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Ok, I started asking this in a different folder since it had to do with the topic, but I was wondering what the difference between logging off to prevent yourself from dying (read combat logging) and logging off after you die to prevent your memories from being lost was. Technically, I would view it as mechanics abuse. If you die, you should face the consequences, whether it is departing and losing some memories or having to wait for someone to come by. I have never logged off dead to wait for someone, I either wait or just depart. I don't think this is in the policy, but I think it should be looked at the same way as combat logging. Any feedback would be appreciated as to why it shouldn't be.
--Raydell et al.
"Well folks, you know what that means... now I'll do a dance."
P.S. Someone said something about ISPs going down, and that is technically the same as for combat logging. If it happens, there is a way to know the difference between that and typing "exit".
Don't know if this will help you, but a couple of years back I recall it was GM-Samcras that first told me it was a good idea to log out and then back in upon death anyway. In that way your character and items are saved and a bit more secure should the game crash.
I've heard other GMs mention that they understand that people die at the most inconvenient times--that is, five minutes before having to leave for work or there are only 3 'live' people on an island at 3 a.m. and none of them are clerics. Likewise, stacks of dead bodies become tiresome to deal with after an invasion and dead people's view of what was 'perhaps' fun ranges from 'gad, when is anyone ever going to get around to me' to 'I think I'll log in my cleric to help out' to 'I need a break from this chuckle-headed game before I toss my monitor across the room.'
For those reasons, I suspect that 'icing down a deader' is ignored as 1) People typically don't die often, 2) By logging to preserve mems, the player is DECREASING the experience possible to clerical sorts so there is a counterbalance to this 'abuse,' and finally 3) quite simply, being dead is NOT fun, losing exp is NOT fun, laying around waiting for someone to trip over you is NOT fun, nor is disrupting a cleric's hunting/socializine because he/she's got to labor over you for the better part of an hour because you decided to lay about for hours. (You shouldn't make a habit of ticking off people who are helping you typically for free.)
Even if they were to put in stops/punishments, they'd then have to deal with deaders who were were wrongly "auto-punished" because their ISP is flakey that day (and likely the reason why they died). For instance, 4 or my last 5-6 deaths were ISP related...so I'm involuntarily ghosting and dead as a result, I get involuntarily logged, and THEN I get a warning that I abused the system? Heh, I don't think so, not if they expect me to keep paying money.
So what if they can tell when someone 'exits' vs disconnects...all the abuser has to do is simply crash his computer to make it look like a ghosting. Can't win...so this current position is the least likely to need GM intervention and keeps some customer's aggrivation levels to a dull roar.
Okay, so now we come to another issue...people who log off until a pallie can glyph. Okay, does DR let the vultures gather and steal all his over $300 US (on the black market that 'shouldn't exist') items? Or does DR be merciful and let him/her log until that near one of a kind item is relatively secure? I suppose that answer depends upon whether you're the vulture or the one lying there helpless. These actions by other players do NOT cause me direct harm. So frankly, I'm inclined to look the other way and move on, it's just a game.
When you die, at a minimum, you've already lost all the experience in your pools...so there is already 'some' punishment. Combat logging has no such penalty and, hence, there's a need to maintain the artificial ones.
Shendorian
I've heard other GMs mention that they understand that people die at the most inconvenient times--that is, five minutes before having to leave for work or there are only 3 'live' people on an island at 3 a.m. and none of them are clerics. Likewise, stacks of dead bodies become tiresome to deal with after an invasion and dead people's view of what was 'perhaps' fun ranges from 'gad, when is anyone ever going to get around to me' to 'I think I'll log in my cleric to help out' to 'I need a break from this chuckle-headed game before I toss my monitor across the room.'
For those reasons, I suspect that 'icing down a deader' is ignored as 1) People typically don't die often, 2) By logging to preserve mems, the player is DECREASING the experience possible to clerical sorts so there is a counterbalance to this 'abuse,' and finally 3) quite simply, being dead is NOT fun, losing exp is NOT fun, laying around waiting for someone to trip over you is NOT fun, nor is disrupting a cleric's hunting/socializine because he/she's got to labor over you for the better part of an hour because you decided to lay about for hours. (You shouldn't make a habit of ticking off people who are helping you typically for free.)
Even if they were to put in stops/punishments, they'd then have to deal with deaders who were were wrongly "auto-punished" because their ISP is flakey that day (and likely the reason why they died). For instance, 4 or my last 5-6 deaths were ISP related...so I'm involuntarily ghosting and dead as a result, I get involuntarily logged, and THEN I get a warning that I abused the system? Heh, I don't think so, not if they expect me to keep paying money.
So what if they can tell when someone 'exits' vs disconnects...all the abuser has to do is simply crash his computer to make it look like a ghosting. Can't win...so this current position is the least likely to need GM intervention and keeps some customer's aggrivation levels to a dull roar.
Okay, so now we come to another issue...people who log off until a pallie can glyph. Okay, does DR let the vultures gather and steal all his over $300 US (on the black market that 'shouldn't exist') items? Or does DR be merciful and let him/her log until that near one of a kind item is relatively secure? I suppose that answer depends upon whether you're the vulture or the one lying there helpless. These actions by other players do NOT cause me direct harm. So frankly, I'm inclined to look the other way and move on, it's just a game.
When you die, at a minimum, you've already lost all the experience in your pools...so there is already 'some' punishment. Combat logging has no such penalty and, hence, there's a need to maintain the artificial ones.
Shendorian
On top of what Shendorian said (well put, BTW), if said deader has the goal of accumulating skills, then time spent dead is time spent NOT accumulating those skills, which is in itself an additional punishment for being dead.
Whether they spend that time lying on the floor waiting for help or logged out waiting for help to be more nearby, end result is the same.
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
Whether they spend that time lying on the floor waiting for help or logged out waiting for help to be more nearby, end result is the same.
~~~Krin
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Goblins ... aisle 6, Mycthengelde ... hunt smart, hunt S-Mart!"
"You whine like a mule ... you are still alive!"
That makes sense I suppose. Losing the experience in your pool isn't much, for the most part, but I guess it is a small punishment. I just felt that maybe if you log off (by typing quit, mind you, not being disconnected) you should only be able to gain so much of your skill back because if you are dumb enough to die in the middle of nowhere, and you decide to wait, there should be more of a punishment instead of just logging off for a month, playing another character or IMing someone so you don't lose anything... but if the GMs say it is a good idea, than I guess this point is also moot. Thanks for the feedback.
--Raydell et al.
"Well folks, you know what that means... now I'll do a dance."
--Raydell et al.
"Well folks, you know what that means... now I'll do a dance."
<<<if the GMs say it is a good idea>>>
The only thing I said about any GM saying "good idea" (re: death logging) was Samcras' log out and immediately come back in. It forces the game to backup you and your items should there be some anomaly that Feedback needs to resolve (it DOES HAPPEN, I personally know this to be true).
The rest of my comments were based on the culmination of things I've heard or read concerning the issue over the years. I think GMs would LOVE to see you RP out death as much as possible, but they are resigned to the fact that there's just too many RL and IG considerations to make and enforce a blanket policy that wouldn't mess somebody over at some point.
Shendorian
The only thing I said about any GM saying "good idea" (re: death logging) was Samcras' log out and immediately come back in. It forces the game to backup you and your items should there be some anomaly that Feedback needs to resolve (it DOES HAPPEN, I personally know this to be true).
The rest of my comments were based on the culmination of things I've heard or read concerning the issue over the years. I think GMs would LOVE to see you RP out death as much as possible, but they are resigned to the fact that there's just too many RL and IG considerations to make and enforce a blanket policy that wouldn't mess somebody over at some point.
Shendorian
