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ReplyI'm sure this suggestion has been made before, but it would be nice to see some horse merchants and/or alterers.
Yes, I know altering a horse sounds funny, but I mean something along the lines of making a horse somewhat distinct. Or...
Perhaps a "mount auction" where A merchant auctions off like 10 "special" types of mounts...<grin> like a war mammoth or a yeehar or something like that.
--Syreh, the Gorbesh Girl--
A copy of this will be posted in the Paladins and Warhorses boards. If you get bored, just look for the summaries.
First, suggestions for horses across the board. As it stands, a paladin's warhorse has more penalties than a normal horse, all of which make little, if any, sense. Only a paladin's warhorse may spook and flee the area or grow nervous in melee. Warhorses snort and tremble in combat while horses stand their calmly. If unmounted, a warhorse will suddenly bolt and flee the area for no apparant reason and somehow manages to lose everything in the process while a horse does not. If a paladin dies, his warhorse bolts while a horse can watch its rider get trampled by mammoths and just wait calmly for him to return. If anything, the opposite should be true.
I raise foals every spring during the birthing season. If you tickle a healthy foal's haunches that foal will buck, kick, and run off. This is an instictive response due to the fact that, in nature, horses are prey animals. Training for war breaks a horse from an early age of this habit. When threatened, a normal horse tries to flee. When threatened, a warhorse is supposed to attack. A warhorse should be harder to spook, not easier.
Also, how does a warhorse miraculously lose all its barding in a dead run? How can barding and tack with so many buckles and straps fall off because the horse ran? Do horse not gallop from battle to battle? Barding and tack is designed for the most strenuous activities imaginable. It takes more than a little brush to take off close-fitting armor or else every hunter in this game would be running in the buff.
One penalty that applies to all guilds is the magic penalty. Why does it exist? Riding a horse should be a boon, not a burden. I can cast Divine Armor at 24 mana with ease yet while mounted it hopelessly backfired. I had to cast Smite Foe at minimum prep for it to work. Being mounted can not interfere with gestures that much or how do you explain people casting spells while facing eight different opponents? And a horse's magic resistance should apply to spells cast at the horse or on the room, not the spell being prepared above it. Any horse that is trained to tolerate magic should not hinder spellcasting.
DR already suffers from the "bigger is better" complex, why make it worse? There is no reason to own a smaller horse. How does a gnome even reach the stirrups on a 16hh hand horse? In reality, an 16hh thoroughbred would buckle under the weight of barding while a 12hh warpony would do just fine. It should be a matter of build, not height. If someone is too short for their mount it should be incredibly easy to knock them off. Just a light shove and they fall out of the stirrups and roll over the horse too wide for them to grip. Light build horses should be more agile, such as better at jumping and evading, while strong horses should be able to bear plate barding and hit harder. 18hh horses were for ripping out tree trunks, not war.
I am not sure if this is in place or not but this is a general suggestion for mounted combat. Mounted opponents should have a bonus to damage and accuracy due to height advantage. They should also be hitting the upper body (head, neck, chest, arms, and hands) against unmounted opponents due to elevation. How is your four foot longsword supposed to reach down to someone's thigh if you are seated five feet higher than them? In contrast, unmounted opponents should hit a mounted opponent's legs and abdomen.
Another glaring issue is the seemingly random restrictions on where a horse can go. There are places where a caravan can go but not a horse, such as morah. A 16 hand horse is 5'4" at the shoulders and its ears are a bit above the 6' mark. They are not terribly wider than your average human either. A horse should be able to go most anywhere a human can barring things like crawling through narrow openings (though I have seen a mare crawl under a fence repeatedly), guards at doors, exceedingly narrow openings, or near vertical inclines. If it is brush, then how do you explain all the riding trails through forests in reality? A skill can be developed to allow a horse to go up steep inclines, just like horses in reality can be trained to go up stairs. Best of all, if horses were more mobile more people would use them.
Now for a bit of aeshetics. I think it would be a nice touch if we could use clippers to "shape" a horse's coat just like show horses are clipped in real life. Almost any pattern can be clipped into a horses coat, mostly the flanks or an entire blanket, but a checkerboard is a classic example. In addition, treat manes and tails just like hair and open the hair verbs to it.
However, this all pales in comparison that the paladin 'special' ability is really just a normal ability that has been artificially restricted to make it special. Horses can even learn war but because their rider is not a paladin they can not act upon it. Instead, war should be open to all people, just like in reality, but a paladin's bonded warhorse should have special abilities, to be outlined later, that truely make it a cut above the rest. In summary...
--Warhorses are penalized more than horses.
--A spooked horse should not lose any of its tack or barding.
--The magic penalty is unrealistic, too powerful, and is a detriment to the horse system as a whole.
--Bigger is not better. Barding should depend on a horse's build.
--Mounted warriors should have an attack bonus due to height and the resulting gravity and view.
--Mounted warriors tend to hit the upper body of unmounted opponents.
--Unmounted warriors tend to hit the lower body of mounted opponents.
--"Shape" a horse's coat with clippers
--Apply the hair verbs to manes and tails
--Horses can go anywhere a human can barring crawling, excessively narrow openings, or vertical inclines.
--War should be open to all guilds
--A paladin's warhorse should have new abilities to make it special as opposed to everyone else suffering
If war is open to all guilds, paladins should have something to differentiate their bonded warhorse from a normal horse. Unfortunately, the broken bond system needs to be addressed first. Currently, it takes approximately four IG years to accomplish what should take a year. Even worse is that any paladin trying to forge a bond has no idea if what they are doing is correct. This is the only system that requires a year of work to reap the benefits of and is the only system that does not give the players a hint.
--Bonding takes far too long to even get the simplest bond
--No one has a clue if what they are doing is correct
In my past experience with roleplaying paladins, there are three things that clasically made the evil doer soil himself to hear a paladin was coming. Those three things would be his divine aura and associated abilities, his holy sword, and his warhorse. Currently, a paladin's "special" bond is really something that any horse can have with its rider but has been restricted to make it "unique". Open the normal bond to all players but add a special "divine" bond to a paladin. The normal bond acts as it currently does but hopefully will take less time and paladin's should get a bonus to bonding with their horse.
--Everyone should be able to form a "normal" bond with their horse, just like in reality.
--Paladins bond easier than other guilds but those other guilds who really want to bond, can.
--In addition to the "normal" bond, a "divine" bond should be paladin only.
The divine bond is what seperates a paladin's warhorse from any old horse. A quest should be created where a paladin can quest to have an immortal of his choice favor the paladin's partnership with his steed. For a warhorse is the paladin's stoutest and most loyal ally and some even place more value on the steed than on the knight that rode it. Upon completing the quest, the warhorse takes on a characteristic typical of the Immortal chosen with the quest, perhaps indicated by a favor orb the paladin offers. This initial divine bond has the following effects:
--Altered description
--Warhorse is stronger, hardier, and faster than a normal counterpart. This means hits are more accurate, hit harder, and have lower roundtimes. They also can evade and take damage better.
--Superior intelligence. A divine warhorse learns tricks and tasks from rangers and progresses on the critter hunting chain faster.
--Resistance to fear. A divine warhorse is far less likely to spook in battle
--Favored by the Immortals. A divine warhorse can be 'raised' by his paladin using Alamhif's Gift. This is a very important issue as already a moon mage tried to take off my horse's leg and I have heard empaths and clerics saying they refuse to tend to animals. Raise and Alamhif's Gift are both circle 20 spells and divine bonding requires a quest, just like raise. However, Alamhif's Gift costs the paladin a favor and raise costs nothing. It is just as if the paladin is sacrificing his life in exchange for his steed.
As the divine bond grows, the horse acquires new abilities. Some abilities grow with the bond and others are new. Here is a loose list of suggested abilities and their place in the increasing bond ladder. Union takes even more time than the current bond takes to achieve but the bond, normal or divine, never fades.
--Altered description gets more impressive. This is an amazing creature.
--The stronger the bond, the stronger, faster, hardier, and smarter the horse is. The previously mentioned bonuses increase.
--Call. A paladin may attempt to call his warhorse to him and the range increases with the strength of the bond. It is not a physical call, though a whistle may represent it, but more of a telepathic summoning through their divine bond. A warhorse will even attack the stableboys to reach its paladin so while he may call his horse out of the stables a fine is likely to result.
--Fearless. A divine warhorse never falters. Never.
--Comraderie. Using their amazingly strong necks (there are incidents where a horse grabbed a man by the shoulder, lifted him off the ground, and shook him until his shoulder broke. They have strong necks) a warhorse will drag a stunned or prone paladin to safety.
--Military saddles. An expansion of Comraderie, a paladin may purchase a special military saddle that helps him stay mounted even if struck, stunned, or killed. If a paladin is killed while mounted, he stays mounted and the warhorse rides to the nearest source of civilization or a predetermined location to enlist aid for his paladin.
--Innate Blessing. Eventually, a divine bond is so strong that the warhorse's body counts as a blessed weapon, dealing extra damage to any form of undead, even incorporeal. It is an innate ability and never runs out.
--Union. Eventually, the bond is so strong that the paladin and warhorse are nearly one entity. Riding becomes as easy as walking and the paladin never suffers a penalty for being mounted. In addition, any beneficial spell/skill that affects a mounted paladin 'cascades' over the mount, which surrenders its MR temporarily, to the exact same effect the paladin feels. For example, a warhorse would recieve the exact same benefit a cast of Divine Armor has when cast on the mounted paladin. Also, a warhorse helps a paladin resist harmful spells, through their bond, by bolstering the paladin's MR with the warhorses.
Finished... Finally. Thank you for reading as far as you did.
First, suggestions for horses across the board. As it stands, a paladin's warhorse has more penalties than a normal horse, all of which make little, if any, sense. Only a paladin's warhorse may spook and flee the area or grow nervous in melee. Warhorses snort and tremble in combat while horses stand their calmly. If unmounted, a warhorse will suddenly bolt and flee the area for no apparant reason and somehow manages to lose everything in the process while a horse does not. If a paladin dies, his warhorse bolts while a horse can watch its rider get trampled by mammoths and just wait calmly for him to return. If anything, the opposite should be true.
I raise foals every spring during the birthing season. If you tickle a healthy foal's haunches that foal will buck, kick, and run off. This is an instictive response due to the fact that, in nature, horses are prey animals. Training for war breaks a horse from an early age of this habit. When threatened, a normal horse tries to flee. When threatened, a warhorse is supposed to attack. A warhorse should be harder to spook, not easier.
Also, how does a warhorse miraculously lose all its barding in a dead run? How can barding and tack with so many buckles and straps fall off because the horse ran? Do horse not gallop from battle to battle? Barding and tack is designed for the most strenuous activities imaginable. It takes more than a little brush to take off close-fitting armor or else every hunter in this game would be running in the buff.
One penalty that applies to all guilds is the magic penalty. Why does it exist? Riding a horse should be a boon, not a burden. I can cast Divine Armor at 24 mana with ease yet while mounted it hopelessly backfired. I had to cast Smite Foe at minimum prep for it to work. Being mounted can not interfere with gestures that much or how do you explain people casting spells while facing eight different opponents? And a horse's magic resistance should apply to spells cast at the horse or on the room, not the spell being prepared above it. Any horse that is trained to tolerate magic should not hinder spellcasting.
DR already suffers from the "bigger is better" complex, why make it worse? There is no reason to own a smaller horse. How does a gnome even reach the stirrups on a 16hh hand horse? In reality, an 16hh thoroughbred would buckle under the weight of barding while a 12hh warpony would do just fine. It should be a matter of build, not height. If someone is too short for their mount it should be incredibly easy to knock them off. Just a light shove and they fall out of the stirrups and roll over the horse too wide for them to grip. Light build horses should be more agile, such as better at jumping and evading, while strong horses should be able to bear plate barding and hit harder. 18hh horses were for ripping out tree trunks, not war.
I am not sure if this is in place or not but this is a general suggestion for mounted combat. Mounted opponents should have a bonus to damage and accuracy due to height advantage. They should also be hitting the upper body (head, neck, chest, arms, and hands) against unmounted opponents due to elevation. How is your four foot longsword supposed to reach down to someone's thigh if you are seated five feet higher than them? In contrast, unmounted opponents should hit a mounted opponent's legs and abdomen.
Another glaring issue is the seemingly random restrictions on where a horse can go. There are places where a caravan can go but not a horse, such as morah. A 16 hand horse is 5'4" at the shoulders and its ears are a bit above the 6' mark. They are not terribly wider than your average human either. A horse should be able to go most anywhere a human can barring things like crawling through narrow openings (though I have seen a mare crawl under a fence repeatedly), guards at doors, exceedingly narrow openings, or near vertical inclines. If it is brush, then how do you explain all the riding trails through forests in reality? A skill can be developed to allow a horse to go up steep inclines, just like horses in reality can be trained to go up stairs. Best of all, if horses were more mobile more people would use them.
Now for a bit of aeshetics. I think it would be a nice touch if we could use clippers to "shape" a horse's coat just like show horses are clipped in real life. Almost any pattern can be clipped into a horses coat, mostly the flanks or an entire blanket, but a checkerboard is a classic example. In addition, treat manes and tails just like hair and open the hair verbs to it.
However, this all pales in comparison that the paladin 'special' ability is really just a normal ability that has been artificially restricted to make it special. Horses can even learn war but because their rider is not a paladin they can not act upon it. Instead, war should be open to all people, just like in reality, but a paladin's bonded warhorse should have special abilities, to be outlined later, that truely make it a cut above the rest. In summary...
--Warhorses are penalized more than horses.
--A spooked horse should not lose any of its tack or barding.
--The magic penalty is unrealistic, too powerful, and is a detriment to the horse system as a whole.
--Bigger is not better. Barding should depend on a horse's build.
--Mounted warriors should have an attack bonus due to height and the resulting gravity and view.
--Mounted warriors tend to hit the upper body of unmounted opponents.
--Unmounted warriors tend to hit the lower body of mounted opponents.
--"Shape" a horse's coat with clippers
--Apply the hair verbs to manes and tails
--Horses can go anywhere a human can barring crawling, excessively narrow openings, or vertical inclines.
--War should be open to all guilds
--A paladin's warhorse should have new abilities to make it special as opposed to everyone else suffering
If war is open to all guilds, paladins should have something to differentiate their bonded warhorse from a normal horse. Unfortunately, the broken bond system needs to be addressed first. Currently, it takes approximately four IG years to accomplish what should take a year. Even worse is that any paladin trying to forge a bond has no idea if what they are doing is correct. This is the only system that requires a year of work to reap the benefits of and is the only system that does not give the players a hint.
--Bonding takes far too long to even get the simplest bond
--No one has a clue if what they are doing is correct
In my past experience with roleplaying paladins, there are three things that clasically made the evil doer soil himself to hear a paladin was coming. Those three things would be his divine aura and associated abilities, his holy sword, and his warhorse. Currently, a paladin's "special" bond is really something that any horse can have with its rider but has been restricted to make it "unique". Open the normal bond to all players but add a special "divine" bond to a paladin. The normal bond acts as it currently does but hopefully will take less time and paladin's should get a bonus to bonding with their horse.
--Everyone should be able to form a "normal" bond with their horse, just like in reality.
--Paladins bond easier than other guilds but those other guilds who really want to bond, can.
--In addition to the "normal" bond, a "divine" bond should be paladin only.
The divine bond is what seperates a paladin's warhorse from any old horse. A quest should be created where a paladin can quest to have an immortal of his choice favor the paladin's partnership with his steed. For a warhorse is the paladin's stoutest and most loyal ally and some even place more value on the steed than on the knight that rode it. Upon completing the quest, the warhorse takes on a characteristic typical of the Immortal chosen with the quest, perhaps indicated by a favor orb the paladin offers. This initial divine bond has the following effects:
--Altered description
--Warhorse is stronger, hardier, and faster than a normal counterpart. This means hits are more accurate, hit harder, and have lower roundtimes. They also can evade and take damage better.
--Superior intelligence. A divine warhorse learns tricks and tasks from rangers and progresses on the critter hunting chain faster.
--Resistance to fear. A divine warhorse is far less likely to spook in battle
--Favored by the Immortals. A divine warhorse can be 'raised' by his paladin using Alamhif's Gift. This is a very important issue as already a moon mage tried to take off my horse's leg and I have heard empaths and clerics saying they refuse to tend to animals. Raise and Alamhif's Gift are both circle 20 spells and divine bonding requires a quest, just like raise. However, Alamhif's Gift costs the paladin a favor and raise costs nothing. It is just as if the paladin is sacrificing his life in exchange for his steed.
As the divine bond grows, the horse acquires new abilities. Some abilities grow with the bond and others are new. Here is a loose list of suggested abilities and their place in the increasing bond ladder. Union takes even more time than the current bond takes to achieve but the bond, normal or divine, never fades.
--Altered description gets more impressive. This is an amazing creature.
--The stronger the bond, the stronger, faster, hardier, and smarter the horse is. The previously mentioned bonuses increase.
--Call. A paladin may attempt to call his warhorse to him and the range increases with the strength of the bond. It is not a physical call, though a whistle may represent it, but more of a telepathic summoning through their divine bond. A warhorse will even attack the stableboys to reach its paladin so while he may call his horse out of the stables a fine is likely to result.
--Fearless. A divine warhorse never falters. Never.
--Comraderie. Using their amazingly strong necks (there are incidents where a horse grabbed a man by the shoulder, lifted him off the ground, and shook him until his shoulder broke. They have strong necks) a warhorse will drag a stunned or prone paladin to safety.
--Military saddles. An expansion of Comraderie, a paladin may purchase a special military saddle that helps him stay mounted even if struck, stunned, or killed. If a paladin is killed while mounted, he stays mounted and the warhorse rides to the nearest source of civilization or a predetermined location to enlist aid for his paladin.
--Innate Blessing. Eventually, a divine bond is so strong that the warhorse's body counts as a blessed weapon, dealing extra damage to any form of undead, even incorporeal. It is an innate ability and never runs out.
--Union. Eventually, the bond is so strong that the paladin and warhorse are nearly one entity. Riding becomes as easy as walking and the paladin never suffers a penalty for being mounted. In addition, any beneficial spell/skill that affects a mounted paladin 'cascades' over the mount, which surrenders its MR temporarily, to the exact same effect the paladin feels. For example, a warhorse would recieve the exact same benefit a cast of Divine Armor has when cast on the mounted paladin. Also, a warhorse helps a paladin resist harmful spells, through their bond, by bolstering the paladin's MR with the warhorses.
Finished... Finally. Thank you for reading as far as you did.
Beautiful.
I had hoped more of those ideas would have been made a reality already. I have probably sacrificed 10 circles just to play with my horse. I got the first bonding stage when it came out and still haven't seen the second.
But lets take this one step at a time. The "ability" of charging I have with the first level is almost worthless. Charging on a warhorse should be an incredible hit. 90% of the time we miss. The only time it is useful is if I have a pecc on the ground already stunned, then retreat retreat charge. It's almost useless.
To say the least I'm a bit disappointed with the developement of the horse system. I don't see very many folks out there with their horses anymore and its a shame. There is so much potential here, but it hasn't been developed. Overall, I'm still happy with horses because for years we were told it would never be possible at all. And you rarely see Canaw without Tincan around, but please work with this system! So many of the ideas in the previous post were stuff to drool after.
Oh yeah, PLEASE make your horse your horse. As in when i mount my horse...let me type "mount MY horse" instead of figuring out which horse in the room is mine and then typing mount second horse only to have the first horse leave the room. That's so annoying for us full time horse riders.
GREAT POST whoever you were!
Canaw and Tincan, Advocates of Sir Beren
I had hoped more of those ideas would have been made a reality already. I have probably sacrificed 10 circles just to play with my horse. I got the first bonding stage when it came out and still haven't seen the second.
But lets take this one step at a time. The "ability" of charging I have with the first level is almost worthless. Charging on a warhorse should be an incredible hit. 90% of the time we miss. The only time it is useful is if I have a pecc on the ground already stunned, then retreat retreat charge. It's almost useless.
To say the least I'm a bit disappointed with the developement of the horse system. I don't see very many folks out there with their horses anymore and its a shame. There is so much potential here, but it hasn't been developed. Overall, I'm still happy with horses because for years we were told it would never be possible at all. And you rarely see Canaw without Tincan around, but please work with this system! So many of the ideas in the previous post were stuff to drool after.
Oh yeah, PLEASE make your horse your horse. As in when i mount my horse...let me type "mount MY horse" instead of figuring out which horse in the room is mine and then typing mount second horse only to have the first horse leave the room. That's so annoying for us full time horse riders.
GREAT POST whoever you were!
Canaw and Tincan, Advocates of Sir Beren
These are some excellent suggestions; I agree with everything you said in your post. I'd like to add that I, like so many others, feel that as the system currently stands, it's just not worth it to own a horse. If (and likely only if) most of the things on your list were addressed, I'd have a couple of characters who would be getting horses.
Although I would like to add the other two things that would influence me:
1) Bugs -- there need to be fewer.
2) Hobbles would sure be nice.
~Serienna
Although I would like to add the other two things that would influence me:
1) Bugs -- there need to be fewer.
2) Hobbles would sure be nice.
~Serienna
Wonderously beautiful ideas. I especially like the war opened to all but paladins get cool stuff idea, and the associated cool stuff. It really wouldn't make sense that my horse (if I had one), being trained in war, wouldn't have the slightest clue what to do because Im not a paladin. Granted, me being a very tall, burly Tog dosen't make it likely that Ill be able to reasonably get a horse....but hey, a nice 20 hander might be able to hold me up. Maybe. If I pull my legs up. About the description thing: Im a bit torn on this. It is a very, very good idea. Do you mean something like an addition line that says something like "The mare seems to glow with a holy luminescence." or something, or a completely unique description for it? Still, great ideas, all of them.
Drakkenn Rarenth, Toggish Minister
Drakkenn Rarenth, Toggish Minister
Mister Toggish Minister, an 18 hh horse is six feet tall at the shoulders. Unless your legs are longer than six feet, you could definetely ride that behemoth. Gor'Togs are perhaps the only race I see riding an 18hh horse. Maybe.
As for the description, I was thinking just one line such as...
The black horse is sixteen hands high with a pure black coat. It has a black mane and tail. It is a gelding (stallion!) with no other markings. It carries itself with an air of nobility as if charged with a higher purpose (Chadatru).
Though if they want an all original, lovely description I am all for it!
I urge anyone who finds this post the least bit pleasing to please post. We need to show the GMs just how much potential horses have and how much we would enjoy seeing that potential worked on.
(There is something witty here. You are all impressed. Yesss...)
As for the description, I was thinking just one line such as...
The black horse is sixteen hands high with a pure black coat. It has a black mane and tail. It is a gelding (stallion!) with no other markings. It carries itself with an air of nobility as if charged with a higher purpose (Chadatru).
Though if they want an all original, lovely description I am all for it!
I urge anyone who finds this post the least bit pleasing to please post. We need to show the GMs just how much potential horses have and how much we would enjoy seeing that potential worked on.
(There is something witty here. You are all impressed. Yesss...)
I have to say that if some of these changes were implemented, I'd have more characters with horses. As it is, my paladin (the only one with one) rarely even gets hers out of the stables.
~player of ...~
Need cosmetic surgery? Get Shift.
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
~Link removed because truth hurts.~
~player of ...~
Need cosmetic surgery? Get Shift.
http://www.coalition.fairmount.nu
~Link removed because truth hurts.~
Yea, an 18 hand horse would be nice, but they are like, hard to come by aren't they? If I a) had the money, b)there were enough of them, and c) I could find an 18 hh stallion, I would spend it in a heartbeat. I think I remember seeing the S'kra paladin who came before Muspar'i opened riding a 20 hand horse or something.....I remember thinking 'Wow. Now THAT is a horse.'
Drakkenn Rarenth, Toggish Minister
Drakkenn Rarenth, Toggish Minister
<<Only a paladin's warhorse may spook and flee the area or grow nervous in melee. Warhorses snort and tremble in combat while horses stand their calmly. If unmounted, a warhorse will suddenly bolt and flee the area for no apparant reason and somehow manages to lose everything in the process while a horse does not. >>
I take my horse out a great deal. It is a fully trained warhouse and I am a paladin. My horse has never spooked nor fled from an area, unless I used Banner of Truce. And this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing happening. This is fighting mounted and unmounted both. I do the majority of my training with the horse unmounted due to various bugs with mounted combat. So I do not know what you are doing, but something is most definately wrong with your situation.
Do you give it attention while you are fighting? What creatures are you fighting with the horse? I have noticed that when a horse is facing a creature that is alot more skilled than the horse, that it gets nervous/upset very quickly even with the rider paying close attention to it.
Galain advanced my horse once as a joke and my horse was instantly upset. Heh. But this does make my point here.
I have also noticed my horse will become upset (the snorting and trembling behaviors I consider as the horse showing that it is upset) after a long period of time in combat. I'm talking 4-5 hours here.
But even this is rare for me now. Because I constantly pay attention to the horse while in combat. I leave combat when it needs grooming - gives us both a bit of a rest. I give it treat foods and also make sure that it is fully fed - usually with grain for it is the superior food in my opinion.
My horse can kill Gargoyles and vipers without any assistance. I don't hit the critters, I don't halt them, nothing.
It could probably kill more difficult critters, but vipers works just fine for me now since I am learning lower armors there. But I'm sure I would have to train it up to more difficult creatures first. Small Pecs in Lang would be good after Vipers and Gargoyles I would bet.
Anyways I wanted to offer my insights in training my horse. If your horse is demonstrating such behaviors, then something is seriously wrong. If you want to post what you are doing I will try to be of assistance.
I have never died with my horse out, nor had it run off and loose its tack as you stated. I would say offhand that this is a bug and you should Assist in the game on the matter for possible compensation. At the very least, please Bug report this here and/or in the game.
While it does make it difficult to cast, I agree with the added difficulty while casting magic on horseback. Although I believe that the added difficulty should also give an added reward in Experience. I have not noticed this to be the case.
I like your suggestions in general. I wrote a few posts in the past suggesting that all guilds should have some benefit from a War trained horse. The very reason alot of my friends do not take out their horses is that they do not fight for them like mine does. This is sad.
As to the boinding system - there is a definate need for some GM assistance in this area. Working to establish a bond for a year, perhaps longer, is not a PAFO situation. It is a bit unreasonable when we do not know what we are doing correct and what we are doing wrong. So some hints from GM Jeremael here on the boards would be most appreciated.
The three paladins that have formed the bond - and to the best of my knowledge there are only three - Canaw, Hansley, and Gadorr - have done nothing than what I have been doing the entire time since the first week of the horse system.
Gadorr said that he had his horse stabled for 4 months. I was gone for 3 months. So my time with my horse should be equal if not greater than Gadorr's. I should have the first level bond, yet I do not.
I state this not to whine, but to express my frustration. The only logical belief I can have is that I am doing something wrong. But without some kind of guide I will never know. Rangers know when they make a mistake with their racoons or wolves. Why is it that we do not have some kind of guideance here?
Anyway great stuff there whoever you are. Please post and tell me what you are doing to train your horse and I'll try to help out.
Candidus
I take my horse out a great deal. It is a fully trained warhouse and I am a paladin. My horse has never spooked nor fled from an area, unless I used Banner of Truce. And this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing happening. This is fighting mounted and unmounted both. I do the majority of my training with the horse unmounted due to various bugs with mounted combat. So I do not know what you are doing, but something is most definately wrong with your situation.
Do you give it attention while you are fighting? What creatures are you fighting with the horse? I have noticed that when a horse is facing a creature that is alot more skilled than the horse, that it gets nervous/upset very quickly even with the rider paying close attention to it.
Galain advanced my horse once as a joke and my horse was instantly upset. Heh. But this does make my point here.
I have also noticed my horse will become upset (the snorting and trembling behaviors I consider as the horse showing that it is upset) after a long period of time in combat. I'm talking 4-5 hours here.
But even this is rare for me now. Because I constantly pay attention to the horse while in combat. I leave combat when it needs grooming - gives us both a bit of a rest. I give it treat foods and also make sure that it is fully fed - usually with grain for it is the superior food in my opinion.
My horse can kill Gargoyles and vipers without any assistance. I don't hit the critters, I don't halt them, nothing.
It could probably kill more difficult critters, but vipers works just fine for me now since I am learning lower armors there. But I'm sure I would have to train it up to more difficult creatures first. Small Pecs in Lang would be good after Vipers and Gargoyles I would bet.
Anyways I wanted to offer my insights in training my horse. If your horse is demonstrating such behaviors, then something is seriously wrong. If you want to post what you are doing I will try to be of assistance.
I have never died with my horse out, nor had it run off and loose its tack as you stated. I would say offhand that this is a bug and you should Assist in the game on the matter for possible compensation. At the very least, please Bug report this here and/or in the game.
While it does make it difficult to cast, I agree with the added difficulty while casting magic on horseback. Although I believe that the added difficulty should also give an added reward in Experience. I have not noticed this to be the case.
I like your suggestions in general. I wrote a few posts in the past suggesting that all guilds should have some benefit from a War trained horse. The very reason alot of my friends do not take out their horses is that they do not fight for them like mine does. This is sad.
As to the boinding system - there is a definate need for some GM assistance in this area. Working to establish a bond for a year, perhaps longer, is not a PAFO situation. It is a bit unreasonable when we do not know what we are doing correct and what we are doing wrong. So some hints from GM Jeremael here on the boards would be most appreciated.
The three paladins that have formed the bond - and to the best of my knowledge there are only three - Canaw, Hansley, and Gadorr - have done nothing than what I have been doing the entire time since the first week of the horse system.
Gadorr said that he had his horse stabled for 4 months. I was gone for 3 months. So my time with my horse should be equal if not greater than Gadorr's. I should have the first level bond, yet I do not.
I state this not to whine, but to express my frustration. The only logical belief I can have is that I am doing something wrong. But without some kind of guide I will never know. Rangers know when they make a mistake with their racoons or wolves. Why is it that we do not have some kind of guideance here?
Anyway great stuff there whoever you are. Please post and tell me what you are doing to train your horse and I'll try to help out.
Candidus
> I have never died with my horse out, nor had it run off and loose its tack as you stated. I would say offhand that this is a bug and you should Assist in the game on the matter for possible compensation. At the very least, please Bug report this here and/or in the game.
Both have happened to me.. and I was told by a GM that it wasn't a bug, but a "feature."
Mine first bolted pretty near to when he was first trained and I was working him in goblins. We moved away from a group, were in a room alone, and suddenly he wasn't there. I was told that perhaps there was someone in hiding that spooked him, this was by a GM.
Second time, he bolted while in gargoyles. One minute he was there, the next minute he was gone. No messaging, no warning, no nervous actions or anything to let me know anything was awry.
The last time he bolted was when I died in gargoyles.
Each time I had to have the stable retrieve him, and each time I'd lost tack.
It hasn't happened since that last time in gargoyles, and that's been a long time... I don't know if perhaps that "feature" was taken out after my long and decidedly angry rants on the subject.
He still gets nervous now and then, but nothing more. Currently he's hitting swamp trolls in Haven if I've got them pretty beat down.
Serrin
Both have happened to me.. and I was told by a GM that it wasn't a bug, but a "feature."
Mine first bolted pretty near to when he was first trained and I was working him in goblins. We moved away from a group, were in a room alone, and suddenly he wasn't there. I was told that perhaps there was someone in hiding that spooked him, this was by a GM.
Second time, he bolted while in gargoyles. One minute he was there, the next minute he was gone. No messaging, no warning, no nervous actions or anything to let me know anything was awry.
The last time he bolted was when I died in gargoyles.
Each time I had to have the stable retrieve him, and each time I'd lost tack.
It hasn't happened since that last time in gargoyles, and that's been a long time... I don't know if perhaps that "feature" was taken out after my long and decidedly angry rants on the subject.
He still gets nervous now and then, but nothing more. Currently he's hitting swamp trolls in Haven if I've got them pretty beat down.
Serrin
> I take my horse out a great deal. It is a fully trained warhouse and I am a paladin. My horse has never spooked nor fled from an area
I've never had that problem either, but I have seen it happen twice with other paladins. It may well be a function of the paladins stats/skills/circle, since in the two cases where I saw it happen, the paladins in question were significently lower circle than I was. I take my horse with me every time I go to hunt peccaries on M'riss, and while she'll get nervous from time to time, never had her go beyond just being nervous.
Dash & the gang
Curious about DragonRealms Platinum? Find out more at http://members.tripod.com/cervanntes/DragonRealms/index.htm
I've never had that problem either, but I have seen it happen twice with other paladins. It may well be a function of the paladins stats/skills/circle, since in the two cases where I saw it happen, the paladins in question were significently lower circle than I was. I take my horse with me every time I go to hunt peccaries on M'riss, and while she'll get nervous from time to time, never had her go beyond just being nervous.
Dash & the gang
Curious about DragonRealms Platinum? Find out more at http://members.tripod.com/cervanntes/DragonRealms/index.htm
Candidus
I feel your frustration. I have Tincan out almost constantly and I do have the bond, but I don't know what I did to get it. Perhaps the fact that people make fun of Canaw and his horse has something to do with it. That's how close we are. Of course you aren't really missing anything cause the SIGNAL HORSE TO CHARGE <critter> isn't really worth anything. It's almost useless. And Tincan still gets nervous and grumpy even though I'm constantly interacting with him. So really, right now the bond has added nothing.
On that note, another thing that a bonded horse needs is LESS required interaction time. I'd think with the bond that he wouldn't require me to touch him every 2.5 seconds. As it is, I think it was easier for me to keep him happy before the bond. That may not be right, but it sure seems that way to me. I would hope that it would get better and I could leave him alone for a half hour without him getting ticked at me. Makes it difficult when you have to run into the Ker Leor area to pull off a rescue and leave your horse outside. Cause by the time you get back he's ticked again and most of the time you can't bring em out of it. So to the stables with him and I just lost at least an hour with him.
Anyway, please give us some feedback GM's.... or at least tell us to shut up. Just acknowledging you are hearing this and giving us a line like, "We are working on it" would be better than nothing at all.
Overall I'm still happy we have horses, cause for years you told us it would never be possible. But they have been out for quite awhile now, and the only change i have seen was the first bonding level.
Things that need looked at:
lead MY horse, pat MY horse, scratch MY horse, better bonding (make signal horse charge much better for starters), let us know if we are bonding correctly, all guilds use war (Paladin's alot better someway), Tincan named horse of the year, group riding, being able to mount a horse even if someone is hiding and stalking you, fix places horses can go, fix horse combat (so i don't have to face fifth critter instead of horse just turning to the next).
Canaw
I feel your frustration. I have Tincan out almost constantly and I do have the bond, but I don't know what I did to get it. Perhaps the fact that people make fun of Canaw and his horse has something to do with it. That's how close we are. Of course you aren't really missing anything cause the SIGNAL HORSE TO CHARGE <critter> isn't really worth anything. It's almost useless. And Tincan still gets nervous and grumpy even though I'm constantly interacting with him. So really, right now the bond has added nothing.
On that note, another thing that a bonded horse needs is LESS required interaction time. I'd think with the bond that he wouldn't require me to touch him every 2.5 seconds. As it is, I think it was easier for me to keep him happy before the bond. That may not be right, but it sure seems that way to me. I would hope that it would get better and I could leave him alone for a half hour without him getting ticked at me. Makes it difficult when you have to run into the Ker Leor area to pull off a rescue and leave your horse outside. Cause by the time you get back he's ticked again and most of the time you can't bring em out of it. So to the stables with him and I just lost at least an hour with him.
Anyway, please give us some feedback GM's.... or at least tell us to shut up. Just acknowledging you are hearing this and giving us a line like, "We are working on it" would be better than nothing at all.
Overall I'm still happy we have horses, cause for years you told us it would never be possible. But they have been out for quite awhile now, and the only change i have seen was the first bonding level.
Things that need looked at:
lead MY horse, pat MY horse, scratch MY horse, better bonding (make signal horse charge much better for starters), let us know if we are bonding correctly, all guilds use war (Paladin's alot better someway), Tincan named horse of the year, group riding, being able to mount a horse even if someone is hiding and stalking you, fix places horses can go, fix horse combat (so i don't have to face fifth critter instead of horse just turning to the next).
Canaw
To add to that list of things that needs to be improved:
Face Next verb needs to be useable while on horseback.
Horses need to be able to Advance while you are mounted so that you do not have dismount, wait for them to start advancing, and remount. Tis quite silly and something I have bugged/commented/nagged on since day one.
Since contact with the horse seems to be so necessary to keeping the temperment good, as well as possibly helping with the bond, we should be able to interact with the horse when it is at melee. Not receive the messaging: "The horse looks to busy for that right now." Or whatever it is.
In the last two above: this is when you have got your horse Facing and Advancing on its own, as well as it showing up in Assess.
And finally there should be some definate advantage to mounted combat. I know this is most likely a huge project, but can we get something? At least a status report please?
And it would be deeply appreciated to have some guide for the bonding process.
I also am still very happy with the horse system - except for these few areas. And others that I will not go into at the moment. But after being told for so long that it would not be possible, then having it come....and then development seemingly coming to a Halt on it, it is a bit frustrating.
An update on these and other matters that folks have posted upon would be most appreciated.
Sincerely,
Candidus
Face Next verb needs to be useable while on horseback.
Horses need to be able to Advance while you are mounted so that you do not have dismount, wait for them to start advancing, and remount. Tis quite silly and something I have bugged/commented/nagged on since day one.
Since contact with the horse seems to be so necessary to keeping the temperment good, as well as possibly helping with the bond, we should be able to interact with the horse when it is at melee. Not receive the messaging: "The horse looks to busy for that right now." Or whatever it is.
In the last two above: this is when you have got your horse Facing and Advancing on its own, as well as it showing up in Assess.
And finally there should be some definate advantage to mounted combat. I know this is most likely a huge project, but can we get something? At least a status report please?
And it would be deeply appreciated to have some guide for the bonding process.
I also am still very happy with the horse system - except for these few areas. And others that I will not go into at the moment. But after being told for so long that it would not be possible, then having it come....and then development seemingly coming to a Halt on it, it is a bit frustrating.
An update on these and other matters that folks have posted upon would be most appreciated.
Sincerely,
Candidus
In general, the major (major, not only) advantage for Paladins should remain their horses ability to fight enemies while Paladins aren't riding them. That is a huge perk due to MO advantage.
Paladins should keep this, while everyone should be able to use their horse in combat as long as they are mounted. (In general, some exceptions. See below)
I also believe there should be a Horsemanship skill. This skill would allow for abilities involving the adventurer using the horse to be created and improve your horsemanship skill with the use of each ability, much like weapons. Riding and grooming could teach well till rank 30.
Suggestions for Abilities: Suggested rank needed in ()
Charging: Charging into an enemy or groups to knock them off balance or down with possibility of being knocked off your horse. Chance of creatures being hurt from fall and/or impact. Charge takes about 5 seconds. (Peperic suggested this very recently) (30)
Spinning: Spinning at melee on horse to continue knocking opponents off balance and possibly down. Chance of creatures being hurt from fall and/or impact. Obviously creatures might knock you off or something might occur to dismount you. (125)
Tackling and grapple: Charging into a single creature and diving into the creature trying to grapple. Failure has you on ground at melee, and creature might be off balance or down. Success has you and creature grappled and lieing down. Possibility of dislodging weapons and shields from hands. (Better hope you don't get skewered) (250)
Tackling and rolling: Charging into a single creature and diving into the creature without being grappled. Creature is knocked down or off balance, you roll to your feet and at melee. Failure has you rolling to feet at melee and creature possibly off balance. Possibility of dislodging weapons and shields from hands. Easier than tackling and grapple. (175)
Charging Mount: Here's an example of a possible exception I mentioned. Whistling for mount to charge and you attempt to mount. A success puts enemies on the ground or off balance and you mounted while in RT at Missle Range. A failed attempt puts you lieing down in RT, and creatures are possibly lieing down, but definitely off balance. (While reading Paladins' folder I believe, someone mentioned Legolas' (LOTR) mount and I thought of this ability) (75)
Rear: Melee attack. Horse tries to trample enemy and/or kick enemy while you are mounted. (200)
Charge and Trample: Paladin only. Missle attack. Charge with the intent of trampling. Possiblity of only knocking them off balance or down. (150)
All abilities have risk of being dismounted by enemies. Paladins train possibility of being knocked off their horse down the lowest. Rangers and Barbs next lowest. The rest of the guilds are next. Also, horses flee to missle and attempt to stay at missle when dismounted.
Paladins gain the ability to lead multiple people in the charge. Once initiated, if someone in the group doesn't agree, they can individually pull out.
I appreciate any feedback. I'm especially interested in Paladin's opinions on fairness to their perks and brief reasons why either way.
Zyrix S'thorn, Ranger
Paladins should keep this, while everyone should be able to use their horse in combat as long as they are mounted. (In general, some exceptions. See below)
I also believe there should be a Horsemanship skill. This skill would allow for abilities involving the adventurer using the horse to be created and improve your horsemanship skill with the use of each ability, much like weapons. Riding and grooming could teach well till rank 30.
Suggestions for Abilities: Suggested rank needed in ()
Charging: Charging into an enemy or groups to knock them off balance or down with possibility of being knocked off your horse. Chance of creatures being hurt from fall and/or impact. Charge takes about 5 seconds. (Peperic suggested this very recently) (30)
Spinning: Spinning at melee on horse to continue knocking opponents off balance and possibly down. Chance of creatures being hurt from fall and/or impact. Obviously creatures might knock you off or something might occur to dismount you. (125)
Tackling and grapple: Charging into a single creature and diving into the creature trying to grapple. Failure has you on ground at melee, and creature might be off balance or down. Success has you and creature grappled and lieing down. Possibility of dislodging weapons and shields from hands. (Better hope you don't get skewered) (250)
Tackling and rolling: Charging into a single creature and diving into the creature without being grappled. Creature is knocked down or off balance, you roll to your feet and at melee. Failure has you rolling to feet at melee and creature possibly off balance. Possibility of dislodging weapons and shields from hands. Easier than tackling and grapple. (175)
Charging Mount: Here's an example of a possible exception I mentioned. Whistling for mount to charge and you attempt to mount. A success puts enemies on the ground or off balance and you mounted while in RT at Missle Range. A failed attempt puts you lieing down in RT, and creatures are possibly lieing down, but definitely off balance. (While reading Paladins' folder I believe, someone mentioned Legolas' (LOTR) mount and I thought of this ability) (75)
Rear: Melee attack. Horse tries to trample enemy and/or kick enemy while you are mounted. (200)
Charge and Trample: Paladin only. Missle attack. Charge with the intent of trampling. Possiblity of only knocking them off balance or down. (150)
All abilities have risk of being dismounted by enemies. Paladins train possibility of being knocked off their horse down the lowest. Rangers and Barbs next lowest. The rest of the guilds are next. Also, horses flee to missle and attempt to stay at missle when dismounted.
Paladins gain the ability to lead multiple people in the charge. Once initiated, if someone in the group doesn't agree, they can individually pull out.
I appreciate any feedback. I'm especially interested in Paladin's opinions on fairness to their perks and brief reasons why either way.
Zyrix S'thorn, Ranger
Personally, at this point.. ANY changes to horses to make them more interesting, useful, cool, etc would be acceptable to me.
Horses were a great idea with a LOT of potential.. that then just withered on the vine and have become fluff.
Allow riding groups.. folks walking in a group with a rider as long as the rider is moving at a walking pace.. allow some minor storage/carrying by the horses to make them more useful. Take away the HUGE penalty to casting any sort of magic while mounted to make them useful to mages in combat. Open more areas to allow hunters to take their horses with em..
Allow a riding skill to define our bonds with our horses.. allow ANY actual known method to let us form our bonds with our horses.. this stuff of "maybe, someday.. somehow.. if you spend enough time patting and scratching and feeding treats to your horse.. you'll magically gain a bond with it".. gets old.
Some great ideas put forth in your post.. hope someone in the coding side picks up on it and actually does something with the horses.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
Horses were a great idea with a LOT of potential.. that then just withered on the vine and have become fluff.
Allow riding groups.. folks walking in a group with a rider as long as the rider is moving at a walking pace.. allow some minor storage/carrying by the horses to make them more useful. Take away the HUGE penalty to casting any sort of magic while mounted to make them useful to mages in combat. Open more areas to allow hunters to take their horses with em..
Allow a riding skill to define our bonds with our horses.. allow ANY actual known method to let us form our bonds with our horses.. this stuff of "maybe, someday.. somehow.. if you spend enough time patting and scratching and feeding treats to your horse.. you'll magically gain a bond with it".. gets old.
Some great ideas put forth in your post.. hope someone in the coding side picks up on it and actually does something with the horses.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
Good stuff, all stuff I'd like to see.
I'd been saying to myself, paladins, sure, need good horse abilities. Mounts have been a traditional part of paladin classes in pen and paper RPGs.
But what about the rest of us. I'm not saying we're heavy cavalry material, like they are. But, we're definitely potential light or medium horse...Mongol raiders come to mind. Or even, forgive me, Rohan. (mmm...DVDs are good.)
Horse archers (god that would likely make staying at missile range MUCH easier!), or sword swinging from horseback, just the advanced position of being up there on horseback should offer greater power to our attacks.
A horse in and of itself is a weapon...because of it's sheer size! not to mention...four hard hooves, and some nasty grass chomping incisors. Hmm...
Could they have a bite attack? maybe for some foes, they could latch on and give 'em a shake?
Perhaps in a multi situation, you cant be gotten behind? I mean, who'd want to get behind a horse? There's that nasty tendancy they have of...kicking wickedly hard...
I can see all these things taking horsemanship training, and training for the horse...but, horses should be...more than they currently are.
It'd be nice just to be able to put bundles and bags of boxes on them. Perhaps nothing incredibly valuable. But the heavy items you aquire during a hunt that can get you killed because of the burden they create.
All good stuff, I want to see it!
-Natole
~The dance of death is a celebration of life to those who know the steps.
~I am Bard, hear me roar.
~"Amachi abulaes, lasablarger abulremer ia lyoalreidshabi erestaevan. Naenan ri gaena ri kweld."
I'd been saying to myself, paladins, sure, need good horse abilities. Mounts have been a traditional part of paladin classes in pen and paper RPGs.
But what about the rest of us. I'm not saying we're heavy cavalry material, like they are. But, we're definitely potential light or medium horse...Mongol raiders come to mind. Or even, forgive me, Rohan. (mmm...DVDs are good.)
Horse archers (god that would likely make staying at missile range MUCH easier!), or sword swinging from horseback, just the advanced position of being up there on horseback should offer greater power to our attacks.
A horse in and of itself is a weapon...because of it's sheer size! not to mention...four hard hooves, and some nasty grass chomping incisors. Hmm...
Could they have a bite attack? maybe for some foes, they could latch on and give 'em a shake?
Perhaps in a multi situation, you cant be gotten behind? I mean, who'd want to get behind a horse? There's that nasty tendancy they have of...kicking wickedly hard...
I can see all these things taking horsemanship training, and training for the horse...but, horses should be...more than they currently are.
It'd be nice just to be able to put bundles and bags of boxes on them. Perhaps nothing incredibly valuable. But the heavy items you aquire during a hunt that can get you killed because of the burden they create.
All good stuff, I want to see it!
-Natole
~The dance of death is a celebration of life to those who know the steps.
~I am Bard, hear me roar.
~"Amachi abulaes, lasablarger abulremer ia lyoalreidshabi erestaevan. Naenan ri gaena ri kweld."
<<But what about the rest of us. I'm not saying we're heavy cavalry material, like they are. But, we're definitely potential light or medium horse...Mongol raiders come to mind. Or even, forgive me, Rohan. (mmm...DVDs are good.)
Horse archers (god that would likely make staying at missile range MUCH easier!), or sword swinging from horseback, just the advanced position of being up there on horseback should offer greater power to our attacks.
Just to emphasize what my post said reguarding Paladins and my opinion of what their advantage with horses should be, I will copy part of my original post. Sounds like you might have gotten confused. If you aren't confused, sorry for implying you did.
"In general, the major (major, not only) advantage for Paladins should remain their horses ability to fight enemies while PALADINS AREN'T RIDING THEM. That is a huge perk due to MO advantage." In other words, all guilds have access to abilities while mounted, and Paladins get more perks for abilities while not mounted.
Zyrix S'thorn
Horse archers (god that would likely make staying at missile range MUCH easier!), or sword swinging from horseback, just the advanced position of being up there on horseback should offer greater power to our attacks.
Just to emphasize what my post said reguarding Paladins and my opinion of what their advantage with horses should be, I will copy part of my original post. Sounds like you might have gotten confused. If you aren't confused, sorry for implying you did.
"In general, the major (major, not only) advantage for Paladins should remain their horses ability to fight enemies while PALADINS AREN'T RIDING THEM. That is a huge perk due to MO advantage." In other words, all guilds have access to abilities while mounted, and Paladins get more perks for abilities while not mounted.
Zyrix S'thorn
Zyrix,
>>In general, the major (major, not only) advantage for Paladins should remain their horses ability to fight enemies while PALADINS AREN'T RIDING THEM. That is a huge perk due to MO advantage." In other words, all guilds have access to abilities while mounted, and Paladins get more perks for abilities while not mounted.
But, why should a paladin be MORE effective dismounted than mounted? Should be the other way around in my opinion. Actually, all of us should be just as combat effective mounted as dismounted, to include casting spells mounted on a properly trained horse. With a Paladin (Heavy Cavalry) a bit MORE effective with a charge-type attack. In addition to a Paladin mount's ability to fight enemies with their own attacks in addition to the paladin attacks, I would think a slight boost to the rider's MO for all guilds would be appropriate.. thinking of the earlier post about critters avoiding getting behind the mounted warrior in fear of getting kicked by the horse.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
>>In general, the major (major, not only) advantage for Paladins should remain their horses ability to fight enemies while PALADINS AREN'T RIDING THEM. That is a huge perk due to MO advantage." In other words, all guilds have access to abilities while mounted, and Paladins get more perks for abilities while not mounted.
But, why should a paladin be MORE effective dismounted than mounted? Should be the other way around in my opinion. Actually, all of us should be just as combat effective mounted as dismounted, to include casting spells mounted on a properly trained horse. With a Paladin (Heavy Cavalry) a bit MORE effective with a charge-type attack. In addition to a Paladin mount's ability to fight enemies with their own attacks in addition to the paladin attacks, I would think a slight boost to the rider's MO for all guilds would be appropriate.. thinking of the earlier post about critters avoiding getting behind the mounted warrior in fear of getting kicked by the horse.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
<<I would think a slight boost to the rider's MO for all guilds would be appropriate.. thinking of the earlier post about critters avoiding getting behind the mounted warrior in fear of getting kicked by the horse.
I'd like to see a severe MO penalty for the goat riding folk...what huntable critters are afraid of goats?
I'd like to see a severe MO penalty for the goat riding folk...what huntable critters are afraid of goats?
>>what huntable critters are afraid of goats?
Paladins. I haven't met a tin can yet a goat wouldn't eat ...
~ Nutawa
_______________________________
Gidske's Armor Guide: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms
Character Portrait: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms/nutawa.jpg
Paladins. I haven't met a tin can yet a goat wouldn't eat ...
~ Nutawa
_______________________________
Gidske's Armor Guide: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms
Character Portrait: http://www.heromachine.com/drealms/nutawa.jpg
<<But, why should a paladin be MORE effective dismounted than mounted? Should be the other way around in my opinion. Actually, all of us should be just as combat effective mounted as dismounted, to include casting spells mounted on a properly trained horse.
I think I see what you're saying. You're saying the Paladin needs to be at least as effective while mounted so that the only incentive to fight dismounted is personal choice or situational advantage. That makes sense and I didn't mean to imply this would be the case. As such, I could see a Paladin having a better max/min to the damage, balance, rt or any other advantage gained from the use of the ability for some of the abilities. Maybe allow for Paladins to use the abilities (or some of the abilities) at lower ranks of the suggested Horsemanship skill. I'm confident the GM's could make sure the Paladin's choice of mounted or dismounted is due to personal choice or situational advantage and not to dismounted or mounted being better than the other in all situations.
<<With a Paladin (Heavy Cavalry) a bit MORE effective with a charge-type attack. In addition to a Paladin mount's ability to fight enemies with their own attacks in addition to the paladin attacks,
I can understand this, however I see it as being a result of a Paladin's natural skill with a horse, not because they are Heavy Calvary. I assume Heavy Calvary to be more a result of the type armor the horse wears. Currently, I don't think (Not sure since I haven't messed with horse armor) there are restrictions to what guild's horse can wear what armor. Maybe there should be? I would see it as more of restrictions based on the type of horse (essentially size and build).
<<I would think a slight boost to the rider's MO for all guilds would be appropriate.. thinking of the earlier post about critters avoiding getting behind the mounted warrior in fear of getting kicked by the horse.
Sounds good to me. It also seems to make sense.
Zyrix S'thorn
I think I see what you're saying. You're saying the Paladin needs to be at least as effective while mounted so that the only incentive to fight dismounted is personal choice or situational advantage. That makes sense and I didn't mean to imply this would be the case. As such, I could see a Paladin having a better max/min to the damage, balance, rt or any other advantage gained from the use of the ability for some of the abilities. Maybe allow for Paladins to use the abilities (or some of the abilities) at lower ranks of the suggested Horsemanship skill. I'm confident the GM's could make sure the Paladin's choice of mounted or dismounted is due to personal choice or situational advantage and not to dismounted or mounted being better than the other in all situations.
<<With a Paladin (Heavy Cavalry) a bit MORE effective with a charge-type attack. In addition to a Paladin mount's ability to fight enemies with their own attacks in addition to the paladin attacks,
I can understand this, however I see it as being a result of a Paladin's natural skill with a horse, not because they are Heavy Calvary. I assume Heavy Calvary to be more a result of the type armor the horse wears. Currently, I don't think (Not sure since I haven't messed with horse armor) there are restrictions to what guild's horse can wear what armor. Maybe there should be? I would see it as more of restrictions based on the type of horse (essentially size and build).
<<I would think a slight boost to the rider's MO for all guilds would be appropriate.. thinking of the earlier post about critters avoiding getting behind the mounted warrior in fear of getting kicked by the horse.
Sounds good to me. It also seems to make sense.
Zyrix S'thorn
Zyrix,
Just a clarification:
>>Actually, all of us should be just as combat effective mounted as dismounted, to include casting spells mounted on a properly trained horse.
By "all of us", I meant "all guilds". This thing of not hitting as hard.. or being in a semi-brawling mode while mounted, plus having spells be half as effective or take twice as much mana should be done away with for all guilds. A bard with 100 HE should be just as effective mounted as a ranger with 100 HE and as a Paladin with 100 HE. And all should be just as effective with those 100 ranks mounted as they are when dismounted.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
Just a clarification:
>>Actually, all of us should be just as combat effective mounted as dismounted, to include casting spells mounted on a properly trained horse.
By "all of us", I meant "all guilds". This thing of not hitting as hard.. or being in a semi-brawling mode while mounted, plus having spells be half as effective or take twice as much mana should be done away with for all guilds. A bard with 100 HE should be just as effective mounted as a ranger with 100 HE and as a Paladin with 100 HE. And all should be just as effective with those 100 ranks mounted as they are when dismounted.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
I don't know if this suggestion has been made, if it has, I appologize. But I have a suggestion of teaching horses to not be scared of hiders. Being able to surprise a horse would be a fun RP. Could also put skill checks in various places. I would think that a thief would be able to train the horse in this area. Or a Ranger, whatever you want to do. Anyway, let me show you my idea.
*bad surprise on untrained horse*
You notice Joebob slip into a hiding spot.
You notice Joebob trying to stalk an untrained horse.
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at an untrained horse. The untrained horse neigh's loudly and kicks it's backhooves in the air, catching Joebob in the forehead and throwing you off the horse. The horse takes off in (whatever direction) at an alarming speed. You fall to the ground stunned. Joebob falls to the ground stunned.
>l joebob wound
He appears to be stunned, other then that he has...
A large hoofprint on his forehead.
*good surprise on untrained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at an untrained horse. The untrained horse rears, kicking it's front hooves in the air causing you to be thrown off before the horse takes off in (whatever) direction at an alarming speed. You fall to the ground stunned.
*bad surprise on a trained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at a trained horse. The horse looks back at him with little interest. However, you seem to catch a soft sound, that sounds like a snicker, from the horse before it kicks his back hooves in the air and catches Joebob in the forehead. You manage to keep your balance on the horse. Joebob falls to the ground stunned.
*good surprise on trained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at a trained horse. The horse looks back at him with little interest. However, you seem to catch a soft sound, that sounds like a snicker, from the horse before it kicks his back hooves in the air, Joebob ducks out of the way.
I also thing this ability for the horse would help, not only because I find the above funny, but I think a person should be able to go into RF without the horse throwing them off. And since the horse is trained to not get scared with a person in RF on their back, but as well would take directions from that person. The skill checks I was talking about would be hiding, of course, and evasion if the horse tries to kick you in the head. Also maybe some kind of skill check to keep you on the horse in the case that it rears. Of course the horse would travel about the same distance it would gallop, of course by itself it would turn directions by itself, maybe a little farther before stopping to graze. You would have to go look for your horse if it runs off without you on it.
Thank you for hearing my idea.
-ShadowStriker a.k.a. The Blahmistress
I win!!!
*bad surprise on untrained horse*
You notice Joebob slip into a hiding spot.
You notice Joebob trying to stalk an untrained horse.
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at an untrained horse. The untrained horse neigh's loudly and kicks it's backhooves in the air, catching Joebob in the forehead and throwing you off the horse. The horse takes off in (whatever direction) at an alarming speed. You fall to the ground stunned. Joebob falls to the ground stunned.
>l joebob wound
He appears to be stunned, other then that he has...
A large hoofprint on his forehead.
*good surprise on untrained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at an untrained horse. The untrained horse rears, kicking it's front hooves in the air causing you to be thrown off before the horse takes off in (whatever) direction at an alarming speed. You fall to the ground stunned.
*bad surprise on a trained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at a trained horse. The horse looks back at him with little interest. However, you seem to catch a soft sound, that sounds like a snicker, from the horse before it kicks his back hooves in the air and catches Joebob in the forehead. You manage to keep your balance on the horse. Joebob falls to the ground stunned.
*good surprise on trained horse*
You notice Joebob jump out of hiding at a trained horse. The horse looks back at him with little interest. However, you seem to catch a soft sound, that sounds like a snicker, from the horse before it kicks his back hooves in the air, Joebob ducks out of the way.
I also thing this ability for the horse would help, not only because I find the above funny, but I think a person should be able to go into RF without the horse throwing them off. And since the horse is trained to not get scared with a person in RF on their back, but as well would take directions from that person. The skill checks I was talking about would be hiding, of course, and evasion if the horse tries to kick you in the head. Also maybe some kind of skill check to keep you on the horse in the case that it rears. Of course the horse would travel about the same distance it would gallop, of course by itself it would turn directions by itself, maybe a little farther before stopping to graze. You would have to go look for your horse if it runs off without you on it.
Thank you for hearing my idea.
-ShadowStriker a.k.a. The Blahmistress
I win!!!
Well, we had some magic carpets..
Along those lines, I think it would be nice if some flying brooms were sold at an auction or raffle.
Maybe some of you will hate this idea, I don't know.
I just thought it would be something neat to see.
Regards,
player of Syrath
Kinsmen, Steel, Stone.
www.stone-clan.com
Think it could be possible to forage some grass or corn in The Royal Mews area? Currently one has to go out to the Northwall Trail to forage grass. Surely the fields along the pathway used for training should have some grass growing there. The room descriptions mention trees and hedges and the like.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
I posted these waaaaay back when but, as we have a new Horse GM, I think its time to try again. Since there is so much to cover, I am breaking my posts up by section so that people can read and reply to what interests them.
* Horses should be able to go almost anywhere people can.
Enough of this seemingly random assortment of horse-friendly exits. Horses should be able to go anywhere people can as the rule with the horse-unfriendly exits as the exception. Horses can be trained to climb stairs. I have watched a horse drop down on her stomach and /crawl/ underneath a fence. Horses can also swim, jump, and walk sideways. The only thing that should stop a horse is a portal into a place the owner's wouldn't allow it and a nearly vertical slope. Most slopes a horse can climb.
* Horses should not lose their tack or barding when they flee or on disconnect.
That stuff is attached with straps. Lots of them. Does our armor fall off when we die? Do random bits of fluff miraculously dissapear? There is no way tack and barding designed for hard riding or war would fall off because a horse runs through brush. The only way for that stuff to get off is for someone to take it off and most horses are smart enough to not allow that. A warhorse would sooner kill a man than let someone besides his rider or stablehands mess with his tack. It was still risky for the stablehands too.
* Horses should be capable of customized appearances.
We already have a system in place for hair. Why not apply that system to a horse's mane and tail since that is hair too? In horse shows, clipping a pattern into the horse's blanket (the back and rear) is pretty common. With a pair of clippers, let riders clip patterns into the horse's blanket such as checkerboards, stripes, or whatever else. I'm sure the GMs can think of something.
* Horses should be able to go almost anywhere people can.
Enough of this seemingly random assortment of horse-friendly exits. Horses should be able to go anywhere people can as the rule with the horse-unfriendly exits as the exception. Horses can be trained to climb stairs. I have watched a horse drop down on her stomach and /crawl/ underneath a fence. Horses can also swim, jump, and walk sideways. The only thing that should stop a horse is a portal into a place the owner's wouldn't allow it and a nearly vertical slope. Most slopes a horse can climb.
* Horses should not lose their tack or barding when they flee or on disconnect.
That stuff is attached with straps. Lots of them. Does our armor fall off when we die? Do random bits of fluff miraculously dissapear? There is no way tack and barding designed for hard riding or war would fall off because a horse runs through brush. The only way for that stuff to get off is for someone to take it off and most horses are smart enough to not allow that. A warhorse would sooner kill a man than let someone besides his rider or stablehands mess with his tack. It was still risky for the stablehands too.
* Horses should be capable of customized appearances.
We already have a system in place for hair. Why not apply that system to a horse's mane and tail since that is hair too? In horse shows, clipping a pattern into the horse's blanket (the back and rear) is pretty common. With a pair of clippers, let riders clip patterns into the horse's blanket such as checkerboards, stripes, or whatever else. I'm sure the GMs can think of something.
Currently, the paladin-only "ability" is really an ability that should be open to all guilds but is artificially restricted to make it "special." Even though I am a paladin, I find this unacceptable. Here are some suggestions for the bond and other matters concerning horse combat.
* Anyone can bond with their horse.
A bond is something that all horses do with their riders regardless of guild through interaction. Its a matter of personality and familiarity, not training. The mundane bond we currently have should work for all guilds.
* Anyone should be able to obtain the maximum bond in 1 to 2 IG years.
Ask anyone who works with horses and they'll tell you it does not take that much time to bond with a horse. I have a foal from this Spring's birthing season that already runs up to greet me, even though the most work I have done with him is scratch him and give him injections. The current time it takes to bond with a horse is unacceptable, unrealistic, and just annoying. If you want, make charisma a factor in bonding with a horse.
* People should know how their bond is progressing.
Horse bonding is currently the only system that gives its users no clue on what progress has been made. When we increase the bond, we should receive a message similar to "A black horse whinnies appreciatively and turns to nuzzle your cheek." Whenever we hurt the bond, we should receive a message similar to "A black horse shirks away from you as if frightened." Also, by studying a horse we should be able to get a general feel for their attitude towards us as the bond grows. All this blind fumbling is aggrivating to no end, serves no purpose, and has no precedent in the game.
* Warhorses should be resistant to fear and riding horses should spook. Not the other way around.
Currently, a non-paladin's horse is immune to fear. I have a WM friend who got stepped on by a war mammoth while riding his horse and his horse just stood there calmly. Meanwhile, my paladin's warhorse gets skittish around small peccarries for no apparent reason. Anyone who has worked with horses a little bit knows this makes no sense.
Horses are prey animals. They are herbivores, they travel in herds, and their best defense is running away. In fact, one way to check a new foal's health is to come up behind him and tickle his haunches to trigger that prey response. If he tries to shake you off and runs away, that means his instincts and his health are good. Any normal horse, at the first sign of danger, should turn tail and run.
Warhorses are specially trained to reject instinct. Handlers start working them at a very young age and continue to work them for all their life. It was common for a knight to have two horses. One horse he rode for pleasure. The other, his warhorse, came out of the stable only to go to battle, to train, and to patrol the lands. That warhorse knew that everytime it was saddled, it was time to go kill something. Warhorses should be resistant to fear as they are trained to fight when threatened, not run. Instead, we have the opposite.
* The mounted magic penalty should be eliminated.
What is the reasoning behind the magic penalty while mounted? That, somehow, riding a horse messes with the gestures? That your feet need to touch the ground to cast spells? Well, then sitting down or swimming should interfere with the gestures and I guess whenever someone levitates or rides a ship, they can't touch the mana. The mounted magic penalty needs to be deleted. It serves no purpose except to penalize people who want to ride horses for no real reason.
I think people riding a horse into battle should receive a bonus due to height advantage but that's not neccessary.
* Anyone can bond with their horse.
A bond is something that all horses do with their riders regardless of guild through interaction. Its a matter of personality and familiarity, not training. The mundane bond we currently have should work for all guilds.
* Anyone should be able to obtain the maximum bond in 1 to 2 IG years.
Ask anyone who works with horses and they'll tell you it does not take that much time to bond with a horse. I have a foal from this Spring's birthing season that already runs up to greet me, even though the most work I have done with him is scratch him and give him injections. The current time it takes to bond with a horse is unacceptable, unrealistic, and just annoying. If you want, make charisma a factor in bonding with a horse.
* People should know how their bond is progressing.
Horse bonding is currently the only system that gives its users no clue on what progress has been made. When we increase the bond, we should receive a message similar to "A black horse whinnies appreciatively and turns to nuzzle your cheek." Whenever we hurt the bond, we should receive a message similar to "A black horse shirks away from you as if frightened." Also, by studying a horse we should be able to get a general feel for their attitude towards us as the bond grows. All this blind fumbling is aggrivating to no end, serves no purpose, and has no precedent in the game.
* Warhorses should be resistant to fear and riding horses should spook. Not the other way around.
Currently, a non-paladin's horse is immune to fear. I have a WM friend who got stepped on by a war mammoth while riding his horse and his horse just stood there calmly. Meanwhile, my paladin's warhorse gets skittish around small peccarries for no apparent reason. Anyone who has worked with horses a little bit knows this makes no sense.
Horses are prey animals. They are herbivores, they travel in herds, and their best defense is running away. In fact, one way to check a new foal's health is to come up behind him and tickle his haunches to trigger that prey response. If he tries to shake you off and runs away, that means his instincts and his health are good. Any normal horse, at the first sign of danger, should turn tail and run.
Warhorses are specially trained to reject instinct. Handlers start working them at a very young age and continue to work them for all their life. It was common for a knight to have two horses. One horse he rode for pleasure. The other, his warhorse, came out of the stable only to go to battle, to train, and to patrol the lands. That warhorse knew that everytime it was saddled, it was time to go kill something. Warhorses should be resistant to fear as they are trained to fight when threatened, not run. Instead, we have the opposite.
* The mounted magic penalty should be eliminated.
What is the reasoning behind the magic penalty while mounted? That, somehow, riding a horse messes with the gestures? That your feet need to touch the ground to cast spells? Well, then sitting down or swimming should interfere with the gestures and I guess whenever someone levitates or rides a ship, they can't touch the mana. The mounted magic penalty needs to be deleted. It serves no purpose except to penalize people who want to ride horses for no real reason.
I think people riding a horse into battle should receive a bonus due to height advantage but that's not neccessary.
One other thing... the current mounted combat system.
Right now, mounted combat works like brawling with the exception that you can not tank your balance below solid. This is rather cheap. Mounted combat should have its own bonuses and penalties without ripping off another system. Bonuses might be harder hits due to height and a tendency to strike the upper body of an opponent while they tend to strike your lower body. Penalties might be decreased MO and evasion as you can not move around as much.
Right now, mounted combat works like brawling with the exception that you can not tank your balance below solid. This is rather cheap. Mounted combat should have its own bonuses and penalties without ripping off another system. Bonuses might be harder hits due to height and a tendency to strike the upper body of an opponent while they tend to strike your lower body. Penalties might be decreased MO and evasion as you can not move around as much.
As I already posted, the currently paladin-only ability is something that should be open to all guilds. Instead, paladins should have something truely unique with their horses that does not penalize other guilds. Re-Introducing the Divine Bond.
The paladin takes his warhorse and a favor orb of his patron deity on a quest to ask the gods to imbue his mount with their grace. The favor orb determines which deity's positive aspect blesses the mount. Besides altering the horse's appearance with an extra line of text that suits the deity asked, it has the following effects depending on bond strength.
* A divine horse automatically has full mundane bond.
It could be going on a quest with the paladin. It could be the mount's enhanced intelligence realizing who his partner is. It could be divine will saying "You! Work with that guy!" In any case, a divine mount has the maximum mundane bond with his rider. Instead, the paladin works on a new divine bond that is a combination of circle, charisma, soul state, and working with the horse.
* A divine horse is stronger, hardier, faster, and smarter.
With the blessings of the deity, the horse receives a boost to all stats. It is the cream of the equine crop. The strength of the divine bond determines the strength of the boost.
* A divine horse is resistant to fear.
Charged with protecting and assisting the paladin by the gods, the divine horse resists any attempts to shake it from this path. Depending on the strength of the divine bond, a divine horse is less likely or immune altogether to spooking.
* A paladin can call his divine horse to his side.
As their fates are permanently linked, the paladin can summon his horse to him. The steed will make his way to the paladin regardless of what obstacles lie between them, including stable doors. Fortunately, most stablehands know well enough that when a paladin's mount starts trying to get through the door, its best to let them out before they break something. The strength of the divine bond determines the range of the ability. Of course, some obstacles still bar the horse from entering so the Call will not work in any area that is not horse-friendly so the horse will appear at the nearest horse-friendly room.
* A divine horse is blessed.
Thanks to the power invested in them by the gods, a horse's attacks count as blessed and can strike corporeal or incorporeal undead. At first, this offers no bonus to damage. However, as the divine bond increases in strength, so does the power in the horse so damage increases too.
* A divine horse assists his rider.
Whenever the paladin is stunned, knocked down, or dead, the horse assists him. If the paladin is currently mounted, the horse rides off to safety. If the paladin is dismounted, the horse drags him to safety. If a real horse has enough strength to grab someone by the shoulder, lift him off the ground, and shake until his shoulder breaks, a horse has enough strength to drag a paladin. Especially if that horse is stronger, hardier, and smarter than usual.
* A paladin shares spells with his divine mount.
All beneficial spells the paladin casts on himself such as Courage, Divine Armor, and Anti Stun work on his mount at the same time. Other beneficial spells may work as well if the GM wants... harmful spells do not share, however.
* With time, a divine horse and his paladin almost becomes one entity.
Nearing the height of their bond, the paladin and divine horse come to understand each other fully. They anticipate one another's actions and are reacting before they know it. As a result, the paladin suffers no penalties when mounted as the horse compensates for him. The bonuses are also increased as they compliment each other's fighting styles.
The paladin takes his warhorse and a favor orb of his patron deity on a quest to ask the gods to imbue his mount with their grace. The favor orb determines which deity's positive aspect blesses the mount. Besides altering the horse's appearance with an extra line of text that suits the deity asked, it has the following effects depending on bond strength.
* A divine horse automatically has full mundane bond.
It could be going on a quest with the paladin. It could be the mount's enhanced intelligence realizing who his partner is. It could be divine will saying "You! Work with that guy!" In any case, a divine mount has the maximum mundane bond with his rider. Instead, the paladin works on a new divine bond that is a combination of circle, charisma, soul state, and working with the horse.
* A divine horse is stronger, hardier, faster, and smarter.
With the blessings of the deity, the horse receives a boost to all stats. It is the cream of the equine crop. The strength of the divine bond determines the strength of the boost.
* A divine horse is resistant to fear.
Charged with protecting and assisting the paladin by the gods, the divine horse resists any attempts to shake it from this path. Depending on the strength of the divine bond, a divine horse is less likely or immune altogether to spooking.
* A paladin can call his divine horse to his side.
As their fates are permanently linked, the paladin can summon his horse to him. The steed will make his way to the paladin regardless of what obstacles lie between them, including stable doors. Fortunately, most stablehands know well enough that when a paladin's mount starts trying to get through the door, its best to let them out before they break something. The strength of the divine bond determines the range of the ability. Of course, some obstacles still bar the horse from entering so the Call will not work in any area that is not horse-friendly so the horse will appear at the nearest horse-friendly room.
* A divine horse is blessed.
Thanks to the power invested in them by the gods, a horse's attacks count as blessed and can strike corporeal or incorporeal undead. At first, this offers no bonus to damage. However, as the divine bond increases in strength, so does the power in the horse so damage increases too.
* A divine horse assists his rider.
Whenever the paladin is stunned, knocked down, or dead, the horse assists him. If the paladin is currently mounted, the horse rides off to safety. If the paladin is dismounted, the horse drags him to safety. If a real horse has enough strength to grab someone by the shoulder, lift him off the ground, and shake until his shoulder breaks, a horse has enough strength to drag a paladin. Especially if that horse is stronger, hardier, and smarter than usual.
* A paladin shares spells with his divine mount.
All beneficial spells the paladin casts on himself such as Courage, Divine Armor, and Anti Stun work on his mount at the same time. Other beneficial spells may work as well if the GM wants... harmful spells do not share, however.
* With time, a divine horse and his paladin almost becomes one entity.
Nearing the height of their bond, the paladin and divine horse come to understand each other fully. They anticipate one another's actions and are reacting before they know it. As a result, the paladin suffers no penalties when mounted as the horse compensates for him. The bonuses are also increased as they compliment each other's fighting styles.
Some very good ideas, and some bad. I don't see it fitting into Empathic theory for them to have a horse that fights. I'm not sure how you control it so that the horse isnt doing everything for the player, will the horses skill be based on the player? In which case isn't it more like a familar than a horse? If the horse becomes insanely overpowered and not limited with the time it takes to bond, nearly everyone would have one. There would be no reason not to, it would be an ally that would help you overtrain and keep you alive. Realism in this game is limited, but to keep it close, which it seems to me that you want to do, you would also have to limit who can get a horse. Yoemen really didn't need or couldn't afford a horse. Many people were poor and borrowed from the nobles' stable or just plain didn't have a horse at all. How do you account for that? I rather not see an explosion of horses in DR, to me that would bring about tremendous lag and well ruin the experience I have with my horse. I would be against giving horse combat/bonding to other guilds unless we would be able to get another ability to compensate for our losses. Many Paladin skills are being given to other guilds already. I would like to keep something that makes a Paladin truely great. (Although I love being a Paladin and wouldn't change in a minute) However. I do agree that things should be opened up, like how the jousting is, even though in real life only Knights could joust. (Then again I need the competition.) Also reading your suggestions and looking at it from a programmers point of view (or at least my programming point of view) it would be extremely fun to code, but then again I love coding possibly more than some of the GMs.(That I can't say for certain.) Just answer this question for me. Right now horses are limited, and only benefit a few people other than roleplaying. Are you adovacting a combat horse for everyone, knowing the horses right now aren't hard to get? If not, what would you suggest to limit horses so that your changes would be better accepted by those of us who have spent a lot of RL time bonding the horse?
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
I've been trying to bond with my horse since I got it so I do know, to some extent, what you are going through. Its obnoxious. I also recall all the complaints about how hard it was to bond and how we really have no idea of what works or doesn't. Also, if you look at the bond right now, it is also a paladin-only disadvantage.
Non-paladin horses never get spooked in battle, as I pointed out with my WM friend. He gets squished by a war mammoth and his horse doesn't flinch. My horse was fighting small peccarries and starts getting spooked. Only paladin warhorses can get spooked, run off, and wind up costing us dozens of plats in tack and barding, some of which is irreplacable.
Insanely overpowered? That would be a game balance decision. Besides, if I recall, it is not bond experience that determines warhorse power but the warhorse's experience. If you are really worried about a time investment, then let people who want warhorses purchase foals and raise them like a ranger raises an animal companion (takes at least two IG years for a foal to mature). Since warhorses were trained at a young age to supress their instinct, this makes some sense. Then you have to backtrain your horse to get him up to your combat ability. Then only the really commited have their warhorses... but that sounds like a real hassle. More of a hassle than may be worth it.
Did you not read the "Horse Suggestions - Paladin" thread since you replied to it? In exchange for opening up the horse system so that it works like it should for everyone, paladins can quest for a divinely bonded warhorse that is everything we have now and more.
Oh, I forgot another ability of the Divine Bond.
* A paladin can sacrifice a favor to bring his steed back from the Void.
I remember numerous empaths and clerics saying they refused to heal or raise horses. Let the paladins use Alamhif's Gift, which has a circle 20 requirement that matches with the requirement to get a horse, to bring their horses back. Sacrifice a favor so that the horse can 'depart.'
Non-paladin horses never get spooked in battle, as I pointed out with my WM friend. He gets squished by a war mammoth and his horse doesn't flinch. My horse was fighting small peccarries and starts getting spooked. Only paladin warhorses can get spooked, run off, and wind up costing us dozens of plats in tack and barding, some of which is irreplacable.
Insanely overpowered? That would be a game balance decision. Besides, if I recall, it is not bond experience that determines warhorse power but the warhorse's experience. If you are really worried about a time investment, then let people who want warhorses purchase foals and raise them like a ranger raises an animal companion (takes at least two IG years for a foal to mature). Since warhorses were trained at a young age to supress their instinct, this makes some sense. Then you have to backtrain your horse to get him up to your combat ability. Then only the really commited have their warhorses... but that sounds like a real hassle. More of a hassle than may be worth it.
Did you not read the "Horse Suggestions - Paladin" thread since you replied to it? In exchange for opening up the horse system so that it works like it should for everyone, paladins can quest for a divinely bonded warhorse that is everything we have now and more.
Oh, I forgot another ability of the Divine Bond.
* A paladin can sacrifice a favor to bring his steed back from the Void.
I remember numerous empaths and clerics saying they refused to heal or raise horses. Let the paladins use Alamhif's Gift, which has a circle 20 requirement that matches with the requirement to get a horse, to bring their horses back. Sacrifice a favor so that the horse can 'depart.'
Is your horse getting spooked often? Mine never flinches in combat, she fights next to me in thugs without a problem. The only time i have seen her run is when we were on a roof but i am not sure what made her flee as there were no creatures around and it was a safe area.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
~Tonet, yours in life and death, for need or want.
