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I did a bit of hunting and was pretty happy with most of the experience I was seeing with the different categories of magic. The new skills seem to have a pretty decent rate of experience gain from what I saw. The only thing I seen that I thought was a big much was TM. I seemed to gain TM at a really high rate even without USOL, which teaches TM really well. Honestly I think TM gain could be toned down a bit more since it is a damaging magic and most likely will be used a lot more than the other categories. I don't really want just anybody to be able to run in combat and easily lock it in 5-10 minutes. Thats just me though, I'd like to hear from other people about how their TM gain is going.
My warmie and my necromancer both have an extremely easy time moving TM with cyclic AoEs. I feel it should be toned down a bit, but would still like to see Debil, Warding, and Augmentation xp boosted, or at least kagiggered so they could be trained to provide steady low amounts of xp instead of 3-5 tics with 100+ mana spells.
I havnt tested since the recent updates but I felt my experience was crawling casting my defensive buffs as a paladin. Keeping SR, HW, TR, Courage and SP up, keeping my mana really low as I kept casting the spells for exp, I found it hard to get them really moving all that well. I felt I was focusing a ton on my spell casting and less on fighting, felt awkward.
I assume with the expanded ranges though most of those skills will teach better so ill report back soon.
I assume with the expanded ranges though most of those skills will teach better so ill report back soon.
Magic learning feels balanced to me, barring attunement, which is very slow compared to the rest of the magic skills. Even after cycling through to lock everything, attunement was still sitting at about 1/3 total pool. I don't know how to actively train that other than percing spellbooks and planets, and that's really, really slow. Casting spells seems to be a much better method, but it's still slow compared to the active magic being trained. I don't have a big problem with that, but locking all magics should probably have attunement up there too. Or maybe I'm just missing the good way to train attunement directly.
As a char without TM AOE cyclics, TM feels fine. Certainly much better than Prime in the +1000 range.
As a char without TM AOE cyclics, TM feels fine. Certainly much better than Prime in the +1000 range.
>>I havnt tested since the recent updates but I felt my experience was crawling casting my defensive buffs as a paladin. Keeping SR, HW, TR, Courage and SP up, keeping my mana really low as I kept casting the spells for exp, I found it hard to get them really moving all that well. I felt I was focusing a ton on my spell casting and less on fighting, felt awkward.
I feel the same way. The reason I felt it was this way was due to having to cast so high to learn. I have to cast spells in the 50 mana ranges to learn... to do this I need to either harness or use cambrinth. Im still not sold on this. I love that the now skill means something but at the same time I think that your attunement should increase with you... much more than it does currently. I shouldnt tank my entire attunement pool with one cast at 50 mana if 50 mana is what I have to cast at to train.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
I feel the same way. The reason I felt it was this way was due to having to cast so high to learn. I have to cast spells in the 50 mana ranges to learn... to do this I need to either harness or use cambrinth. Im still not sold on this. I love that the now skill means something but at the same time I think that your attunement should increase with you... much more than it does currently. I shouldnt tank my entire attunement pool with one cast at 50 mana if 50 mana is what I have to cast at to train.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
<<Or maybe I'm just missing the good way to train attunement directly.>>
Have you been using cambrinth to power your spells? If so, try using harnessed mana instead. That seems to move Attunement pretty well for me. Running a cyclic for a while directly from your attunement via Raw Channeling does a pretty good job of it, too. I noticed that when I switched to running it from cambrinth, the Attunement experience dropped off sharply.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Have you been using cambrinth to power your spells? If so, try using harnessed mana instead. That seems to move Attunement pretty well for me. Running a cyclic for a while directly from your attunement via Raw Channeling does a pretty good job of it, too. I noticed that when I switched to running it from cambrinth, the Attunement experience dropped off sharply.
Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor
Agreed the amount of mana you need to dump into spells to get them to learn is just too much i feel. It requires way to much management to the point where it becomes hard to focus on other stuff and try to have fun. It almost feels like this form of training is only going to be really viable if you script, and I think thats a terrible design decision.
The band of exp range based off mana/difficulty needs to be expanded I feel.
The band of exp range based off mana/difficulty needs to be expanded I feel.
I dont even think that the range of difficulty needs to change to fix the problem. I love that there is this huge range now to make use of higher skills. My issue is that at a certain skill point your attunement pool/mana efficiency just seems to stop growing. At circle 40ish I could cast a 20 mana cast and it would drain maybe 15-20% and a 7 mana cast wouldnt even budge me more than a few percent. Now Im nearing my 100th circle and it still takes the same % for both of those casts. I feel that when I cast a 50 mana spell at this point it should be taking the 15-20% attunement and I should be able to fling 20-30 mana casts and have them barely affect my attunement %. As it is now I dont feel like you grow into your spells. It feels like they outgrow you and you have to compensate with cambrinth now or harnessing. And I agree with you that I dont think this is a good design to force people into using either (except for things like cyclic spells of course).
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
I think it will take a long time for people to get used to the inverted attunement regeneration set-up. It's strange to adjust to attunement regenerating so much faster when it's low compared to full. While you might not be able to sling spells around without effecting your attunement at 100%, you very much can sling those same spells around (at the same mana) at 30% attunement. This has been the hardest thing for me to get used to in terms of magic management, but I like it.
It took me a little to grow used to it, but I find new magic to be fantastic. I'm not sure how it would work out for the magic primes out there, but as a tert I found the best way to train it was ignore it. I use a fair bit of magic during combat training and found Utility, Augment, and Warding usually hovered around 30/34, attunement staying around 15-17/34. The only skill I had to pay any attention to was debil, and I'm personally not jumping up and down again it anywho.
I know its been said a few times, but it really is the way to go, Embrace the cambrinth. I found myself using it to maintain attunement in 2.0, and the habits work out fantasticly in 3.0.
I know its been said a few times, but it really is the way to go, Embrace the cambrinth. I found myself using it to maintain attunement in 2.0, and the habits work out fantasticly in 3.0.
>>I think it will take a long time for people to get used to the inverted attunement regeneration set-up.
My issue isnt with the inversion of the regen. Its not being low on mana that bothers me. Staying at 100% mana isnt the problem I have. What bothers me is that if I straight cast a 60 mana spell (which is what I have to cast to learn from) then it burns half my Attunement %. I think this is wrong. If Im at 30% mana I cant cast a spell at a level that teaches me without camb or harness. And even then Im having to nit pick to make sure I dont bottom out. Is it doable? Sure. But it seems fundamentaly wrong to me.
>>Embrace the cambrinth. I found myself using it to maintain attunement in 2.0, and the habits work out fantasticly in 3.0.
This IS the problem. I love cambrinth I really do, but now you HAVE to use it or you just plain cant cast with any efficiency. Cambrinth should be that extra thing that makes me super efficient if I want to take the time to use it. Not the only viable way to train. As it is now like I said above if I dont use cambrinth then Im out of mana in two casts. Does it work this way in 2.0 as well? Yea but with the low caps its not as noticable since I dont need to cast as high. Now with the higher skill caps its a glaring issue since you need to use more mana to not only learn but to increase the effectiveness of the spell. I think one of the things that needs to change before this goes live is that the attunement pool needs to grow with the mage's skill.
So dont get me wrong. I love magic 3.0 and it has nothing to do with not being used to it. Other than a few ticks its honestly not that different from 2.0. My problem is that those new ticks have brought out issues in the general design that werent as obvious when you only needed to cast at 10 mana to be effective with most spells.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
My issue isnt with the inversion of the regen. Its not being low on mana that bothers me. Staying at 100% mana isnt the problem I have. What bothers me is that if I straight cast a 60 mana spell (which is what I have to cast to learn from) then it burns half my Attunement %. I think this is wrong. If Im at 30% mana I cant cast a spell at a level that teaches me without camb or harness. And even then Im having to nit pick to make sure I dont bottom out. Is it doable? Sure. But it seems fundamentaly wrong to me.
>>Embrace the cambrinth. I found myself using it to maintain attunement in 2.0, and the habits work out fantasticly in 3.0.
This IS the problem. I love cambrinth I really do, but now you HAVE to use it or you just plain cant cast with any efficiency. Cambrinth should be that extra thing that makes me super efficient if I want to take the time to use it. Not the only viable way to train. As it is now like I said above if I dont use cambrinth then Im out of mana in two casts. Does it work this way in 2.0 as well? Yea but with the low caps its not as noticable since I dont need to cast as high. Now with the higher skill caps its a glaring issue since you need to use more mana to not only learn but to increase the effectiveness of the spell. I think one of the things that needs to change before this goes live is that the attunement pool needs to grow with the mage's skill.
So dont get me wrong. I love magic 3.0 and it has nothing to do with not being used to it. Other than a few ticks its honestly not that different from 2.0. My problem is that those new ticks have brought out issues in the general design that werent as obvious when you only needed to cast at 10 mana to be effective with most spells.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
>>This IS the problem. I love cambrinth I really do, but now you HAVE to use it or you just plain cant cast with any efficiency.
Try prepping and harnessing up. If you're straight casting a full suite of buffs in 2.0, I'm straight up jealous. I flat out cannot. Even in a great mana room, using GoMana, Two capped casts generally wipe me out. Now, I can prep low, harness chunks of 10 all day in a good mana room, but I'm STILL taking steps to stretch out attunement. This concept hasn't changed for me in 3.0. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its BETTER in 3.0 as I can easily fire off a half dozen spells at 70-100 mana per, via ONLY charging cambrinth DURING prep time. Not pre charging (as I have to do in 2.0).
I highly suggest trying to approach the 3.0 stuff as a new deal, leaving preconceptions behind and finding what works best in the new stuffs, its a LOT less grey hair inducing.
Try prepping and harnessing up. If you're straight casting a full suite of buffs in 2.0, I'm straight up jealous. I flat out cannot. Even in a great mana room, using GoMana, Two capped casts generally wipe me out. Now, I can prep low, harness chunks of 10 all day in a good mana room, but I'm STILL taking steps to stretch out attunement. This concept hasn't changed for me in 3.0. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its BETTER in 3.0 as I can easily fire off a half dozen spells at 70-100 mana per, via ONLY charging cambrinth DURING prep time. Not pre charging (as I have to do in 2.0).
I highly suggest trying to approach the 3.0 stuff as a new deal, leaving preconceptions behind and finding what works best in the new stuffs, its a LOT less grey hair inducing.
Yeah, I've never ever straight casted a capped spell even in 2.0. I always prep low and harness in 30 mana chunks.
The only thing that's changed in 3.0 for me is that I use cambrinth now instead of harnessing mana. With the CHARGE and FOCUS RT reductions though, I'm only spending maybe 1 more second of total RT if I'm just doing one round. charge 2rt + focus 2rt = 4rt as opposed to harness 3rt.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
The only thing that's changed in 3.0 for me is that I use cambrinth now instead of harnessing mana. With the CHARGE and FOCUS RT reductions though, I'm only spending maybe 1 more second of total RT if I'm just doing one round. charge 2rt + focus 2rt = 4rt as opposed to harness 3rt.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Actually now that I think about it, I wish there was -some- kind of benefit to harnessing mana in 3.0. Right now if you have cambrinth in 3.0 there's virtually no reason that I'm aware of to ever use harnessed mana.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
>This concept hasn't changed for me in 3.0.
Heh no one seems to actually be reading what i've written. As I said in my previous post casting at cap in 2.0 and casting the same amount in 3.0 is no different. In 2.0 a lot of the caps are 50-60 mana or so. I can cast that in both 2.0 and 3.0 about two times and I'm tapped. And thats my issue. They increased the mana ranges and teaching ranges on all these spells but they didn't touch attunement other than reversing regen. I notice no difference in my straight casting efficiency when by all means attunement should be growing along with skill.
In 2.0 you dont need to cast high unless you want duration on most spells. Otherwise a 10-20 mana cast is just fine and rather powerful. I'm fine with that not bein the case in 3.0 but if I have to cast so much higher then my skill in attunement should allow me to better use high amounts of mana. At 500+ magics I shouldn't get tapped casting two personal cap spells. That seems to fight against the idea of growth.
I shouldn't have to harness or use camb if I dont want to. Should harnessing and camb use alleviate mana usage? Sure but it shouldn't be unfeasible to not do either and still be effective. The whole issue is that they DIDN'T change this aspect of magic from 2.0. To me this seems like a huge oversight. It makes it feel like I'm not growing into my spells. It feels like I'm having to use outside help because I'm incapable of using my magic at the levels I'm required to.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Heh no one seems to actually be reading what i've written. As I said in my previous post casting at cap in 2.0 and casting the same amount in 3.0 is no different. In 2.0 a lot of the caps are 50-60 mana or so. I can cast that in both 2.0 and 3.0 about two times and I'm tapped. And thats my issue. They increased the mana ranges and teaching ranges on all these spells but they didn't touch attunement other than reversing regen. I notice no difference in my straight casting efficiency when by all means attunement should be growing along with skill.
In 2.0 you dont need to cast high unless you want duration on most spells. Otherwise a 10-20 mana cast is just fine and rather powerful. I'm fine with that not bein the case in 3.0 but if I have to cast so much higher then my skill in attunement should allow me to better use high amounts of mana. At 500+ magics I shouldn't get tapped casting two personal cap spells. That seems to fight against the idea of growth.
I shouldn't have to harness or use camb if I dont want to. Should harnessing and camb use alleviate mana usage? Sure but it shouldn't be unfeasible to not do either and still be effective. The whole issue is that they DIDN'T change this aspect of magic from 2.0. To me this seems like a huge oversight. It makes it feel like I'm not growing into my spells. It feels like I'm having to use outside help because I'm incapable of using my magic at the levels I'm required to.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
And just to clear it up I do use camb when I cast high in 2.0. But only because its required. I dont feel like you should have to use those if you choose not to. The difference should only be can I cast 5 personal cap spells or 8. Not can I cast twice or infinite. The whole point of magic 3.0 was to make it flow more naturally with skill.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
>>Actually now that I think about it, I wish there was -some- kind of benefit to harnessing mana in 3.0. Right now if you have cambrinth in 3.0 there's virtually no reason that I'm aware of to ever use harnessed mana.
Speed?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Speed?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Sorry for the triple post. I honestly think this could be fixed by looking at the attunement formula. Currently you get 1 point of attunement per 10 points in harness. I think this should be adjusted to more like per 2-3 ranks in Attunement in 3.0. This would more noticeably increase the attunement pool and make it feel like a mage is actually growing in power and efficiency.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
I used camb in 2.0 to train magic, so maybe I'm not seeing this "yeah, use cambrinth and/or harnessing in 3.0" thing as a crazy notion.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
<<And just to clear it up I do use camb when I cast high in 2.0. But only because its required. I dont feel like you should have to use those if you choose not to. The difference should only be can I cast 5 personal cap spells or 8. Not can I cast twice or infinite.>>
I think I understand what you're saying now. It's a matter of scaling the efficiency benefit of camb/harnessing. And I agree, I think the "penalty" to straight prep could use some tweaking. I like that the balancing of attunement has been made more difficult, but I agree that there's room to balance it a bit more.
I think I understand what you're saying now. It's a matter of scaling the efficiency benefit of camb/harnessing. And I agree, I think the "penalty" to straight prep could use some tweaking. I like that the balancing of attunement has been made more difficult, but I agree that there's room to balance it a bit more.
