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>>Puh-leeeze. There was a massive penalty in place to stop people from flooding the market with forged goods off pure mech lore skill.
Let's not act like this penalty did much when it came to people with super crazy ranks in mech.
Unless people were trying to make swappables or full body armor, they weren't that bad off.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>Puh-leeeze. There was a massive penalty in place to stop people from flooding the market with forged goods off pure mech lore skill.
Until they announced careers and hobbies would be wiped on 3.0 and half the friggin realms picked up weaponsmithing.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Until they announced careers and hobbies would be wiped on 3.0 and half the friggin realms picked up weaponsmithing.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
>>Let's not act like this penalty did much when it came to people with super crazy ranks in mech.
More like let's not act like you have a clue what it's like to have super crazy ranks in anything. As the person with the highest mech lore, arguably "flooding the market" more than anyone else, I can tell you that the FACT is that the penalty was huge, and I'll be able to make way more weapon and armor items after 3.0 comes out than I could for the past couple years on live servers.
Act all you want like releasing 3.0 will stop people who don't dedicate a career or hobby to weaponsmithing/armorsmithing, but the fact is that things will get much easier now that the penalty will be removed.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
More like let's not act like you have a clue what it's like to have super crazy ranks in anything. As the person with the highest mech lore, arguably "flooding the market" more than anyone else, I can tell you that the FACT is that the penalty was huge, and I'll be able to make way more weapon and armor items after 3.0 comes out than I could for the past couple years on live servers.
Act all you want like releasing 3.0 will stop people who don't dedicate a career or hobby to weaponsmithing/armorsmithing, but the fact is that things will get much easier now that the penalty will be removed.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>More like let's not act like you have a clue what it's like to have super crazy ranks in anything. As the person with the highest mech lore, arguably "flooding the market" more than anyone else, I can tell you that the FACT is that the penalty was huge
So you didn't make weapons and armor just fine without investing in techs and/or a career/hobby? I had no issue with making lower tier weapons/armor with rare metals despite having no armor/weapon techs, and, as you claiemd I lack "super crazy ranks".
>>and I'll be able to make way more weapon and armor items after 3.0 comes out than I could for the past couple years on live servers.
Great!
>>Act all you want like releasing 3.0 will stop people who don't dedicate a career or hobby to weaponsmithing/armorsmithing, but the fact is that things will get much easier now that the penalty will be removed.
Who said it will stop people? All I said was that mech shouldn't function as an ur-skill once 3.0 is out the door, and people should have to dedicate points into the specific crafting skills if they want to make stuff.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
So you didn't make weapons and armor just fine without investing in techs and/or a career/hobby? I had no issue with making lower tier weapons/armor with rare metals despite having no armor/weapon techs, and, as you claiemd I lack "super crazy ranks".
>>and I'll be able to make way more weapon and armor items after 3.0 comes out than I could for the past couple years on live servers.
Great!
>>Act all you want like releasing 3.0 will stop people who don't dedicate a career or hobby to weaponsmithing/armorsmithing, but the fact is that things will get much easier now that the penalty will be removed.
Who said it will stop people? All I said was that mech shouldn't function as an ur-skill once 3.0 is out the door, and people should have to dedicate points into the specific crafting skills if they want to make stuff.
When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/
>>So you didn't make weapons and armor just fine without investing in techs and/or a career/hobby?
Sure I could make some weapons and some armor just fine. But almost all custom weapon and armor orders that I received from customers, I had to turn down because I didn't have as much effective skill as the career smiths with half my mech lore base ranks.
>>Who said it will stop people? All I said was that mech shouldn't function as an ur-skill once 3.0 is out the door, and people should have to dedicate points into the specific crafting skills if they want to make stuff.
As long as they keep the massive penalties in place, I don't really see a problem with leaving Mech Lore as a catch all crafting skill. I'm also not sure I see a legitimate need for doing that, but I don't think it would really hurt things either.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Sure I could make some weapons and some armor just fine. But almost all custom weapon and armor orders that I received from customers, I had to turn down because I didn't have as much effective skill as the career smiths with half my mech lore base ranks.
>>Who said it will stop people? All I said was that mech shouldn't function as an ur-skill once 3.0 is out the door, and people should have to dedicate points into the specific crafting skills if they want to make stuff.
As long as they keep the massive penalties in place, I don't really see a problem with leaving Mech Lore as a catch all crafting skill. I'm also not sure I see a legitimate need for doing that, but I don't think it would really hurt things either.
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>I'll say it again, intent doesn't really matter here, only what the outcome is.
Why haven't we addressed this yet? Outcomes differ depending on your choices. That is the nature of having choices. This happens to be one of those differing outcomes.
Now that that is out of the way... I don't see a particular need to have a fully-established trader-shop pricing structure before the skill takes over. If you have lots of skill now, you can wait to start taking part in the skill until the market is established or you can help establish the supply side. Choice is yours. Why delay the entire skill for a temporary mechanism?
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
Why haven't we addressed this yet? Outcomes differ depending on your choices. That is the nature of having choices. This happens to be one of those differing outcomes.
Now that that is out of the way... I don't see a particular need to have a fully-established trader-shop pricing structure before the skill takes over. If you have lots of skill now, you can wait to start taking part in the skill until the market is established or you can help establish the supply side. Choice is yours. Why delay the entire skill for a temporary mechanism?
--Wryhk
1st grade tl;dr version:
Numbers didn't change. Words changed. Words don't matter. Numbers all that matters.
--GRIM45
In hindsight it probably would of been better to release only a few items in each craft to make all levels trainable and then move onto the next craft, getting all crafts out quickly as atleast "trainable". And then flesh them out with more items.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>In hindsight it probably would of been better to release only a few items in each craft to make all levels trainable and then move onto the next craft, getting all crafts out quickly as atleast "trainable". And then flesh them out with more items.
That's not something that could have been done without either leaving the old version of the crafting system on (which would cause all manner of confusing) or turning it off (leaving all of those crafters frustrated that they can no longer make all of the things, since they're limited to that small set).
Everybody crafting everything in 2.0 is a direct result of the mech split not having happened yet. The intent wasn't to give everybody a preview before they had to pick a skill - That's a nice side effect, but it was never a goal and as soon as we can (IE once mech has been split), that perk goes away in favor of a system where you have to actually be skilled in something to do it.
Remember, you don't have to pick your career and hobby before you start training a skill. If you're hesitant, try it out for a little bit and see if it suits you. No preview of the ultimate end game needed.
It's also worth noting that new characters and characters coming back from before the new crafting skills were released don't have access to the happy preview period that y'all have had anyway.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
That's not something that could have been done without either leaving the old version of the crafting system on (which would cause all manner of confusing) or turning it off (leaving all of those crafters frustrated that they can no longer make all of the things, since they're limited to that small set).
Everybody crafting everything in 2.0 is a direct result of the mech split not having happened yet. The intent wasn't to give everybody a preview before they had to pick a skill - That's a nice side effect, but it was never a goal and as soon as we can (IE once mech has been split), that perk goes away in favor of a system where you have to actually be skilled in something to do it.
Remember, you don't have to pick your career and hobby before you start training a skill. If you're hesitant, try it out for a little bit and see if it suits you. No preview of the ultimate end game needed.
It's also worth noting that new characters and characters coming back from before the new crafting skills were released don't have access to the happy preview period that y'all have had anyway.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>but the fact is that things will get much easier now that the penalty will be removed
To illustrate Apu's point:
My 600+ Mech career Blacksmith will have expanded capabilities in Forging weapons and armor because the penalty will be removed in those disciplines, and I'll retain MOST of my Mech ranks there. I will however, be losing out on being able to tailor/carve stuff.
My goal is to find the Mech split point that screws me the least in Forging while being able to give the most to Outfitting skill (for planned second career in Jewelcrafting or perhaps Artistry). (I'm thinking split myself down to 501 Forging to retain Intricate WO)
>So you didn't make weapons and armor just fine without investing in techs and/or a career/hobby?
The penalty for me is rather severe. With career+techs I do Difficult WO in iron daily (have for about 50 ranks I think), with no career but techniques in certain tailoring aspects I was forced down about 2 full crafting difficulties. With neither I'd say I was forced down 4, maybe 5 levels (what I practice with occasional weaponsmithing/armorsmithing by request). In practical terms, that'd be going from a bastard sword to a sabre, or a mail hauberk to chain balaclava. It's quite a drop.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
To illustrate Apu's point:
My 600+ Mech career Blacksmith will have expanded capabilities in Forging weapons and armor because the penalty will be removed in those disciplines, and I'll retain MOST of my Mech ranks there. I will however, be losing out on being able to tailor/carve stuff.
My goal is to find the Mech split point that screws me the least in Forging while being able to give the most to Outfitting skill (for planned second career in Jewelcrafting or perhaps Artistry). (I'm thinking split myself down to 501 Forging to retain Intricate WO)
>So you didn't make weapons and armor just fine without investing in techs and/or a career/hobby?
The penalty for me is rather severe. With career+techs I do Difficult WO in iron daily (have for about 50 ranks I think), with no career but techniques in certain tailoring aspects I was forced down about 2 full crafting difficulties. With neither I'd say I was forced down 4, maybe 5 levels (what I practice with occasional weaponsmithing/armorsmithing by request). In practical terms, that'd be going from a bastard sword to a sabre, or a mail hauberk to chain balaclava. It's quite a drop.
Naniaki Felyran
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
