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ReplyCan we please get a clear description of what role a Moon Mage is going to play in combat in 3.0? If group combat is supposed to be a larger facet of the game I would like to know where a MM fits into this.
I have not had as much time as I would like to test yet. I would like to verify if we are still planned to be the masters of debilitation and how are magic is being designed to meet this goal. Are we intended to be as viable in combat as other guilds? Or are we supposed to be away from battle?
Currently I feel like moon mages are being moved into a gray area that is neither one or the other. And sorry to be forward. But I do not want to hear what my fellow players think we are. I am sure we all have our own idea in this regard and it might just cause conflicts.
I want to know what the GMS are planning MM to be and what goals they have in place to ensure we are comfortable in our role.
In reality as in dreams, nothing is quite as it seems.
Is anyone actually having trouble finding ways to use MM abilities in combat?
My weapons work fine. My TM works fine. My disablers work fine.
I don't do group combat much, but I feel like SOV + MB (to sleep mobs that others stun) plus TKS not being angry at EVERYONE any more = a pretty nice support suite.
And MG + SM + Thoughtcast + RS should make for pretty handy triage support. That is, if you want to play a support role, and not just trash the mobs with your magic and (hard-earned) weapon skills.
Basically, my professional opinion is that MMs rock, they aren't really weak in ANY category other than weapon/armor skillset placement (which we can mitigate a little with predictions). The great part about not being "a combat guild" is that while we can still work combat ranks as high as we want, we also don't HAVE to spend all our time in combat just to circle. Unless we want to, in which case.... we can. I am a little sad that I can no longer lock LM in under 5 minutes by spamming PD (mana allowing), but I admit that was silly to begin with.
Once I have time to really dig into testing things, I'm going to play around with combat using only weapons, tactics, and TS spells. It might be weird and less directly damaging dazzle/burn/rinse/repeat, but oh the flavor.
My weapons work fine. My TM works fine. My disablers work fine.
I don't do group combat much, but I feel like SOV + MB (to sleep mobs that others stun) plus TKS not being angry at EVERYONE any more = a pretty nice support suite.
And MG + SM + Thoughtcast + RS should make for pretty handy triage support. That is, if you want to play a support role, and not just trash the mobs with your magic and (hard-earned) weapon skills.
Basically, my professional opinion is that MMs rock, they aren't really weak in ANY category other than weapon/armor skillset placement (which we can mitigate a little with predictions). The great part about not being "a combat guild" is that while we can still work combat ranks as high as we want, we also don't HAVE to spend all our time in combat just to circle. Unless we want to, in which case.... we can. I am a little sad that I can no longer lock LM in under 5 minutes by spamming PD (mana allowing), but I admit that was silly to begin with.
Once I have time to really dig into testing things, I'm going to play around with combat using only weapons, tactics, and TS spells. It might be weird and less directly damaging dazzle/burn/rinse/repeat, but oh the flavor.
>I don't do group combat much, but I feel like SOV + MB (to sleep mobs that others stun) plus TKS not being angry at EVERYONE any more = a pretty nice support suite.
I'm a little disappointed with TKS to be honest with you. I definitely preferred the old version of it being a pulse spell and I liked that we had no control of the wild whirlwind of items.
I think that one hit per critter is a little lame. I'd rather use TKT individually and get 4 hits to one thing rather than spreading my energy across the board.
I'd love it if the spell lasted for a few pulses. Love love love it.
All that being said, I'm looking forward to SLS being fixed because I think it's going to fill my needs and keep the TM damage going while I hack and slash with my melee weapons.
-Coralin
I'm a little disappointed with TKS to be honest with you. I definitely preferred the old version of it being a pulse spell and I liked that we had no control of the wild whirlwind of items.
I think that one hit per critter is a little lame. I'd rather use TKT individually and get 4 hits to one thing rather than spreading my energy across the board.
I'd love it if the spell lasted for a few pulses. Love love love it.
All that being said, I'm looking forward to SLS being fixed because I think it's going to fill my needs and keep the TM damage going while I hack and slash with my melee weapons.
-Coralin
>>wait, is TKS not a cyclic AoE TM?
no, its probably one of the worst aoe ones. Save for damage, its damage is pretty good.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
>wait, is TKS not a cyclic AoE TM?
Nope, it's just a one and done kinda deal.
>target tks 50
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You make a careless gesture as you chant the words for the Telekinetic Storm spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself that is designed to strike the avenues of attack around you.
(Time passes while I wait for the full target)
>cast
You gesture.
An ominous rustling comes from all around as debris takes flight of its own accord!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a very heavy hit to its chest!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its neck!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a hard hit to its left leg!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its neck!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Kinda lackluster.
-Coralin
Nope, it's just a one and done kinda deal.
>target tks 50
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You make a careless gesture as you chant the words for the Telekinetic Storm spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself that is designed to strike the avenues of attack around you.
(Time passes while I wait for the full target)
>cast
You gesture.
An ominous rustling comes from all around as debris takes flight of its own accord!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a very heavy hit to its chest!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its neck!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a hard hit to its left leg!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its neck!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Kinda lackluster.
-Coralin
should also note that this is on four targets, it will only hit once per target.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
I've only been getting one hit no matter how many targets.
>target tks 40
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You make a careless gesture as you chant the words for the Telekinetic Storm spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself that is designed to strike the avenues of attack around you.
>look
[Telpengi'hhs Sara'a, Catacombs]
Gracing the center of the chamber the way a delicate princess might exhibit herself at a grand ball, a jade dragon statuette perches upon a semicircle of granite. This centerpiece, like an indignant lady of royalty, has its back turned to the outcast -- an obsidian-black door, the darkest form of shadow against the room's gloom. If only dancers were present at this allusive gathering, they would twirl on a floor littered with crushed skulls. You also see a misshapen germish'din.
Obvious exits: southeast, south, southwest.
>
Your cage of light loses cohesion and drifts away as motes of blue-white light.
>
The misshapen germish'din begins to advance on you!
The misshapen germish'din advances from nearby and is closing steadily.
>
The misshapen germish'din closes to melee range on you!
>cast
Your target pattern has finished forming around the area.
>
You gesture.
An ominous rustling comes from all around as debris takes flight of its own accord!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
-Coralin
>target tks 40
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You make a careless gesture as you chant the words for the Telekinetic Storm spell.
You begin to weave mana lines into a targeting pattern centered around yourself that is designed to strike the avenues of attack around you.
>look
[Telpengi'hhs Sara'a, Catacombs]
Gracing the center of the chamber the way a delicate princess might exhibit herself at a grand ball, a jade dragon statuette perches upon a semicircle of granite. This centerpiece, like an indignant lady of royalty, has its back turned to the outcast -- an obsidian-black door, the darkest form of shadow against the room's gloom. If only dancers were present at this allusive gathering, they would twirl on a floor littered with crushed skulls. You also see a misshapen germish'din.
Obvious exits: southeast, south, southwest.
>
Your cage of light loses cohesion and drifts away as motes of blue-white light.
>
The misshapen germish'din begins to advance on you!
The misshapen germish'din advances from nearby and is closing steadily.
>
The misshapen germish'din closes to melee range on you!
>cast
Your target pattern has finished forming around the area.
>
You gesture.
An ominous rustling comes from all around as debris takes flight of its own accord!
A wee ebony sliver suddenly swings from orbiting around your head and hurtles toward a misshapen germish'din!
The ebony sliver lands a solid hit to its abdomen!
The ebony sliver explodes into even tinier multicolored fragments and vanishes!
Roundtime: 2 sec.
-Coralin
>>I've only been getting one hit no matter how many targets.
This is correct.
>>It's no accident. Every guild is meant to have holes in their spellbook. AoE is one for MMs
This is also correct.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
This is correct.
>>It's no accident. Every guild is meant to have holes in their spellbook. AoE is one for MMs
This is also correct.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
>>I guess that makes sense. What are the holes in each guilds spellbooks?
My guesses...
Paladins: Debilitative magic
Clerics: Physical defenses
Rangers: Area/Group management
Empaths: Offensive magic
War Mages: Defensive magic
Bards: Non-cyclic magic
Necromancers: Debilitative magic, which seems kinda surprising to me but yeah.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
My guesses...
Paladins: Debilitative magic
Clerics: Physical defenses
Rangers: Area/Group management
Empaths: Offensive magic
War Mages: Defensive magic
Bards: Non-cyclic magic
Necromancers: Debilitative magic, which seems kinda surprising to me but yeah.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>Clerics: Physical defenses
They have some pretty powerful physical barriers. Also the only physical defense they can't boost through magic is parry.(I might be wrong and they do get a parry boost, but I know they get a shield(sol) and evasion(MaPP). I'm not sure they lack anything really, or have a significant weakness. Not that they are OP or anything, some of their stuff feels very middle of the road other stuff is amazing. But you'd be hard pressed to actually find something weak about them. Their spells do demand high devotion, but thats not exactly something thats hard to keep up, but its tricky to build up at first and severly detrimental when low.
>>War Mages: Defensive magic
Yeah maybe. Their defensive spells are pretty strong and most powerful ones are ritual spells, they just don't have "alot" but each one they have is rather good. So I'm kinda on the fence on seeing that. Then again I don't play a warmie so no idea. They definitely have more defensive spells than moon mages.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
>>Clerics are missing weapons boosters. (direct) Other than that they have basically a great host of spells.
Same can be said of Moon Mages, so unless its also supposed to be a weakness of moon mages.
>>War mages are missing anti-stealth spells, stat boosters are few in number.
Again, said can be said of clerics for the first half(though this might be changing if Revelation and that other spell with Kertigan come back), same can be said for Moon Mages for the latter.
After going over their list their real weakness is anything not related to direct combat. Even AC and Ward Break(WM dispel) are geared more towards combat. Outside of the battlefield short of Zephyr(which really how many non-combat stuff is actually fatiguing?) and providing bards with mana they are useless.
Stealth and Anti-stealth aren't a weakness since you'll find most guilds have this weakness. Its more of a boon to the guilds that have it than a weakness. A weakness is something that is worse than average. If the average thing is to not have stealth or anti-stealth than it cannot be considered a weakness.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
War Mages: Defensive magic
hmm. Swirling winds + sure footing + y'sentra + ether shield = fairly good defensive setup, as compared to MM seers + col. At least in WMs -MMs around 50ish, 60ish in circle.
Cleric benediction + MPP + MAPP is pretty good physical protection.
necro debilitiation heighten pain is decent.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
hmm. Swirling winds + sure footing + y'sentra + ether shield = fairly good defensive setup, as compared to MM seers + col. At least in WMs -MMs around 50ish, 60ish in circle.
Cleric benediction + MPP + MAPP is pretty good physical protection.
necro debilitiation heighten pain is decent.
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
>>>Same can be said of Moon Mages,
No moon mages have predictions.
>>>>>Stealth and Anti-stealth aren't a weakness since you'll find most guilds have this weakness.
Moon Mages have CV, and a spell that gives them point effect. Pretty strong stuff. It's a weakness not to have it.
Moon Mages HAVE all an AOE spell, Wards, TM, stat boosters, stealth and anti-stealth, debils, and can boost ANY skill they want via...
Basically, they have it all...
>and a spell that gives them point effect.
Now I may be wrong here but I assume you are speaking of Scry which we no longer have in Locate 3.0 nor was it made a separate spell like it was supposed to be.
>Moon Mages HAVE all an AOE spell, Wards, TM, stat boosters, stealth and anti-stealth, debils, and can boost ANY skill they want via...
Now Im not really going to GvG here since its pointless but for AOE read the previous statements... we have one and its weak, very weak. Wards.. yeah. TM.. sure but every magic guild aside Empaths have a fairly decent amount of TM spells. Stat boosters... this is the same as TM. Im not an all knowing on other guilds spells but I do believe they (MU guilds.. sorry know nothing of NMUs) all have stat boosters. Stealth and anti-stealth.. stealth for sure, but I guess I dont really call a perception boost anti-stealth. Sure it may boost up enough to be able to search someone out if youre relatively close but thats nothing special. I believe all the Magic Primes have something along the same lines. Debilitators.. again everyone has these, we just have a few more than normal similar to how WMs have more TM spells then we do. Lastly predictions I cant say much against since its sort of the special issue. Yes we can use them to boost about anything but there are some pretty big limitations on them and to truly use them to the fullest takes a ton of foresight. We cant use them in battle, even with align its not a given that we hit the right skill or even bonus it (curses ftw) and it takes a good deal of skill to make them really good. At full pools and 300s+ in Astrology Im only getting several minutes of an ok (between 30-60 ranks which at the higher levels doesnt amount to much) bonus. And this is if its nighttime with the proper moons/stars out. Otherwise it cant even be used.
Im not going to say we have it bad by any means, I love my guild and it has hands down some of the best lore and development in the game, but we hardly have everything. But thats what makes it good. If everyone did have everything choices would be moot.
Grass is always greener I suppose.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
Now I may be wrong here but I assume you are speaking of Scry which we no longer have in Locate 3.0 nor was it made a separate spell like it was supposed to be.
>Moon Mages HAVE all an AOE spell, Wards, TM, stat boosters, stealth and anti-stealth, debils, and can boost ANY skill they want via...
Now Im not really going to GvG here since its pointless but for AOE read the previous statements... we have one and its weak, very weak. Wards.. yeah. TM.. sure but every magic guild aside Empaths have a fairly decent amount of TM spells. Stat boosters... this is the same as TM. Im not an all knowing on other guilds spells but I do believe they (MU guilds.. sorry know nothing of NMUs) all have stat boosters. Stealth and anti-stealth.. stealth for sure, but I guess I dont really call a perception boost anti-stealth. Sure it may boost up enough to be able to search someone out if youre relatively close but thats nothing special. I believe all the Magic Primes have something along the same lines. Debilitators.. again everyone has these, we just have a few more than normal similar to how WMs have more TM spells then we do. Lastly predictions I cant say much against since its sort of the special issue. Yes we can use them to boost about anything but there are some pretty big limitations on them and to truly use them to the fullest takes a ton of foresight. We cant use them in battle, even with align its not a given that we hit the right skill or even bonus it (curses ftw) and it takes a good deal of skill to make them really good. At full pools and 300s+ in Astrology Im only getting several minutes of an ok (between 30-60 ranks which at the higher levels doesnt amount to much) bonus. And this is if its nighttime with the proper moons/stars out. Otherwise it cant even be used.
Im not going to say we have it bad by any means, I love my guild and it has hands down some of the best lore and development in the game, but we hardly have everything. But thats what makes it good. If everyone did have everything choices would be moot.
Grass is always greener I suppose.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
It should be pointed out that, in 3.0, a 'weakness' is not the absense of a function, since all guilds seem to have at least 1 selection of stuff for training purposes. A weakness is a deliberate conceptual hole in a guilds catalogue of abilities. An area where they anti-excel. MMs for example are amazing at that whole utility thing. WM? Not so much.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
>>It should be pointed out that, in 3.0, a 'weakness' is not the absense of a function, since all guilds seem to have at least 1 selection of stuff for training purposes. A weakness is a deliberate conceptual hole in a guilds catalogue of abilities. An area where they anti-excel. MMs for example are amazing at that whole utility thing. WM? Not so much.
I'd like to thank you for posting this(omg where has the world gone? it must be really cold in the deep south).
But yes, you are right on every aspect. Whether or not a guild is good at a specific thing(lets say shield skill) is dependent on SoI. Whether or not they have access to it from their own spellbooks or abilities is based on concept. There is one exception that I know of to this and that is a spell that is only in existence because of legacy. Another might be bards, cause dear god do they break SoI, but considering they're bards this makes sense.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
I'd like to thank you for posting this(omg where has the world gone? it must be really cold in the deep south).
But yes, you are right on every aspect. Whether or not a guild is good at a specific thing(lets say shield skill) is dependent on SoI. Whether or not they have access to it from their own spellbooks or abilities is based on concept. There is one exception that I know of to this and that is a spell that is only in existence because of legacy. Another might be bards, cause dear god do they break SoI, but considering they're bards this makes sense.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
>>Is it confirmed that Scry is scrapped or just not released at this time? That was one of the spells I was looking forward to the most.
Still planned, might not make release.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Still planned, might not make release.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Can we please get the GvG discussion off this forum? It's cluttering things up quite a bit when this really isn't a (useful) 3.0 test discussion. As Socharis so recently said in another thread, the best place to move it to is likely nowhere.
Thanks.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Thanks.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
