Ok I really am liking the new version of tks. Really glad we got an area effect offense spell since in the past it was always said no to. Just some questions on it.
What is the time dependant on? I keep casting it at 20 and get really off times on it. Is it based on how many critters are in the room? Cause it usually ends after taking down the last one in the room, but sometimes lingers and pummels only me since im the only thing in there. Is that the bad side effect mentioned or is the time off on some cases.
Its a bit hard to test the protection spells with it. SOD is still a bit wonky in that it only protects against one spell and drains you of all your harness when it does. At 20prep some items can get through my max shear. Now they dont do a ton of vit damage like if I hadnt had the shear up but can still get solid, good and extreme hits from Ive seen.
Also the power might be a bit too low, On things below my level it wipes them out no problem. But at or a bit above the items just seem to be deflected or dodged. While I can hit those with TM. Is this because it is no longer a TM spell and thus easy to avoid by the critters?
When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 04:01 AM CST
After some mixed results in Adan'f (mostly those which indicated the spell had potential but was designed for extreamly powerful mages although I'd never hit myself) I decided to try something that instead of being on the edge of my skill was somewhat below my skill (that and I'd finally gotten to the point I felt bad about how much I was neglecting my physicals) so here we go. 30 mana, full prep, two shard uber rockies (One was wounded a touch otherwise they were in their natural condition) This is what followed:
For whatever it might do... no magic predictions for a long time (Just on everything else heh)
Primary Magic: 309 34% thoughtful Harness Ability: 276 30% thoughtful
Targeted Magic: 204 15% learning
Strength : 20 Reflex : 25
Agility : 23 Charisma : 28
Discipline : 50 Wisdom : 34
Intelligence : 30 Stamina : 20
>cast
You gesture.
You sense a sudden buildup of telekinetic energy in the immediate area.
>per self
You sense the Seer's Sense spell upon you, which should last for about twelve roisaen.
You sense eleven slivers from Xibar suitable for use in Telekinetic Throw orbiting your head.
Roundtime: 4 seconds
>l
[Shard, Shoreline]
Footprints -- both humanoid and animal -- pad side-by-side along the sand, their presence gradually eroded away by the water. The profound lesson of the water on the sand is a centuries-old one. The shoreline, while giving the appearance of eternally being the same, is in fact eternally changing. You also see a rock troll, a rock troll, a cleaned troll skin with a few fleas on it, a star-shaped sugar cookie, and a medium shield.
Obvious paths: east, northwest.
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a hard hit to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver lands an extremely heavy hit to its chest!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A rock troll searches the area.
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a very heavy hit to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a devastating hit to its abdomen!
A rock troll collapses with a heavy thud.
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a hard hit to its chest!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward you!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off your chain shirt, softening the impact.
The blue-white sliver lands an extremely heavy hit to your abdomen!
You are severely stunned!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
* Moving well, a rock troll claws at you. You knock aside the claw with a scimitar.
[You're very beat up, very badly balanced with opponent dominating.]
>
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver impacts harmlessly with its medium shield.
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>heal
Your body feels very beat up.
Your spirit feels full of life.
You have some tiny scratches to the right arm, some minor abrasions to the left leg, severely swollen and bruised abdomen compounded by gaping holes in the abdomen.
Bleeding
Area Rate
abdomen very bad
inside abdomen light
>
* Moving strongly, a rock troll claws at you. You knock aside the claw with a scimitar.
[You're very beat up, very badly balanced with opponent overwhelming you.]
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
You sense the final vestiges of your Telekinetic Storm spell fade from the area.
As you can see... one troll wounded (no blood) one wounded troll killed, and me... nearly killed. On one hand the shields they carry didn't seem to do anything... but neither did mine. Overall it was rather... unimpressive seeing as this was on the very cusp of my casting ability (32 mana backfired).
-Mozzik
For whatever it might do... no magic predictions for a long time (Just on everything else heh)
Primary Magic: 309 34% thoughtful Harness Ability: 276 30% thoughtful
Targeted Magic: 204 15% learning
Strength : 20 Reflex : 25
Agility : 23 Charisma : 28
Discipline : 50 Wisdom : 34
Intelligence : 30 Stamina : 20
>cast
You gesture.
You sense a sudden buildup of telekinetic energy in the immediate area.
>per self
You sense the Seer's Sense spell upon you, which should last for about twelve roisaen.
You sense eleven slivers from Xibar suitable for use in Telekinetic Throw orbiting your head.
Roundtime: 4 seconds
>l
[Shard, Shoreline]
Footprints -- both humanoid and animal -- pad side-by-side along the sand, their presence gradually eroded away by the water. The profound lesson of the water on the sand is a centuries-old one. The shoreline, while giving the appearance of eternally being the same, is in fact eternally changing. You also see a rock troll, a rock troll, a cleaned troll skin with a few fleas on it, a star-shaped sugar cookie, and a medium shield.
Obvious paths: east, northwest.
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a hard hit to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver lands an extremely heavy hit to its chest!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A rock troll searches the area.
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a very heavy hit to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a devastating hit to its abdomen!
A rock troll collapses with a heavy thud.
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a hard hit to its chest!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward you!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off your chain shirt, softening the impact.
The blue-white sliver lands an extremely heavy hit to your abdomen!
You are severely stunned!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
* Moving well, a rock troll claws at you. You knock aside the claw with a scimitar.
[You're very beat up, very badly balanced with opponent dominating.]
>
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver impacts harmlessly with its medium shield.
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>heal
Your body feels very beat up.
Your spirit feels full of life.
You have some tiny scratches to the right arm, some minor abrasions to the left leg, severely swollen and bruised abdomen compounded by gaping holes in the abdomen.
Bleeding
Area Rate
abdomen very bad
inside abdomen light
>
* Moving strongly, a rock troll claws at you. You knock aside the claw with a scimitar.
[You're very beat up, very badly balanced with opponent overwhelming you.]
A wee blue-white sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a rock troll!
The blue-white sliver is partially blocked as it glances off its cuirbouilli coat.
The blue-white sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The blue-white sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
You sense the final vestiges of your Telekinetic Storm spell fade from the area.
As you can see... one troll wounded (no blood) one wounded troll killed, and me... nearly killed. On one hand the shields they carry didn't seem to do anything... but neither did mine. Overall it was rather... unimpressive seeing as this was on the very cusp of my casting ability (32 mana backfired).
-Mozzik
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 05:25 AM CST
30 mana TKS against one peccary...
You gesture.
The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
You are unable to keep some of the mana from leaking out of the spell pattern.
You sense a sudden buildup of telekinetic energy in the immediate area.
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its head!
The small peccary is lightly stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good hit to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its head!
The small peccary is stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The small peccary is lightly stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its head!
The small peccary is severely stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward you!
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly!
The pattern of your spell holds, but is considerably weakened.
Your absorbs the impact of the ebony sliver.
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its chest!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
You sense the final vestiges of your Telekinetic Storm spell fade from the area.
>
>look
[Gwenalion Fens]
Dismal and dreary, gnarled oak trees sway in the dense woods which run along the edge of the field, twisted limbs stretching down toward the ground. A narrow deer trail winds through the trees before vanishing into the depths of the forest. Rolling ridges of wildflowers and bog rosemary stretch out to the southeast, interspersed with sullen hollows filled with brackish water. The surface of Lake Gwenalion glimmers in the distance. You also see a small peccary.
Obvious paths: southeast.
>app pec
**You are certain that the small peccary is in very bad shape. <
:(
The small peccary has a serious wound.
You are confident that it is about as agile as you are.
You are confident that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are confident that it is about as strong as you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon, you are confident that the small peccary is a mythical being of immense power and ability.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with no weapon, you are certain that the small peccary is well above your abilities.
[Roundtime: 5 seconds]
On a side note, can someone explain to me why Shear protects against TKS? I'm not complaining, I just don't understand it. A list of what all Shear protects from would be awesome.
Eldrad
You gesture.
The mana you were holding contributes to the spell.
You are unable to keep some of the mana from leaking out of the spell pattern.
You sense a sudden buildup of telekinetic energy in the immediate area.
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its head!
The small peccary is lightly stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good hit to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its head!
The small peccary is stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its abdomen!
The small peccary is lightly stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a good strike to its head!
The small peccary is severely stunned!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward you!
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly!
The pattern of your spell holds, but is considerably weakened.
Your absorbs the impact of the ebony sliver.
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
>
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward a small peccary!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its chest!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
You sense the final vestiges of your Telekinetic Storm spell fade from the area.
>
>look
[Gwenalion Fens]
Dismal and dreary, gnarled oak trees sway in the dense woods which run along the edge of the field, twisted limbs stretching down toward the ground. A narrow deer trail winds through the trees before vanishing into the depths of the forest. Rolling ridges of wildflowers and bog rosemary stretch out to the southeast, interspersed with sullen hollows filled with brackish water. The surface of Lake Gwenalion glimmers in the distance. You also see a small peccary.
Obvious paths: southeast.
>app pec
**You are certain that the small peccary is in very bad shape. <
:(
The small peccary has a serious wound.
You are confident that it is about as agile as you are.
You are confident that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are confident that it is about as strong as you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon, you are confident that the small peccary is a mythical being of immense power and ability.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with no weapon, you are certain that the small peccary is well above your abilities.
[Roundtime: 5 seconds]
On a side note, can someone explain to me why Shear protects against TKS? I'm not complaining, I just don't understand it. A list of what all Shear protects from would be awesome.
Eldrad
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 12:25 PM CST
<<On a side note, can someone explain to me why Shear protects against TKS? I'm not complaining, I just don't understand it. A list of what all Shear protects from would be awesome.>>
Heh, everything?
Each individual drop of FR? Etc? <g>
On a side note, about TKS...
It almost seems like its not taking into account creature balance/stunned when attacking. We all know when a creature is stunned, you can snap off virtually anything and blow its head off, yet TKS (from Mozzik's and Eldrad's logs..plus others) shows that its not even hitting any harder while the creature is stunned.
Perhaps theres a problem somewhere in there.
Irrad
Heh, everything?
Each individual drop of FR? Etc? <g>
On a side note, about TKS...
It almost seems like its not taking into account creature balance/stunned when attacking. We all know when a creature is stunned, you can snap off virtually anything and blow its head off, yet TKS (from Mozzik's and Eldrad's logs..plus others) shows that its not even hitting any harder while the creature is stunned.
Perhaps theres a problem somewhere in there.
Irrad
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 01:31 PM CST
Hey Eldrad? Noticed this in your log:
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward you!
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly!
The pattern of your spell holds, but is considerably weakened.
***Your absorbs the impact of the ebony sliver.*****
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Your what? absorbed the impact?
-Mozzik
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and zips toward you!
The shimmering globe of blue fire surrounding you flares brightly!
The pattern of your spell holds, but is considerably weakened.
***Your absorbs the impact of the ebony sliver.*****
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Your what? absorbed the impact?
-Mozzik
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 02:00 PM CST
its a bug with tks happens alot
and shear protects against everything, every spell you can possibly imagine is protected by shear, ohh except shadow web and darkness for some reason but I'm not getting into that
being that tks is an area affect spell it will not stun the caster or completel negate the magic, it will however weaken it to a point where its umm useless so to speak <g>
P.S. It'd be more fun if it actually launched several slivers at a time maybe 2-3 with enough mana
and shear protects against everything, every spell you can possibly imagine is protected by shear, ohh except shadow web and darkness for some reason but I'm not getting into that
being that tks is an area affect spell it will not stun the caster or completel negate the magic, it will however weaken it to a point where its umm useless so to speak <g>
P.S. It'd be more fun if it actually launched several slivers at a time maybe 2-3 with enough mana
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/04/2002 02:06 PM CST
TKS and Sliver bug on 12/04/2002 02:11 PM CST
Re: TKS and Sliver bug on 12/04/2002 03:13 PM CST
TKS experiments on 12/06/2002 01:24 PM CST
Was messing with this spell in pecces.
I cast against a pecc in the room and then hid. The pecc was eventually killed then it pulled me out of hiding and trashed me with the a couple of items on the floor.
I have to say I would be very unlikely to waste a spell slot on such a fruity spell.
My 2 kronars worth.
Zafod
I cast against a pecc in the room and then hid. The pecc was eventually killed then it pulled me out of hiding and trashed me with the a couple of items on the floor.
I have to say I would be very unlikely to waste a spell slot on such a fruity spell.
My 2 kronars worth.
Zafod
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/07/2002 12:12 AM CST
Re: When TKS attacks... on 12/07/2002 10:45 PM CST
heh tell me about it!
This is what happen when i come across a room full of marauders, wanted to try tks to kill them all for boxes. Prep at 28, next thing I know is this:
A hunting sword jumps into the air and hurtles toward you!
Your great helm is slightly damaged.
The hunting sword lands a very heavy hit to your right eye!
You are dealt a vicious stun!
A gypsy marauder flashes a dangerous smile.
S>
* Daminious was just struck down!
DEAD>
A gypsy marauder closes to pole weapon range on you!
A gypsy marauder closes to pole weapon range on you!
A cracked oaken caddy jumps into the air and zips toward you!
Your great helm is slightly damaged.
The oaken caddy lands an awesome strike to your neck!
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your spirit and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
Heh, don't you just love tks?
- Damin.V.
This is what happen when i come across a room full of marauders, wanted to try tks to kill them all for boxes. Prep at 28, next thing I know is this:
A hunting sword jumps into the air and hurtles toward you!
Your great helm is slightly damaged.
The hunting sword lands a very heavy hit to your right eye!
You are dealt a vicious stun!
A gypsy marauder flashes a dangerous smile.
S>
* Daminious was just struck down!
DEAD>
A gypsy marauder closes to pole weapon range on you!
A gypsy marauder closes to pole weapon range on you!
A cracked oaken caddy jumps into the air and zips toward you!
Your great helm is slightly damaged.
The oaken caddy lands an awesome strike to your neck!
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your spirit and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
Heh, don't you just love tks?
- Damin.V.
TKS and its supposidly higher damage potential on 12/08/2002 10:49 PM CST
TKS is supposed to have a higher damage potention but 35 mana tks hit an ogre with 5 good-hard strikes
1 15 mana tkt hit it with one obliterating strike that wiped it out....
umm its higher damage potential? not really
higher risk? definately...
takes more mana is 1/4th as accurate and doesn't do nearly enough damage
and just to let ya know ogres are way below my level
1 15 mana tkt hit it with one obliterating strike that wiped it out....
umm its higher damage potential? not really
higher risk? definately...
takes more mana is 1/4th as accurate and doesn't do nearly enough damage
and just to let ya know ogres are way below my level
Re: TKS and its supposidly higher damage potential on 12/09/2002 05:18 AM CST
Re: TKS and its supposidly higher damage potential on 12/09/2002 09:00 AM CST
I'd rather see more pulses with longer duration then less :p
it wouldn't be more helpful it'd just stay around longer to kill or hurt you even more the creature would be long dead before
plus tks preps fast so long as you have the mana its not a strain to keep a tks going in the room pulsing quickly
more pulses=more damage/per second
it wouldn't be more helpful it'd just stay around longer to kill or hurt you even more the creature would be long dead before
plus tks preps fast so long as you have the mana its not a strain to keep a tks going in the room pulsing quickly
more pulses=more damage/per second
Suggestion to make TKS more storm like on 12/09/2002 10:15 PM CST
tks is supposed to be a raging storm of telekentic energy, but you'd think a storm would be able to actually move more then 1 item at a time
I have two suggestions
1) useless fluff message that randomly picks out a person or critter between attack pulses and causes them to shudder as if being pulled by an invisible force
2) have it that with higher skill and mana it causes more then one item to lift off the ground and attack, the storm rages through the entire room you'd think when it blows it takes more then one thing with it...downside to this ofcourse is that it also makes it more dangerous to the caster...each item randomly pick a creature or player, sometimes affecting the same creature twice, and there must be more then one item on the ground. For example you have a peccary, a fendryad, a blue bolt and a black bolt lying on the ground. The spell pulses the blue bolt will fly and smack the peccary the black bolt will fly and smack the fendryad
okay I'm done
I have two suggestions
1) useless fluff message that randomly picks out a person or critter between attack pulses and causes them to shudder as if being pulled by an invisible force
2) have it that with higher skill and mana it causes more then one item to lift off the ground and attack, the storm rages through the entire room you'd think when it blows it takes more then one thing with it...downside to this ofcourse is that it also makes it more dangerous to the caster...each item randomly pick a creature or player, sometimes affecting the same creature twice, and there must be more then one item on the ground. For example you have a peccary, a fendryad, a blue bolt and a black bolt lying on the ground. The spell pulses the blue bolt will fly and smack the peccary the black bolt will fly and smack the fendryad
okay I'm done
TKS SvA or SvS on 12/13/2002 01:21 AM CST
Re: TKS SvA or SvS on 12/13/2002 07:11 AM CST
Re: TKS SvA or SvS on 12/13/2002 11:59 PM CST
Re: TKS SvA or SvS on 12/14/2002 02:13 AM CST
Re: TKS SvA or SvS on 12/14/2002 06:30 AM CST