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Thanks Alvy.
I would prefer NPC empaths/clerics for small arenas b/c I would imagine if a small arena were built then it's probably going to be placed in a less inhabited area? Therefore less empaths/clerics probably inclined or able to help out.
As for rooms, if it's a small arena 3 rooms would probably be sufficient. We really enjoy 3 room tournaments. (However, for the larger ones it'd be nice to have 5 rooms but to go alot higher would make tournaments rather hard or drawn out since several can't see that "one" remaining person in hiding <coughs enef> so at least with 3-5 we can narrow it down and try to get lucky.
Weapons would be very handy as an option but not an obbligation like SCC. Some people don't want to mess up their "weapon of doom" in a tournament or fear being graved robbed so it'd be a nice option at least. Theoretically speaking, in the current system, what would happen if a person got his right arm blown off and his reshear bow fell to the ground and then he got killed a few seconds later while the bow was on the ground. Would his bow be taken out with him or would it be left in the arena still and possibly lost to him? Just an interesting incident that might need to be considered and weigh heavily on if people would use their own weapons/armor vs items already in stock to be used.
NPC referees would be a nice addition as well, but is that something that would be hard to code? Would the referee prevent use of a spell/ability all together? or would he/she just point out to everybody that "so and so" used an ability that we defined to the ref as illegal?
Thanks for your work for us and keeping in touch.
Player of Pormithius
> What system options would you most like to see in one of this size?
I agree with Pormithius
> How many rooms would ideally suit your needs in a scaled down arena?
3 or 4
> If your only given 1 choice is it pc empath/cleric or npc empath/cleric?
NPC.
> Do you envision a small arena using stock weapons or your own?
I vote stock weapons as an optional restriction. If we want an all-out brawl, then anything goes. However, if you're having something like a low-level competition and only one guy has a capped mistwood with Hele'la arrows, there's going to be an enourmous difference.
> Npc referees or police it yourselves?
I'd say make the referees an option as well. Turn 'em on for some gametypes and off for others. Maybe the refs are the ones that will disqualify you if you violate the rules.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
-Durnil
I agree with Pormithius
> How many rooms would ideally suit your needs in a scaled down arena?
3 or 4
> If your only given 1 choice is it pc empath/cleric or npc empath/cleric?
NPC.
> Do you envision a small arena using stock weapons or your own?
I vote stock weapons as an optional restriction. If we want an all-out brawl, then anything goes. However, if you're having something like a low-level competition and only one guy has a capped mistwood with Hele'la arrows, there's going to be an enourmous difference.
> Npc referees or police it yourselves?
I'd say make the referees an option as well. Turn 'em on for some gametypes and off for others. Maybe the refs are the ones that will disqualify you if you violate the rules.
Thanks for keeping us updated.
-Durnil
<<For discussion purposes let's start off with a small arena, perhaps one that would hold a 2 team competition similar to what you hold on your own in the cemetary. What system options would you most like to see in one of this size? How many rooms would ideally suit your needs in a scaled down arena? If your only given 1 choice is it pc empath/cleric or npc empath/cleric? Do you envision a small arena using stock weapons or your own? Npc referees or police it yourselves?>>
3 rooms will work fine, north mid and south like we use at cem, or 5 in a diamond pattern.
I'd rather have npc empath/clerics IF they work better than the rest in the realms, i.e. take scars, poison etc. They would have to work quickly and well on vitality as well since there's a strong chance they will be bombarded with several unconscious almost-dead fighters at once. This is a problem with SCC last time I checked, if a few people 'die' in the arena at the same time, a few of em bleed out before the npc gets anywhere close to healing them.
Definitely allow non-stock weapons but it'd be nice to have a choice to go with stock.
I'm not sure about referees. On the one hand, it'd be outstanding to have them bust people using inviso and CJs. On the other hand, they'd have to be adaptable, or perhaps could be 'turned off,' since sometimes people will want to go all out and sometimes mechanics changes make us change the rules.
player of Joshuan
3 rooms will work fine, north mid and south like we use at cem, or 5 in a diamond pattern.
I'd rather have npc empath/clerics IF they work better than the rest in the realms, i.e. take scars, poison etc. They would have to work quickly and well on vitality as well since there's a strong chance they will be bombarded with several unconscious almost-dead fighters at once. This is a problem with SCC last time I checked, if a few people 'die' in the arena at the same time, a few of em bleed out before the npc gets anywhere close to healing them.
Definitely allow non-stock weapons but it'd be nice to have a choice to go with stock.
I'm not sure about referees. On the one hand, it'd be outstanding to have them bust people using inviso and CJs. On the other hand, they'd have to be adaptable, or perhaps could be 'turned off,' since sometimes people will want to go all out and sometimes mechanics changes make us change the rules.
player of Joshuan
Why don't we build the Arena system up to where it's barely functional and then leave it to rot like other systems; like horses? Or would it be better if we got these old messed up systems fixed first before embarking on new systems? Just a wild and crazy thought.
OF_Wolf_And_Elf
Off through the new day's mist I run
out from the new day's mist I have come
I hunt
therefore I am
harvest the land
taking of the fallen lamb
OF_Wolf_And_Elf
Off through the new day's mist I run
out from the new day's mist I have come
I hunt
therefore I am
harvest the land
taking of the fallen lamb
Hmm, dejavu. I blame people like you for broken systems, not the GMs. You don't even know how to address the proper GMs who work on the systems you desire to be fixed. Use your energy to come up with constructive posts in the proper folders or I hope the board monitors will start pulling unrelated posts here.
>I blame people like you for broken systems, not the GMs.
I don't work on the systems.
>You don't even know how to address the proper GMs who work on the systems you desire to be fixed. Use your energy to come up with constructive posts in the proper folders
Been there done that (for years). Don't assume you know what and how I have made posts in the past. Thanks
OF_Wolf_And_Elf
Off through the new day's mist I run
out from the new day's mist I have come
I hunt
therefore I am
harvest the land
taking of the fallen lamb
I don't work on the systems.
>You don't even know how to address the proper GMs who work on the systems you desire to be fixed. Use your energy to come up with constructive posts in the proper folders
Been there done that (for years). Don't assume you know what and how I have made posts in the past. Thanks
OF_Wolf_And_Elf
Off through the new day's mist I run
out from the new day's mist I have come
I hunt
therefore I am
harvest the land
taking of the fallen lamb
I think your bitches and moans post would go over alot better in the bitches and moans folder. Just another wild and crazy thought.
___
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne
___
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne
I want to thank all the tourney lovers who have been bringing constructive ideas and comments to the table. It helps alot with design decisions and improvements that can be made on what we have already.
Small arenas wouldn't necessarily be put in out of the way areas since their size allows them to easily be plopped into a congested area. That's not to say one couldn't be put out in the woods so to speak it just gives us options. The whole weapon debate is a consideration again because of the number of rooms it takes to make it work and so on.
I'm not sure if we could make referees quite that detailed from a coding standpoint but this is something I can take to my extremely talented associates who have alot more experience in system resources then I do yet (don't worry I'll get there!).
On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton? Since it was brought up I can see where multiple wounded bodies piling up might overload them but I'm wondering if even sped up they could handle it all.
I'm pondering ways around deaths and such (because your all giving me such great ideas)so please keep the ideas flowing!
GM Alvy
Small arenas wouldn't necessarily be put in out of the way areas since their size allows them to easily be plopped into a congested area. That's not to say one couldn't be put out in the woods so to speak it just gives us options. The whole weapon debate is a consideration again because of the number of rooms it takes to make it work and so on.
I'm not sure if we could make referees quite that detailed from a coding standpoint but this is something I can take to my extremely talented associates who have alot more experience in system resources then I do yet (don't worry I'll get there!).
On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton? Since it was brought up I can see where multiple wounded bodies piling up might overload them but I'm wondering if even sped up they could handle it all.
I'm pondering ways around deaths and such (because your all giving me such great ideas)so please keep the ideas flowing!
GM Alvy
>On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton?
Having used them ... two things. Give them some brains on what they take and let them take vit. Someone who's unconcious from a spar ususally is at around 90% down on vit and has a critical wound. So, if the NPC can grab the vit and heal that crit to the point where its not bleeding right off the bat, that would be the most effective use of an NPC healer.
Having used them ... two things. Give them some brains on what they take and let them take vit. Someone who's unconcious from a spar ususally is at around 90% down on vit and has a critical wound. So, if the NPC can grab the vit and heal that crit to the point where its not bleeding right off the bat, that would be the most effective use of an NPC healer.
<<On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton? Since it was brought up I can see where multiple wounded bodies piling up might overload them but I'm wondering if even sped up they could handle it all.
Would this idea be too far fetched or overpowered? How about having two NPC healing options:
1) Have a special premium service that the NPC empaths offer. It should be a more expensive rate and when you lose in a spar/tournament something grabs your body when the lights go out. It takes 2 minutes and when you come to you find youself in the NPC infirmary completely healed but maybe just lacking vitility. This would lighten the load of the NPC empaths. So basically an auto heal over a 2 minute period offered as a more expensive premium (not estateholder) service offered by the NPCs that is prepaid for.
2) Should one not want to pay for the premium services, there are the regular fees for having the combatants body drug in and healed via normal means. It would be nice to speed up their normal healing means, have them heal themselves less frequently and less breaks, etc. But of course there is a fee to this as well.
3) And for all those not wanting to spend a copper on healing can just get dumped in a good life mana heal room where they could meet other empaths.
Maybe to distinguish between the various services the NPCs could hand out a token before the tournament starts for each specific service. Upon getting beaten into a pulp, the dragger searches your body for a token, if none is found option 3 occurs and if you have a token then you will go to your respective area.
Player of Pormithius
Would this idea be too far fetched or overpowered? How about having two NPC healing options:
1) Have a special premium service that the NPC empaths offer. It should be a more expensive rate and when you lose in a spar/tournament something grabs your body when the lights go out. It takes 2 minutes and when you come to you find youself in the NPC infirmary completely healed but maybe just lacking vitility. This would lighten the load of the NPC empaths. So basically an auto heal over a 2 minute period offered as a more expensive premium (not estateholder) service offered by the NPCs that is prepaid for.
2) Should one not want to pay for the premium services, there are the regular fees for having the combatants body drug in and healed via normal means. It would be nice to speed up their normal healing means, have them heal themselves less frequently and less breaks, etc. But of course there is a fee to this as well.
3) And for all those not wanting to spend a copper on healing can just get dumped in a good life mana heal room where they could meet other empaths.
Maybe to distinguish between the various services the NPCs could hand out a token before the tournament starts for each specific service. Upon getting beaten into a pulp, the dragger searches your body for a token, if none is found option 3 occurs and if you have a token then you will go to your respective area.
Player of Pormithius
>It takes 2 minutes and when you come to you find youself in the NPC infirmary completely healed but maybe just lacking vitility.
Hmmm, even if it didn't take any less time than the other NPCs but when you were dragged into the room you were stabilized. That's really the issue more than speed ... that the NPC has to be fast enough that you don't die on the table, as it were. If, oh, they had special tables even in the NPC room, that stabilized patients so they wouldn't die once put onto them.
Hmmm, even if it didn't take any less time than the other NPCs but when you were dragged into the room you were stabilized. That's really the issue more than speed ... that the NPC has to be fast enough that you don't die on the table, as it were. If, oh, they had special tables even in the NPC room, that stabilized patients so they wouldn't die once put onto them.
GM Alvy,
>>On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton? Since it was brought up I can see where multiple wounded bodies piling up might overload them but I'm wondering if even sped up they could handle it all.
From this question, may I interpret that to mean the mechanic used at Edgee and Nikki's wedding where the dead waited a minute or two then poofed back to life fully healed is not an option? Because if it were,I'd prefer that service to be available.
If not, then as noted NPC healers/raisers need to first tend the living and restore their vitality so we don't add to the number of bodies to be raised. If the "speed up" could be prioritized to first save those still alive, then tend to the deaders, that could help. It would still be possible to overwhelm the NPC's if large group fights took place.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
>>On the NPC empath thing would speeding up the rate they can take wounds help a ton? Since it was brought up I can see where multiple wounded bodies piling up might overload them but I'm wondering if even sped up they could handle it all.
From this question, may I interpret that to mean the mechanic used at Edgee and Nikki's wedding where the dead waited a minute or two then poofed back to life fully healed is not an option? Because if it were,I'd prefer that service to be available.
If not, then as noted NPC healers/raisers need to first tend the living and restore their vitality so we don't add to the number of bodies to be raised. If the "speed up" could be prioritized to first save those still alive, then tend to the deaders, that could help. It would still be possible to overwhelm the NPC's if large group fights took place.
Redarch
Dwarf with an Axe.. Watch your toes!
hmmmm with all of these work arounds to healing and dieing being suggested why not just have the participants pay a fee and have the healing and/or resurrection done instantly when dragged out of the arena? Really- if the arena is meant to be outside the normal mechanics of DR, then why make it faster or slower- just have it 'poof' done.
Personally- and this is just personally- I think that the arena's should provide the opportunity for empaths and clerics to earn coin. As others have suggested- a set paid to all clerics or empaths who sign up to be the "triage" team. If no cleric or empath signs up, then have npc's who do the same thing.
Either way the charges for healing or resurrection should be hefty. Every other avenue of DR has player provided services or product superior to NPC provided, therefore providing an incentive for players to participate. Therefore the arenas should likewise be an avenue for profit minded and talented empaths and clerics to earn coin if they so chose to.
Flavius
Personally- and this is just personally- I think that the arena's should provide the opportunity for empaths and clerics to earn coin. As others have suggested- a set paid to all clerics or empaths who sign up to be the "triage" team. If no cleric or empath signs up, then have npc's who do the same thing.
Either way the charges for healing or resurrection should be hefty. Every other avenue of DR has player provided services or product superior to NPC provided, therefore providing an incentive for players to participate. Therefore the arenas should likewise be an avenue for profit minded and talented empaths and clerics to earn coin if they so chose to.
Flavius
> Personally- and this is just personally- I think that the arena's should provide the opportunity for empaths and clerics to earn coin. As others have suggested- a set paid to all clerics or empaths who sign up to be the "triage" team. If no cleric or empath signs up, then have npc's who do the same thing.
I have an idea which I think would make a great in-between, and work out pretty well...
What if there were two types of tournaments, sport and competition.
Sport tournaments would have no entry fee and winners would receive no prize. For these matches, quite competent NPC healers and raisers would be available.
Competitions would have an entry fee charged to each contestent, with the winner receiving 70% of the total and on-duty Clerics and Empaths reciving 30%.
The share that each Empath and Cleric receives will be based on their "total" work. Healing a missing chest might garner an Empath 25 points, while an abrasion only 1. Similarly, casting rejuvination once might give a Cleric 1 point, while Raising would result in a gain of 30 points.
The above system could be used to ensure that people get paid what they deserve, and would serve as an incentive for them to do their job quickly and well.
I will give a hypothetical example...
1) 10 high circle characters enter a 5 v. 5 competition, and set the entry fee to 10 platinums per contestent, making a pot 100 platinums.
2) 2 of the players on the one team are still standing when the other is completely defeated.
3) 70 of the 100 platinums are divided between the 2 remaining players, amounting to 35 platinum each.
4) There are 3 Empaths and 2 Clerics who chose to offer their services.
5) 1 Empath did 70% of the healing, which amounted 15 missing appendages, while the other two each did 15%. The Clerics each cast rejuvination 8 times and each raised 4 contestents. The primary Empath might receive 12 platinums, and each of the other 2 empaths might receive 2. Each of the Clerics might receive 7 platinums. All of this amounts to the remaining 30 platinums.
6) If not enough Empaths/Clerics join who are able to help the dead, NPCs will assist for the same price.
Just a few things...
The above numbers are very very rough, and not necessarily to scale.
Also, Empaths/Clerics could choose to participate in the non-paid entry tournaments for tips if they wanted. The same "backup" NPC type healing/raising would take place if necessary.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
I have an idea which I think would make a great in-between, and work out pretty well...
What if there were two types of tournaments, sport and competition.
Sport tournaments would have no entry fee and winners would receive no prize. For these matches, quite competent NPC healers and raisers would be available.
Competitions would have an entry fee charged to each contestent, with the winner receiving 70% of the total and on-duty Clerics and Empaths reciving 30%.
The share that each Empath and Cleric receives will be based on their "total" work. Healing a missing chest might garner an Empath 25 points, while an abrasion only 1. Similarly, casting rejuvination once might give a Cleric 1 point, while Raising would result in a gain of 30 points.
The above system could be used to ensure that people get paid what they deserve, and would serve as an incentive for them to do their job quickly and well.
I will give a hypothetical example...
1) 10 high circle characters enter a 5 v. 5 competition, and set the entry fee to 10 platinums per contestent, making a pot 100 platinums.
2) 2 of the players on the one team are still standing when the other is completely defeated.
3) 70 of the 100 platinums are divided between the 2 remaining players, amounting to 35 platinum each.
4) There are 3 Empaths and 2 Clerics who chose to offer their services.
5) 1 Empath did 70% of the healing, which amounted 15 missing appendages, while the other two each did 15%. The Clerics each cast rejuvination 8 times and each raised 4 contestents. The primary Empath might receive 12 platinums, and each of the other 2 empaths might receive 2. Each of the Clerics might receive 7 platinums. All of this amounts to the remaining 30 platinums.
6) If not enough Empaths/Clerics join who are able to help the dead, NPCs will assist for the same price.
Just a few things...
The above numbers are very very rough, and not necessarily to scale.
Also, Empaths/Clerics could choose to participate in the non-paid entry tournaments for tips if they wanted. The same "backup" NPC type healing/raising would take place if necessary.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
> Also, Empaths/Clerics could choose to participate in the non-paid entry tournaments for tips if they wanted. The same "backup" NPC type healing/raising would take place if necessary.
I actually had a slightly better idea for the payments.
When a contestent signs up, regardless of whether it is for a money competition or not, they need to choose what kind of service they want if they are killed, or in need of healing at the end.
The amount they pay for the "insurance" plan that they choose will vary based on the amount of people in the tournament and the options they choose. I really think it should depend on their level as well, but the GMs can decide that, I don't want to open up the can of worms.
This pooled money will then be divided to those performing the services based on the amount of work they do (as described above) or just poof into the system if the NPC does the work.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
I actually had a slightly better idea for the payments.
When a contestent signs up, regardless of whether it is for a money competition or not, they need to choose what kind of service they want if they are killed, or in need of healing at the end.
The amount they pay for the "insurance" plan that they choose will vary based on the amount of people in the tournament and the options they choose. I really think it should depend on their level as well, but the GMs can decide that, I don't want to open up the can of worms.
This pooled money will then be divided to those performing the services based on the amount of work they do (as described above) or just poof into the system if the NPC does the work.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
Actually- your system seems way too complicated. Clerics or Empaths who take the time to be availible for healing during the tournament should just get a set fee. Put minimum circles or spell requirements- for a cleric make it resurrection- don't know what the empath equivelant would be. Then if there is a pool of 20 plats, share between all the clerics and empaths who participate- no matter how much work they do. Why? Because they are getting paid for the time they make themselves available instead of earning their own coin.
If I knew that someone was going to pay me 10 platinum to be availible for an hour, I would seriously consider it. If I knew that my cleric might not get anything if no one dies, I wouldn't bother to stick around.
Flavius
If I knew that someone was going to pay me 10 platinum to be availible for an hour, I would seriously consider it. If I knew that my cleric might not get anything if no one dies, I wouldn't bother to stick around.
Flavius
> How do you manage zombies with any automated payment system?
I have absolutely no idea what your reply means. Are you saying that the Empaths and Clerics will just sign up and then not do any work? If so, that is exactly why I suggested the system be setup with a backup NPC Empath/Cleric, that will do the work if no one signs up, or they slack off. If someone signs up and does no work, they will receive 0% of the pooled money.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
I have absolutely no idea what your reply means. Are you saying that the Empaths and Clerics will just sign up and then not do any work? If so, that is exactly why I suggested the system be setup with a backup NPC Empath/Cleric, that will do the work if no one signs up, or they slack off. If someone signs up and does no work, they will receive 0% of the pooled money.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
> If I knew that someone was going to pay me 10 platinum to be availible for an hour, I would seriously consider it. If I knew that my cleric might not get anything if no one dies, I wouldn't bother to stick around.
I don't think you understood what I meant, or I wasn't clear. How much work you do will determine what percentage of the pooled money you receive. The pooled money is distributed regardless of the amount of people that die. When people sign up for their "insurance" services, and pay a platinum (or whatever their fee is) to know they will be healed/ressurected if they die. That money is distributed whether they die or not.
1) How can no one die in a tournament, barring the tournament being cancelled, the game crashing, etcetera? In order for a team/person to win, they need to kill the other person/people/team. How much work people do on those that DO die, determines how much of the total money they receive.
2) If two Empaths sign up, one 10th circle, and one 125th circle, and the first Empath takes one abrasion while the second takes 25 missing chests, they don't both deserve 10 platinum. Or even if two 125th circle Empaths sign up, and one watches a movie and takes a few bruises, while the other works very hard and does 95% of the work.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
I don't think you understood what I meant, or I wasn't clear. How much work you do will determine what percentage of the pooled money you receive. The pooled money is distributed regardless of the amount of people that die. When people sign up for their "insurance" services, and pay a platinum (or whatever their fee is) to know they will be healed/ressurected if they die. That money is distributed whether they die or not.
1) How can no one die in a tournament, barring the tournament being cancelled, the game crashing, etcetera? In order for a team/person to win, they need to kill the other person/people/team. How much work people do on those that DO die, determines how much of the total money they receive.
2) If two Empaths sign up, one 10th circle, and one 125th circle, and the first Empath takes one abrasion while the second takes 25 missing chests, they don't both deserve 10 platinum. Or even if two 125th circle Empaths sign up, and one watches a movie and takes a few bruises, while the other works very hard and does 95% of the work.
wandering, not wondering - not praying for, nor pondering...
Empaths are not the problem. I think a good handful of us who tourney have our own empaths. Its the cleric part that is tricky.
-G, player thereof
---
Messenger Boy: The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: That is why no one will remember your name.
-G, player thereof
---
Messenger Boy: The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: That is why no one will remember your name.
