poloh'izh with one good cast if I hit a critical body part.

I think the two posts proceeding yours show it to have the potential for much more than 'a neat looking spell' (including situations where you are not underhunting).

GM Damissak
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 04:44 AM CST
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<<Damissak - I think the two posts proceeding yours show it to have the potential for much more than 'a neat looking spell' (including situations where you are not underhunting).>>

Ok, but take this into account, Damissak, in the post announcing the spell's rerelease, Rigby said (if i am not mistaken) more or less that the spell was too power in its original incarnation for being such a low tier spell, which, that's fine, however, you point at the potential of the spell being much more than a neat looking spell, and point to two players who are in like the upper 5% of the guild. I have however played with the spell some more, and have gotten better hits, but still it's far from where it ever was before. Is it possible to target where the tree drops, without it being a targeted spell?

Storrmm
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 08:42 AM CST
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>>the spell was too power in its original incarnation for being such a low tier spell

I beleive Rigby meant that in a sense where 'too powerful' = did too many things.

Remember? Grasslands would snare, trees would fall, rocks would fall, sand would suck people in, etc etc etc.
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 09:48 AM CST
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>> You meditate calmly for a moment before looking at an azure poloh'izh.
The limb lands a good strike to its chest!
It is knocked flat!

>> I can kill a poloh'izh with one good cast if I hit a critical body part.

I think the two posts proceeding yours show it to have the potential for much more than 'a neat looking spell' (including situations where you are not underhunting).

GM Damissak


Hmm...
The limb lands a good strike to its chest! Well I can do that with my 15th weapon under the right conditions. A good hit is nothing a first circle novice couldn't luck out and get on a goblin. Why don't you look into, I've been sitting here testing it for the last 4 hous and I'm far from impressed. Potential?..sure if you underhunting. And Storm has a very good point about. I'm sure geni are way under Taz's hunting range as leucro are to mine and yes the spell is effective on them. Getting one hit kills and such but I do that with my blades all the time as it should be with something well under your ablility.

Thanks,
Dread
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Some BB results on 12/02/2002 10:57 AM CST
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121 PM. All done on a fresh viper, solidly balanced.

I think vipers would be right around my level. My impression is that the spell is pretty weak at lower mana. 15 and I'm barely landing any damaging hits. 20 at strong may be ok, I'm not sure.


20 mana

You hold your breath a moment -- your attention fixed on a giant thicket viper.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a massive pine tree breaks free and falls from above!
The pine tree lands a strong hit to its belly!
Roundtime: 4 seconds


15 mana

You hold your breath a moment -- your attention fixed on a giant thicket viper.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a large cedar limb breaks free and falls from above!
The cedar limb lands a light hit to its head!
Roundtime: 3 seconds

You hold your breath a moment -- your attention fixed on a giant thicket viper.
Small globes of blue and orange light appear and dart upward like fireflies.
With a loud CRACK a long pine limb breaks free and falls from above!
The pine limb lands a glancing strike to its head!
Roundtime: 3 seconds
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Re: BB a bit underpowered on 12/02/2002 12:03 PM CST
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<<Why don't you look into, I've been sitting here testing it for the last 4 hous and I'm far from impressed.>>

I'm surprisingly pleased with it. Despite it's limitations (terrain, waiting period) I think it is a useful spell at higher level. Maybe it needs a boost at lower levels, or maybe it's just a spell you need to grow into.

Anyway, I think it's a pretty powerful spell from what I've seen. I'll hold judgements on future combat spells until I've tried them from now on, I was just turned off by PLS at the time.

Dritz
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/02/2002 01:41 PM CST
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<<And no, custom spellbooks always have every spell available to your Guild. Enjoy!--Shavay>>

Well, the spellbooks do have every guild spell now, Shavay, but...will they after the magic preview too, ya sure?? I seem to remember reading somewhere on the boards (from a GM) that they will later only list the spells you perma-learn.

~~WW <who still would like to see the spellbooks list the prerequirements, too...just so she doesn't have to talk to the guild leader every time she wants to plan out a spellpath <ducks>

"Did you see them?? Which way did they go?? I must find them. I am their leader..."
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Re: Some BB results on 12/02/2002 02:02 PM CST
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Anyone yet tested the results of BB after first sending the critter off balance with HB?

Kind of the jab uppercut combo.

Arrys
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/02/2002 02:06 PM CST
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>Well, the spellbooks do have every guild spell now, Shavay, but...will they after the magic preview too, ya sure?? I seem to remember reading somewhere on the boards (from a GM) that they will later only list the spells you perma-learn.

You never saw that. Spellbooks will always have all the spells available to your guild. Check the backlog in the Spellbooks folder for proof; look for posts by Skralthaen.

Kalyn
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Re: BBand Rigby on 12/02/2002 02:35 PM CST
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<<You never saw that. Spellbooks will always have all the spells available to your guild. Check the backlog in the Spellbooks folder for proof; look for posts by Skralthaen.--Kalyn>>

Heh, I believe you guys, just honestly remember reading something about that. <ponders>

Anyway, I didn't relish wading through 3 bizillion postings to find that out about the spellbooks. I appreciate the clarification. :)

~~WW

"Did you see them?? Which way did they go?? I must find them. I am their leader..."
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Re: Some BB results on 12/02/2002 02:50 PM CST
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I had posted earlier showing the results of a HB/BB combo, but it got pulled. It was one of the main reasons I feel this spell is to underpowered.

Thanks,
Dread
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Tree's produced by BB on 12/02/2002 04:40 PM CST
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You gesture.
A massive tree rapidly decays, releasing a small amount of Life mana.

Any chance we could get massive trees to release a massive amount of life mana? Or at least a significant amount? Also, if the mana release on BB branches and trees is increased, could the auto-decay rate also be increased?

On the same thread, could the mana release generated by compost be increased? Closer to that of raise power perhaps?

Dritz
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