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Again, this must be an issue of mentals being significantly lower. My Necromancers stats are as follows:
Strength : 33 Reflex : 60
Agility : 55 Charisma : 20
Discipline : 46 Wisdom : 49
Intelligence : 55 Stamina : 31
And he experienced virtually zero change in his ability to hit things with TM spells. Snap casts are less accurate than before, but using USOL, a fairly inaccurate seeming spell, he can still hit things reliably.
>>If you're missing by a lot, you won't learn TM, but if you're anywhere close to the ranks of what you're hunting you will learn TM through misses just fine
I'm hoping that TM damage is going to be looked at on low ends as well as right now it seems very weak and inaccurate at early levels? Multi Shot spells seem pretty amazing compared to single shot as well.
My guess as to why multi shots look amazing is two fold
Multi shots do LOTS of small damage, normal TM does a single shot of solid damage.
Imaginary numbers, lets say a 5 hit multi shot could do 10 damage with each strike, where a single spell can do 30 damage. Now imagine you loose about 25% of your damage due to accuracy (barely hitting) your multi shot is at 7.5*5 and your single shot is at 22.25 damage. Target has basically next to nill armor at the low level range, so they lop .5 damage off the attacks. This leaves you with 7 * 5(35) damage and 21.75.
Now start increasing armor...things start swinging back wildly in the favor of the heavier spell. If we loped 2 damage off from armor our numbers look like 5.5*5=27.5 vs 20.25. Make that 5 damage chopped of and stop loosing damage from missing most of your spell, and you are at 5*5(25) vs 30-5(25).
Effectively as the targets resistance starts increasing, and more and more of your blow hit, there seems to come a point that a raw single hit will become more preferable. The same can likely be said about weapons and armor (light weapons seem to have better damage per RT second than heavier weapons in 3.0, but heavier weapons deal with armor better). This leads to a world where what you use depends on what you are facing, instead of the old "bigger is better" mentality.
At least thats my hope:)
Multi shots do LOTS of small damage, normal TM does a single shot of solid damage.
Imaginary numbers, lets say a 5 hit multi shot could do 10 damage with each strike, where a single spell can do 30 damage. Now imagine you loose about 25% of your damage due to accuracy (barely hitting) your multi shot is at 7.5*5 and your single shot is at 22.25 damage. Target has basically next to nill armor at the low level range, so they lop .5 damage off the attacks. This leaves you with 7 * 5(35) damage and 21.75.
Now start increasing armor...things start swinging back wildly in the favor of the heavier spell. If we loped 2 damage off from armor our numbers look like 5.5*5=27.5 vs 20.25. Make that 5 damage chopped of and stop loosing damage from missing most of your spell, and you are at 5*5(25) vs 30-5(25).
Effectively as the targets resistance starts increasing, and more and more of your blow hit, there seems to come a point that a raw single hit will become more preferable. The same can likely be said about weapons and armor (light weapons seem to have better damage per RT second than heavier weapons in 3.0, but heavier weapons deal with armor better). This leads to a world where what you use depends on what you are facing, instead of the old "bigger is better" mentality.
At least thats my hope:)
>In 2.0, yes. In 3.0 its mentals.
Yeah, thats what I've heard but I haven't seen any real solid information on it?
I was pretty much just saying thats what it should remain as. I'm feeling like i've received a kick in the nuts at this point, seeing how one of the main reasons I chose elf was because of an agility bonus for TM, and on top of that charisma is not going to be useful at all anymore. At least not for my guild. I already have the racial nerf bat for discipline. Plus in my opinion intelligence and wisdom make no sense in TM accuracy anyway, power and integrity of a spell yes, even how fast they could be prepared I could see.
Yeah, thats what I've heard but I haven't seen any real solid information on it?
I was pretty much just saying thats what it should remain as. I'm feeling like i've received a kick in the nuts at this point, seeing how one of the main reasons I chose elf was because of an agility bonus for TM, and on top of that charisma is not going to be useful at all anymore. At least not for my guild. I already have the racial nerf bat for discipline. Plus in my opinion intelligence and wisdom make no sense in TM accuracy anyway, power and integrity of a spell yes, even how fast they could be prepared I could see.
Discipline is the stat that factors into TM accuracy.
Remember, to-hit and damage has been separated. This means that the actual spells being cast matter incredibly, both for accuracy and damage dealt. Comparing a weapon vs. TM is not really a good comparison. The specific weapon could have stats that allow it to hit more, whereas the spell may not be as accurate as the weapon (pound for pound/all else equal).
I think it would be more helpful to post the exact stats on the weapon you are using versus the exact spell you're using (and how much mana you're putting in it). Top that off with your own stats and a logs to show what is happening, otherwise the GMs will just be back and forth tweaking/fixing things that may not even need to be fixed.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Remember, to-hit and damage has been separated. This means that the actual spells being cast matter incredibly, both for accuracy and damage dealt. Comparing a weapon vs. TM is not really a good comparison. The specific weapon could have stats that allow it to hit more, whereas the spell may not be as accurate as the weapon (pound for pound/all else equal).
I think it would be more helpful to post the exact stats on the weapon you are using versus the exact spell you're using (and how much mana you're putting in it). Top that off with your own stats and a logs to show what is happening, otherwise the GMs will just be back and forth tweaking/fixing things that may not even need to be fixed.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>one of the main reasons I chose elf was because of an agility bonus...
Sometimes I feel like this is the kind of thought process of a Gold Digger in real life. Going after the person just for their financial assets, without truly looking at the heart of the person to see if they truly like them :(
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Sometimes I feel like this is the kind of thought process of a Gold Digger in real life. Going after the person just for their financial assets, without truly looking at the heart of the person to see if they truly like them :(
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Yes but DR is not a game that lends itself to respecing or rerolling. Such changes in other games are generally pretty easy because its easier to role with the punches. Many times in the history of DR the paradigm change means that what you were working for is now something entirely different, and you would have a few years of backtraining to 'right' yourself, by which point the paradigm changes again.
The mastery skills are a great path to curbing this, as is in general reducing the amount of skills, so I thin this latest paradigm shift has been the best in terms of overall game health.
That said I cant fault someone who feels slighted when they trained agility for years for a reason that is no longer applicable.
However to those individuals I guess I would say you can always respec your tdps once in 3.0, however that wont get around racial issues. As a race elves obviously wont be as good at TM tdp for tdp as a Dwarf.
The mastery skills are a great path to curbing this, as is in general reducing the amount of skills, so I thin this latest paradigm shift has been the best in terms of overall game health.
That said I cant fault someone who feels slighted when they trained agility for years for a reason that is no longer applicable.
However to those individuals I guess I would say you can always respec your tdps once in 3.0, however that wont get around racial issues. As a race elves obviously wont be as good at TM tdp for tdp as a Dwarf.
>They do a lot of damage because you are reducing vitality with each shot, adding a cumulative damage effect(from vit reduction) to the remaining shots.
I think it's more related to the fact that having reduced vitality seems to make it easier to hit something with TM? In terms of actual HP/vitality damage, the numbers are about the same for each hit. The messaging is just different.
I think it's more related to the fact that having reduced vitality seems to make it easier to hit something with TM? In terms of actual HP/vitality damage, the numbers are about the same for each hit. The messaging is just different.
>this must be an issue of mentals being significantly lower. My Necromancers stats are as follows:
As I stated, all of my stats are the same except Wisdom and Charisma are one lower. 34 for everything else, 33 for Wisdom/Charisma. Mentals being significantly lower is not the issue. Judging by your stats, you are significantly higher circle than the people having this problem. Hence, why we claim it's an accuracy problem at low circles.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
As I stated, all of my stats are the same except Wisdom and Charisma are one lower. 34 for everything else, 33 for Wisdom/Charisma. Mentals being significantly lower is not the issue. Judging by your stats, you are significantly higher circle than the people having this problem. Hence, why we claim it's an accuracy problem at low circles.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
>You were using Forest Geni as a comparison earlier, complaining about an accuracy drop.
Yeah? Most people consider 300 ranks fairly low these days. How many ranks of TM does your necro have, and what are you hunting?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Yeah? Most people consider 300 ranks fairly low these days. How many ranks of TM does your necro have, and what are you hunting?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
>@Jhaliascleric , how are your target spells comparing to your melee , ranged weapons?
My sense was that bows are hitting less powerfully, melee is the same but requires a few more hits to take down a critter, and TM is in line with melee in terms of difficulty to hit with, but doing pretty good damage. My Necromancer has about 330 ranks of TM and about 320 ranks of small edged. He has a bunch of tdps, i'll have to experiment with loading on mentals.
In 100/100/100 magic stance;
Full targets of a 10 mana STRA with a 3 mana harness kill in 4-6 shots.
Swinging my sword, I kill in 7-10 attacks (using attack, so, I dunno). The RT on the weapon kill is probably lower.
So, I dunno, this seems pretty reasonable to me. TM training is... WAY easier now.
My sense was that bows are hitting less powerfully, melee is the same but requires a few more hits to take down a critter, and TM is in line with melee in terms of difficulty to hit with, but doing pretty good damage. My Necromancer has about 330 ranks of TM and about 320 ranks of small edged. He has a bunch of tdps, i'll have to experiment with loading on mentals.
In 100/100/100 magic stance;
Full targets of a 10 mana STRA with a 3 mana harness kill in 4-6 shots.
Swinging my sword, I kill in 7-10 attacks (using attack, so, I dunno). The RT on the weapon kill is probably lower.
So, I dunno, this seems pretty reasonable to me. TM training is... WAY easier now.
>Are you guys waiting for full target?
Yes. I would target <spell> 10, charge armband 10, focus armband, wait for full target and cast. Tried it with CL, LB, and GZ.
>Full targets of a 10 mana STRA with a 3 mana harness kill in 4-6 shots.
Mind if I ask what you're hunting?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Yes. I would target <spell> 10, charge armband 10, focus armband, wait for full target and cast. Tried it with CL, LB, and GZ.
>Full targets of a 10 mana STRA with a 3 mana harness kill in 4-6 shots.
Mind if I ask what you're hunting?
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
>Yes. I would target <spell> 10, charge armband 10, focus armband, wait for full target and cast. Tried it with CL, LB, and GZ.
Can you post your stats/skills? I'm curious how it compares between prime and test. My warmie seems to train TM virtually exactly the same between prime and test.
>Mind if I ask what you're hunting?
Gryphons.
Can you post your stats/skills? I'm curious how it compares between prime and test. My warmie seems to train TM virtually exactly the same between prime and test.
>Mind if I ask what you're hunting?
Gryphons.
>Can you post your stats/skills?
I've posted them several times now. TM 288, SE 270, all stats except Charisma/Wisdom 34, Charsima/Wisdom 33.
>I'm curious how it compares between prime and test.
Currently in Prime I do the same routine, prep/target/charge/focus, wait for full target and cast. I use CL in Prime.
>Gryphons
What are your defenses? I may use the crystal and jump down there to see if I can handle them.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I've posted them several times now. TM 288, SE 270, all stats except Charisma/Wisdom 34, Charsima/Wisdom 33.
>I'm curious how it compares between prime and test.
Currently in Prime I do the same routine, prep/target/charge/focus, wait for full target and cast. I use CL in Prime.
>Gryphons
What are your defenses? I may use the crystal and jump down there to see if I can handle them.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Master Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
>I've posted them several times now. TM 288, SE 270, all stats except Charisma/Wisdom 34, Charsima/Wisdom 33.
Huh. So, I'm testing with my warmie now and something does seem awry;
243 TM, Charisma : 33 Discipline : 33 Wisdom : 30 Intelligence : 31. was previously training TM very rapidly with FR in Elder Brocket Deer, now I'm having a really hard time making TM move at all. Full targeted ALA, multiple pulses of FR, nothing. I tried dropping Substratum, in case there was still the bug where xp was being awarded by buffed skill not raw skill, but I can't seem to move TM at all. That's... strange. I don't know what to say; my necromancer doesn't seem to have an issue moving TM with USOL on a like level critter, why can't my Warmie move TM with FR (or CL?) on a like level critter? I might have to test with moving up a bit on the critter ladder. But it could be that defensively, Elder Brocket Deer appraise as 'wipe the floor with', so, I suppose it makes sense that I'm not learning offensive skills on them anymore?
Oddly I also can't seem to move my main weapon, small edged, at 222 on elder brocket deer. Is the critter borked?
And for what it's worth, I still think learning of Warding, Aug, and Debil is messed up.
Huh. So, I'm testing with my warmie now and something does seem awry;
243 TM, Charisma : 33 Discipline : 33 Wisdom : 30 Intelligence : 31. was previously training TM very rapidly with FR in Elder Brocket Deer, now I'm having a really hard time making TM move at all. Full targeted ALA, multiple pulses of FR, nothing. I tried dropping Substratum, in case there was still the bug where xp was being awarded by buffed skill not raw skill, but I can't seem to move TM at all. That's... strange. I don't know what to say; my necromancer doesn't seem to have an issue moving TM with USOL on a like level critter, why can't my Warmie move TM with FR (or CL?) on a like level critter? I might have to test with moving up a bit on the critter ladder. But it could be that defensively, Elder Brocket Deer appraise as 'wipe the floor with', so, I suppose it makes sense that I'm not learning offensive skills on them anymore?
Oddly I also can't seem to move my main weapon, small edged, at 222 on elder brocket deer. Is the critter borked?
And for what it's worth, I still think learning of Warding, Aug, and Debil is messed up.
>Oddly I also can't seem to move my main weapon, small edged, at 222 on elder brocket deer. Is the critter borked?
Yes, deer are (or were) broken. Kodius said they were set up with zero defenses or something like that. Not sure if they've been fixed.
I'd try a different critter and see if you're still having issues.
Yes, deer are (or were) broken. Kodius said they were set up with zero defenses or something like that. Not sure if they've been fixed.
I'd try a different critter and see if you're still having issues.
Ah; so, overhunting a bit in baby gryphons, using FR, TM flies
Like, flies. I'm missing a bunch and it's still moving really fast. If I supplement
Noticed this in FR messaging;
>A blazing flame-like droplet lands a good hit to a fledgling forest gryphon's internal tail!
Seems awkward.
Also, given that we're using cambrinths to keep cyclics going, is there a way we can have a method for checking the remaining mana in a cambrinth? Focus just says the link is intact and how it's being discharged.
Like, flies. I'm missing a bunch and it's still moving really fast. If I supplement
Noticed this in FR messaging;
>A blazing flame-like droplet lands a good hit to a fledgling forest gryphon's internal tail!
Seems awkward.
Also, given that we're using cambrinths to keep cyclics going, is there a way we can have a method for checking the remaining mana in a cambrinth? Focus just says the link is intact and how it's being discharged.
>>>A blazing flame-like droplet lands a good hit to a fledgling forest gryphon's internal tail!
It also hits their 'body' and 'skin'. Skin's pretty weird unless it deflects the hit.
I think its just gryphons(maybe anything with legs and a tail, though i guess they should take wing damage too.
Vipers - everything hit their 'body'. And most monsters an PCs hit normal body parts, left hand, abdomen, etc.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
It also hits their 'body' and 'skin'. Skin's pretty weird unless it deflects the hit.
I think its just gryphons(maybe anything with legs and a tail, though i guess they should take wing damage too.
Vipers - everything hit their 'body'. And most monsters an PCs hit normal body parts, left hand, abdomen, etc.
_________________________________
An agonizing pain fills you as you feel your tongue turn to powder in your mouth! Through a haze of uncertainty and loss, you realize that something you just said was very wrong.
>Vipers - everything hit their 'body'. And most monsters an PCs hit normal body parts, left hand, abdomen, etc.
I think that's because they're essentially snakes and don't have limbs and noticeably different body regions. Beisswurms might be similar; just upper body and lower body or something like that.
