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Welp, I've begun a new project that will probably take a couple hundred years off my life.
Yes, I've decided to figure out the balance mod between every move on every weapon. What does that mean? I want to know whether you gain balance going from HB Feint to a LE Slice.
And it'll only take 31,383 moves.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>I want to know whether you gain balance going from HB Feint to a LE Slice.
I was under the impression that it doesn't matter what weapon your previous move comes from. Your balance is determined by what your previous maneuver was, what your weapon is, and what your next maneuver is. Nothing to do with what your previous weapon was.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
I was under the impression that it doesn't matter what weapon your previous move comes from. Your balance is determined by what your previous maneuver was, what your weapon is, and what your next maneuver is. Nothing to do with what your previous weapon was.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
>>I was under the impression that it doesn't matter what weapon your previous move comes from.
Nope, the weapon does seem to matter. For example, if you feint with a heavy blunt in your right, and then draw with the light blunt, its a balance bonus. Do that with a light blunt to light blunt and its a balance penalty (takes you from solidly balanced to off balance).
>>Wouldn't switching weapons actually skew the results unless they have the same balance?
Huh? Maybe I'm missing your point, but balance only affects your ability to apply agility to OF and to parry. As far as I'm aware, except maybe in disasterous failures, it won't have any effect on the balance mod from combos.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Nope, the weapon does seem to matter. For example, if you feint with a heavy blunt in your right, and then draw with the light blunt, its a balance bonus. Do that with a light blunt to light blunt and its a balance penalty (takes you from solidly balanced to off balance).
>>Wouldn't switching weapons actually skew the results unless they have the same balance?
Huh? Maybe I'm missing your point, but balance only affects your ability to apply agility to OF and to parry. As far as I'm aware, except maybe in disasterous failures, it won't have any effect on the balance mod from combos.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
known so far with offhand
Non brawling sequence-
With Brawling-
SO far this works with all four blades, the draw//jab means that if the hand is empty then draw is replaced with jab. The numbers may be off, since it's really hard to tell directly.
I would suggest replacing Draw /hand/ empty = error with Draw /hand/ empty = Backslap+brawl+armor, but that's just me.
If you attack with the same attack both times you'll throw the numbers away entirely, instance feint(r)+feint(l)=-4 instead of +1, so what ever you do, move forward in the sequence.
>>--Shnurui-->
Non brawling sequence-
| feint 1 | +1 |
| draw 2 | +1 |
| sweep 1 | +0 |
| slice 2 | -1 |
| chop 1 | +1 |
With Brawling-
| feint 1 | +1 |
| punch 2 | +0 |
| Draw//Jab 1 | +1 |
| sweep 2 | +0 |
| kick 1 | +1 |
| slice 2 | +0 |
| elbow 1 | -1 |
| chop 2 | +1 |
| circle 1 | +1 |
SO far this works with all four blades, the draw//jab means that if the hand is empty then draw is replaced with jab. The numbers may be off, since it's really hard to tell directly.
I would suggest replacing Draw /hand/ empty = error with Draw /hand/ empty = Backslap+brawl+armor, but that's just me.
If you attack with the same attack both times you'll throw the numbers away entirely, instance feint(r)+feint(l)=-4 instead of +1, so what ever you do, move forward in the sequence.
>>--Shnurui-->
While you're doing that, would you check the straight combos for Medium Blunt, LE Slice, and Pike? That's all I'm missing from Steelflash's old site, which apparently noone saved.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
>>Yes, I've decided to figure out the balance mod between every move on every weapon. What does that mean? I want to know whether you gain balance going from HB Feint to a LE Slice.
I'm not sure it's that hard. Using that old chart i have somewhere and can't find at the moment (i think steelflash's?)...all you do is use your last move (feint, draw, slice, whatever) and find out what comes after it on the next weapon's chart.
My research (when i played a character that extensively used ME/MB/Offhand constantly) the only thing that matters is the Last Combat Maneuver listed in stance.
For instance - if you feint, all the game remembers is your last move was a feint - weapon does not matter. If you feint with a sword, then switch to a hammer (offhand or regular) or pike, or halberd...none of the change matters. Just look at the weapon you want to attack with, and the Last Combat Maneuver.
I hope that made sense to someone other than myself.
I'm not sure it's that hard. Using that old chart i have somewhere and can't find at the moment (i think steelflash's?)...all you do is use your last move (feint, draw, slice, whatever) and find out what comes after it on the next weapon's chart.
My research (when i played a character that extensively used ME/MB/Offhand constantly) the only thing that matters is the Last Combat Maneuver listed in stance.
For instance - if you feint, all the game remembers is your last move was a feint - weapon does not matter. If you feint with a sword, then switch to a hammer (offhand or regular) or pike, or halberd...none of the change matters. Just look at the weapon you want to attack with, and the Last Combat Maneuver.
I hope that made sense to someone other than myself.
>>The numbers may be off, since it's really hard to tell directly.
If you put the time in, its not too difficult. Simply wait to return to solidly balanced before moving to the next move. As for positive moves, immediately follow it with a negative move of known balance reduction until you find the one that returns you to solidly, and you can tell its a bonus equal to your known penalty.
I think that made sense.
>>While you're doing that, would you check the straight combos for Medium Blunt, LE Slice, and Pike? That's all I'm missing from Steelflash's old site, which apparently noone saved.
I'll be making the data available as I accumulate it. I think I've finished MB already... Yup. I'll email it to you Han.
>>the game remembers is your last move was a feint - weapon does not matter.
Sorry, but my experimental evidence directly contradicts this. Previous weapon very much does matter. Not always, but it definitely does matter in some cases.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
If you put the time in, its not too difficult. Simply wait to return to solidly balanced before moving to the next move. As for positive moves, immediately follow it with a negative move of known balance reduction until you find the one that returns you to solidly, and you can tell its a bonus equal to your known penalty.
I think that made sense.
>>While you're doing that, would you check the straight combos for Medium Blunt, LE Slice, and Pike? That's all I'm missing from Steelflash's old site, which apparently noone saved.
I'll be making the data available as I accumulate it. I think I've finished MB already... Yup. I'll email it to you Han.
>>the game remembers is your last move was a feint - weapon does not matter.
Sorry, but my experimental evidence directly contradicts this. Previous weapon very much does matter. Not always, but it definitely does matter in some cases.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Well, I can give you the results of your test before you begin. If you know how it goes with just using one weapon, the you know how it goes with two.
When you use offhand (hmm guess should say a move with weapon in opposite hand that you just used), it just looks at your last combat move. For example, say you used HE in your right hand. Then use a HB in your left hand. To determne your balance after the HB move, it just follows the paths of balance set with HB with your HE move).
Okay, that does seem confusing. Let me show an example that may show my point. As a trader, there is a nice easy combo that I use. My medium blunt in right hand and short staff in left hand. Combo I use is sweep/chop left. I keep my balance optimal (as much as you can for a trader) at all times. Here is why.
Combo is sweep, bash left
Using a combat guide (wish I could remember where, here are some combos for those two weapons:
MB: feint, chop, sweep, draw, slice
SS: feint, draw, slice, sweep, chop
So here is what happens.
1) Sweep first, giving you your balance.
2) Bash left. Looking at SS combo, chop if after sweep. It should give a positive balance. And it does.
3) Sweep. Looking at MB combo, sweep is after chop. It should give a postive balance. And it does.
4) Repeat.
Now this is probably the easiest combo in the realms. Thing is that to find out how a move is going to affect your balance after a move with our previous hand, look at that move as if you had used it just with that hand. Hope this is clear.
When you use offhand (hmm guess should say a move with weapon in opposite hand that you just used), it just looks at your last combat move. For example, say you used HE in your right hand. Then use a HB in your left hand. To determne your balance after the HB move, it just follows the paths of balance set with HB with your HE move).
Okay, that does seem confusing. Let me show an example that may show my point. As a trader, there is a nice easy combo that I use. My medium blunt in right hand and short staff in left hand. Combo I use is sweep/chop left. I keep my balance optimal (as much as you can for a trader) at all times. Here is why.
Combo is sweep, bash left
Using a combat guide (wish I could remember where, here are some combos for those two weapons:
MB: feint, chop, sweep, draw, slice
SS: feint, draw, slice, sweep, chop
So here is what happens.
1) Sweep first, giving you your balance.
2) Bash left. Looking at SS combo, chop if after sweep. It should give a positive balance. And it does.
3) Sweep. Looking at MB combo, sweep is after chop. It should give a postive balance. And it does.
4) Repeat.
Now this is probably the easiest combo in the realms. Thing is that to find out how a move is going to affect your balance after a move with our previous hand, look at that move as if you had used it just with that hand. Hope this is clear.
>If you know how it goes with just using one weapon, the you know how it goes with two.
This is what I had assumed and said, but he posted that his tests have already disproved this.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
This is what I had assumed and said, but he posted that his tests have already disproved this.
Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus
>>If you know how it goes with just using one weapon, the you know how it goes with two.
My tests proved this as well. For every combination between LE, ME, MB, HB, Halberd (occasionally SS and Pike, though i didn't train them enough to consider these weapons fully 'tested') i ever needed to try.
Merely saying 'my tests have already disproved this' isn't enough to convince me. But i'm still waiting.
My tests proved this as well. For every combination between LE, ME, MB, HB, Halberd (occasionally SS and Pike, though i didn't train them enough to consider these weapons fully 'tested') i ever needed to try.
Merely saying 'my tests have already disproved this' isn't enough to convince me. But i'm still waiting.
Hmmmmm, well that's very strange. After the outpouring of certainty, I went back to check my findings and discovered something fairly odd. When using a heavy blunt in my left hand and a light blunt in my right, if I alternate normal attacks and left attacks I get much more balanced results. Whereas if I simply attack, sheath, draw, attack, I get much less balanced results, that coincide with what you'd expect if previous posters were right.
It was off of this strange result that I based my earlier assertions of the previous weapon mattering. Now, I'm just confused.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
It was off of this strange result that I based my earlier assertions of the previous weapon mattering. Now, I'm just confused.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
