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That is literally forgebinding. Apply look and script of weapon a to weapon b and destroy weapon a.
And it's still more intensive than a traditional alteration.
<<That is literally forgebinding. Apply look and script of weapon a to weapon b and destroy weapon a.
And it's still more intensive than a traditional alteration.>>
Not talking about moving any scripts though. JUST the appearance. Like, imagine it's a normal alteration, but the description you give can ONLY be something on an existing item, and said item is destroyed in the process. I'm fairly certain that real forgebinding is such a pain because they have to retain scripts or whatnot on the weapon while changing the stats. What I'm talking about only would involve updating the description when someone looks at you, and I suppose the TAP as well.
And it's still more intensive than a traditional alteration.>>
Not talking about moving any scripts though. JUST the appearance. Like, imagine it's a normal alteration, but the description you give can ONLY be something on an existing item, and said item is destroyed in the process. I'm fairly certain that real forgebinding is such a pain because they have to retain scripts or whatnot on the weapon while changing the stats. What I'm talking about only would involve updating the description when someone looks at you, and I suppose the TAP as well.
I too would love this. I'd say as long as you could do it within the same item type. So light edge jabber = light edge jabber. That would be one of the most awesome QOL upgrades for me personally. Especially if it's affordable. Paying ungodly amounts for things like that drive me crazy.
Monster Elec
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Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
I would only be in favor of this if they added some line somewhere that made it clear it's be altered. Otherwise, it's going to give us catalogers a headache when we find different versions of the same item.
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/User:CARAAMON#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
>>I would only be in favor of this if they added some line somewhere that made it clear it's be altered. Otherwise, it's going to give us catalogers a headache when we find different versions of the same item.
It already exists.
>The xxxx looks to be custom-made.
That line should be on any item that is altered from it's original version when appraised.
It already exists.
>The xxxx looks to be custom-made.
That line should be on any item that is altered from it's original version when appraised.
<<I would only be in favor of this if they added some line somewhere that made it clear it's be altered. Otherwise, it's going to give us catalogers a headache when we find different versions of the same item.>>
Totally agree. I think the original LOOK must stay intact (to identify forged weapons at the very least), but maybe an extra line. So like; "You see the initials "X. Y." stamped into the metal. This weapon/armor's appearance has clearly been altered, however."
And yeah, weapon type AND main damage type should need to match, although it'd be nice if the noun could change. For instance, "pole axe" is a halberd-type template, but there are almost no halberd weapons with the "axe" noun. With armor, just match type and protected areas, but maybe with an exception to allow full coverage armor to be used with half-plate type templates (there's very few store-bought half plate/hauberk type items out there).
Totally agree. I think the original LOOK must stay intact (to identify forged weapons at the very least), but maybe an extra line. So like; "You see the initials "X. Y." stamped into the metal. This weapon/armor's appearance has clearly been altered, however."
And yeah, weapon type AND main damage type should need to match, although it'd be nice if the noun could change. For instance, "pole axe" is a halberd-type template, but there are almost no halberd weapons with the "axe" noun. With armor, just match type and protected areas, but maybe with an exception to allow full coverage armor to be used with half-plate type templates (there's very few store-bought half plate/hauberk type items out there).
>>I'm fairly certain that real forgebinding is such a pain because they have to retain scripts or whatnot on the weapon while changing the stats. What I'm talking about only would involve updating the description when someone looks at you, and I suppose the TAP as well.
AFAIK, this is correct.
I actually had one of those fauxbinding (haw haw I am hilarious) things done last year. I had a unique item made with rare materials exploded and had the tap/look imported onto an item that had a fun script that I wanted to get some mileage out of. My understanding is that making scripted item A get the look/tap of item B is a lot different (and a lot easier) than merging item A and B or moving the script from item A to item B. Forgebinding is for the latter two things. The first thing is essentially just getting the same alteration done again and maybe destroying the other one in the process if you lack the materials to make an outright copy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AFAIK, this is correct.
I actually had one of those fauxbinding (haw haw I am hilarious) things done last year. I had a unique item made with rare materials exploded and had the tap/look imported onto an item that had a fun script that I wanted to get some mileage out of. My understanding is that making scripted item A get the look/tap of item B is a lot different (and a lot easier) than merging item A and B or moving the script from item A to item B. Forgebinding is for the latter two things. The first thing is essentially just getting the same alteration done again and maybe destroying the other one in the process if you lack the materials to make an outright copy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>Caraamon: I would only be in favor of this if they added some line somewhere that made it clear it's be altered. Otherwise, it's going to give us catalogers a headache when we find different versions of the same item.
This.
>>Ninevah1: It already exists.
Yes, it is supposed to be there, but I have seen a few items (some unique order/Mentor event prizes and very old alterations) where it's missing. So we just want to make sure that any such limited alteration would reliably add that line 100% of the time.
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This.
>>Ninevah1: It already exists.
Yes, it is supposed to be there, but I have seen a few items (some unique order/Mentor event prizes and very old alterations) where it's missing. So we just want to make sure that any such limited alteration would reliably add that line 100% of the time.
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
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>>Yes, it is supposed to be there, but I have seen a few items (some unique order/Mentor event prizes and very old alterations) where it's missing. So we just want to make sure that any such limited alteration would reliably add that line 100% of the time.
That might have something to do with the fact that order/mentor event prizes are made fresh and not altered, so they wouldn't have that line. Very old alterations would be hard to go through and find all of them to add the line to. I don't think you really need to worry about this too much.
-Sir Steven,esq III Lord of the Realms and Protector of Virginity.
That might have something to do with the fact that order/mentor event prizes are made fresh and not altered, so they wouldn't have that line. Very old alterations would be hard to go through and find all of them to add the line to. I don't think you really need to worry about this too much.
-Sir Steven,esq III Lord of the Realms and Protector of Virginity.
Also keep in mind that a lot of raffle prizes are also tagged as "custom," so it's not even that solid a metric for determining if something is altered at the request of a player or not.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
<<That is literally forgebinding. Apply look and script of weapon a to weapon b and destroy weapon a.
And it's still more intensive than a traditional alteration. >>
What i'm talking about is way simpler. No scripts could be copied, just the TAP, the LOOK, and the READ. Possibly even just the tap if you are trying to put it on an item like a forged weapon or weightless bandolier. It wouldn't require anything more then a copy/paste and the item you used just get's taken by the alterer.
~Niktika
>>Why not just alter the new item to look like the old one and leave the old one completely out of it?
I think the request is to find a way to automate it and/or treat is as a "less intensive" alteration.
You could arguably leave the old one completely out of it, unless the old one includes references to materials that you don't have on hand (your imperial weave shirt with Gemfire ruby buttons, or whatever.)
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think the request is to find a way to automate it and/or treat is as a "less intensive" alteration.
You could arguably leave the old one completely out of it, unless the old one includes references to materials that you don't have on hand (your imperial weave shirt with Gemfire ruby buttons, or whatever.)
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
<<Why not just alter the new item to look like the old one and leave the old one completely out of it?>>
Well, my logic for the whole thing with the old item is:
1. It could get people out and about in the Realms, however briefly, to visit shops that have interesting looking items. Seems like right now, you just check the handy Trader Shop spreadsheet to find an item, check the stats on E-pedia, and then just run to the shop and buy it. That or gweth around for a crafts-person.
2. This could in turn sell a few province passes to F2P, or at the very least it's getting some interaction or RP going when they have to look for someone to make the trip for them.
3. Creates a reason for people to actually buy fest stuff. In today's world, "cool-looking but rubbish stats" armor/weapons probably don't sell all that much at fests, because what's the point when you can pretty much find quality steel weapons on just about any guild's donation rack? Or heck really in the Crossing now, Tembeg/Milgrym sell pretty quality stuff today. With this change, maybe I buy 5 of those "cool-looking but rubbish stats" things, and maybe I'll find some buyers when the fest is over, and somebody gets a brand-new haralun greatsword that they want to add a little flair too.
4. Might get some cool items that have been sitting in a vault forever back out into the world.
Overall, I'm aiming this at those that don't often get a chance at an alteration, or that can't get an alteration at all. And at the same time, it adds a pretty decent opportunity for a microtrans that, in my opinion anyway, is pretty inoffensive, and kinda cool.
Oh and as far as automating it, ala the old-school dyers, I have a feeling that'd just cause problems, hence why after some thought I came up with the whole quick-and-dirty merchant idea.
Well, my logic for the whole thing with the old item is:
1. It could get people out and about in the Realms, however briefly, to visit shops that have interesting looking items. Seems like right now, you just check the handy Trader Shop spreadsheet to find an item, check the stats on E-pedia, and then just run to the shop and buy it. That or gweth around for a crafts-person.
2. This could in turn sell a few province passes to F2P, or at the very least it's getting some interaction or RP going when they have to look for someone to make the trip for them.
3. Creates a reason for people to actually buy fest stuff. In today's world, "cool-looking but rubbish stats" armor/weapons probably don't sell all that much at fests, because what's the point when you can pretty much find quality steel weapons on just about any guild's donation rack? Or heck really in the Crossing now, Tembeg/Milgrym sell pretty quality stuff today. With this change, maybe I buy 5 of those "cool-looking but rubbish stats" things, and maybe I'll find some buyers when the fest is over, and somebody gets a brand-new haralun greatsword that they want to add a little flair too.
4. Might get some cool items that have been sitting in a vault forever back out into the world.
Overall, I'm aiming this at those that don't often get a chance at an alteration, or that can't get an alteration at all. And at the same time, it adds a pretty decent opportunity for a microtrans that, in my opinion anyway, is pretty inoffensive, and kinda cool.
Oh and as far as automating it, ala the old-school dyers, I have a feeling that'd just cause problems, hence why after some thought I came up with the whole quick-and-dirty merchant idea.
>>Why not just alter the new item to look like the old one and leave the old one completely out of it?
I think the request is to find a way to automate it and/or treat is as a "less intensive" alteration.
You could arguably leave the old one completely out of it, unless the old one includes references to materials that you don't have on hand (your imperial weave shirt with Gemfire ruby buttons, or whatever.)>>
Exactly. Most alterations you need to be lucky enough to get on a list. That list can be 100 people long. Then you have to hope to be chosen within the time frame that the merchant is working. You have you supply materials, sometimes extremely rare ones. Then you need to wait for people to haggle with the merchant over designs, and if you get chosen you have to make sure your design is within that certain merchants rules.
What i'm talking about would allow for a really fast way to recycle old alterations back into use quickly and conveniently for everyone involved. Like people have old ironbark armor laying around that are never used because the armor is outdated. But that beautiful alteration and all the materials are just sitting around collecting dust.
As another approach to fulfilling the desire of many to have an item be both aesthetically pleasing and functional, let me suggest "reforging." Someone with enough skill in forging could take an item into a forge, and redetermine all the stats that would be determined in the process of forging that item, but without changing the appearance or any scripts attached. It should probably take more skill than forging an original (but plain looking) item, and the material composition shouldn't be allowed to change much, if any. Any materials that would be required to forge the item might still be needed, though perhaps in a lessened amount, for the materials already present in the item. You would use the original fancy looking item as both instructions and an ingredient in the crafting process, consuming it but producing an item with the same looks and scripts, but with potentially different damage/protection/durability/etc.
>>I think the request is to find a way to automate it and/or treat is as a "less intensive" alteration.
You could arguably leave the old one completely out of it, unless the old one includes references to materials that you don't have on hand (your imperial weave shirt with Gemfire ruby buttons, or whatever.)
Ok, if you have materials you don't have on hand then sure, you could use the old item to provide those materials. As to a "less intensive" alteration, I don't think that's really possible. If you are just trying to change the way something looks and its tap that's an alteration. As far as I know, and I'm not a GM so I could be wrong, that requires similar amounts of work of retyping an alteration up or copy and pasting from an old item.
The only way this would be "less intensive" would be to automate a system, which could raise a whole new set of issues. Things like the changes in the past that made some alterations not fit the rules, so they would need a GM to sign off on everything. Issues of players who THINK something should be able to be transferred over but in reality they don't really match up then you get assists and reports from players. There are many more opportunities to get altered items than there has been in the past. Yes, you might have to put in some time, effort, or money, but that has always been the case when they were much more rare as well.
You could arguably leave the old one completely out of it, unless the old one includes references to materials that you don't have on hand (your imperial weave shirt with Gemfire ruby buttons, or whatever.)
Ok, if you have materials you don't have on hand then sure, you could use the old item to provide those materials. As to a "less intensive" alteration, I don't think that's really possible. If you are just trying to change the way something looks and its tap that's an alteration. As far as I know, and I'm not a GM so I could be wrong, that requires similar amounts of work of retyping an alteration up or copy and pasting from an old item.
The only way this would be "less intensive" would be to automate a system, which could raise a whole new set of issues. Things like the changes in the past that made some alterations not fit the rules, so they would need a GM to sign off on everything. Issues of players who THINK something should be able to be transferred over but in reality they don't really match up then you get assists and reports from players. There are many more opportunities to get altered items than there has been in the past. Yes, you might have to put in some time, effort, or money, but that has always been the case when they were much more rare as well.
>>The only way this would be "less intensive" would be to automate a system, which could raise a whole new set of issues.
A system where you literally just ask the GM to paste the TAP of one weapon onto another would be much less intensive than the current alteration system. Reasons:
1) It's TAP only, no need to fuss with the LOOK/READ.
2) The other item exists and therefore there is a good chance it is already pre-approved.
Yes, there could still be issues with people wanting their steel sword to look like tyrium, or they might bring out an item that would no longer be acceptable. But believe me, a tap-paste alteration would be vastly less difficult and time-intensive than a regular one. Current sessions contain the above problems PLUS have to deal with providing materials and the LOOK.
Overall, it's not a bad idea. I would personally prefer to see it routed into Artistry, though.
- Navesi
A system where you literally just ask the GM to paste the TAP of one weapon onto another would be much less intensive than the current alteration system. Reasons:
1) It's TAP only, no need to fuss with the LOOK/READ.
2) The other item exists and therefore there is a good chance it is already pre-approved.
Yes, there could still be issues with people wanting their steel sword to look like tyrium, or they might bring out an item that would no longer be acceptable. But believe me, a tap-paste alteration would be vastly less difficult and time-intensive than a regular one. Current sessions contain the above problems PLUS have to deal with providing materials and the LOOK.
Overall, it's not a bad idea. I would personally prefer to see it routed into Artistry, though.
- Navesi
>>As to a "less intensive" alteration, I don't think that's really possible. If you are just trying to change the way something looks and its tap that's an alteration. As far as I know, and I'm not a GM so I could be wrong, that requires similar amounts of work of retyping an alteration up or copy and pasting from an old item.
I think you're not factoring in the time it could take to actually craft the messaging, since not everyone comes in with an idea that is 100% done.
Plus, the general difficulty of getting an alteration done. I can understand why someone, especially in Prime, would want to not get the same alteration twice given the difficulty of getting the first one.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think you're not factoring in the time it could take to actually craft the messaging, since not everyone comes in with an idea that is 100% done.
Plus, the general difficulty of getting an alteration done. I can understand why someone, especially in Prime, would want to not get the same alteration twice given the difficulty of getting the first one.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
