I've made some changes to basically every ambush and each of the debilitation khri. These all could use a little more testing now to compare how well they behave compared to prior tests. I'm trying something new with them, so whatever results you encounter will be helpful to know.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

Ambush stun didn't seem to stick for more than a second, is that normal?

<< the potency of your ambush stun is only as good as your strength SvS contest.
Well, that explains it but i would have still expected it to last a bit longer on an even scale. Appraised against my 70 stamina, i get - "You are certain that it is not quite as conditioned as you are". So, its probably about 60 stamina vs my 50 in strength.

<< For thief, agility should be the primary for checks on ambushes, not strength.

It's true that agility has always been favored by thieves but i don't think in this current model it should be just a stat contest. I mean, we're talking stats, capped at 100. It's not completely uncommon to find people out there that have 100 in all those stats and i'm sure they would like to see more than a one second stun if they pull it off.

Do an ambush choke first, see if that increases the duration of your stun. I just went from about 8 seconds to about 20 by leading with choke. I also had plunder on for the discipline boost.

> Is the ambush stat check modified by a backstab/perception check?

Sort of. You can miss an ambush before you even REACH the SvS check, i think thief ambushes have the most skill checks of all debils, or close.

>>Could we get some hints as to what actually changed?

Not yet. The changes are experimental right now, and knowing what they are would skew the results. For now, any particular impressions on how effective the ambushes and debilitation khri vs how effective they were prior to these changes will be helpful.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

> Not yet. The changes are experimental right now, and knowing what they are would skew the results. For now, any particular impressions on how effective the ambushes and debilitation khri vs how effective they were prior to these changes will be helpful.

Ambush Slash - I like it, the contests are within measure for on level fighting. High success just making the opponent kneel needs some work i think, maybe add a short immobilize or "stand prevention" mechanic to make a high success worth getting. Right now the opponent kneeling is just entertaining, they stand up before you are even out of RT. I would also like to see slash open to other weapon types at the cost of the damage, similar to how stun works.

Ambush Clout - Love it, it is usable somewhat on level if i wear some crafted claws, the new effect of clout is really inventive and a great asset to thief tools.

Ambush Stun - This ambush still falls short for accuracy, but the mechanics if you can actually HIT something don't seem too bad. A tiny bit of increased accuracy, and i think this one is good to go.

Ambush Screen - The effect of the ambush was as intended, and the stealth/rehide mechanics work well. The only issue i see is RT, all of the times i used ambush screen it was consistently 6-7 RT, this is far too much. You can just THROW dirt at someone and get 2 or 3 RT.

Ambush Choke - This one seemed a bit hard to hit with, with effects that aren't really that helpful. It would not currently be anywhere on my list of goto abilities. It has the same RT problem as ambush screen, but a far less beneficial effect. This ambush is not even worth 1/4 of the RT it would give you for using it.

Khri Eliminate - bah humbug.

Khri Prowess/Guile - They are potentially great tools for a thief arsonel, if set up right. But they need to be made stealth/thief friendly, The way they work in plain sight is fine, but they need some modification to the stealth calcs. Pulsing debuffs that produce messages to the person blow yer cover in pvp and tell people when you are engaging, i would not use them just for that reason. Prowess and Guile should both be usable while in stealth, but proc the moment before you come out to attack someone or use another ambush, applying on your initial attack. I don't think anyone cares about a tactics debuff either, that needs to be swapped for something useful like agility.

Khri Sagacity - Not high on my list of great tools. The short duration and limited damage it absorbs before folding like a card house make it a huge chore to use. When it folds like a card house, it continues to be a sustained khri and drain yer concentration, making it more taxing than helpful. I would likely forgo using Sagacity to get something more helpful at this point.


Ambushes need to have a cap on max RT they can receive, ive noticed most of the ambushes can fluctuate wildly and go as high as 5-6 RT for absolutely no reason at all. This makes me more hesitant to use them.

>You may not be familiar with Finesse, since it's a new SvS attack type. It is based on Agility, Reflex, and Intelligence, and currently isn't modified by anything, though I may add some modifiers in at some point still.

Ahah, that's cool. I was just thinking that the non-magical SvS contests were pretty slim pickings, and not really fitting the type of contests Thieves would use.

Elusive
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