I'm kind of genuinely amused that of all the things to get up in arms about in DR, pet boxes is the one ruffling feathers... for some reason. I think I get it. When you're used to having a convenient and easy method of racking up risk-free tdps, it's hard to let that go... even if the other available avenues for training locksmithing (one of which is simply disarming and picking at level and doesn't involve MT or B&E) are all perfectly reasonable.

I am very glad that this, frankly silly, method of training has been shot. It always seemed like an unintentional system exploit to me. I'd be pleased to see the same thing happen to pet bleeders, too.

Is this accurate? If you fixed the "problem" with advanced boxes teaching experience, why are at-level boxes teaching so little? This was from an orc bandit, which should be at-level according to the ranks, the appraisal, and the wiki. Similarly, my newbie character couldn't get to ML after picking 11 boxes from goblins. This is way, way too lopsided, when I can quickly ML in skinning from less than a dozen critters 300 ranks above my skinning level, while far rarer boxes at level barely move my mindstate. And no, I can't do BnE, since I'm a Paladin. Any suggestions, or do I have to purchase a box trainer?

s> pick ident

You think this lock is precisely at your skill level.
Roundtime: 7 sec.

sR> experience

Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Perception: 265 18% learning (3/34) Locksmithing: 250 71% thoughtful (4/34)

sR> [pick]: pi q

You deftly remove a lockpick from the lockpick ring and begin to work at quickly picking open the caddy.
With a soft click, you remove your lockpick and open and remove the lock.
You return your lockpick to the lockpick ring.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

sR> experience

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Perception: 265 18% learning (3/34) Locksmithing: 250 71% thinking (5/34)

I'm with Hanryu on this. The box drop rate IMO needs to be upped. I rarely go hunting critters that drop boxes, because they don't drop boxes enough in my opinion.

I relie on B&E and the keepsake boxes I find to train locksmithing.

Bluefalcon

B&E in one of the rooms, a random search/find item are keepsake boxes. They train lockpicking. Each keepsake box you can pick 35 times. Basically a mind lock status. Not sure how much they sell for in prime, but they are found with the break/entering system. Just ask around about the boxes in game. Its about all I can suggest.

Dalkin/Jim

>get box from wrist pouch

You come out of hiding.

You get a small haon keepsake box inlaid with shards of moss agate from inside your wrist pouch.

>app my box
>
You wonder if the keepsake box might weigh a few tens of stones.
You are certain that the keepsake box is worth exactly 5000 Lirums.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

>l my box
The jagged shards of moss agate are arranged to form the crest of House Verille on the box's lid. A small gold lock keeps the box's contents secure inside.
>

>study my box
You're certain you can LOCK, PICK a small haon keepsake box inlaid with shards of moss agate.
You believe the keepsake box could be picked 30 more times before the wear would risk breaking the lock.

>lock my box
You quickly lock the keepsake box and pocket the key.

>exp

Circle: 105
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Inner Magic: 377 69% learning (3/34) Augmentation: 338 54% learning (3/34)
Appraisal: 348 02% dabbling (1/34)


Total Ranks Displayed: 1063
Time Development Points: 304 Favors: 6 Deaths: 107 Departs: 25
Rested EXP Stored: 7:59 hours Usable This Cycle: 5:11 hours Cycle Refreshes: 3:34 hours
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

>pick my box with my lock
You set about picking your keepsake box. With a faint CLICK it opens.
Roundtime: 10 seconds

>exp

Circle: 105
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Inner Magic: 377 69% learning (3/34) Augmentation: 338 54% learning (3/34)
Locksmithing: 512 35% dabbling (1/34)

Total Ranks Displayed: 1227
Time Development Points: 304 Favors: 6 Deaths: 107 Departs: 25
Rested EXP Stored: 7:59 hours Usable This Cycle: 5:11 hours Cycle Refreshes: 3:34 hours
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

>lock my box
You quickly lock the keepsake box and pocket the key.

>pick my box with my lock
You set about picking your keepsake box. With a faint CLICK it opens.
Roundtime: 10 seconds

>exp

Circle: 105
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Inner Magic: 377 69% learning (3/34) Augmentation: 338 54% learning (3/34)
Locksmithing: 512 35% perusing (2/34)

Total Ranks Displayed: 1227
Time Development Points: 304 Favors: 6 Deaths: 107 Departs: 25
Rested EXP Stored: 7:59 hours Usable This Cycle: 5:11 hours Cycle Refreshes: 3:34 hours
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information

>lock my box
You quickly lock the keepsake box and pocket the key.

>pick my box with my lock
You set about picking your keepsake box. With a faint CLICK it opens.
Roundtime: 10 seconds

>study my box
You're certain you can LOCK, PICK a small haon keepsake box inlaid with shards of moss agate.
You believe the keepsake box could be picked 27 more times before the wear would risk breaking the lock.



The keepsake boxes all have 35 uses. Not sure what they sell for on the market. I keep all the ones I find just incase I'm hunting something that doesn't drop boxes. At least that way I can keep lockpicking moving. Or if I'm not near a clan/town to where I can do B&E. It works. Just an option. Not sure if they are sold at trader markets or not, or if you know someone that does plunder that whenever they nab a keepsake box, see if they will give it to you, or buy it off them. Win win all around?

Dalkin/Jim

You know. I had a really snippy comment back to your sarcasm, but its not worth the words I was going to say. I guess if it don't make you happy, you can always close your account and go play GS4. I don't know what else to tell you. Seriously. I gave valid IC ways to get some keepsake boxes, and your on an OOC tangent. Sorry this doesn't fit your way of RP, everyone RP's in a different way. But your sarcasm seriously wasn't needed. I hope your day gets better and your mood brightens so your not so....cranky. Have a wonderful afternoon!

Dalkin/Jim

>>>"No other system rewards failure so generously. It is not intended that deliberate failure be a viable -- much less optimal -- training method."

R> experience

Circle: 120
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction

Skinning: 451 49% rapt (30/34) Tactics: 509 56% focused (20/34)

> skin

You hideously bungle the attempt, destroying the wyvern's corpse in a laughable display of sheer incompetence.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

> experience

Circle: 120
Showing all skills with field experience.

SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction

Skinning: 451 49% nearly locked (33/34) Tactics: 509 56% focused (20/34)


Wat?

Nice job trying to equate collecting the spoils of combat with the spoils of burglary. I guess skinning and coin collecting should be taken from us as well

I'll check it out, thanks. I'll be happy if I can find boxes that train at least a decent amount, considering the risk and rarity associated with them

>>>I didn't say anything about burglary. What is it you think you're opening...?

A locked box. What's your point, exactly? That it's out of character for Paladins to search through creatures they kill and collect loot?

I feel like I'm an outlier here versus most peoples experiences, but I've pretty much solely trained locksmithing on boxes and do well. I don't track stats as well as some, but did some spot checking. The last time I counted box drops in cabalists I got 9 out of 12 critters killed. I'm presuming the actual drop chance is lower but I always come away with enough boxes to learn. I don't fail traps or end up with box death if I'm conservative with my disarm speed. I did have a couple fails when I moved to cabs, so I adjusted my speeds to be even more conservative carefully disarming some boxes that were IDing on the easy end. If I have a lot of boxes after a trip I just disarm and a pick, if I have fewer I also harvest.

I get a reasonable number of keepsake boxes burgling (they are in the bedroom) so I keep a couple on hand just in case I run out of critter boxes and throw the rest on my guild donation shelf.

Jalika

>>I don't think it has much to do with scripts because the removal of good locks exp followed the release of unlimited lockpick trainers during a few of the microtrans events.

I'm not sure if that's supposed to be better or worse

>>If it makes you feel better, we've recently seen skinning trainers released also, so I expect they will fix the skinning exp bug you posted in the same way now.

How ridiculous. Magical climbing ropes, locksmith trainers, and now skinning trainers? Pretty soon we'll have to train every outdoor activity at home

>>How ridiculous. Magical climbing ropes, locksmith trainers, and now skinning trainers? Pretty soon we'll have to train every outdoor activity at home

no one's forcing you to do that... not sure why this is impacting your life..

>>A locked box. What's your point, exactly? That it's out of character for Paladins to search through creatures they kill and collect loot?

I think the OP was trying to point out to you that in B&E you're just stealing stuff.. while you think it's somehow better that in character, you take it a step further and murder the owner of the box before opening it.. you're still working locks on stolen goods.

Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.

>It is if we're being pushed towards it as the only viable means of training a skill

>Killing evil, aggressive, homicidal creatures like orcs and gargoyles is murder now?

It's fairly clear that you have no sense of nuance, and really just want the game to conform to how you think it should be, RP be damned, so enjoy screaming into the wind.

---

TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh

I personally don't see the point of using trainers. You get experience but no value other tan tdp's. Paladins have unique problems now. You guys have to stand around in combat and train all that armor stuff. We barbs just go in and kill and collect a lot of boxes. I normally get about 50 by the end of the day. The gem pouches have progressed to 200 plat per as I have moved up the hunting ladder. Every where I read it is consistent, Paladins a lot of GM love. Kill more get more boxes but a lot less armor skill. Hang in there. Paladins will get fixed right after crafting is completed.

>>>For what it's worth, I think that failed attempts to disarm a trapped box should grant somewhat generous exp since it's a pretty risky activity.

Yep, compare that to bungling a skinning attempt on a critter far above my skinning level, gives me roughly twice as much exp ask actually popping a box. And it can only take seconds to find and kill a skinnable critter. Mush safer, too

>>>That's what I mean though. I was just disarming boxes reading this, so checked script length. 6 minutes to lock, and as usual no blown traps.

6 minutes is about how long it can take me to pick a box sometimes lol If I identify the traps and the locks, and the lock identification sometimes gets stubborn. I'm usually around 4-5 minutes per box, and I often lop a hand off or get fire ants, the only 2 traps I seem to blow. Then it's off to the Empaths before I continue. I tried harvesting, but it takes even longer than either disarm or pick. It's a real hassle for me. I'm gonna try dumping a lot of TDPs into agility since I remember reading that's the stat that affects locksmithing. I don't have anything to boost the skill or agility with magic, unfortunately

>>ASALDIERNA: If you fixed the "problem" with advanced boxes teaching experience, why are at-level boxes teaching so little?

One consideration in determining how much experience to award for boxes is the fact that they pay out very generously (in comparison to B&E or coins and gems that are simply dropped with no additional risk to acquire).

That being said, while most players prefer breaking and entering for experience, disarming and picking at-level boxes should still be a viable way to train locksmithing.


>>And no, I can't do BnE, since I'm a Paladin. Any suggestions, or do I have to purchase a box trainer?

Paladins (and anyone who doesn't want to burgle for RP reasons) who want to train locksmithing should pick at-level boxes.

Locksmithing trainers are also an alternative, although we want subscribers to have the option of progressing up the locksmithing ladder (and indeed all training ladders) on their own, without the use of quest prizes.

Keep in mind that if you do opt to use a locksmithing trainer instead of opening boxes, you will be missing out on loot.


>>the eventual successful attempt that also teaches less

Just to clarify: We did not adjust the experience awarded for successfully picking at-level boxes, the success rate of opening a box, or the difficulty modifiers (pick blind, wearing armor, etc.). We only adjusted the experience award for:
1. failing to pick a box
2. bonus experience only (the core experience award remains the same) for critical success on an exceptionally difficult box (when you "accidentally" open a box that grossly outclasses you)


>>DRSCOTT: For what it's worth, I think that failed attempts to disarm a trapped box should grant somewhat generous exp since it's a pretty risky activity.

Disarming experience was not touched at all. Failing to disarm sufficiently challenging boxes should still award experience. (As you noted, the risk that comes with botching disarming adequately discourages deliberately failing to disarm boxes as a training technique.)


>>ASALDIERNA: GMs hobbling the training system in an attempt to keep the superscripters under control

This was less about controlling "super scripters" and more about encouraging more sensible engagement with the locksmithing system, which previously made deliberate failure the optimal training technique.


>>SAUVA: the removal of good locks exp followed the release of unlimited lockpick trainers during a few of the microtrans events.

If our goal were to encourage people to buy locksmithing trainers, we wouldn't have released breaking and entering.

---

GM Cordulia

>>GRIM45: FWIW, I think the calculation for what is considered "at level" and what is considered "grossly outclassed" and thus awards actual 0 bits of exp is off. I've got 0 exp for failing to pick things that ID as "precisely at your skill level" multiple times.

I'll take a look and discuss with the team to see if we need to adjust what constitutes an "at level" box. However, it's worth noting that even if your box is in the "at level" range, failing to pick the box will still only grant a tiny fraction of the experience that successfully opening it would have granted.

---

GM Cordulia

>>>Sounds like you need to drop down a box tier. And/or when you plan on popping boxes, ask a Moon Mage to cast Machinist's Touch, or a Ranger to cast Hands of Lirisa or a Bard to play Drums of the Snake for you.

I'll try that, though the onyx gargoyle boxes you suggested, which was a big help in procuring boxes quickly, always appraise a 1 or 2 levels above "precisely at skill level", which the orc bandit boxes always appraised at skill level + or - level occasionally.