So I've been doing Hard work orders to train Mech Lore, which I assume will also train Forging at the same rate after the Mech Lore split. I have two main complaints:

One, it takes forrrrrrever to mindlock. I just timed it, it took me 44 minutes to go from 0/34 clear to 34/34 mindlock, NOT counting the time to travel back to town get tools from the bank, repair tools, ask for work orders, turn in work orders, or go buy accessory items for assembling. That's 44 minutes of pure crafting roundtimes. Also, that's using a glaes hammer and shovel (best possible for speed) and pre-nerf lumium tongs (better than the best currently possible). That just seems really excessive to train one single skill, which requires traveling to a specific spot to train. I can mindlock 15+ skills in combat in the same time span. I understand one has risk and one doesn't, but that just doesn't seem remotely balanced.

Second, why do weaponsmithing and armorsmithing get techniques for -20% roundtimes but blacksmithing doesn't? I was actually considering putting a hobby into making tools after the mech lore split, but really I'd be better off putting the hobby into weaponsmithing and doing weaponsmithing work orders since a +20% learning bonus is incredible (and there are very few useful blacksmithing techniques as it is). Maybe Point #1 wouldn't be so bad if Blacksmithing had the same -20% RT technique as ther other forging crafts, but even 36 minutes for one skill is really high when you consider all the additional time sinks that accompany forging (like travel, repair, getting ingots, etc)

So I guess at the very LEAST, can we get a Blacksmithing Acumen technique to make things at least remotely fair? In an ideal world you might also bump up the experience at very high ranks (or maybe all ranks), but I could understand waiting for the Mech Lore split to do a full pass at balancing exp across all crafting skills. Balancing out the techniques would be a decent start though

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

>>I tend to do a lot better learning with silver/gold than I do bronze.

Hm well I've actually used pure bronze, pure silver, or 67%bronze/33%silver, depending on what I happen to have on me at the moment. I've never noticed a difference, but I will pay closer attention next time and post results if anything changes. The test I mentioned above was with 67%bronze/33%silver

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

>>I'd love a way to learn it quickly, reasonably simply, but with little cost.

They actually have done a great job with the Cost aspect (which is the hardest part to do imo). You actually make money while crafting if you do work orders

The low experience isn't all that hard to fix, it just needs to be multiplied by X (where it isn't trivial to figure out a fair value for X, but it doesn't require designing anything new, just bumping the current exp)

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

You motivated me to time myself. Using a silver/gold/bronze mix (50 workability), it took me 60 minutes to get from 0/34 to 30/34. This was total time, not just counting roundtimes.

>>So I tried with pure silver (which are still masterfully-crafted), and this time it took 52 minutes instead of 44 (12 items instead of 10).

It's possible that exp on the high end just needs tweaking, but it's my understanding that the harder the workability, the more exp it gives when you successfully craft things.

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"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2

>>Really? Because I remember being surprised when Kodius mentioned that it wasn't that way. Although he said he was considering adding that, so maybe he has.

Yeah my vague recollection was that Kodius said workability did NOT impact learning (unless it changes whether you are capable of making masterfully crafted). Pretty sure there was a post that clarified it, although I'm fuzzy on what the statement was

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

>>What difficulty items are you making?

Thin Sewing Needles - Very Difficult

It is right on the edge of my ability, cannot make them masterfully if I don't have the technique, or if I use anything with workability below 40. In the tests above I was using metals that I can get masterfully-crafted items though (either bronze at 70 or silver at 50)

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

>>Thin Sewing Needles - Very Difficult

Ok, that makes sense....From what I remember of your mech ranks, I bet you are close to being able to do the extremely difficult items with bronze or lead?

Try to make an extremely difficult (if there is any?) item with lead and see how you fair?

I'm still learning well with difficult items, but I am tert. It takes me about 20 minutes to lock, but again that is tert.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

I will review crafting exp after leather armor is released.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

the only complaint I have re: carving <which is at present only stone-carving>, is the lack of monetary reward when you compare workorders done for carving vs. those done for blacksmithing/armorsmithing or weaponsmithing.

I think a solution to this could be done by making certain <more rare stones> <mined only, not the ones you can purchase in the crafting halls>, a bit more valuable, thus if you carve stuff and turn it in for workorders, it would then yield more coin.



"we're doing it for the good of mankind," said the philosophers of murder, waiting for the rest of the world to congratulate them"-Elie Wiesel <the gates of the forest>

>>We need some rare stone materials, please. Darkstone is metal.

I'm not entirely sure how this will benefit stone carving until artistry or enchanting is released.

_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

>>I'm not entirely sure how this will benefit stone carving until artistry or enchanting is released.

Niniam, electrum, and animite are metals too. What niche is there, exactly, for stonecarving in regards to weapons? Everyone's gonna have limestone weapons? You could just alloy steel with animite, or something.

>>Think he's saying he wants something harder to find vis-à-vis kertig/glaes/damite. There is after all the tyrium parallel in diamondique.

Anything at all, even something on the level of lumium or platinum.

Yea I think the problem is with Lore primary only. With the same low 400s mech I can lock it in 20-30 minutes as Lore secondary and blacksmithing as a hobby.

>>Niniam, electrum, and animite are metals too. What niche is there, exactly, for stonecarving in regards to weapons? Everyone's gonna have limestone weapons? You could just alloy steel with animite, or something.

Even if they did put in rare stones, you have to remember the issue with mining for rocks. If you suddenly got rare pebble or small rock sized portions of rare stone what exactly would you do with them?

So we are at a situation where a rare block of stone will not be viable until other systems are released.

_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

>>Even if they did put in rare stones, you have to remember the issue with mining for rocks. If you suddenly got rare pebble or small rock sized portions of rare stone what exactly would you do with them?

Stone weapons, stone ammo, slickstones, and stirring rods are all used here and today. I'd love some better sling ammo.

Your argument also doesn't take into account the rare metals I just named that also exist but have no use until enchanting. Why no love for carving?

>>If superstone drops in tiny amounts, those amounts are pretty much useless.

Not necessarily. The best current use for something with really high hardness would be sling ammo, which doesn't require a very big rock as far as I remember

Apu
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http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu

Alcheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemy!

<<Unless you have Apu levels of mech, you'll do fine.>>

Only if we define Apu levels of mech as between 100-1200. Doing hard work orders costs me over an hour and I'm hardly a master craftsman.