In the "Open Closed Guarded" thread in the PVP Policy section, there was a post made by TEVESHSZAT/Pureblade that made me ponder over things for awhile. I have him ignored at this point so I can't pull up the post, but he presented a link from Elanthipedia (found here: http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Post:Why_You_DON%27T_PvP_Survey_-_06/22/2011_-_23:49) with a post that Solomon had made in 2011 saying "A Guarded/Closed person cannot taunt, incite, bully, harass, or in any other manner "egg on" a conflict with an Open person (or anyone else, for that matter) and then turn around and say, "You can't touch me, I'm Guarded/Closed" and I don't want to fight. Haha!" This was a solid post from Pureblade in reference to Solomon's post from 2011, if the link to Elanthipedia would actually make any difference. The sad thing is, it doesn't.

As it stands right now, anything outside of in game or maybe the forums cannot be used for something to be settled in game, through a report, an assist, or through feedback. Based on personal experience, I have spoken with GMs in game and have been given different situations. One time, when a GM was trying to assist me with something that had "broken", I had been referred to look at Elanthipedia to get information on the said item that was broken. Another time, I provided information FROM Elanthipedia to reinforce something I was discussing with a GM and was told since it was not in game, it could not be used. E-mails (unless directly from feedback or a GM) cannot be used, IMs cannot be used, Elanthipedia cannot be used, and for the most part the forums cannot be used. So why can the forums not be used? Well, to beat a dead horse.. there is no search function. I would LOVE to be able to pull up the post in the DR forums made by Solomon back in 2011 and give that post to the GMs and hosts when they come down to address an issue in game, but guess what? I can't. I can't search the forums to find anything providing any examples. And even following the Elanthipedia link at TEV's suggestion, under "Discussions with Dragonrealms Staff and Players -> General Discussions", I can't find the "Why you DON'T PvP Survey" thread, or Solomon's post from 2011, because the oldest thread you can see is "Dragonrealms Platinum: Pros ~ Cons" started back in 01/22/2014.

Elanthipedia cannot be used in policy discussions because it is not a SIMU product. If you take a look at the HISTORY of the page that was created, it was created by user ISHARON. I find it fantastic that these players are spending their time linking things into Elanthipedia for archived information, but when it comes to being used as fact, it is disregarded by GMs and hosts because it is not in game, nor on the forums. Or maybe it WAS on the forums, but the forums have been presented in such a way that finding such information can be next to difficult at best, or (more commonly) too old to be referenced at worst.

So this comes to the "Zero Liabilty" part. I have realized that the reason that "Guarded" is so preserved is because Simutronics has created a nice little bundle that grants not only the players zero liability, but their staff as well. They have created rules that are gray and loosely based, forums that cannot be searched, and will use outside sources when it fits their needs but will deny information provided from outside sources when it's brought to their attention. I understand that the GMs cannot use Elanthipedia as a resource for rules BECAUSE any user can modify things at a whim.. but another resource should be provided in it's stead, but that would make them liable for things that they say.

So as much as I'd like to see Guarded go away and stick with Open and Closed, as discussed in the PVP Policy section.. it won't go away until the mentality changes.

Guarded is Dragonrealms, Guarded is Simutronics. Guarded is the stance that most GMs in relation to Simutronics, it's product, and it's playerbase.

>>Interesting plot twist, what happens when Simutronics takes over Elanthipedia?

Simutronics isn't taking over epedia. They're just hosting it.

That said, is there an issue with GMs not trusting posts on epedia because users may be changing what GMs said in archived posts? I'm pretty sure the moderators of epedia tend to make sure things like that don't take place.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>Simutronics isn't taking over epedia. They're just hosting it.

I dunno, I believe they're going to take over epedia, and they can update or change any inaccurate posts. That way it'll be Simutronics property and we can utilize what's on there and reference what GM's have said/didn't say.

>You can believe lots of things.

Indeed, so when Simutronics takes over Elanthipedia that's going to be an interesting twist in Uritel's message. That would change the ruling of Elanthipedia cannot be used in policy discussions because it is not a SIMU product. Once they take it over, it'll be a SIMU product along with the contents.

>They can already do this.

Than if a user changes what a GM says, a GM can just change it back, and it can actually become a place where we can easily find posts by staff.

>>...is that not, exactly, verbatim, what it is, right this second?

They can, but if Elanthipedia became a Simu "product" or "service", and GMs were to make changes on Elanthipedia.. it goes back to liability. Which they don't want.

Just as an aside, the way it's been discussed isn't really how corporate culpability has ever been presented to me.

Any time it has been presented to me, it's been fairly clear: You must clearly and openly identify yourself as a representative of the company, including your real name etc., to comment on industry or 'insider' knowledge. You must also have the direct approval of your boss or HR or similar group to make any comments.

This doesn't change whether it's a 'public' or 'private' forum, and doesn't change regarding who hosts the forum. If I were to suddenly start discussing technical details of my job as it pertains to the industry I work in, it would not matter that I'm doing so in Simutronics forums, I'd have to abide by those rules.

Where we get sticky is that the wiki is a fan effort devoted to a Simutronics product. The GMs do not make any (for the sake of argument, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me) direct editing of the wiki in GM capacity right now; what is captured there is a copy of publicly available knowledge and information (that is, you can search the forums without logging in to see all these posts) there are no posts revealing 'secret' information, like hard formulas, GM insider information, or other information not publicly available. They don't even regularly publish DR: Plat information when it's a preview/early access situation, so even the public/restricted access forums aren't posted there.

I've never heard a GM say 'I don't trust the wiki because it's user edited'. I'm inclined to believe that this is all, really, hand waving for nothing, and fear of change.

Simu has historically said, any time something like this comes up, 'I don't care what I said before, here is what I say now and that is what is going to happen'. Simu is not a common law organization. It doesn't have to abide precedent. It just does what it wants. As Nikpack said, you can appeal to the feedback 'higher source', and if the decision made originally was egregiously wrong, they will correct it. But most of the time, Johhny On the Spot GM calls are going to be backed. Because that's how it is.

Of course 'emails' and 'IMs' can't be used. They ARE easy to fake. You might as well say 'I grew up next to Solomon and he told me personally XYZ'. And user content for the wiki can't be used as set in stone either, because the company doesn't create/maintain/verify that information, it's a fan service. We can very well have things wrong. What you can, and should do, is use the wiki search function to locate any GM posts on the subject. These can be used to pull up the actual posts on the forums, since they will have topic and post numbers, etc.

>Simutronics has created a nice little bundle that grants not only the players zero liability, but their staff as well. They have created rules that are gray and loosely based, forums that cannot be searched, and will use outside sources when it fits their needs but will deny information provided from outside sources when it's brought to their attention.

You seem to be building a conspiracy theory here. Occam's razor says the simplest theory is likely the best one. In this case, you're dealing with a full volunteer staff with slipshod training, no oversite or continuing education style training, an individualized view of each scenario, and otherwise, a billion different moving parts. Half the time the GM you get ahold of is going to have to pass issues upstairs to someone else anyway, which you may not even be aware of. The forums, for example, weren't 'built so they could not be searched' they're legacy, and Simu wants to upgrade, but says it's a daunting task due to how their systems work, since they're antiquated.

Honestly, this entire post smells of 'I didn't get my way in the previous discussion that was killed so I'm going to claim there's a global conspiracy and Simu is a bad company etc. etc. etc.' Grapes so sour they turned to vinegar on the vine, and I wait with baited breath your reply.

>>allowing more integration with the game.

This is interesting - I could imagine typing help xyz and a link popping up to the appropriate epedia page.

Codiax.
Vote: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

<<This exists in at least one place, but I'm damned if I can remember where. I was so proud when I saw it.

It was the intro to Dragonrealms 3.0 that popped on your screen after logging in the first time.

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Greetings! You have been updated as part of a major revision to the game. Some skills have combined with others, others have changed their name, and new skills have been introduced. Additionally, fundamental changes have been made to the magic system, which has caused many spells to change in name, effect, or difficulty. As such, all spells are now on global preview, and can be cast without learning the spell from your guildleader. You can read about these changes if you check NEWS 1 15.

You may have lost or gained some TDPs in this conversion. If you would like, you can choose to refund your stats back to your racial minimums, and re-train them at your leisure. To do this, you can use the RESPEC STAT verb.

Finally, you may notice that some of your skills have increased. This is because all of your skills have been increased to meet the new circle requirements for your level. Enjoy the free ranks!

To read more about these changes, you can visit http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/DragonRealms_3.0 and browse a more detailed summary.

You may also notice a small gift on your person to commemorate having survived the transition. Have a great time!

Nikpack