Previous Thread
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
>feint
< Moving as one fluid extension of power, you feint a golden tasseled spear at a caracal. A caracal fails to evade, avoiding only some of the blow.
The spear lands a harmless strike to the caracal's neck.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]
look
>
* Moving with incredible power and control, a caracal tenses, springs, and swipes at you. You evade, stepping aside in the nick of time.
[You're incredibly balanced and overwhelming your opponent.]
>* Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone while tripping into a better position, a caracal tenses, springs, and swipes at you. You barely block with a small brace buckler.
The claw lands a very heavy hit that cleaves off the top half of the skull, exposing the brain.
With a snarling purr, the caracal rasps its tongue against your cheek.
Your tasseled spear falls to the ground.
The eerie self-confidence endowed by "Redeemer's Pride" ebbs away.
Your death cry echoes in your brain as it quickly dawns on you that you have just died! Already, you feel the tug of eternity upon your spirit and you struggle to remain tied to this world.
You are somewhat comforted that you have gained favor with your God and are in no danger of walking the Starry Road, never to return.
Your body will decay beyond its ability to hold your soul in 524 minutes.
[You're incredibly balanced]
I could see this happening if maybe I was in a terrible position, but I was dominating that thing. First time I've ever gotten instantly killed from a critical.
__
~Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leilondsootherin.png
<<>* Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone while tripping into a better position>>
Did you really make it to caracals without ever seeing this before?
Happens more and more as the offense of the critter gets meaner. Not much you can do short of underhunting or hoping they hit a limb when they trip.
Did you really make it to caracals without ever seeing this before?
Happens more and more as the offense of the critter gets meaner. Not much you can do short of underhunting or hoping they hit a limb when they trip.
I've gotten critical'ed before, but it's never ever been an instant death before.
__
~Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leilondsootherin.png
__
~Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leilondsootherin.png
I'm glad they decided to remove them, just hope it's done before I get to the point where it happens.
The only crit I've ever seen in game was when I was underhunting a field goblin with a bastard sword. Poor bugger.
A sickly tree grumbles, "Where da heck am I?"
A sickly tree shuffles west.
The only crit I've ever seen in game was when I was underhunting a field goblin with a bastard sword. Poor bugger.
A sickly tree grumbles, "Where da heck am I?"
A sickly tree shuffles west.
Just wait until you hit celps. The spirit of Zoha runs strong through them.
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Venic smiles as he sticks his copper bead in one nostril, covers the other one, and exhales forcefully, shooting the bead directly at Drevid!
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Venic smiles as he sticks his copper bead in one nostril, covers the other one, and exhales forcefully, shooting the bead directly at Drevid!
Not only is it possible to still survive celpeze criticals, I started shield blocking and parrying them - this was back before the evasion and attack changes, but it's still a matter of OF. This was dancing four celpeze, and I was still learning from them (learning very well, as a matter of fact).
Raiders were problematic initially, but I am a firm believer that after a certain point in being able to dance with the engagement cap of whatever new critter I was hunting. There's enough overlap and the teaching ranges are high enough past 250 ranks to allow this. If your multi is good enough to dance the engagement cap when you START hunting, open rolls won't bother you well before the time you have to leave the area and move on... at least until you start hitting things like armadillos.
Raiders were problematic initially, but I am a firm believer that after a certain point in being able to dance with the engagement cap of whatever new critter I was hunting. There's enough overlap and the teaching ranges are high enough past 250 ranks to allow this. If your multi is good enough to dance the engagement cap when you START hunting, open rolls won't bother you well before the time you have to leave the area and move on... at least until you start hitting things like armadillos.
<<Raiders were problematic initially, but I am a firm believer that after a certain point in being able to dance with the engagement cap of whatever new critter I was hunting. There's enough overlap and the teaching ranges are high enough past 250 ranks to allow this. If your multi is good enough to dance the engagement cap when you START hunting, open rolls won't bother you well before the time you have to leave the area and move on... at least until you start hitting things like armadillos.
Yeah, no. The messages we associate with open rolls are the highest indicator to a player and signify an interval of x to infinity. For values close to x you can still reduce the OF to the point of living even on critical areas. Starting at around caracals is the point where you can get 1 hit from incredibly balanced even if you're well into the softcap.
- Maje
Yeah, no. The messages we associate with open rolls are the highest indicator to a player and signify an interval of x to infinity. For values close to x you can still reduce the OF to the point of living even on critical areas. Starting at around caracals is the point where you can get 1 hit from incredibly balanced even if you're well into the softcap.
- Maje
>>Yeah, no. The messages we associate with open rolls are the highest indicator to a player and signify an interval of x to infinity. For values close to x you can still reduce the OF to the point of living even on critical areas. Starting at around caracals is the point where you can get 1 hit from incredibly balanced even if you're well into the softcap.
I would have to agree with that. Although I did start surviving some of the lucky crits to vital body parts in celps before I left, I certainly was not surviving them all. I believe I left celps (the first time) at around 565 evasion and 570 parry.
I'm back in celps backtraining a few things and I haven't been 1 hitted yet, but I'm poaching most of the time.
-Gavyn
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
I would have to agree with that. Although I did start surviving some of the lucky crits to vital body parts in celps before I left, I certainly was not surviving them all. I believe I left celps (the first time) at around 565 evasion and 570 parry.
I'm back in celps backtraining a few things and I haven't been 1 hitted yet, but I'm poaching most of the time.
-Gavyn
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
They are NOT an interval of x to infinity.
The removal of Zoha crits was specifically to remove the potential for infinitely large criticals - the ship's rat one-shotting Gurt scenario.
Therefore there is a finite limitation based on the critter to how large any crit can be.
Also, it is not a matter of 'reducing the OF to the point of living'. I have extensive logs of the time I spent hunting raiders and, with effort, could legitimately document my defensive growth simply by virtue of identifying the decrease of critical effectiveness to the point where crits no longer destroyed body parts regularily, were parried on a regular basis, and were eventually evaded out of hand.
Either you accept that Zoha crits are gone, or you don't, but if you believe that Zoha crits are gone then why this talk of infinitely large open rolls?
The removal of Zoha crits was specifically to remove the potential for infinitely large criticals - the ship's rat one-shotting Gurt scenario.
Therefore there is a finite limitation based on the critter to how large any crit can be.
Also, it is not a matter of 'reducing the OF to the point of living'. I have extensive logs of the time I spent hunting raiders and, with effort, could legitimately document my defensive growth simply by virtue of identifying the decrease of critical effectiveness to the point where crits no longer destroyed body parts regularily, were parried on a regular basis, and were eventually evaded out of hand.
Either you accept that Zoha crits are gone, or you don't, but if you believe that Zoha crits are gone then why this talk of infinitely large open rolls?
Way to miss the point.
We all got the memo Zoha crits are gone. Rats will no longer even have a remote possibility of ever one-shotting me at my level. HOWEVER, things at my level still frequently one shot me. Even raiders, which I can dance with 4 and never get touched all day long are still able to one-shot me.
I believe Oolan posted that it had to do with the damage output of creatures as you move up the ladder. It gets to a point, around where I am at now, where their output is significantly more than what my chest could take on a given hit. This is the issue folks have. Not with goblins one shotting 90+ barbarians. Its with creatures folks hunt to train and learn from randomly tripping and exploding chests because the damage scale is so out of whack.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
We all got the memo Zoha crits are gone. Rats will no longer even have a remote possibility of ever one-shotting me at my level. HOWEVER, things at my level still frequently one shot me. Even raiders, which I can dance with 4 and never get touched all day long are still able to one-shot me.
I believe Oolan posted that it had to do with the damage output of creatures as you move up the ladder. It gets to a point, around where I am at now, where their output is significantly more than what my chest could take on a given hit. This is the issue folks have. Not with goblins one shotting 90+ barbarians. Its with creatures folks hunt to train and learn from randomly tripping and exploding chests because the damage scale is so out of whack.
-Galren Moonskin
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.
>I believe Oolan posted that it had to do with the damage output of creatures as you move up the ladder. It gets to a point, around where I am at now, where their output is significantly more than what my chest could take on a given hit. This is the issue folks have. Not with goblins one shotting 90+ barbarians. Its with creatures folks hunt to train and learn from randomly tripping and exploding chests because the damage scale is so out of whack.
Yes.
Honestly, I think its the bad grammar that kills you, those sentences with open rolls are almost never correct.
Yes.
Honestly, I think its the bad grammar that kills you, those sentences with open rolls are almost never correct.
>>Its with creatures folks hunt to train and learn from randomly tripping and exploding chests because the damage scale is so out of whack.
Celpeze aren't exactly goblins, and I was parrying or dodging outright the majority of their open rolls by the time I left.
Now, granted, I had an advantage in the sense that I was operating with ~100 more effective ranks of evasion/parry due to SW at the time, plus the reflex and balance bonus of sure footing. Heavy plate initially did a great deal to survive open rolls initially but past the hump where you start to parry them your armor doesn't matter. Also I left WELL before the soft cap on raiders. Anyone with as many ranks and a similar defensive boosting ability, or more ranks, or more reflex, could do the same, but it is something that has to be worked towards.
If you decide "Okay, I've had it with these open rolls, I'm going to devote energies to stopping them from affecting me as much", and you wanted it bad enough, I'm sure you'd figure out how to reduce their potency. It's a matter of priorities, though, and most people would rather soak the deaths than make the sacrifices to prevent them in the first place - and that's not an insult because generally it's better overall to take the deaths and move on with your training.
Celpeze aren't exactly goblins, and I was parrying or dodging outright the majority of their open rolls by the time I left.
Now, granted, I had an advantage in the sense that I was operating with ~100 more effective ranks of evasion/parry due to SW at the time, plus the reflex and balance bonus of sure footing. Heavy plate initially did a great deal to survive open rolls initially but past the hump where you start to parry them your armor doesn't matter. Also I left WELL before the soft cap on raiders. Anyone with as many ranks and a similar defensive boosting ability, or more ranks, or more reflex, could do the same, but it is something that has to be worked towards.
If you decide "Okay, I've had it with these open rolls, I'm going to devote energies to stopping them from affecting me as much", and you wanted it bad enough, I'm sure you'd figure out how to reduce their potency. It's a matter of priorities, though, and most people would rather soak the deaths than make the sacrifices to prevent them in the first place - and that's not an insult because generally it's better overall to take the deaths and move on with your training.
>If you decide "Okay, I've had it with these open rolls, I'm going to devote energies to stopping them from affecting me as much", and you wanted it bad enough, I'm sure you'd figure out how to reduce their potency.
I disagree. WMs and Paladins are the guilds with the best defensive abilities to make them avoidable. As a moon mage, I use a capped evasion boost (seer's sense) and hunt with capped LC armor and I've pumped my reflex to 80. There's not much else I can do.
I disagree. WMs and Paladins are the guilds with the best defensive abilities to make them avoidable. As a moon mage, I use a capped evasion boost (seer's sense) and hunt with capped LC armor and I've pumped my reflex to 80. There's not much else I can do.
>>I disagree. WMs and Paladins are the guilds with the best defensive abilities to make them avoidable. As a moon mage, I use a capped evasion boost (seer's sense) and hunt with capped LC armor and I've pumped my reflex to 80. There's not much else I can do.
You're a moon mage; it's quite likely that your defensive skills are simply lacking and you rely on your high reflex and evasion boost (seer's sense isn't even an impressive boost) to see you through in hunting areas where a "trader" or even a barbarian/WM who isn't backtraining would require more ranks to survive on a normal basis.
If you were to provide numbers as to your ranks (armor, evasion, parry/shield) and what you are hunting, I could have a better idea of how far you have to go. Also keep in mind that the power creep Ssra mentioned continues; elder armadilloes, for example, still one-hit everyone I know on an open roll, but that's not strictly speaking just because they have such high damage, but also because they generate such a large base OF on attack that overcoming an open roll requires a much greater difference in ranks than, say, raiders or celpeze.
You're a moon mage; it's quite likely that your defensive skills are simply lacking and you rely on your high reflex and evasion boost (seer's sense isn't even an impressive boost) to see you through in hunting areas where a "trader" or even a barbarian/WM who isn't backtraining would require more ranks to survive on a normal basis.
If you were to provide numbers as to your ranks (armor, evasion, parry/shield) and what you are hunting, I could have a better idea of how far you have to go. Also keep in mind that the power creep Ssra mentioned continues; elder armadilloes, for example, still one-hit everyone I know on an open roll, but that's not strictly speaking just because they have such high damage, but also because they generate such a large base OF on attack that overcoming an open roll requires a much greater difference in ranks than, say, raiders or celpeze.
>If you were to provide numbers as to your ranks (armor, evasion, parry/shield) and what you are hunting, I could have a better idea of how far you have to go.
As another MM, I'm in celps with the following stats and I still get one-shot:
585 Shield
550+ Armors- either straight Leather or LC/HC combo
605 Evasion
440 MO
85 reflex
50 stamina
How far do I have to go? Oh wait- I'm well into the soft cap for them and even dancing with 3 or 4 can maybe see evasion touch learning.
-Vision et al
Also, I can shoot bees.
As another MM, I'm in celps with the following stats and I still get one-shot:
585 Shield
550+ Armors- either straight Leather or LC/HC combo
605 Evasion
440 MO
85 reflex
50 stamina
How far do I have to go? Oh wait- I'm well into the soft cap for them and even dancing with 3 or 4 can maybe see evasion touch learning.
-Vision et al
Also, I can shoot bees.
Yeah, I'd post my skills, but what's the point? I was almost at the hard cap in evasion and near the soft cap in shield when I left raiders. You're making some assumptions based on guild that just aren't valid. Get 75-99 in all the mentals and you can learn tert skills at a relatively decent rate.
However, plate armor still isn't viable, and I'm really not sure what else I could do. CJs don't last long enough to hunt with them constantly active and predictions are unreliable.
However, plate armor still isn't viable, and I'm really not sure what else I could do. CJs don't last long enough to hunt with them constantly active and predictions are unreliable.
Your stamina is mostly irrelevant for the purposes of determining what will or won't one-shot you. Stamina doesn't increase the amount that any individual body part can take and only appears to have a minor effect on absortion.
Here's something that is very important, though:
>>440 MO
MO penalty bad.
Here's the other thing that's very important:
>>585 Shield
Shield is the best general defense in the game, but I got more consistant results parrying open rolls than I did shield blocking them.
Granted, my experience with celpeze predates certain combat changes - the evasion downtweak had been recently entered but nothing else - so it may be that celpeze are now past the limiting point where open rolls can be trained off through the course of hunting based on the changes to parry and shield. It's possible (given my experience training a new character, quite likely) that things have changed so much as to make my experience pre-changes irrelevant in some cases.
All I'm saying is that it used to be possible, with numbers approximating yours (but with more multi).
Here's something that is very important, though:
>>440 MO
MO penalty bad.
Here's the other thing that's very important:
>>585 Shield
Shield is the best general defense in the game, but I got more consistant results parrying open rolls than I did shield blocking them.
Granted, my experience with celpeze predates certain combat changes - the evasion downtweak had been recently entered but nothing else - so it may be that celpeze are now past the limiting point where open rolls can be trained off through the course of hunting based on the changes to parry and shield. It's possible (given my experience training a new character, quite likely) that things have changed so much as to make my experience pre-changes irrelevant in some cases.
All I'm saying is that it used to be possible, with numbers approximating yours (but with more multi).
>>If you decide "Okay, I've had it with these open rolls, I'm going to devote energies to stopping them from affecting me as much", and you wanted it bad enough, I'm sure you'd figure out how to reduce their potency.
Wow... I really can't say I agree with that. Past about black leucros the only way to entirely remove the chance of a one hit death - is to just not hunt :P Keep in mind that crit's still have a range. I once shield blocked one just to lose my abdomen on the next not 20 seconds later.
I do agree that most crit's aren't insta-death. But the stun and vit damage can easily LEAD to my dying for a variety of reasons. Also keep in mind that not all guilds have a get out of combat free card, or buffs to mitigate the damage.
Faulting players for not "devoting energies to stopping them" means you probably don't understand the issue...
Lastly...
>>MO penalty bad.
Most of my crit's (thankfully) happen when dancing with just a single enemy. So MO penalty is a moot point.
>>my experience with celpeze predates certain combat changes
The evasion change made hunting at level a good bit harder and more dangerous (without teaching better). This further complicated the open roll situation a bit. I'm not trying to come down on you or anything. But I've tried like hell to avoid open rolls. Over time I've just come to accept them until the GMs find a fix.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Wow... I really can't say I agree with that. Past about black leucros the only way to entirely remove the chance of a one hit death - is to just not hunt :P Keep in mind that crit's still have a range. I once shield blocked one just to lose my abdomen on the next not 20 seconds later.
I do agree that most crit's aren't insta-death. But the stun and vit damage can easily LEAD to my dying for a variety of reasons. Also keep in mind that not all guilds have a get out of combat free card, or buffs to mitigate the damage.
Faulting players for not "devoting energies to stopping them" means you probably don't understand the issue...
Lastly...
>>MO penalty bad.
Most of my crit's (thankfully) happen when dancing with just a single enemy. So MO penalty is a moot point.
>>my experience with celpeze predates certain combat changes
The evasion change made hunting at level a good bit harder and more dangerous (without teaching better). This further complicated the open roll situation a bit. I'm not trying to come down on you or anything. But I've tried like hell to avoid open rolls. Over time I've just come to accept them until the GMs find a fix.
http://www.drplat.com - The DragonRealms Platinum Community Website. Be sure to vote DragonRealms as your #1 MUD!
Either this guy is just completely lying to make himself sound cool, or he's the absolute luckiest player in the game.
Open rolls can not be stopped, that's why they are open rolls. People who can dance all day long will still occasionally get one-shotted. Thus the 'stumbling into a better position'
If you're not just talking out your third point of contact...go buy a lottery ticket.
Open rolls can not be stopped, that's why they are open rolls. People who can dance all day long will still occasionally get one-shotted. Thus the 'stumbling into a better position'
If you're not just talking out your third point of contact...go buy a lottery ticket.
My experience with celpeze and raiders is about a year old, so pre-combat changes.
I'm back starting from scratch now, so how the changes interact at the high-end isn't something that I have experience with. When I had left, the only change that had occurred is the ranged weapon/TM/evasion change, and my statements were still true then.
They are apparently no longer valid. Simple as that.
While I understand that a lot of people on the boards talk out their asses, I'm not one of them.
As for the way open rolls work now, they function exactly the same as they did then - the difference is that melee defense isn't generated as high relative to melee offense anymore (from what I have been able to discern) - which puts the bar at parrying/blocking open rolls much lower than previously existed.
I'm back starting from scratch now, so how the changes interact at the high-end isn't something that I have experience with. When I had left, the only change that had occurred is the ranged weapon/TM/evasion change, and my statements were still true then.
They are apparently no longer valid. Simple as that.
While I understand that a lot of people on the boards talk out their asses, I'm not one of them.
As for the way open rolls work now, they function exactly the same as they did then - the difference is that melee defense isn't generated as high relative to melee offense anymore (from what I have been able to discern) - which puts the bar at parrying/blocking open rolls much lower than previously existed.
When I first started in Celpeze I got 1-hit about once a day. By the time I left Celpeze it was down to about once every 2 weeks but they could still 1-hit me on rare occasions, the worst of the open rolls. WMs are, however, rather well suited to survive them. I did not stay in Poloh'izh long but I rarely survived their vital open rolls. After that I went to westies and due to their flexing nature, getting stronger as I did, I never got to the point where I could survive them.
Now I'm here in Elder Armadillos and I'm finally starting to see some of the freak occurances Ssra and Oolan used to talk about. I have seen my chest exploded from full health on a light hit, it was not even an open roll. I do sometimes survive their open rolls, 80 stamina and 800 HP do a lot of good, but sometimes its just your turn to die.
The first time I was ever 1-hit killed was in Caracals.
-Tropicalo
Now I'm here in Elder Armadillos and I'm finally starting to see some of the freak occurances Ssra and Oolan used to talk about. I have seen my chest exploded from full health on a light hit, it was not even an open roll. I do sometimes survive their open rolls, 80 stamina and 800 HP do a lot of good, but sometimes its just your turn to die.
The first time I was ever 1-hit killed was in Caracals.
-Tropicalo
