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Hopefully Solomon won't shut this one down since it's not cluttering up any other folders and it's a complaint.
PAFO titles are ridiculous. As has been pointed out in other threads titles are a sort of Achievement system. Not knowing what you are supposed to be achieving doesn't make sense. JMF90 pointed out that having a title that know one knows how to get is ridiculous in it's own right.
I'm still pretty tired, posting before my coffee so these aren't the best arguments hopefully more people will add to them. I canceled Rishlu last night though because I don't have anything Tangible to work towards. If I knew how many ranks and/or stat points I needed to get Holy Being or Holy Titan I'd be more willing to stay but Titles are the only thing I have left and I don't want to randomly work skills hoping i'll stumble across something.
Totally agree. I know on other thief boards we used to have, we pretty much tore our hair out trying to figure out titles that imho don't belong being on the list of "super sekrit stuff" that nobody knows what they are".
since many of these "skills" are either going away or being combined anyway with the new systems coming in ....Mister Solomon, tear down that PAFO wall.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
since many of these "skills" are either going away or being combined anyway with the new systems coming in ....Mister Solomon, tear down that PAFO wall.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
/signed
Player of Drevid and Jhaval
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
Player of Drevid and Jhaval
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
Down with PAFO! For titles at least...
I gotta agree with everyone. PAFO for titles is not the way to go. It's an achievement system in which you see what your goal is and you work to achieve it. I'm not a fan of working arbitrary skills just to see if I can get a title, I'd rather know exactly what skills I need to train.
This whole PAFO for titles business just makes me lose total interest in the title system.
Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer
I gotta agree with everyone. PAFO for titles is not the way to go. It's an achievement system in which you see what your goal is and you work to achieve it. I'm not a fan of working arbitrary skills just to see if I can get a title, I'd rather know exactly what skills I need to train.
This whole PAFO for titles business just makes me lose total interest in the title system.
Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer
>Personally I think PAFO has it's place, just not with titles. I'm not asking for spoilers for every quest and every ability, just for Titles.
^^^This. PAFO definitely has its place, and I like it for the majority of systems. However, Titles require hundreds and sometimes thousands of ranks to achieve. If one wishes to invest the (considerable) time to work toward that goal, it should be a stated goal.
How blessed are some people, whose lives have no fears, no dreads, to whom sleep is a blessing that comes nightly, and brings nothing but sweet dreams. -Bram Stoker's Dracula
^^^This. PAFO definitely has its place, and I like it for the majority of systems. However, Titles require hundreds and sometimes thousands of ranks to achieve. If one wishes to invest the (considerable) time to work toward that goal, it should be a stated goal.
How blessed are some people, whose lives have no fears, no dreads, to whom sleep is a blessing that comes nightly, and brings nothing but sweet dreams. -Bram Stoker's Dracula
Not that I'm agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but I think part of the current philosophy behind titles and their role is to supply a sense of fear, mystery and/or awe to those who see another with title "X" that is currently unknown.
The best I can compare it to is when you start a new game and don't know how powerful anything is. Then you see "Deathstalker of Oblivion Draco Lord" and then you say, "Oh Snap! What is that?"
The same happens whenever I see someone with a really cool sounding title, and then I go to the DR website and see ???? listed for all of the requirements. I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title. A myriad of potential and possibility then starts running through my head. Does it mean that person is powerful? Does it mean I have no chance of seeing them hide? Does it mean that person can one-shot me? How long has that character existed in the realms?
Honestly, it's just another way of looking at the title system, rather than just looking at it as another form of grinding achievements.
Again, not saying I prefer one way over the other--I'm just trying to highlight a reason why, perhaps, it has been left the way that it is for so long.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
The best I can compare it to is when you start a new game and don't know how powerful anything is. Then you see "Deathstalker of Oblivion Draco Lord" and then you say, "Oh Snap! What is that?"
The same happens whenever I see someone with a really cool sounding title, and then I go to the DR website and see ???? listed for all of the requirements. I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title. A myriad of potential and possibility then starts running through my head. Does it mean that person is powerful? Does it mean I have no chance of seeing them hide? Does it mean that person can one-shot me? How long has that character existed in the realms?
Honestly, it's just another way of looking at the title system, rather than just looking at it as another form of grinding achievements.
Again, not saying I prefer one way over the other--I'm just trying to highlight a reason why, perhaps, it has been left the way that it is for so long.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>I'm just trying to highlight a reason why, perhaps, it has been left the way that it is for so long.
I have nothing but respect for the intent. Let's look at the title Archmage. It requires 1,000 ranks in each of 3 magic skills. Given the time it takes to hit that mark, I wouldn't want to be flailing blindly on it.
Some people like the surprise factor on titles and some don't. I'm in the latter camp. Surely a compromise could be reached.
How blessed are some people, whose lives have no fears, no dreads, to whom sleep is a blessing that comes nightly, and brings nothing but sweet dreams. -Bram Stoker's Dracula
I have nothing but respect for the intent. Let's look at the title Archmage. It requires 1,000 ranks in each of 3 magic skills. Given the time it takes to hit that mark, I wouldn't want to be flailing blindly on it.
Some people like the surprise factor on titles and some don't. I'm in the latter camp. Surely a compromise could be reached.
How blessed are some people, whose lives have no fears, no dreads, to whom sleep is a blessing that comes nightly, and brings nothing but sweet dreams. -Bram Stoker's Dracula
PAFO to new players is generally bad. Guild secrets are one thing, titles and their requirements are another. I know a couple of people that were going to try DR until I told them if they wanted to know what the guild's spells/abilities did they'd have to go read third party websites because the game is mostly PAFO. Their general response was "I'm not going to play a game that can't tell me what I need for basic things."
>>PAFO to new players is generally bad. Guild secrets are one thing, titles and their requirements are another. I know a couple of people that were going to try DR until I told them if they wanted to know what the guild's spells/abilities did they'd have to go read third party websites because the game is mostly PAFO. Their general response was "I'm not going to play a game that can't tell me what I need for basic things."
To be fair a lot of titles aren't PAFO, just the high level and most complicated ones, which is the most inane thing to me. As someone pointed out earlier high level titles require hundreds of hours to achieve, flailing about wildly for them is not fun, which I thought was supposed to be part of the appeal of the title system.
To be fair a lot of titles aren't PAFO, just the high level and most complicated ones, which is the most inane thing to me. As someone pointed out earlier high level titles require hundreds of hours to achieve, flailing about wildly for them is not fun, which I thought was supposed to be part of the appeal of the title system.
/signed
>I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title.
Sometimes so do they. I've been sitting with people when they'd suddenly blurt out, "Oh I got a new title! Wonder how I earned it"
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
>I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title.
Sometimes so do they. I've been sitting with people when they'd suddenly blurt out, "Oh I got a new title! Wonder how I earned it"
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
Going after titles definitely taps into the reward center of my noggin. I hope that someone puts all of the reqs on the web site after the exp combination.
>"Oh I got a new title! Wonder how I earned it"
Yeah, this is always anticlimactic.
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
>"Oh I got a new title! Wonder how I earned it"
Yeah, this is always anticlimactic.
~ Purehand
>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.
... Jackpot.
/signed
Treat it like it is, an Achievement system. I could only think how much Blizzard would be SLAMMED if they attempted to make their WoW Achievements PAFO. Especially the stupid one like doing /love to 25 critters in the game...
If you want to do PAFO, then do it and put a timer on it. If people participate during that timer for PAFO to figure them out, great. If not, super. and there are always the spoiler boxes and all the other things.
Last thing I want to see is more people in the same boat as the Paladin's Guild. When was the last time they got titles? Why is nearly 1 in 5 posts in their forums going, "So, about our titles released a zillion years ago, what are all the different reqs for them?" And it should be pretty hard to ignore that after every time Dart posts he gets asked that very specific question...
Treat it like it is, an Achievement system. I could only think how much Blizzard would be SLAMMED if they attempted to make their WoW Achievements PAFO. Especially the stupid one like doing /love to 25 critters in the game...
If you want to do PAFO, then do it and put a timer on it. If people participate during that timer for PAFO to figure them out, great. If not, super. and there are always the spoiler boxes and all the other things.
Last thing I want to see is more people in the same boat as the Paladin's Guild. When was the last time they got titles? Why is nearly 1 in 5 posts in their forums going, "So, about our titles released a zillion years ago, what are all the different reqs for them?" And it should be pretty hard to ignore that after every time Dart posts he gets asked that very specific question...
Agree 100% with thread.
Also, to Leilond >>I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title.
I bet if you don't already know, they don't know either.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
Also, to Leilond >>I ponder at what that person had to do in order to get that really awesome title.
I bet if you don't already know, they don't know either.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
I'm happy that the guild advocates are actively requesting input for new guild titles, but I also hope they're listening to threads like this.
I have some racial titles I'd like to know how I earned. There are also some other ones that I'd like to earn. Being an empath I focus on brawling and one blade for my weapons. If the other titles I want are completely out of my scope of training I'd at least appreciate knowing that fact.
In line with the original post I see it as this..
You can only say "Yay numbers!" for so long once you hit the circle cap before its "yawn.. numbers.." Most goals are likely met by that time. If not they may not be important enough to the player of that character to go back and reach previous goals. Having a high goal to reach is what keeps a lot of people going. If you don't know how that goal can be reached there is nowhere else to go except away.
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
I have some racial titles I'd like to know how I earned. There are also some other ones that I'd like to earn. Being an empath I focus on brawling and one blade for my weapons. If the other titles I want are completely out of my scope of training I'd at least appreciate knowing that fact.
In line with the original post I see it as this..
You can only say "Yay numbers!" for so long once you hit the circle cap before its "yawn.. numbers.." Most goals are likely met by that time. If not they may not be important enough to the player of that character to go back and reach previous goals. Having a high goal to reach is what keeps a lot of people going. If you don't know how that goal can be reached there is nowhere else to go except away.
Grixlek says, "Courage is dangerous, it leads to attempts at heroics..."
Vegas asks, "What like dating?"
Grixlek says, "Nothing that dangerous I believe, but still crazy stuff."
The thing is that some GMs are telling what title requirements are and others are not. I thought we were getting away from this model. Parity and/or equality among guilds/systems when possible. Well I'm sorry, but either every GM should expose title requirements or none should. Period, end of statment.
Equine cemetery, really?
I'll throw in my support here as well. Especially at the top end, titles are one of the few things to work towards. Going for the Weapon Master and Harbinger titles were big things for me, as a player. The more difficult moon mage titles had ??? reqs, although at some point Armifer did mention what the involved skills are.
With the new batch of moon mage titles, team MM has been fairly open, but as long as people are trying to guess the titles on their own, I get the sense that they don't want to ruin this type of speculation. I'm not a fan of this personally, but perhaps after x months of release the actual reqs could be posted?
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
I'll throw in my support here as well. Especially at the top end, titles are one of the few things to work towards. Going for the Weapon Master and Harbinger titles were big things for me, as a player. The more difficult moon mage titles had ??? reqs, although at some point Armifer did mention what the involved skills are.
With the new batch of moon mage titles, team MM has been fairly open, but as long as people are trying to guess the titles on their own, I get the sense that they don't want to ruin this type of speculation. I'm not a fan of this personally, but perhaps after x months of release the actual reqs could be posted?
>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.
heh criticism is frowned upon.
Player of Drevid and Jhaval
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
Player of Drevid and Jhaval
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
