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>>If anyone has ideas for the engagement system -now- is the time to make them known.
Just gonna brainstorm here, no balance thoughts.
Different types of FLEE.
>flee brawl
You quickly realise you've bitten off more than you can chew and need to make a quick escape!
You circle to the left, then quickly back to the right throwing your opponents off balance before turning tail and running for your life!
This would check brawling versus the opponents attack skills with escaping as a modifier, if successful it will knock the opponents off balance and keep you from having a balance hit while fleeing. If you fail, your balance is much worse than it would be on a normal flee attempt and the opponents get a small balance boost.
>flee dirt
Realising the situation has gotten out of hand you decide to run for it!
You turn and bolt away from the fight, stooping down in the process and grabbing a handful of dirt. You quickly throw it behind you to aid in your escape!
A gypsy marauder runs directly into the dirt cloud and begins frantically wiping his eyes!
This would be a dirt maneuver, possibly thief-only. It would decrease the pursuers attack skill and perception, possibly also giving a small (2-5 second) RT.
>flee roll
The battle suddenly turns against you and you make the decision to get out quick!
Seeing an opening in the fight, you leap over the head of the gypsy marauder and fall into a roll behind him, quickly coming to your feet and running for it!
I see this as someone running straight at the bad guy and diving straight over their head and then rolling to their feet behind the bad guy and taking off. Using this flee would put you at the backs of whatever you were fleeing of, instead of the other way around. Obviously you couldn't hit them because you were fleeing, but they would have a penalty to hitting you since you were behind them for the 8-10 seconds.
>flee stun
This looks bad! You better get outta there!
You suddenly swing a fist and hit the gypsy marauder in the side of the head, stunning him while you turn tail and take off in the opposite direction.
Just using your brawling to hit a pressure point and stun one of the enemies at melee with you for a few seconds.
Some of the same ideas for quick advancement. Being able to dive quickly to melee, being able to circle around and take the back of someone that's facing you using brawling, the ability to throw up a dirt cloud and then charge through it, surprising the enemy, etc.
The ability to work with groups, like if I'm advancing on a peccary and someone who is grouped with me advances on the same peccary you'd see like:
You advance on a bristle-backed peccary, moving in step with Teeklin to attack it from different sides.
Putting the peccary off balance or imposing an extra multi penalty, etc.
That's all for now, just throwing ideas out there so speak up if you hate em!
-Teeklin
"Gown Removed Carelessly. Head, less so." - Joss Whedon
I like your ideas, except for the FLEE stuff. As it's intended, if you're fleeing, chances are its your last ditch attempt to avoid dying. Which means you probably aren't going to be able to pull off anything fancy, or you wouldn't be forced to flee in the first place.
However, the ideas themselves are great and could easily be adapted to other circumstances.
For amusement's sake, how about give us a way to roll into battle? Just lie down and roll into all your enemy's ankles knocking them over. Bowling for battle.
* How about a way to advance on two things at once? As you approach one, you swing around its side to place you between it and another thing?
* Brawling charge. Like tackle only you're just slamming into them.
* How about a fake charge? You look like you're about to charge one creature and half-way there you veer off to slam into a different one?
* How about a brawling move to shove one creature into another? Not technically engagement, but it would basically give the other critter a multi penalty because it's having to attack around or bumping elbows with the other one.
* Throwing players into melee. I know my Gor'Tog would love to toss a gnome into close range with an enemy. Or an eloth, kaldar, prydaen... just about anything.
* Horse engagement stuff would be nice... might give a reason to bother with horses.
* Pole-arm fending. The ability to keep someone at pole-range with successful checks.
* Stealth charge. Quickly run up behind them and shove that knife in with the force of your charge. Would have a pretty severe stealth penalty, but could be fun.
* Avoid <room feature, creature, caravan, etc.>. As the X charges at you, you quickly dodge around whatever you chose, breaking their charge. Would be an evasion maneuver set up beforehand.
* Thrown or bow charges. Chuck or fire as you rush in, improves your chances as they are both trying to evade and duck you. Might be especially effective if you throw from offhand with a real weapon in your main hand. Dunno if it would be worth doing it for bows, but some people might find a reason.
* Shield charge. Shield slam, only at a running pace. Possible chance of knocking things over completely.
* Items like caltrops or marbles that you can strew about the floor to prepare it for combat. Makes closing or retreating much more difficult. Can be done beforehand to make it hard to advance, or once you close to make it hard to retreat. Maybe a stealth check for people to notice if its pre-prepared.
* Monkey. Everyone needs a monkey.
* Ability to hamstring, injure the legs, or ruin footwear to make retreating/advancing more difficult.
* Countercharge. Set it up previous to combat like hangback. If they charge and you're not in RT, you charge at them as well. Best man wins. Imagine the carnage, two Togs charge, only one Tog leaves!
* Fix the annoying bug where if you attack inside, it sets them to missile range, but if you advance, they start at pole. Pick one or the other, sheesh!
* Piercing polearm set versus charge.
* Other polearms get an auto-attack vs. charge. Hey, you've got reach, you go first.
Rest of my ideas follow in similar veins, like bolas to make advancing/retreating difficult or impossible.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
However, the ideas themselves are great and could easily be adapted to other circumstances.
For amusement's sake, how about give us a way to roll into battle? Just lie down and roll into all your enemy's ankles knocking them over. Bowling for battle.
* How about a way to advance on two things at once? As you approach one, you swing around its side to place you between it and another thing?
* Brawling charge. Like tackle only you're just slamming into them.
* How about a fake charge? You look like you're about to charge one creature and half-way there you veer off to slam into a different one?
* How about a brawling move to shove one creature into another? Not technically engagement, but it would basically give the other critter a multi penalty because it's having to attack around or bumping elbows with the other one.
* Throwing players into melee. I know my Gor'Tog would love to toss a gnome into close range with an enemy. Or an eloth, kaldar, prydaen... just about anything.
* Horse engagement stuff would be nice... might give a reason to bother with horses.
* Pole-arm fending. The ability to keep someone at pole-range with successful checks.
* Stealth charge. Quickly run up behind them and shove that knife in with the force of your charge. Would have a pretty severe stealth penalty, but could be fun.
* Avoid <room feature, creature, caravan, etc.>. As the X charges at you, you quickly dodge around whatever you chose, breaking their charge. Would be an evasion maneuver set up beforehand.
* Thrown or bow charges. Chuck or fire as you rush in, improves your chances as they are both trying to evade and duck you. Might be especially effective if you throw from offhand with a real weapon in your main hand. Dunno if it would be worth doing it for bows, but some people might find a reason.
* Shield charge. Shield slam, only at a running pace. Possible chance of knocking things over completely.
* Items like caltrops or marbles that you can strew about the floor to prepare it for combat. Makes closing or retreating much more difficult. Can be done beforehand to make it hard to advance, or once you close to make it hard to retreat. Maybe a stealth check for people to notice if its pre-prepared.
* Monkey. Everyone needs a monkey.
* Ability to hamstring, injure the legs, or ruin footwear to make retreating/advancing more difficult.
* Countercharge. Set it up previous to combat like hangback. If they charge and you're not in RT, you charge at them as well. Best man wins. Imagine the carnage, two Togs charge, only one Tog leaves!
* Fix the annoying bug where if you attack inside, it sets them to missile range, but if you advance, they start at pole. Pick one or the other, sheesh!
* Piercing polearm set versus charge.
* Other polearms get an auto-attack vs. charge. Hey, you've got reach, you go first.
Rest of my ideas follow in similar veins, like bolas to make advancing/retreating difficult or impossible.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
<<<<I like your ideas, except for the FLEE stuff. As it's intended, if you're fleeing, chances are its your last ditch attempt to avoid dying. Which means you probably aren't going to be able to pull off anything fancy, or you wouldn't be forced to flee in the first place.>>>>>
You've never seen a movie where someone grabbed a hand full of dirt, threw it at the other person, and fleed? I believe that was one of his ideas listed.
E.
You've never seen a movie where someone grabbed a hand full of dirt, threw it at the other person, and fleed? I believe that was one of his ideas listed.
E.
>>You've never seen a movie where someone grabbed a hand full of dirt, threw it at the other person, and fleed? I believe that was one of his ideas listed.
Oh no, that's not it. It's just within the context of the game, if you're in a bad enough situation you have to flee, I'd seriously question your ability to actually hit with it. At least, with the normal dirt attack.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Oh no, that's not it. It's just within the context of the game, if you're in a bad enough situation you have to flee, I'd seriously question your ability to actually hit with it. At least, with the normal dirt attack.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
I like your ideas too. What might be fun too is a few racial and guild versions of flee:
* I could see barbs and thieves going for a groin kick (flee eggs!) before fleeing.
* I'd like to see halflings and maybe gnomes use a shin kick before fleeing.
* I could see a tog running through thier opponents in a multi situation similar to the way a noseguard tries to get by the gap between the center and guard.
* Dwarves could go with a foot stomp then flee.
* I can see races with tails (I really don't know how long tails are supposed to be though) turning and trying to give a flick or slap with thier tail to discract while fleeing.
Anyway, just a few thoughts off the top of my head.
Norm
* I could see barbs and thieves going for a groin kick (flee eggs!) before fleeing.
* I'd like to see halflings and maybe gnomes use a shin kick before fleeing.
* I could see a tog running through thier opponents in a multi situation similar to the way a noseguard tries to get by the gap between the center and guard.
* Dwarves could go with a foot stomp then flee.
* I can see races with tails (I really don't know how long tails are supposed to be though) turning and trying to give a flick or slap with thier tail to discract while fleeing.
Anyway, just a few thoughts off the top of my head.
Norm
With regard to the engagement system in general, I'm curious as to what is planned or what changes are percieved to be needed.
Specifically, potential changes to retreat and hangback are of concern. I don't often need to retreat because I get in trouble in combat, but in certain areas like orc raiders retreat has proven absolutely vital to activities such as picking up one's treasure and boxes.
The idea that retreating may be changed to take time, and that we may start having to rely on hangback which has in the past always given you a RT as you tried to keep your distance isn't a very comfortable one. While I have faith that the new engagement system will be will designed and not present these problems, I'd just like to make sure such concerns are kept in mind. When you have a small tribe of orcs advancing on you you need to be able to keep your distance and remain functional (RT free) while you gather those 90 gems and 40 boxes lying on the ground ... ;)
Specifically, potential changes to retreat and hangback are of concern. I don't often need to retreat because I get in trouble in combat, but in certain areas like orc raiders retreat has proven absolutely vital to activities such as picking up one's treasure and boxes.
The idea that retreating may be changed to take time, and that we may start having to rely on hangback which has in the past always given you a RT as you tried to keep your distance isn't a very comfortable one. While I have faith that the new engagement system will be will designed and not present these problems, I'd just like to make sure such concerns are kept in mind. When you have a small tribe of orcs advancing on you you need to be able to keep your distance and remain functional (RT free) while you gather those 90 gems and 40 boxes lying on the ground ... ;)
<<I set it up the way I did because I know most people don't have escaping up to level.>>
I just think it's a missed opportunity to help people actually GET escaping up to level.
I suppose I should ask myself whether my character would like to learn escaping using flee, and the answer is probably not.
You may have other irons in the fire I don't know about. In the meantime, I'll keep on escaping from nightstalker unyn webs and learning next to nothing for it, and wandering down to Kartais once in a blue moon.
Happy new year.
Oderint dum metuant.
I just think it's a missed opportunity to help people actually GET escaping up to level.
I suppose I should ask myself whether my character would like to learn escaping using flee, and the answer is probably not.
You may have other irons in the fire I don't know about. In the meantime, I'll keep on escaping from nightstalker unyn webs and learning next to nothing for it, and wandering down to Kartais once in a blue moon.
Happy new year.
Oderint dum metuant.
>You can get escaping up to level if you want. You may just have to move critters. It may not be convenient but it a feasible way and creates less problems.
Except that like I posted, catching escaping up to your other combat skills will not help you learn escaping that much. So you can't really "catch escaping" up to level. The concept seems somewhat meaningless to me. shrug
Except that like I posted, catching escaping up to your other combat skills will not help you learn escaping that much. So you can't really "catch escaping" up to level. The concept seems somewhat meaningless to me. shrug
Here's a suggestion for the engagement rewrite:
1) make charging a specific attack, rather than the result of an attack while advancing. That would give pole users the option to attack when they hit pole-range.
2) Redo RT for charging. Right now it makes no sense, since you don't charge any faster with a smaller weapon. Instead of a different RT for each weapon, set a charge RT which gets added to your normal attack RT. This is different from the current setup where knife which normally has a 2 second attack has a 3 second charge, while a 4 RT club has 9 second charge RT.
Just two beginning ideas.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
1) make charging a specific attack, rather than the result of an attack while advancing. That would give pole users the option to attack when they hit pole-range.
2) Redo RT for charging. Right now it makes no sense, since you don't charge any faster with a smaller weapon. Instead of a different RT for each weapon, set a charge RT which gets added to your normal attack RT. This is different from the current setup where knife which normally has a 2 second attack has a 3 second charge, while a 4 RT club has 9 second charge RT.
Just two beginning ideas.
Magic's Death Caraamon M.,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
