Previous Thread
Previous
Expand All
Collapse All
Ignore Author
Reply
>I will be a fan of any solution that would allow people to dance with critters however they like without ruining my weapon experience.
Room specific spawn ratio's per hunter have some rooms a 2:1 some 3:1 and the higher tiers at 4:1 allowing the 3:1 an either the 4:1 or 2:1 to toggle back and forth at random intervals or bases on kill time ratios maybe I dunno. I'm in favor of crank it to 11 myself.
-The Forsaken Rakash
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Khiol
>>Equilibrium - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I fire off there's 4 people and 4-8 creatures." so it decides, you know what, that sounds good.
>Isn't this what we have now in certain hunting areas that cause complaints?
>2 people dancing with 4 each = 8, 2 people twiddling their thumbs.
That example wasn't as clear as it could have been. Let me clarify:
Every 40 seconds the spawn fires. It tries to keep a 3 to 1 ratio. Every time it fires it finds how many players there are, how many creatures there are, and restores this ratio.
Underpopulation - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I've looked lately there's 4 people and 11-12 creatures. Normally I'd spawn 0-1 creatures, since I want a 3:1 ratio, but I'm going to spawn 2 this time. If it happens again I'll spawn 3. And again? I'll spawn 4. And I'll keep increasing that until we hit 4:1 and see how that looks."
Equilibrium - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I fire off there's 4 people and 4-8 creatures. Sounds good to me, let's spawn 4-8 more to get us back to 3:1" (This is how it works currently. This is NOT the scenario with people tying up spawn dancing and not killing, that's an underpopulation scenario).
Overpopulation - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I fire off there's 4 people and 0-2 creatures. Wow so, uh, yeah, that last batch didn't last very long. Instead of spawning the 10-12 I normally would to get us back to a 3:1, I'm going to only spawn 9. Huh. Still all instantly died? Let's only spawn 8. Yup, still being slaughtered. Let's do that until our we stop getting instantly murdered the moment we pop our heads out the ground."
Since this is the scenario everyone is worried about, I'll expand. Say the above happens - You have 4 people in the hunting area, 1 is a normal guy just trying to hunt. The other is a guy with two mules to force spawn hosing everything down the moment it spawns. What happens then spawn slows down? Let's look at it closer, and assume the creatures always spawn in the room with the players at a perfectly even split (not exactly how it works, but good for this example).
Start conditions:
Farmer + Mules = 3 people w/9 creatures. Every spawn he'll kill every creature in his room.
JoeHunter = 1 player w/3 creatures. Every spawn he'll kill 1 creature in his room.
Spawn #1:
Pre-spawn population = 2
Target = 12 (4 x 3)
Delta = 10
10 creatures spawn. Everyone gets 2.5.
JoeHunter = 4-5 creatures
Farmer = 7-8 creatures
JoeHunter is over the engagement cap so the remainder wander off and eventually find the farmer, who murders them. (Again, this isn't exactly how it works, but it's close enough for the example). All further calculations assume this happens.
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
Spawn #2:
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 12 (4 x 3)
Delta = 9
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
This repeats for awhile.
Spawn #10 - the dynamic spawn rate starts to kick in, since every time it looks it's replacing a large chunk of it's population. It decides to drop the ratio to 2.9:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 11.6 (4 x 2.9) = 12 (We'll use traditional rounding from here on out and shan't mention integer math).
Delta = 9
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
Spawn #11 - the dynamic spawn rate sees that it's still replacing the bulk of it's creatures every pulse, so it drops the ratio to 2.8:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 11.2 = 11
Delta = 8
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 7 creatures
Spawn #12 - Still all dying? Hrh. Down to 2.7:1 we go!
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10.8 = 11
Delta = 8
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 7 creatures
Spawn #13 - Down to 2.6:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10.4 = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #14 - Down to 2.5:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #15 - Down to 2.4:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 9.6 = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #16 - Down to 2.3:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 9.2 = 9
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #17 - Down to 2.2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8.8 = 9
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #18 - Down to 2.1:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8.4 = 8
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 4 creatures
Spawn #19 - Down to 2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 4 creatures
And we stay at that level until a smaller % of the creatures are dying with every spawn at which point the spawn rate starts to turn back up. Let's say JillHunter shows up, who also kills 1 creature every spawn.
Spawn #30 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10 (We have a 5th person now)
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 1 creature
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #31 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 2 creature (This time Joe's spawn wandered to Jill, or she was one of the 3 people who gets a second creature. Either way.)
Farmer = 4 creatures
Spawn #32 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 4 (Remember, Jill has one that lives now)
Target = 10
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 3 creature (Again, Jill picks up one of the spares)
Farmer = 3 creatures
Spawn #33 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 5 (Joe has 3, Jill has 2)
Target = 10
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 3 creature
Farmer = 3 creatures
At this point we're again at a steady state, but since we're only replenishing 50% of the creatures each time the spawn rate would start to curve back up.
Again, these aren't anywhere near finalized numbers and the above spawn # are purely illustrative, but hey should convey the general idea.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
>Isn't this what we have now in certain hunting areas that cause complaints?
>2 people dancing with 4 each = 8, 2 people twiddling their thumbs.
That example wasn't as clear as it could have been. Let me clarify:
Every 40 seconds the spawn fires. It tries to keep a 3 to 1 ratio. Every time it fires it finds how many players there are, how many creatures there are, and restores this ratio.
Underpopulation - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I've looked lately there's 4 people and 11-12 creatures. Normally I'd spawn 0-1 creatures, since I want a 3:1 ratio, but I'm going to spawn 2 this time. If it happens again I'll spawn 3. And again? I'll spawn 4. And I'll keep increasing that until we hit 4:1 and see how that looks."
Equilibrium - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I fire off there's 4 people and 4-8 creatures. Sounds good to me, let's spawn 4-8 more to get us back to 3:1" (This is how it works currently. This is NOT the scenario with people tying up spawn dancing and not killing, that's an underpopulation scenario).
Overpopulation - The spawn evaluates the hunting ground and says, "There's 4 people here and every time I fire off there's 4 people and 0-2 creatures. Wow so, uh, yeah, that last batch didn't last very long. Instead of spawning the 10-12 I normally would to get us back to a 3:1, I'm going to only spawn 9. Huh. Still all instantly died? Let's only spawn 8. Yup, still being slaughtered. Let's do that until our we stop getting instantly murdered the moment we pop our heads out the ground."
Since this is the scenario everyone is worried about, I'll expand. Say the above happens - You have 4 people in the hunting area, 1 is a normal guy just trying to hunt. The other is a guy with two mules to force spawn hosing everything down the moment it spawns. What happens then spawn slows down? Let's look at it closer, and assume the creatures always spawn in the room with the players at a perfectly even split (not exactly how it works, but good for this example).
Start conditions:
Farmer + Mules = 3 people w/9 creatures. Every spawn he'll kill every creature in his room.
JoeHunter = 1 player w/3 creatures. Every spawn he'll kill 1 creature in his room.
Spawn #1:
Pre-spawn population = 2
Target = 12 (4 x 3)
Delta = 10
10 creatures spawn. Everyone gets 2.5.
JoeHunter = 4-5 creatures
Farmer = 7-8 creatures
JoeHunter is over the engagement cap so the remainder wander off and eventually find the farmer, who murders them. (Again, this isn't exactly how it works, but it's close enough for the example). All further calculations assume this happens.
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
Spawn #2:
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 12 (4 x 3)
Delta = 9
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
This repeats for awhile.
Spawn #10 - the dynamic spawn rate starts to kick in, since every time it looks it's replacing a large chunk of it's population. It decides to drop the ratio to 2.9:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 11.6 (4 x 2.9) = 12 (We'll use traditional rounding from here on out and shan't mention integer math).
Delta = 9
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 8 creatures
Spawn #11 - the dynamic spawn rate sees that it's still replacing the bulk of it's creatures every pulse, so it drops the ratio to 2.8:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 11.2 = 11
Delta = 8
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 7 creatures
Spawn #12 - Still all dying? Hrh. Down to 2.7:1 we go!
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10.8 = 11
Delta = 8
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 7 creatures
Spawn #13 - Down to 2.6:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10.4 = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #14 - Down to 2.5:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #15 - Down to 2.4:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 9.6 = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 6 creatures
Spawn #16 - Down to 2.3:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 9.2 = 9
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #17 - Down to 2.2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8.8 = 9
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #18 - Down to 2.1:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8.4 = 8
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 4 creatures
Spawn #19 - Down to 2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 8
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
Farmer = 4 creatures
And we stay at that level until a smaller % of the creatures are dying with every spawn at which point the spawn rate starts to turn back up. Let's say JillHunter shows up, who also kills 1 creature every spawn.
Spawn #30 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10 (We have a 5th person now)
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 1 creature
Farmer = 5 creatures
Spawn #31 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 3
Target = 10
Delta = 7
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 2 creature (This time Joe's spawn wandered to Jill, or she was one of the 3 people who gets a second creature. Either way.)
Farmer = 4 creatures
Spawn #32 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 4 (Remember, Jill has one that lives now)
Target = 10
Delta = 6
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 3 creature (Again, Jill picks up one of the spares)
Farmer = 3 creatures
Spawn #33 - @2:1
Pre-spawn population = 5 (Joe has 3, Jill has 2)
Target = 10
Delta = 5
JoeHunter = 4 creatures
JillHunter = 3 creature
Farmer = 3 creatures
At this point we're again at a steady state, but since we're only replenishing 50% of the creatures each time the spawn rate would start to curve back up.
Again, these aren't anywhere near finalized numbers and the above spawn # are purely illustrative, but hey should convey the general idea.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Raesh, I'd like to say that the occasional rush of getting mobbed by a pileup of critters is fun. I hope in the process of attaining equilibrium that kind of situation isn't eliminated.
I've never had more excitement hunting than I have since I moved to gryphons by shard. The shear number of people passing through the area makes it incredibly awesomely fun to play. I'd like to see more hunting grounds like that, not less.
<<"earning too little skinning experience for a day or so isn't nearly as bad as having a spell that breaks your wings."
>> Raesh's post
I disagree with the idea that we need spawn controls - I think loot scaling would do a lot more to alleviate the problem of farming than anything else. This would include boxes, which currently pay out much better than normal gem/coin loot and still a lot better than skins, at least at the high end.
Crank it to 11 on everything and standardize spawn mechanics for every critter.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
I disagree with the idea that we need spawn controls - I think loot scaling would do a lot more to alleviate the problem of farming than anything else. This would include boxes, which currently pay out much better than normal gem/coin loot and still a lot better than skins, at least at the high end.
Crank it to 11 on everything and standardize spawn mechanics for every critter.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
>>I disagree with the idea that we need spawn controls - I think loot scaling would do a lot more to alleviate the problem of farming than anything else.
Farming is only half the issue, camping is the other half, and fixing the bell curve of loot generation does nothing to solve the issue of lazy scripters parking three alts in a hunting spot and never killing anything.
Farming is only half the issue, camping is the other half, and fixing the bell curve of loot generation does nothing to solve the issue of lazy scripters parking three alts in a hunting spot and never killing anything.
>>Farming is only half the issue, camping is the other half, and fixing the bell curve of loot generation does nothing to solve the issue of lazy scripters parking three alts in a hunting spot and never killing anything.
I am against punishing the majority at the expense of the few concepts. If spawn was just 4 per, no one would cry about Person A etc hogging all the spawn. I personally do not farm with a crew. I personally have no problem with farmers. If some dude wants to pay up to 50 bucks a month per account on like 10 accounts, more power to that guy. Each of his characters has paid their admission to hunt to their hearts' content. All that revenue is good for the game, not bad.
As for the concern of getting owned by 4 critters, we all have been playing long enough now to know exactly what to hunt and how to hunt. If anyone is an expert on hunting, it is the playerbase. I think we're all very competent at managing our characters and their hunting adventures, and the biggest complaint I ever see recurring is spawning issues. Please consider just giving us what we want. If it is too hardcore, maybe segment hunting grounds for entry level, moderate and hardcore mode.
That said, I am icredibly grateful for your insight and desire to keep moving things forward, Raesh. I love that you have taken a ton of time throughout the years to hear us out and implement some incredible improvements.
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
I am against punishing the majority at the expense of the few concepts. If spawn was just 4 per, no one would cry about Person A etc hogging all the spawn. I personally do not farm with a crew. I personally have no problem with farmers. If some dude wants to pay up to 50 bucks a month per account on like 10 accounts, more power to that guy. Each of his characters has paid their admission to hunt to their hearts' content. All that revenue is good for the game, not bad.
As for the concern of getting owned by 4 critters, we all have been playing long enough now to know exactly what to hunt and how to hunt. If anyone is an expert on hunting, it is the playerbase. I think we're all very competent at managing our characters and their hunting adventures, and the biggest complaint I ever see recurring is spawning issues. Please consider just giving us what we want. If it is too hardcore, maybe segment hunting grounds for entry level, moderate and hardcore mode.
That said, I am icredibly grateful for your insight and desire to keep moving things forward, Raesh. I love that you have taken a ton of time throughout the years to hear us out and implement some incredible improvements.
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
>>I am against punishing the majority at the expense of the few concepts. If spawn was just 4 per, no one would cry about Person A etc hogging all the spawn. I personally do not farm with a crew. I personally have no problem with farmers. If some dude wants to pay up to 50 bucks a month per account on like 10 accounts, more power to that guy. Each of his characters has paid their admission to hunt to their hearts' content. All that revenue is good for the game, not bad.
I don't really care about them camping either (though the GMs might), I just care about sitting on my butt 3/4 of the time with no critters to kill. An infrequent problem, but most definitely a problem when it does occur.
There are other solutions. Upping the gen to 4 per would work in most hunting grounds.
I don't really care about them camping either (though the GMs might), I just care about sitting on my butt 3/4 of the time with no critters to kill. An infrequent problem, but most definitely a problem when it does occur.
There are other solutions. Upping the gen to 4 per would work in most hunting grounds.
I'm finding it interesting that from what I can see the people who seem mostly against this Spawnrates readjustments are the people that have fine tuned scripts are typically the HLCs. Basically the people that are most likely to adapt to the setup soonest.
Your not getting punished, everyone is going to have to deal with the same setup.
Personally I like the concepts.
And if a GM feels the inspiration to tackle it, go for it!
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Your not getting punished, everyone is going to have to deal with the same setup.
Personally I like the concepts.
And if a GM feels the inspiration to tackle it, go for it!
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>> I'm finding it interesting that from what I can see the people who seem mostly against this Spawnrates readjustments are the people that have fine tuned scripts are typically the HLCs. Basically the people that are most likely to adapt to the setup soonest.
HLCs write better scripts? Huh? What are you talking about?
I don't like the idea that one person kills too fast, I end up seeing a decreased spawn. If there's 8 critters to go around and 2 people hunting, taking away 1 is going to hit him half the time, and me half the time. Taking away 2 is going to hit us both. That's punishment.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
HLCs write better scripts? Huh? What are you talking about?
I don't like the idea that one person kills too fast, I end up seeing a decreased spawn. If there's 8 critters to go around and 2 people hunting, taking away 1 is going to hit him half the time, and me half the time. Taking away 2 is going to hit us both. That's punishment.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
>>I'm finding it interesting that from what I can see the people who seem mostly against this Spawnrates readjustments are the people that have fine tuned scripts are typically the HLCs. Basically the people that are most likely to adapt to the setup soonest.<<
People being against it has nothing to do with being an HLC.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
People being against it has nothing to do with being an HLC.
Your body tightens as you draw your arms together in a sinuous, flowing motion, mimicking the form you were trained to adopt for this roar of warning.
Kodius fled to the west in terror!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
>>4:1 should not be the default combat state, it makes balancing things extremely difficulty.
So confusing. This game has been dance with 4 for quite a few years now, before that it was dance with 8 or however many you wanted. It feels like we are going backwards here...
I believe you btw, just ouch, less spawn = less fun to pretty much everyone I Think
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
So confusing. This game has been dance with 4 for quite a few years now, before that it was dance with 8 or however many you wanted. It feels like we are going backwards here...
I believe you btw, just ouch, less spawn = less fun to pretty much everyone I Think
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>I'm finding it interesting that from what I can see the people who seem mostly against this Spawnrates readjustments are the people that have fine tuned scripts are typically the HLCs. Basically the people that are most likely to adapt to the setup soonest.
Ya, my 'massive' level 40 cleric really colors my judgement. As well as my 'downloaded it from the repository' scripts.
>So confusing. This game has been dance with 4 for quite a few years now, before that it was dance with 8 or however many you wanted. It feels like we are going backwards here...
I've no clue where the GMs are heading with all this, but I'm sure we'll be told it's all for the best, they know what they're doing, and shut up because they're going to do it that way.
I can freely admit that, at least 3/4 of the time, that works out fine, and it just takes time and effort to reallize the plan.
But that remaining 1/4 gives us real gems.
Pants.
Ya, my 'massive' level 40 cleric really colors my judgement. As well as my 'downloaded it from the repository' scripts.
>So confusing. This game has been dance with 4 for quite a few years now, before that it was dance with 8 or however many you wanted. It feels like we are going backwards here...
I've no clue where the GMs are heading with all this, but I'm sure we'll be told it's all for the best, they know what they're doing, and shut up because they're going to do it that way.
I can freely admit that, at least 3/4 of the time, that works out fine, and it just takes time and effort to reallize the plan.
But that remaining 1/4 gives us real gems.
Pants.
Just food for thought. Has anyone added up the amount of revenue generated by the folks being "attacked" in this thread? I have seen farmers of coins , farmers that need skins to make things, and HLC'S all attacked here. May i point out that those users probably control 50% or more of the accounts in this game? I fear that if these folks are run off to improve the game... there is no game. Just something to think about.
>>Just food for thought. Has anyone added up the amount of revenue generated by the folks being "attacked" in this thread? I have seen farmers of coins , farmers that need skins to make things, and HLC'S all attacked here. May i point out that those users probably control 50% or more of the accounts in this game? I fear that if these folks are run off to improve the game... there is no game. Just something to think about.
During peak hours there can be 500+ players in the game. I think you highly overestimate how much of the population is present on the the billboards, much less only billboard users with multiple accounts. Multi-account users I am sure do represent a significant portion of the population,but I think 50% would be a huge stretch.
During peak hours there can be 500+ players in the game. I think you highly overestimate how much of the population is present on the the billboards, much less only billboard users with multiple accounts. Multi-account users I am sure do represent a significant portion of the population,but I think 50% would be a huge stretch.
Lets just say the avg is 4 accounts per person. Thats conservative im sure, since i know at least 3 people with 15 plus accounts. that means during peak hours of 500, which is the real overestimate , since 500 hasnt been seen in YEARS. That would be 125 people controlling 500 accounts. You dont think 62.5 people are farming, dancing, or HLC's in some form or another? LOL
>>I don't like the idea that one person kills too fast, I end up seeing a decreased spawn.
I like the concepts that Raesh posted, but I agree more with the above statement. The absolute most important thing for spawns rates should be:
I should still get a reasonable spawn rate in my room, regardless of how fast or slow other people around me are killing their creatures. Right now "reasonable" is 3-4 creatures in the room at all times. The definition of reasonable could change if defensive skills were rebalanced to train effectively in 1v1 combat, but right now 3+ are required to train effectively
As long as my ability to train doesn't get killed by what other people around me do, I'm on board with any changes they make
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
I like the concepts that Raesh posted, but I agree more with the above statement. The absolute most important thing for spawns rates should be:
I should still get a reasonable spawn rate in my room, regardless of how fast or slow other people around me are killing their creatures. Right now "reasonable" is 3-4 creatures in the room at all times. The definition of reasonable could change if defensive skills were rebalanced to train effectively in 1v1 combat, but right now 3+ are required to train effectively
As long as my ability to train doesn't get killed by what other people around me do, I'm on board with any changes they make
Apu
_
Respect. Integrity. World Domination.
https://sites.google.com/site/apucorpdr/
>Lets just say the avg is 4 accounts per person. Thats conservative im sure, since i know at least 3 people with 15 plus accounts. that means during peak hours of 500, which is the real overestimate , since 500 hasnt been seen in YEARS. That would be 125 people controlling 500 accounts. You dont think 62.5 people are farming, dancing, or HLC's in some form or another? LOL
I can promise the average is not 4 accounts per person. That's not how averages work, even if there are 3-4 players with 15 accounts and dozens of players with multiple accounts. Over a period of ten years, I am vaguely acquainted with probably 100+ players who play, most of whom have no more than 2 accounts, and most still no more than 1. You must remember that even if peak hours are 400-500 players (not an uncommon figure), that means there are probably 2000+ accounts active at any given time, and a pool of thousands more players that only have an account that they re-activate sporadically for every year or two.
Players with crazy amounts of accounts certainly do skew the sample average, but if you mean a representative sample of the whole population of everyone who has played in the last two years, I would guess the average is probably half that (2 per person), if not 1.5 to 1.75.
I can promise the average is not 4 accounts per person. That's not how averages work, even if there are 3-4 players with 15 accounts and dozens of players with multiple accounts. Over a period of ten years, I am vaguely acquainted with probably 100+ players who play, most of whom have no more than 2 accounts, and most still no more than 1. You must remember that even if peak hours are 400-500 players (not an uncommon figure), that means there are probably 2000+ accounts active at any given time, and a pool of thousands more players that only have an account that they re-activate sporadically for every year or two.
Players with crazy amounts of accounts certainly do skew the sample average, but if you mean a representative sample of the whole population of everyone who has played in the last two years, I would guess the average is probably half that (2 per person), if not 1.5 to 1.75.
Give players control over their own spawn. Analogous pattern call of the siren and barb war horns for all guilds. Put the choice in our hands. While you are at it you could make it interesting by having random effects like breaking engagement caps or debuffs etc, basically make it risky but still worthwhile.
Seriously. Make it a ritual spell with components price based on creatures circle. Bam, emergent game play with a money sink. Chance to summon a boss (hi kodius), chance for no flee 30 secs. Etc etc.
Seriously. Make it a ritual spell with components price based on creatures circle. Bam, emergent game play with a money sink. Chance to summon a boss (hi kodius), chance for no flee 30 secs. Etc etc.
>>4:1 should not be the default combat state, it makes balancing things extremely difficulty.
While I very much get the idea behind this statement, I find I either have to dance with 4 slightly underhunting to learn, or if I move up I can't kill nearly fast enough to prevent four from pounding the snot out of me. Thats not counting areas like Assassins that are cranked up for the folks that need the weapon exp. Maybe its a side effect of Weapon Sec/TM tert vs Armor prime, but fighting 4 has been a hard reality for me for a long time.
Samsaren
While I very much get the idea behind this statement, I find I either have to dance with 4 slightly underhunting to learn, or if I move up I can't kill nearly fast enough to prevent four from pounding the snot out of me. Thats not counting areas like Assassins that are cranked up for the folks that need the weapon exp. Maybe its a side effect of Weapon Sec/TM tert vs Armor prime, but fighting 4 has been a hard reality for me for a long time.
Samsaren
Raesh, have an idea, but I don't know if it would work I guess.
I am going to make some assumptions like I know what I am talking about below, but I really don't know anything they are just assumptions. Keep that in mind. These ideas are strictly regarding discouraging farming.
When you attack a creature it generates exp bits for the attack. It gives those bits to the character for whatever weapon skill they were using. On the last attack, that kills the critter, the same thing happens with the exp bits. However, some other processes kick off probably controlling how the critter dies etc. Upon looting the critter, the treasure system kicks off, probably generates a value within a certain range, probably with a random modifier of some sort. With this in mind, here are two ideas.
A. Diminishing returns
On the last attack, the critter dies, generates exp bits. Hold this value with the corpse object. If the bit value is lower than the intended hunting range, convert it to a percentage. The percentage is than applied as a treasure modifier upon looting the critter. Therefore, the closer someone gets to hitting the hard cap on the critter, the less treasure that is generated. If 0 experience is generated, the treasure hopper returns 0 as well. This assumes that you can keep the bit value and pass it onto the treasure system as a modifier.
B. Shutoff treasure. No diminishing returns, just this: If 0 experience is generated, the treasure hopper returns 0 as well.
This would allow people to still back train weapons and get treasure, because the lower weapon would still generate experience. So someone could essentially Kill with a lower weapon and generate treasure. Pull out a higher weapon and generate less or even 0 treasure if the weapon is past the hard cap.
One problem I do see with this is back training boxes. Which may not be a problem, as long as the person at least has on weapon in that range...
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
I am going to make some assumptions like I know what I am talking about below, but I really don't know anything they are just assumptions. Keep that in mind. These ideas are strictly regarding discouraging farming.
When you attack a creature it generates exp bits for the attack. It gives those bits to the character for whatever weapon skill they were using. On the last attack, that kills the critter, the same thing happens with the exp bits. However, some other processes kick off probably controlling how the critter dies etc. Upon looting the critter, the treasure system kicks off, probably generates a value within a certain range, probably with a random modifier of some sort. With this in mind, here are two ideas.
A. Diminishing returns
On the last attack, the critter dies, generates exp bits. Hold this value with the corpse object. If the bit value is lower than the intended hunting range, convert it to a percentage. The percentage is than applied as a treasure modifier upon looting the critter. Therefore, the closer someone gets to hitting the hard cap on the critter, the less treasure that is generated. If 0 experience is generated, the treasure hopper returns 0 as well. This assumes that you can keep the bit value and pass it onto the treasure system as a modifier.
B. Shutoff treasure. No diminishing returns, just this: If 0 experience is generated, the treasure hopper returns 0 as well.
This would allow people to still back train weapons and get treasure, because the lower weapon would still generate experience. So someone could essentially Kill with a lower weapon and generate treasure. Pull out a higher weapon and generate less or even 0 treasure if the weapon is past the hard cap.
One problem I do see with this is back training boxes. Which may not be a problem, as long as the person at least has on weapon in that range...
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
So if i go into rockies to backtrain some weapon for funsies, even though I hunt warklin, and 2 low levelers are there, i could obliterate their hunting by killing mobs to fast and driving down the spawn rate. Once I see the well is dry I could leave to another lowbie hunting area and do the same thing. As a high level character, I can move around and get in and of areas very easily, where as young and more fragile players cant/dont know/etc.
I dont think turning DOWN the spawn is going to be healthy for the game. I think stable or turning up the spawn makes sense, but thats about it.
If you want more incentive to make people spread out and hunt things, I would suggest looking at why people dont hunt in certain areas. Like for instance, its a pain in the ass to get to the beasts east of River Haven. Theres a maze, a few long duration 'travel rooms', hunting in water has loads of issues (prevents foraging, rt for moving around, but the swim check is so low that no one hunting here could learn anything from doing so). Getting to and from this area makes it undesirable, and the payout isnt 'worth' the hassle, then why do it?
Theres a reason people flood to the same hunting grounds and milk them as long as possible before moving on to other hunting grounds. I readily accepted a long time of bad exp leaching exp from gryphons because I found the alternatives just unattractive. It wasnt a risk thing, it was a hassle thing. I could hunt celps in ratha for instance but because they gen 'super celps' so often in there (which at that time I couldnt hit readily, even if they wernt hurting me) I found it unattractive to hunt there despite the better pay out and exp.
There are also just gaps in the hunting ladder by province, so you have people under hunting because they dont want to move for RP reasons.
I dont think turning DOWN the spawn is going to be healthy for the game. I think stable or turning up the spawn makes sense, but thats about it.
If you want more incentive to make people spread out and hunt things, I would suggest looking at why people dont hunt in certain areas. Like for instance, its a pain in the ass to get to the beasts east of River Haven. Theres a maze, a few long duration 'travel rooms', hunting in water has loads of issues (prevents foraging, rt for moving around, but the swim check is so low that no one hunting here could learn anything from doing so). Getting to and from this area makes it undesirable, and the payout isnt 'worth' the hassle, then why do it?
Theres a reason people flood to the same hunting grounds and milk them as long as possible before moving on to other hunting grounds. I readily accepted a long time of bad exp leaching exp from gryphons because I found the alternatives just unattractive. It wasnt a risk thing, it was a hassle thing. I could hunt celps in ratha for instance but because they gen 'super celps' so often in there (which at that time I couldnt hit readily, even if they wernt hurting me) I found it unattractive to hunt there despite the better pay out and exp.
There are also just gaps in the hunting ladder by province, so you have people under hunting because they dont want to move for RP reasons.
Raesh,
You have to train for too long to make progress for people to want to hunt in places where 3 is ok but 4 is too many (or 2 is ok but 3 is too many). Some of my combat ranks need 10 hours of pulses or more to rank, and progress is measured in the hundreds of ranks. For some people I'm sure it's worse. To use my character as an example, I could probably fight tooth and nail for those ranks in Drakes but that quickly loses its novelty and just becomes grinding with less payoff and more difficulty than Assassins.
You have to train for too long to make progress for people to want to hunt in places where 3 is ok but 4 is too many (or 2 is ok but 3 is too many). Some of my combat ranks need 10 hours of pulses or more to rank, and progress is measured in the hundreds of ranks. For some people I'm sure it's worse. To use my character as an example, I could probably fight tooth and nail for those ranks in Drakes but that quickly loses its novelty and just becomes grinding with less payoff and more difficulty than Assassins.
>>I don't get why it is so important to effectively force people to hunt something else. I'd rather resources be focused on finishing guild abilities to completion and cleaning up existing bugs.
This.
Plus, admittedly it's early but it seems like the supposed problem here is a couple people using 3+ accounts to commit gryphon genocide for scrolls, and the proposed solution is to punish the whole game with crappy spawn? Can't you just go after the people farming with multiple accounts if that's what you guys don't like? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm looking at this from the standpoint of someone who has to "underhunt" for boxes since dillos still haven't figured out how to carry them. To me, the issue (traditionally) was always one person hogging all the spawn to sit there dancing forever, but ever since the six per area spawns were fixed (or I outgrew them), it hasn't been an issue for me. Except in resus, my god the spawn in there is horrible. Anyway, carry on.
This.
Plus, admittedly it's early but it seems like the supposed problem here is a couple people using 3+ accounts to commit gryphon genocide for scrolls, and the proposed solution is to punish the whole game with crappy spawn? Can't you just go after the people farming with multiple accounts if that's what you guys don't like? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm looking at this from the standpoint of someone who has to "underhunt" for boxes since dillos still haven't figured out how to carry them. To me, the issue (traditionally) was always one person hogging all the spawn to sit there dancing forever, but ever since the six per area spawns were fixed (or I outgrew them), it hasn't been an issue for me. Except in resus, my god the spawn in there is horrible. Anyway, carry on.
I am sorry, but I highly doubt many people are farming (I am thinking of this as a year-round concept) in an area where they are not progressing in such a manner that allows them to circle/keep gaining defensive ranks etc. I hate the idea of lowering loot/nullifying it altogether if you are over critter caps/fast approaching them. And if this concept is to merely police people who are going against the grain of what I just said, then yes, I do believe it punishes the many for the "sins" of the few.
Sometimes it is plain fun to go mow crap down. Also, it is nice to farm some parts of the year for certain things, such as fests, auctions, gem box game stuff, parts for craftable items, that awesome piece of gear in that one shop, etc. All of us do it. Let's not forget that. It is part of the fun of the game and a ton of it just goes back into the system.
To be quite honest, I am not sure I'd continue playing this game if it started getting to the point where I had only 2 critters spawning in my room and/or little to no treasure. I also highly doubt I am the only one who feels this way. I am not sure if I have ever in all my time reading the boards read a post where someone was like please lower critter spawn and loot output. I still think the issue is dude A is dancing with 4 critters, I am getting only 2--please crank it to 4. I am confused as to why this is off the table and how it will make balancing things extremely difficult. There already exist some areas where people hunt 4 critters per (Rossman gryphons, I'm looking at you, for instance). All those people are doing just fine.
Maybe part of the issue is things die too slowly now, if anything, therefore you are stuck with 4 on you longer than you'd like (if you are "overhunting"). Coin gain has been drastically decreased by length of time it takes to kill something and the pewter barpaloozafest.
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
Sometimes it is plain fun to go mow crap down. Also, it is nice to farm some parts of the year for certain things, such as fests, auctions, gem box game stuff, parts for craftable items, that awesome piece of gear in that one shop, etc. All of us do it. Let's not forget that. It is part of the fun of the game and a ton of it just goes back into the system.
To be quite honest, I am not sure I'd continue playing this game if it started getting to the point where I had only 2 critters spawning in my room and/or little to no treasure. I also highly doubt I am the only one who feels this way. I am not sure if I have ever in all my time reading the boards read a post where someone was like please lower critter spawn and loot output. I still think the issue is dude A is dancing with 4 critters, I am getting only 2--please crank it to 4. I am confused as to why this is off the table and how it will make balancing things extremely difficult. There already exist some areas where people hunt 4 critters per (Rossman gryphons, I'm looking at you, for instance). All those people are doing just fine.
Maybe part of the issue is things die too slowly now, if anything, therefore you are stuck with 4 on you longer than you'd like (if you are "overhunting"). Coin gain has been drastically decreased by length of time it takes to kill something and the pewter barpaloozafest.
"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar
>>JARAGONA Post
Well said.
No slowing down of the economy (which is already SIGNIFICANTLY slower due to all the ore and most mobs taking twice as many hits to kill) is going to fix the economy. Proper game economies have money sinks; DR has none. The focus here would be better spent on making systems like alchemy and enchanting that we can drop our plats into forever and ever.
Well said.
No slowing down of the economy (which is already SIGNIFICANTLY slower due to all the ore and most mobs taking twice as many hits to kill) is going to fix the economy. Proper game economies have money sinks; DR has none. The focus here would be better spent on making systems like alchemy and enchanting that we can drop our plats into forever and ever.
I feel one of the biggest money sinks would be stat respecs. Initial cost based on total sum of stats, with a graduating cost based on how frequently you respec. Maybe put the reset timer on 12 or 6 months (with a gradual decay).
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Gotta say I agree completely with everything Jara, Codiax, and Gort have said.
But Apu said it best:
>As long as my ability to train doesn't get killed by what other people around me do, I'm on board with any changes they make
That said, I'm having a hard time believing this is about farming for treasure system drops. I feel like there's an issue (or issues) the staff is trying to address with this that we're not hearing.
>>I feel like there's an issue (or issues) the staff is trying to address with this that we're not hearing.
I think there are several issues that have been address, just not in this thread. Some people are plat farming, some people are under hunting and dancing to suck spawn, some people are using mules, treasure is out of balance, boxes aren't scaling, etc.
I think more than anything, the goal Raesh is looking for is a uniform spawn system across all critters. Then things can be tweaked easier as a system, then as critter by critter.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
I think there are several issues that have been address, just not in this thread. Some people are plat farming, some people are under hunting and dancing to suck spawn, some people are using mules, treasure is out of balance, boxes aren't scaling, etc.
I think more than anything, the goal Raesh is looking for is a uniform spawn system across all critters. Then things can be tweaked easier as a system, then as critter by critter.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
Actually my main goal is to solve the 3:1 problem with people killing hunting areas, but everyone seems to want to focus on the other side of the equation instead. ::shrugs::
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
You missed one, and it's been elaborated elsewhere:
critter design is based on a 1:1 fighting style, that's how the GMs set them up and code them. It is my guess they are trying to help the system push people to fighting at that ratio so that critters are truer to how they were designed in game, instead of being a 1:11 ratio or whatever people want the spawn rate cranking them at.
Also probably the quote I have from GM Socharis in my signature is probably another deal.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
critter design is based on a 1:1 fighting style, that's how the GMs set them up and code them. It is my guess they are trying to help the system push people to fighting at that ratio so that critters are truer to how they were designed in game, instead of being a 1:11 ratio or whatever people want the spawn rate cranking them at.
Also probably the quote I have from GM Socharis in my signature is probably another deal.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>>Actually my main goal is to solve the 3:1 problem with people killing hunting areas, but everyone seems to want to focus on the other side of the equation instead. ::shrugs::<<
Possibly because the obvious fix to the 3:1 problem (bump spawn to 4:1) seems relatively simple, but the solution you're proposing seems far ranging and with potentially undesirable consequences for the way everyone plays the game.
This isn't a dig at you. I don't think anyone on the Dev team is trying to ruin anybody's fun, just that sometimes you guys seem too willing to engage in social engineering when all people want is a little more quality of life.
Possibly because the obvious fix to the 3:1 problem (bump spawn to 4:1) seems relatively simple, but the solution you're proposing seems far ranging and with potentially undesirable consequences for the way everyone plays the game.
This isn't a dig at you. I don't think anyone on the Dev team is trying to ruin anybody's fun, just that sometimes you guys seem too willing to engage in social engineering when all people want is a little more quality of life.
I think what Apu said really gets to the heart of this:
>I should still get a reasonable spawn rate in my room, regardless of how fast or slow other people around me are killing their creatures. Right now "reasonable" is 3-4 creatures in the room at all times. The definition of reasonable could change if defensive skills were rebalanced to train effectively in 1v1 combat, but right now 3+ are required to train effectively
The main issue is that people need 3+ critters to train defenses effectively. Change it so that 1:1 or 2:1 trains defense well, then there isn't really an issue anymore. Also bump up the chance to spawn in a PC's room or 1 room away, so that a PC has a fairly constant stream of critters.
>I should still get a reasonable spawn rate in my room, regardless of how fast or slow other people around me are killing their creatures. Right now "reasonable" is 3-4 creatures in the room at all times. The definition of reasonable could change if defensive skills were rebalanced to train effectively in 1v1 combat, but right now 3+ are required to train effectively
The main issue is that people need 3+ critters to train defenses effectively. Change it so that 1:1 or 2:1 trains defense well, then there isn't really an issue anymore. Also bump up the chance to spawn in a PC's room or 1 room away, so that a PC has a fairly constant stream of critters.
>The main issue is that people need 3+ critters to train defenses effectively AND without risk of death.
^FTFY
I can hunt single critters and learn really really well, but I also risk getting my arse handed to me and dying a horrible death (see other thread about dying sux).
People want to learn with 0% risk of dying, so they hunt things that they need 4 of.
If there were more critters in the realms, I'd say they should shrink the ranges critters teach, and remove or really slow down the learning from soft caps.
It's kind of silly that I can go stand in Dobeks with 0 risk of dying, go grab a soda, read the forums, and keep a soft eye on the game and be locked across the board in all defenses in less than 10 minutes. I don't have to do anything but type DODGE once.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
^FTFY
I can hunt single critters and learn really really well, but I also risk getting my arse handed to me and dying a horrible death (see other thread about dying sux).
People want to learn with 0% risk of dying, so they hunt things that they need 4 of.
If there were more critters in the realms, I'd say they should shrink the ranges critters teach, and remove or really slow down the learning from soft caps.
It's kind of silly that I can go stand in Dobeks with 0 risk of dying, go grab a soda, read the forums, and keep a soft eye on the game and be locked across the board in all defenses in less than 10 minutes. I don't have to do anything but type DODGE once.
Player of Diggan, Ranger & Halfing of Aesry
I'd like the ability to hunt 1v1 or at least mostly 1v1 in some areas. It would allow me to hunt something that has an equal or greater skill set than mine without having to bolt from the room when the inevitable second and third critters show up. With the new combat system, if I'm fighting something that is about equivalent to my abilities and trying to level will often not be able to kill the critter before its backup arrives. I realize that most people want more things to kill either for farming or training not less, but if I have one thing in front of me that's good enough. I don't need to constantly be working my defending skill.
I'm not as skilled as most of you. I'll use young ogres as an example. With 90 ranks in my weapon and 70 in my defenses, I can kill a young ogre. It takes awhile, and it can get the better of me if I'm not concentrating or I get distracted by something. However, I can't attempt to take two. My defending skill is in line with my other defenses. When the second and third critter show up they immediately overwhelm me. I'd just like to be able to go 1v1 against critters that are dangerous and see who comes out alive. In the current system, I'm unware of any place to do this. All of the combat seems to be based on fighting 3 or 4 things at a time and fighting at or near level(maybe I'm fighting things over my skills but its fun!!) won't allow me to dispatch critters fast enough to keep things from becoming impossible.
I'm not as skilled as most of you. I'll use young ogres as an example. With 90 ranks in my weapon and 70 in my defenses, I can kill a young ogre. It takes awhile, and it can get the better of me if I'm not concentrating or I get distracted by something. However, I can't attempt to take two. My defending skill is in line with my other defenses. When the second and third critter show up they immediately overwhelm me. I'd just like to be able to go 1v1 against critters that are dangerous and see who comes out alive. In the current system, I'm unware of any place to do this. All of the combat seems to be based on fighting 3 or 4 things at a time and fighting at or near level(maybe I'm fighting things over my skills but its fun!!) won't allow me to dispatch critters fast enough to keep things from becoming impossible.
I have to disagree with Resha here. You do great work and thank you for that. However why "force" folks up down or out of hunding areas?
If I want to take my 165 paladin to Rats and smash em to bits all day why should I not be allowed to do that?
"dancing" I hate, absolutely detest the idea. Folks milking every last shred of armor/defence exp before "safely" making a transition. I'd rather train TONS of weapons so by the time they are all ready to move to next tier my Defences are capped or near capped. Never EVER liked the idea of "dancing"
Farmers? Whats wrong with them? They kill stuff. Generate spawn let them hunt gather wahtever they are looking to gather as long as the spawn is steady. I liked the old idea where after X amount of time creature would walk away from you. "Dancing" with 4 cratures for endles hours should be looked at and nuked not "tweaking" down spawn rates.
Loot generation? I laugh at the idea of "nerfing" loot gereration. I agree with the idea. Personaly I'd nerf loot generation by 90%. However its a matter of economies of scale you can nerf the loot by anything you want all you've done is reduced the "numbers" you deal with you have changed nothing. Rich will be rich poor will still be poor you just wont be dealing with infinate .000000000000 but instead iwth .00
What I abhore in regards to "loot generation" and "cry and hue against farmers" is the concept that folks who play several hours a day and run 1 account expect to have same level of "status" in game in relation to "loot" "ranks" etc as those who spend HOURS upon HOURS every day and pay for multiple accoutns. Like anything in life the more you invest the harder you work the more you earn. Simple as that. Takes money to make money etc. Lets get off "nerf loot" topic ules we do it to reduce the number of .000000000 we are dealing with so I'm not blinded every time I look at shops and prices in them by the sheer amount of figgues attached to the items.
>>Junky1: Lets just say the avg is 4 accounts per person.
I know a married couple with six accounts that they share, but I think that's an outlier. The average is probably 1-2 accounts per player (though each account may have more than one character on it).
It would be interesting to see some official stats on the number of accounts and/or characters per player.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I know a married couple with six accounts that they share, but I think that's an outlier. The average is probably 1-2 accounts per player (though each account may have more than one character on it).
It would be interesting to see some official stats on the number of accounts and/or characters per player.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
