>I have seen many many many times these kinda messages: you are not close enough to attack or fire at what? because critter is gone.

This is not caused by the retreat changes. The retreat changes cause creatures to retreat after at least five minutes of being engaged with you. If you can't engage a critter while it's engaged with you for five minutes, there is a serious, overwhelming problem somewhere.

>Not parry or MO

If you can't learn parry, move up the ladder. If it's a lot higher than your weapons, you're going to have trouble learning weapons and parry at the same time, just as you're going to have trouble learning two different weapons with the same gap.

The MO situation is obviously a different story. MO needs work, and several red names have admitted to this.

-Durnil

>if you have 500 in medium edge and 120 Parry what good does it do to hunt?

The only way to really do that is through classes or extreme amounts of patience for death. If you have 120 parry, train it in silver leucros or swains. I'm not sure what your complaint is regarding parry.

>to make a warmage more combat effective, in my opinion, you need to stay with them until armor is at the very least equal to weapons, it just takes ya longer to move off a critter type or out of certain hunting areas is all.

Depends on how you want to do combat. As I said on the WM boards a few days ago, it is possible for us to climb the critter ladder as fast as a barbarian can if we use TM alone. However, if we want to be able to stand toe to toe, it will take us longer to move up. That is what we sacrifice by having the most devastating magic in the game.

-Durnil

I wish critters would attack more often. As it is, Heavy edge is 79, evasion is 74, not a big difference. Where would evasion be when HE is 100? Low 80s perhaps. As it is, I can kill some critters before it takes a single swipe at me.

Like Shygoat says, fight natural creatures. Try snowies in the Gash. They'd probably be perfect for you.


Axillus - Halfling Warrior Mage
>You charge your steel-toed footwrap at a musk hog.

>Rangers get both weapon and evasion at primary, armor is secondary.

Rangers learn evasion primary (survival), and weapons and armor secondary.

>What I am talking about is advancing on a critter and attacking it. All it does is the fluff stuff, such as scratching itself or spitting on the ground or searching. Even when I don't attack it, it doesn't attack me. Shouldn't it be, when you attack it, critter recognizes that it is in a fight and attack in return or else go running into another room (flight or fight response)? Instead, said critter searches for something to eat or scratches its groin while I get 4-6 hits on it with round times of 4-6 seconds. Anywhere from 16 to 36 seconds, killing it without it attacking me in return. Stun it once or twice, usually light or barely.

Yeah, they do some goofy stuff sometimes, but it still doesn't mean you have to attack it. Advance on it, then get in a good defensive STANCE (like setting your attack to 0% and your evasion and parry to 100% each, for example), and just chill out. This is commonly referred to by the DR community as "dancing". Once all your defensive skills are up in the higher mindstates (bewildering, mind lock, etc.), start killing everything you see.

---

Aveda's Field Guide
http://dr.aveda.googlepages.com
Hot hot hot scripts, Antique P5 maps, a macro tutorial, skill & stat training advice, and plenty of Bardly goodness.
Reckus 3 is out! Works for all guilds! 5/21/2007

Train several weapons, in the course of doing it, you'll absorb more attacks, getting more defensive experience.

Samsaren

>Sat infront of a critter for a minute waiting for it to attack me and it didn't...

You should add details. Like, you know, what critter it is. So the GM's can make sure they're working right.

Yes, show logs. Your credibility is really getting to be quite low.


Vinjince

---

"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi

>>Logs???

Is that too hard to comprehend?

What critter were you facing, did you not read the posts right before mine? Are Rangers really weapon and survival primary?

I want to see a log (a copy and paste or a saved clip) of whatever critter painting its nails for one full minute or however long you claim while you're standing at melee on it.

Like I said, your credibility is getting extremely low.


Vinjince

---

"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi

Hey Vinjince, go easy.. we might be dealing with a DR n00b. Remember all those trial accounts Solomon was bragging about? These are the guys who are going to keep the game going when everyone else quits and we're the only losers left.

---

Aveda's Field Guide
http://dr.aveda.googlepages.com
Hot hot hot scripts, Antique P5 maps, a macro tutorial, skill & stat training advice, and plenty of Bardly goodness.
Reckus 3 is out! Works for all guilds! 5/21/2007

Very well then, facing Rock Trolls.

[Rolling Hills, Rocky Slope]
The ground is sprinkled with bits of gravel and stone, making this steep slope an adventure in and of itself. Split boulders strewn across the ground prove to be good for catching your balance when dexterity gives way to gravity and the slippery mixture of skree and grass. You also see a rock troll.
Obvious paths: southwest, down.
>ad troll
You begin to advance on a rock troll.
>
A rock troll begins to advance on you!
The rock troll is still a distance away from you and is closing steadily.
>parry
You move into a position to parry.
[You're slightly off balance and opponent has slight advantage.]
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>
You close to pole weapon range on a rock troll.
You stop a rock troll from advancing any farther.
>
You feel fully balanced again.
>
You close to melee range on a rock troll.
>"1"
You say, "1""
>
The rock troll moves into a position to parry.
>"2
You say, "2"
>"3
You say, "3"
>
A rock troll begins growling a spell!
>"4
You say, "4"
>"5
You say, "5"
>
* Shran was just struck down!
>"6
You say, "6"
>"7
You say, "7"
>"8
You say, "8"
>"9
You say, "9"
>
* Karolynne was just struck down!
>"10
You say, "10"
>"11
You say, "11"
>"12
You say, "12"
>"13
The troll laughs monstrously and chants, "Koraf korht aneadak!" Suddenly, the ground begins to shake, the very rocks shuddering beneath the mystical might of the troll's words!

>
You say, "13"
>"14
You say, "14"
>"15
You say, "15"
>"16
You say, "16"
>"17
You say, "17"
>
A rock troll begins growling a spell!
>"18
>
You say, "18"
>
A rock troll tromps in.
>"19
You say, "19"
>
As the day wanes, the sun begins its long trudge towards its home and the sweet comfort of night.
>
A rock troll searches the area.
>"20
You say, "20"
>"21
You say, "21"
>"22
A rock troll begins growling a spell!
>
You say, "22"
>"23
You say, "23"
>
The translucent sphere around you suddenly pops like a soap bubble.
>"24
You say, "24"
>
The troll laughs monstrously and chants, "Aex zok mikgrek!" Suddenly, the ground begins to shake, the very rocks shuddering beneath the mystical might of the troll's words!

>"25
You say, "25"
>"26
You say, "26"
>"27
You say, "27"
>"28
You say, "28"
>"29
You say, "29"
>
* Moving well, a rock troll thrusts a sharp pine sapling at you. You dodge.
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in better position.]
>"30
You say, "30"
>
The troll laughs monstrously and chants, "Acz aer sha'hhn!" Suddenly, the ground begins to shake, the very rocks shuddering beneath the mystical might of the troll's words!

>
* Moving well, a rock troll sweeps low at you. You evade, stepping clear of danger.
[You're solidly balanced with opponent in strong position.]
>retreat
You retreat back to pole range.
>retreat
>
You retreat from combat.


Rock Trolls, I was counting down until it actually launched a melee attack, 29 seconds. It took me roughly that long to kill one before that. A rock troll can't attack while it is prepping a spell?

Haven't seen the 'Rock-Troll-that-takes-a-minute-to-decide-if-it-is-going-to-attack'.

I will see if ambushing a Blood Wolf makes it do its impression of a deer caught in the headlights (as in stand absolutely still). Or if a Fenrae Reaver goes walking around giggling to itself while I am wailing away on it...

One screwy critter does not a broke system make.

I have always assumed the critter system used single-option logic. IE: attack, or cast, or retreat. But not 'attack while prepping then rereat and cast'.

Rock trolls do that.

The system isn't broke.

Learn how to dance or never learn defenses.


Vinjince

---

"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi

I have to agree with the initial request. I also wish creatures would attack more often. How boring is it to stand around waiting to be attacked? If defenses naturally kept pace with offenses it would be more fun to hunt.

By the time you're 40th circle (if not sooner) you tend to use a weapon at minimum roundtime, which means you can attack roughly three-four times as fast as the creatures you're fighting. Sure if you stand around you can eventually mindlock your defenses (with the possible exception of MO), but honestly, do you WANT to do that?

That said, I do think rock trolls are broken based on how infrequently they attack.