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Likely discussed before and I couldn't find the thread.
99/100 of the people I've come across in DR are hunting solo. My brother and I have almost no incentive to hunt together since trying to coordinate our experience is a big hassle, and any larger creatures are not worth the risk. Hunting solo is more effective for both of us, and seemingly 99% of the players I've come across. The group hunting I've seen is at low levels (< rock trolls), and during the rare invasion.
A shared experience system where each party member gets some % of skills used in combat, adjusted for by circle and maybe primary/secondary/tertiary sets, would make it much better. I suppose it might be impossible, or group combat is not a big priority right now, and I'm barking up the wrong tree. Though honestly, it's a pretty big bummer for us.
Simple example (warning I can't maths and don't know EXP system details):
Circle modifier is a straight division by circle modified by skillset level.
So exp for a player in party of 2 would be: exp x (player1 circle / total circle of party) x (skillset level modifier of trained skill , 50% for tertiary, 100% for secondary, 150% for primary).
If player 1 is a ranger and his equal level Moonmage partner casts TKT for 100 TM exp, ranger gets 25 of TM xp (100 x .5 x .5), while Moonmage gets 75 of TM XP ( 100 x .5 x 1.5)
RP is basically you're manuevering/fighting together so you would learn part of a skill your partner uses in combat through that teamwork.
> I'd take it a step further and say that it's not just 'no incentive', it's 'active penalty' for group hunting.
I'd buy that. Even quests, which are group experiences by their very nature, seem to discourage two people in the same room. The exception may be the prison quests if you can get the levels just right and flood the area with AOE buff/debuff/tm spells.
The people who hunt in groups do it for the social aspect, and not for training efficiency generally. Teaching, healing, and spawn mules notwithstanding.
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As a Bard player, I find there is JUST enough incentive for me to group hunt occasionally with close friends. There's the teaching in addition to providing group buffs, and maybe getting buffed in return. I also hunt with a WM a fair amount, and Fissure is great for both of us.
But still, that's a pretty niche situation. I can see why most people would not find it worthwhile, especially given the extreme scroll. I'm all for anything that would make group hunting more viable.
The best would be:
- Reduce scroll
- More group abilities that help us take on larger foes -- tactical maneuvers, mana sharing, etc.
- Some attention to the exp issue
- Some QOL upgrades to skinning and looting
But still, that's a pretty niche situation. I can see why most people would not find it worthwhile, especially given the extreme scroll. I'm all for anything that would make group hunting more viable.
The best would be:
- Reduce scroll
- More group abilities that help us take on larger foes -- tactical maneuvers, mana sharing, etc.
- Some attention to the exp issue
- Some QOL upgrades to skinning and looting
Oh man, I like this idea of group hunting. I'd give it diminishing returns though based on the number of people in your group.. and instead of making it circle based I'd recommend making the formula based on the skill itself (since circles don't really mean much.)
Upgrades to skin and loot would be nice as well.. maybe make it so that everyone can skin and loot each creature. Maybe instead of "hide" it can be a "piece of <creature> hide", so it isn't worth as much as a full hide but you can make more in the end by killing more. This would also be great for invasions.
Sharing maneuvers and mana would be a lot of fun as well.
> Oh man, I like this idea of group hunting. I'd give it diminishing returns though based on the number of people in your group.. and instead of making it circle based I'd recommend making the formula based on the skill itself (since circles don't really mean much.)
I'd rather see a hunting area with creatures well beyond cap, or that lowered your effective ability in all skills to an arbitrary cap. You have to hunt in groups if you expect to kill them.
On the other side, they teach very well.
>>I'd rather see a hunting area with creatures well beyond cap, or that lowered your effective ability in all skills to an arbitrary cap. You have to hunt in groups if you expect to kill them.
This is kinda/sorta how flex bosses work on quests.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
This is kinda/sorta how flex bosses work on quests.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
> This is kinda/sorta how flex bosses work on quests.
That's what I'm thinking, but better AI and much more deadly. Perfect groups would have a paladin (or a few armor secondaries), an empath, at least one debilitator/support (bard, empath, moon mage, etc...), and a few nukers. Imperfect groups are doable, but they'll take more trips to town. High quality crafted armor and weapons are assumed. The deeper you go into the area, the harder it is and higher the reward.
> there's virtually no reason not to, putting aside the various ways many guukds can benefit hunting partners.
Cons:
* The scroll makes it hard to read.
* It requires coordination for training defenses, skinning, and sometimes weapons.
* You need to coordinate loot, such as who gets the rarer stuff and who is taking the boxes.
* You need to be roughly the same level or the higher level will be babysitting the lower level/taking all of the spawns.
* Engagements are more difficult to manage (At least one group-hunting trip left me advancing on several mobs that ended up dying by time I hit melee)
Benefits:
* Group buffs.
* Better spawns* (better is subjective, and more spawns may not be a good thing or noticeable when shared).
* Teaching (now limited to only combat skills, which you probably won't have a hard time locking anyway if hunting at level - training stealth messes with this)
If I'm not missing anything, it seems that the hassle, randomness in training, and potential frustration of group hunting seem to far outweigh the benefits.
> Also the specific group roles you outlibed volc isnt really how Dr works. We don't need to rebuild wow in an effort to encourage group hunting.
Fair enough, but there is a reason this model has worked in practically every MMO game from the last decade. There's an incentive, in roles you can't easily mule out/bot, to encourage group activity. Hard division of labor and situations you can't complete on your own seem the most obvious, but I don't think anyone is saying that other ideas couldn't be explored.
>>I am always surprised at how unwilling people are to hunt in groups.there's virtually no reason not to, putting aside the various ways many guukds can benefit hunting partners.
IMO, group hunting is super messy.
I 100% love how Plat's quest group can take down quest boss mobs incredibly easy now that we have our super duper boss takedown tactic, but sustaining that for long term combat would be a huge mental drain.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IMO, group hunting is super messy.
I 100% love how Plat's quest group can take down quest boss mobs incredibly easy now that we have our super duper boss takedown tactic, but sustaining that for long term combat would be a huge mental drain.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>Fair enough, but there is a reason this model has worked in practically every MMO game from the last decade. There's an incentive, in roles you can't easily mule out/bot, to encourage group activity. Hard division of labor and situations you can't complete on your own seem the most obvious, but I don't think anyone is saying that other ideas couldn't be explored.
AFAIK, most of those other MMOs that have teamwork work out incredibly well also tend to make going solo rather frustrating. The incentive is less "yay teamwork" and more "because you want to actually win"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AFAIK, most of those other MMOs that have teamwork work out incredibly well also tend to make going solo rather frustrating. The incentive is less "yay teamwork" and more "because you want to actually win"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>AFAIK, most of those other MMOs that have teamwork work out incredibly well also tend to make going solo rather frustrating. The incentive is less "yay teamwork" and more "because you want to actually win"
Not really. Modern MMO design is centered around a single player leveling experience, with occasional or frequent trips to group oriented combat like PvP sessions or dungeons.
The days of 'LFG 3 more grind turtles' for leveling are behind us.
Not really. Modern MMO design is centered around a single player leveling experience, with occasional or frequent trips to group oriented combat like PvP sessions or dungeons.
The days of 'LFG 3 more grind turtles' for leveling are behind us.
> AFAIK, most of those other MMOs that have teamwork work out incredibly well also tend to make going solo rather frustrating. The incentive is less "yay teamwork" and more "because you want to actually win"
That's honestly what I'm suggesting for very high end play or specific encounters (such as a group quest). Not only is it a natural barrier to progression, but it encourages the MU in MUD. Obviously the entire game can't work this way, but having a high risk/high reward scenario that specifically encourage group activities seems to be a good direction. And by group, I don't mean you run off and solve this puzzle while I stay here and solve this puzzle while joemage goes hunting.
>>Not really. Modern MMO design is centered around a single player leveling experience, with occasional or frequent trips to group oriented combat like PvP sessions or dungeons.
That sounds more like quests and other instanced things, which is fine by me.
>>And by group, I don't mean you run off and solve this puzzle while I stay here and solve this puzzle while joemage goes hunting.
That's a shame, because I like that kind of quest setup. Non-combat people having the ability to do non-combat things while combat people doing their combat things, etc. BtB is a great example of that kind of quest IMO, even though it leans a lot more toward combat.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
That sounds more like quests and other instanced things, which is fine by me.
>>And by group, I don't mean you run off and solve this puzzle while I stay here and solve this puzzle while joemage goes hunting.
That's a shame, because I like that kind of quest setup. Non-combat people having the ability to do non-combat things while combat people doing their combat things, etc. BtB is a great example of that kind of quest IMO, even though it leans a lot more toward combat.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
> I am always surprised at how unwilling people are to hunt in groups.there's virtually no reason not to
There are very good reasons, otherwise you wouldn't see the vast majority of players hunting alone. Not trying to sound like a jerk but players are smart.
As stated before, for my brother and I, coordinating learning is annoying and difficult. Everything else I can handle.
There are very good reasons, otherwise you wouldn't see the vast majority of players hunting alone. Not trying to sound like a jerk but players are smart.
As stated before, for my brother and I, coordinating learning is annoying and difficult. Everything else I can handle.
> Non-combat people having the ability to do non-combat things while combat people doing their combat things, etc.
I'm not opposed to non-combat people not doing combat, nor am I opposed to splitting a large group into sub groups. I just don't think it qualifies as a group activity if everyone is one to a room. I'd even be fine with pairs, frankly. Being overly cautious with spoilers, think of that one quest where everyone has to fight together to progress from one room to another. I think that's great. Or where bosses spawn and everyone has to gang up on them. Also good. (I could see a gladiator like quest here - half the group finds and kills the big guys. Half the group find and disarm traps or collects goodies or solves puzzles to maybe turn on flame throwers or weaken the boss or something. It's works best if you do both in unison.
> BtB is a great example of that kind of quest IMO, even though it leans a lot more toward combat
I still need to do that quest, so I'll get back to you when I've gone through it.
>>Being overly cautious with spoilers, think of that one quest where everyone has to fight together to progress from one room to another.
If you're talking Riot II, that isn't really true. You just have to be killing in any of those rooms to progress. It just happens that the first spot only has two rooms. In my experience, more often than not this means the high levels kill in those two while the others stay in the safe area.
I think the "your critters spawn near you" mechanics are great for quests, but they don't really facilitate group fighting unless the group is all the same skill range.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
If you're talking Riot II, that isn't really true. You just have to be killing in any of those rooms to progress. It just happens that the first spot only has two rooms. In my experience, more often than not this means the high levels kill in those two while the others stay in the safe area.
I think the "your critters spawn near you" mechanics are great for quests, but they don't really facilitate group fighting unless the group is all the same skill range.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
> If you're talking Riot II, that isn't really true. You just have to be killing in any of those rooms to progress.
Fair enough, but my favorite quest experience was joining with another player on the riot quests and clearing the room together. That's the kind of group experience I like. Symbiotic experiences that make both more powerful.
Group combat is... problematic.
The more people hunting, the more difficult it is to respond to the game environment. Additionally, the more coordination of minor things is necessary.
If we want to encourage group hunting, one of the things that should probably go into the design process is mobs having fewer attacks per second.
Tev:
>>I 100% love how Plat's quest group can take down quest boss mobs incredibly easy now that we have our super duper boss takedown tactic, but sustaining that for long term combat would be a huge mental drain.
I find the concept intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter for details.
"Nobody cares about the feasibility of Sidhlot's portrayal of evil. That's not the point. He's older than dragons and so metal he poops viking helmets." - Armifer
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu-proxy R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
The more people hunting, the more difficult it is to respond to the game environment. Additionally, the more coordination of minor things is necessary.
If we want to encourage group hunting, one of the things that should probably go into the design process is mobs having fewer attacks per second.
Tev:
>>I 100% love how Plat's quest group can take down quest boss mobs incredibly easy now that we have our super duper boss takedown tactic, but sustaining that for long term combat would be a huge mental drain.
I find the concept intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter for details.
"Nobody cares about the feasibility of Sidhlot's portrayal of evil. That's not the point. He's older than dragons and so metal he poops viking helmets." - Armifer
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu-proxy R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
You guys know you can squelch other players combat messages right?
Worst case scenario someone engages a critter you're dealing with, and kills it. You miss out on the loot from a single critter. There will be more.
I suppose you could each use the same ammo/throwables. That's solved with STOW MY [weapon], though ammo might be a problem. Share when done.
Most guilds (guukds!) have group buffing that can really help, though, of course, most DR players aren't hunting critters that they need other guilds buffs to survive.
>The days of 'LFG 3 more grind turtles' for leveling are behind us.
Uh, not really - most raids, which constitute end game for most MMOs these days, require lots of players in specific roles.
Worst case scenario someone engages a critter you're dealing with, and kills it. You miss out on the loot from a single critter. There will be more.
I suppose you could each use the same ammo/throwables. That's solved with STOW MY [weapon], though ammo might be a problem. Share when done.
Most guilds (guukds!) have group buffing that can really help, though, of course, most DR players aren't hunting critters that they need other guilds buffs to survive.
>The days of 'LFG 3 more grind turtles' for leveling are behind us.
Uh, not really - most raids, which constitute end game for most MMOs these days, require lots of players in specific roles.
>>I find the concept intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter for details.
Our super duper takedown tactic is essentially "debilitate the mob and aim for the chest". While called shots are a lot harder, it's not that bad if you have one or two people on immobilize/knockdown duty while the others hack away.
We've also had lower level people analyze mobs, shout out the combos, and have higher levels land the hits, but that is more for non-flex mobs that might show up during an invasion.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Our super duper takedown tactic is essentially "debilitate the mob and aim for the chest". While called shots are a lot harder, it's not that bad if you have one or two people on immobilize/knockdown duty while the others hack away.
We've also had lower level people analyze mobs, shout out the combos, and have higher levels land the hits, but that is more for non-flex mobs that might show up during an invasion.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>Our super duper takedown tactic is essentially "debilitate the mob and aim for the chest". While called shots are a lot harder, it's not that bad if you have one or two people on immobilize/knockdown duty while the others hack away.
I kind of figured this was the tactic. Last time I went on any quest with a boss (Tower, Barrier) the 'quest pro' people recommended we use this. So if you've been on a quest recently, you probably used the Plat-tactic!
I kind of figured this was the tactic. Last time I went on any quest with a boss (Tower, Barrier) the 'quest pro' people recommended we use this. So if you've been on a quest recently, you probably used the Plat-tactic!
