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ReplyNot sure if this has been addressed but will Barbarians NOT be able to enchant or learn enchanting since enchanting seems like the textbook definition of 'performing magic'. If not, will a balancer be added, perhaps a Barb only ability to craft 'legendary' weapons (above that of mastercrafted)?
As an aside, it would be hilarious to see a Barbarian trying to enchant only to see that his MR has warded every attempt.
NMUs will be able to access enchanting, yes.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
No, BMR has ceased to be innate and is wrapped up into inner fire warding etc. etc. MR still exists for us in these forms.
But, for a Barbarian to enchant an item is like water spontaneously catching on fire; Barbarians can't stand to use magic or magic items but to directly create magic items would just be silly to the point of immersion breaking. It would be the slippery slide of "well we can start breaking guild concepts for the sake of additional systems,more powah!, and additional progression." Yes, I can see some systems having grey areas where one can "fudge it" to overlook somethings that don't entirely jive(it's a video game after all) but this is NOT one of those cases, it's just blatant non-sensical/crazy.
Barbarians will enchant Barbarian things in to it. Simple. THEY WILL RAGE UNTIL THE STEEL BENDS TO THEIR WILL AND HOLDS THEIR ANGER TO BE UNLEASHED UPON THEIR FOE IN A DISPLAY OF WRATH SO TERRIBLE IT WILL BE AS IF THE WORLD DRAGON HAD AWOKEN! Or such. :3
"I, for one, think it's nice to have new folks who are excited and already care enough about the game to offer suggestions. We need more of that." -Solomon
Thanks for being in my corner Solomon, come back soon.
>>Barbarians can't stand to use magic or magic items
Debatable. The question of what "counts" as a magic item is also rather flexible. For example, Barbarians are fine using blessed weapons, gweths, etc.
>>but to directly create magic items would just be silly to the point of immersion breaking
Also debatable. You also won't have to use enchanting if you feel it goes against your character.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Debatable. The question of what "counts" as a magic item is also rather flexible. For example, Barbarians are fine using blessed weapons, gweths, etc.
>>but to directly create magic items would just be silly to the point of immersion breaking
Also debatable. You also won't have to use enchanting if you feel it goes against your character.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>>> SUMMERSON: Yes, I can see some systems having grey areas where one can "fudge it" to overlook somethings that don't entirely jive(it's a video game after all) but this is NOT one of those cases, it's just blatant non-sensical/crazy.
>>>> SUMMERSON: If not, will a balancer be added, perhaps a Barb only ability to craft 'legendary' weapons (above that of master crafted)?
strangely enough you first post explains why the decision was made to fudge it.
A Barbarian will have to learn Aracana to be able to Enchant. There will be repercussions from guild for learning Arcana (probably not mechanical ones). It will be the player's choice whether they go against to guild to enchant or not. At least that's how it's been explained in the past.
::SIGH:: So, this hate of magic (one of the cornerstones of the Barbarian guild) is pretty much over then. With enchanting release, Barbarians will smash their way out of the closet and say "we loved magic all along!".
There really is no debate with Barbarians and the use of magic, the creation of a permanent magical item is like 10x worse then casting a simple fireball. There's no way to justify it. In terms of RP, all my characters are fresh, thus there's ample time for me to alter the trajectory of my Barbarian's attitudes toward magic.
But frankly guys, the way some of you are talking about this, it seems like a "don't spoil this for me! I need my powah grab!" kinda thing and not really focused on the lore aspect, especially so, since this deals with a theme for an entire guild.
Anyhow, the only reason why I'm not going completely batty is because Kodius is also the Barbarian advocate as well. So, I trust him to make the pieces fit. Cool system and concept though outside of the Barbarian complications.
>>::SIGH:: So, this hate of magic (one of the cornerstones of the Barbarian guild) is pretty much over then. With enchanting release, Barbarians will smash their way out of the closet and say "we loved magic all along!".
No one is forcing Barbarians to enchant or use enchanted items. AFAIK, they're also not going to be penalized for using them as much as have some Barbarian NPCs regard them differently when talking about things.
In other words, the lore is still there like it's always been.
That said, I also don't believe that Barbarians will get something "else" to make up for the fact that they're not thematically matched up to that craft.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
No one is forcing Barbarians to enchant or use enchanted items. AFAIK, they're also not going to be penalized for using them as much as have some Barbarian NPCs regard them differently when talking about things.
In other words, the lore is still there like it's always been.
That said, I also don't believe that Barbarians will get something "else" to make up for the fact that they're not thematically matched up to that craft.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
<<::SIGH:: So, this hate of magic (one of the cornerstones of the Barbarian guild) is pretty much over then. With enchanting release, Barbarians will smash their way out of the closet and say "we loved magic all along!".
The actual situation is not quite so dramatic as that.
Enchanting proper will require the use of Imbue which is a spell, so Barbarians are not going to be making magic wands or flaming swords of doom. There is room, however, for guild only enchanting which might include barbarian and/or thief specific stuff using sigils that only those guilds can gather. E.g. things like roar helms, or shark teeth.
Barbarians will also be able to use enchanted items with Arcana skill acting as a gate to how much they can and are willing to access. Some items will require active use of mana (e.g. runestones), others will require activation with some magical knowledge via the Arcana skill (e.g. how old CJs used to work), and still others will not require any skill on the part of the user to activate or use (e.g. a flaming sword that is always on). Barbarians will never be able to use the former, will always be able to use the latter, and may or may not be able to use the middle option depending on how magic averse they choose to be.
The actual situation is not quite so dramatic as that.
Enchanting proper will require the use of Imbue which is a spell, so Barbarians are not going to be making magic wands or flaming swords of doom. There is room, however, for guild only enchanting which might include barbarian and/or thief specific stuff using sigils that only those guilds can gather. E.g. things like roar helms, or shark teeth.
Barbarians will also be able to use enchanted items with Arcana skill acting as a gate to how much they can and are willing to access. Some items will require active use of mana (e.g. runestones), others will require activation with some magical knowledge via the Arcana skill (e.g. how old CJs used to work), and still others will not require any skill on the part of the user to activate or use (e.g. a flaming sword that is always on). Barbarians will never be able to use the former, will always be able to use the latter, and may or may not be able to use the middle option depending on how magic averse they choose to be.
>>Enchanting proper will require the use of Imbue which is a spell, so Barbarians are not going to be making magic wands or flaming swords of doom.
IIRC, Imbue is basically the spell version of one of the tools that can be used in the enchanting process. So, if a flaming sword is something that can be made by a magic user, a non-magic user will also be able to create it as well. Only instead of "prep imbue/cast item" they'd "wave rod at item". Magic users could also use this tool if they don't want to learn Imbue for whatever reason.
>>There is room, however, for guild only enchanting which might include barbarian and/or thief specific stuff using sigils that only those guilds can gather. E.g. things like roar helms, or shark teeth.
This is theoretically correct for every guild in every craft. My understanding is that those won't come along until the "regular" items all come out.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IIRC, Imbue is basically the spell version of one of the tools that can be used in the enchanting process. So, if a flaming sword is something that can be made by a magic user, a non-magic user will also be able to create it as well. Only instead of "prep imbue/cast item" they'd "wave rod at item". Magic users could also use this tool if they don't want to learn Imbue for whatever reason.
>>There is room, however, for guild only enchanting which might include barbarian and/or thief specific stuff using sigils that only those guilds can gather. E.g. things like roar helms, or shark teeth.
This is theoretically correct for every guild in every craft. My understanding is that those won't come along until the "regular" items all come out.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
If the concern is that Barbarians cannot enchant due to some in-game physics related thing, that is not an issue.
If the concern is that Barbarians morally shouldn't enchant, I'd wager the morality train left the station a long time ago.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
If the concern is that Barbarians morally shouldn't enchant, I'd wager the morality train left the station a long time ago.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
>>::SIGH:: So, this hate of magic (one of the cornerstones of the Barbarian guild) is pretty much over then. With enchanting release, Barbarians will smash their way out of the closet and say "we loved magic all along!".
Nothing about the lore is changing. Barbs have always been able to learn Arcana (and other magic skills) with a penalty associated with them. The lore is staying the same, the mechanical penalties are being reduced to more RP/interaction with NPCs penalties, and choices are being opened for the players to make for themselves.
Play your Barb as a non-magic user and avoid all Enchanting items/creation like the plague if you want.
Nothing about the lore is changing. Barbs have always been able to learn Arcana (and other magic skills) with a penalty associated with them. The lore is staying the same, the mechanical penalties are being reduced to more RP/interaction with NPCs penalties, and choices are being opened for the players to make for themselves.
Play your Barb as a non-magic user and avoid all Enchanting items/creation like the plague if you want.
You guys know full well that you can't just "avoid enchanting like the plague" without crippling your character mechanically, this isn't just the loss of a few TDPs. The difference between being able to wield a flaming sword that can shoot fireballs and just a "regular" sword is night and day.
Listen, I have no idea what enchanting is going to look like nor do most of you(except Armifer obviously) but perhaps in lieu of "enchanting" you can have the same system (in terms of code) just changing the flavoring. So, perhaps instead of imbueing you can have scarring an item. With scarring you carve into armor or weapons symbols that enhance the wearer's inner fire,berserks, warding or physical stats. This is basically a change in a few lines of messaging and addition/subtraction to a couple of variables.
>Listen, I have no idea what enchanting is going to look like nor do most of you(except Armifer obviously)
If it helps, Kodius has spoken about it several times. I'm not going to try to find the posts on these forums, but the gist was a weapon will have worse physical stats so that is can have better magical ones, not that the weapon will have great physical ones stacks with great magical ones.
So to me it sounds like a parallel rather than conjoined system. You might choose to use a crappy stone sword because when you flame on it has good stats, and most people wear pure physical damage gear.
If it helps, Kodius has spoken about it several times. I'm not going to try to find the posts on these forums, but the gist was a weapon will have worse physical stats so that is can have better magical ones, not that the weapon will have great physical ones stacks with great magical ones.
So to me it sounds like a parallel rather than conjoined system. You might choose to use a crappy stone sword because when you flame on it has good stats, and most people wear pure physical damage gear.
And I also read by Kodius or Armifier, that new metals will be available which will have both great physical and enchantment potential properties. Apparently, this will push up the new highest power level of a weapon from tier 6 -> tier 7.
Again, if enchantment wasn't a flat out power increase they wouldn't be working on it as the demand won't be as hot regardless of how fancy the messaging night be. That's just how MMO's work.
>Again, if enchantment wasn't a flat out power increase they wouldn't be working on it as the demand won't be as hot regardless of how fancy the messaging night be. That's just how MMO's work.
Except, as has been noted by previous posters, current top-tier weapons aren't going to see much of a boost from enchanting. The balance has already been planned out by Kodius. It's not going to be the difference between night and day. Have a t6 sword of slashing doom? Enchanting it isn't going to do much. There will be new t6 weapons that, comparably, don't have great puncture/slice/impact, but balance it out by being capable of holding powerful enchantments.
If you don't want your tyrium sword enchanted, it'll still be arbitrary-power-level 20. An enchantment might make it level 21. Any weapon that could be enchanted to hold "blazing fireball and fire shards of pain" would start out at a level 16 -- the enchanting would bring it up to a 21.
>For some reason you just can't stop thinking about glarmencouplers.
Except, as has been noted by previous posters, current top-tier weapons aren't going to see much of a boost from enchanting. The balance has already been planned out by Kodius. It's not going to be the difference between night and day. Have a t6 sword of slashing doom? Enchanting it isn't going to do much. There will be new t6 weapons that, comparably, don't have great puncture/slice/impact, but balance it out by being capable of holding powerful enchantments.
If you don't want your tyrium sword enchanted, it'll still be arbitrary-power-level 20. An enchantment might make it level 21. Any weapon that could be enchanted to hold "blazing fireball and fire shards of pain" would start out at a level 16 -- the enchanting would bring it up to a 21.
>For some reason you just can't stop thinking about glarmencouplers.
> And I also read by Kodius or Armifier, that new metals will be available which will have both great physical and enchantment potential properties. Apparently, this will push up the new highest power level of a weapon from tier 6 -> tier 7.
I think Kodius (who also is pretty much in charge of the barbarian guild) is going to try to make sure that even with Tier 7 things work out balanced for Barbarians and their non-magic lore and enchanting. Instead of freaking out about the potential possibilities of future things (what are you a moon mage?), how about we all wait until things get announced and then provide feedback?
I think Kodius (who also is pretty much in charge of the barbarian guild) is going to try to make sure that even with Tier 7 things work out balanced for Barbarians and their non-magic lore and enchanting. Instead of freaking out about the potential possibilities of future things (what are you a moon mage?), how about we all wait until things get announced and then provide feedback?
>>You guys know full well that you can't just "avoid enchanting like the plague" without crippling your character mechanically, this isn't just the loss of a few TDPs. The difference between being able to wield a flaming sword that can shoot fireballs and just a "regular" sword is night and day.
You won't be crippled because of a personal decision to not get and use a flaming sword of doom.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
You won't be crippled because of a personal decision to not get and use a flaming sword of doom.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>> The difference between being able to wield a flaming sword that can shoot fireballs and just a "regular" sword is night and day.
How is wielding that flame sword of doom any different than using a mirror weapon? Or any other weapon that has some type of extra "enchantment" on it (inner fire weapons?)?
AFAIK there has never been any problem with them using magical weapons as much as them using magical devices that have a spell, or something similar, in it.
>>Listen, I have no idea what enchanting is going to look like nor do most of you(except Armifer obviously) but perhaps in lieu of "enchanting" you can have the same system (in terms of code) just changing the flavoring. So, perhaps instead of imbueing you can have scarring an item. With scarring you carve into armor or weapons symbols that enhance the wearer's inner fire,berserks, warding or physical stats. This is basically a change in a few lines of messaging and addition/subtraction to a couple of variables.
Is your problem with Barbarians creating enchantments? Or using them? Or both?
If it's in the creation of them, then Kodius has said he's going to put lore/mechanics in place to keep it within the lore.
If it's with using those enchantments, then Barbs have always been able to do this. CJs back in 2.0, and the ability to use any auction/quest weapon with magical enchantments on them since the beginning of the game. Also, Barbs can use gweths and gwethsmashers.
I really don't understand what the problem is. Nothing is changing other than Barbs now have a choice to be different to create some magical stuff at a cost that is to be determined. It's really no different than Paladin's being able to steal and use stealth in combat. They can do it, but it has consequences.
How is wielding that flame sword of doom any different than using a mirror weapon? Or any other weapon that has some type of extra "enchantment" on it (inner fire weapons?)?
AFAIK there has never been any problem with them using magical weapons as much as them using magical devices that have a spell, or something similar, in it.
>>Listen, I have no idea what enchanting is going to look like nor do most of you(except Armifer obviously) but perhaps in lieu of "enchanting" you can have the same system (in terms of code) just changing the flavoring. So, perhaps instead of imbueing you can have scarring an item. With scarring you carve into armor or weapons symbols that enhance the wearer's inner fire,berserks, warding or physical stats. This is basically a change in a few lines of messaging and addition/subtraction to a couple of variables.
Is your problem with Barbarians creating enchantments? Or using them? Or both?
If it's in the creation of them, then Kodius has said he's going to put lore/mechanics in place to keep it within the lore.
If it's with using those enchantments, then Barbs have always been able to do this. CJs back in 2.0, and the ability to use any auction/quest weapon with magical enchantments on them since the beginning of the game. Also, Barbs can use gweths and gwethsmashers.
I really don't understand what the problem is. Nothing is changing other than Barbs now have a choice to be different to create some magical stuff at a cost that is to be determined. It's really no different than Paladin's being able to steal and use stealth in combat. They can do it, but it has consequences.
>And I also read by Kodius or Armifier, that new metals will be available which will have both great physical and enchantment potential properties. Apparently, this will push up the new highest power level of a weapon from tier 6 -> tier 7.
>[Citation needed].
I'll help them out. http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/Enchanting%20Skill/view/1951
>[Citation needed].
I'll help them out. http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/Enchanting%20Skill/view/1951
A personal decision?
Umm... as per the Elanthipedia description and Agonar's:
The Barbarian's life is a simple one, but not an easy one. Live with us, and steel your mind against the taint of Magic's aid. Die with us, and drive your body to a warrior's dogged end while those of lesser mettle cower at inglorious range!
Inner Fire is the measure both of rage and of control, and the substance of Barbarian heart and guts; in purity, it fuels the bloodlust of the battle-hardened and stills the mind of the meditator. But be wary - the taint of magic will disrupt this fragile balance of body and soul, so leave the mana-meddling to those who lean on magic as a crutch!
"Magic corrupts the inner fire. Do not succumb to paltry enchantments and wizardry, spellbound trinkets or mystical baubles...for should you covet these things, NewBarbGuy22, the blaze shall smoulder within your heart, and you shall be powerless on the battlefield."
If you were a BRAND NEW player and read these things, you would be like "Yeah! Die Mages! I will extinquish magic from the world! Cool! I'll play a Barbarian!" Only to be told as he progresses, "Yeah, sorry NewBarbGuy22 if you want to take on the most powerful of critters you're gonna need to work on magic Arcane lore and make yourself a magic enchanting wand, and use this magic enchanting wand to fortify all your weapons and armor with powerful magic to defend yourself!"
Sometime later...
>
[Barbarian Guild, A Makeshift Enchanting Workshop]
>
Also here: Magic Bane NewBarbGuy22
>
NewBarbGuy22 begins to chant a magical incantation of awesome power. Above him you can see an outline of the god Meraud smirking triumphantly as he says, "Say the words little savage and the boon shall be yours!"
>
NewBarbGuy22 recites, "I am but a silly savage who made the profound mistake of devoting myself to a life of ignorance and blind fury. I now know that I was wrong and beg of the god of magic to enchant this simple sword that I may go about my brutish and fruitless path."
>
The image of Meraud suddenly flares with glorious mana and laughs! "I am a generous god and your boon shall be granted!"
>
Suddenly a Tier7-Material-Vultite broadsword glows with magical fire!
>
NewBarbGuy22 sighs.
>
NewBarbGuy22 says, "I wish I never read that stupid wiki and became a Warmage instead."
>
NewBarbGuy22 leaves west.
>
Agonar comes out of hiding.
>
A tear runs down Agonar's face.
>
Agonar gets a dagger from his satchel.
>
Agonar says, "Well, we had a decent run as a guild."
>
Agonar plunges a dagger into his heart!
>
*Agonar was just struck down!
>>Summerson
LOL, of all the things wrong with the Barb guild right now I seriously doubt having limited enchanting opened up to them will be the end of the guild. You can also have weapons/items enchanted by someone else and use them yourself. Barbs will not have to participate in the enchanting process to benefit from enchanting.
Also, to touch on my previous reference of Paladins and stealth. Stealth is a huge boon in PvP, but you don't see any them running around in light armor with tanked souls so they can use it. I don't expect to see many (if any) Barbs taking penalties to be the best enchanters in the realms, especially as a Lore tert. Take a breath and calm down, your issues with this are being addressed.
LOL, of all the things wrong with the Barb guild right now I seriously doubt having limited enchanting opened up to them will be the end of the guild. You can also have weapons/items enchanted by someone else and use them yourself. Barbs will not have to participate in the enchanting process to benefit from enchanting.
Also, to touch on my previous reference of Paladins and stealth. Stealth is a huge boon in PvP, but you don't see any them running around in light armor with tanked souls so they can use it. I don't expect to see many (if any) Barbs taking penalties to be the best enchanters in the realms, especially as a Lore tert. Take a breath and calm down, your issues with this are being addressed.
>I'll help them out. http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/Lore/Enchanting%20Skill/view/1951
It's important to understand that when Kodius types, he's...precise.
>This will generally favor materials with weaker physical stats. It will also create a new Tier 7 set of materials with good physical and enchantable stats.
He didn't say 'great'. He said 'good'. To me (so, useless here) good in his quote implies less 'tyrium quality physicals are going to get coupled with capped enchanting' and probably 'some version of steel quality physicals' when combined with enchanting.
I'd fully expect physical properties + enchanted damage properties to exceed tier 6 pure physical alone properties (ergo the mention of tier 7), but either category alone would likely be lower than both combined.
Similar to how a sword might have 5/5/5 on damage while a mace might have 0/0/14.
It's important to understand that when Kodius types, he's...precise.
>This will generally favor materials with weaker physical stats. It will also create a new Tier 7 set of materials with good physical and enchantable stats.
He didn't say 'great'. He said 'good'. To me (so, useless here) good in his quote implies less 'tyrium quality physicals are going to get coupled with capped enchanting' and probably 'some version of steel quality physicals' when combined with enchanting.
I'd fully expect physical properties + enchanted damage properties to exceed tier 6 pure physical alone properties (ergo the mention of tier 7), but either category alone would likely be lower than both combined.
Similar to how a sword might have 5/5/5 on damage while a mace might have 0/0/14.
That's just syntax, the bottomline is that there WILL be the creation of a Tier 7 level of item power through the enchanting system, which basically is the difference between making something out of HCS and Kertig. It's done, finished, writings on the wall; you want to step up your character's game to the next level you best know how to enchant and use a enchanted weapon... else become irrelevant.
Yep. You might as well just retire your character and delete the account!
It's difficult to sincerely converse with you when you've been determined that enchanting will ruin the game for barbarians and won't examine the counter points. Your statements are just getting more and more silly.
How many T6 Katanas are in game right now? I'd expect T7 to be just as common.
It's difficult to sincerely converse with you when you've been determined that enchanting will ruin the game for barbarians and won't examine the counter points. Your statements are just getting more and more silly.
How many T6 Katanas are in game right now? I'd expect T7 to be just as common.
>>A personal decision?
>>The Barbarian's life is a simple one, but not an easy one. Live with us, and steel your mind against the taint of Magic's aid. Die with us, and drive your body to a warrior's dogged end while those of lesser mettle cower at inglorious range!
And the Empath guild says harming things is wrong, yet they can harm things if they choose.
Moon Mage guild says "Hey, please don't try to obliterate the Plane of Probability", yet they have a[n unsanctioned] spellbook essentially dedicated to just that.
So on.
>>"Yeah, sorry NewBarbGuy22 if you want to take on the most powerful of critters you're gonna need to work on magic Arcane lore and make yourself a magic enchanting wand, and use this magic enchanting wand to fortify all your weapons and armor with powerful magic to defend yourself!"
I think this is the problem you're facing. This claim is just patently incorrect.
>>It's done, finished, writings on the wall; you want to step up your character's game to the next level you best know how to enchant and use a enchanted weapon... else become irrelevant.
This is incorrect and goes against the general groundwork Kodius wanted to create with the system.
In all honesty, given how profoundly rare T6 materials are, T7 material isn't going to be something everyone has to get or else fall behind in the rat race, because they literally will not be able to get it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>>The Barbarian's life is a simple one, but not an easy one. Live with us, and steel your mind against the taint of Magic's aid. Die with us, and drive your body to a warrior's dogged end while those of lesser mettle cower at inglorious range!
And the Empath guild says harming things is wrong, yet they can harm things if they choose.
Moon Mage guild says "Hey, please don't try to obliterate the Plane of Probability", yet they have a[n unsanctioned] spellbook essentially dedicated to just that.
So on.
>>"Yeah, sorry NewBarbGuy22 if you want to take on the most powerful of critters you're gonna need to work on magic Arcane lore and make yourself a magic enchanting wand, and use this magic enchanting wand to fortify all your weapons and armor with powerful magic to defend yourself!"
I think this is the problem you're facing. This claim is just patently incorrect.
>>It's done, finished, writings on the wall; you want to step up your character's game to the next level you best know how to enchant and use a enchanted weapon... else become irrelevant.
This is incorrect and goes against the general groundwork Kodius wanted to create with the system.
In all honesty, given how profoundly rare T6 materials are, T7 material isn't going to be something everyone has to get or else fall behind in the rat race, because they literally will not be able to get it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
OK fine, fair enough. Let's wait and see what rolls out. But, mark my words, the Barb outcry will be loud and deafening when they all realize they've been indirectly nerfed into the ground. Oh I know what you're going to say , "this guy is so silly.. everythings gonna work out just fine!" Believe me after 15+ years of MMOing I've seen this exact same scenario happen time and time again; some new major system displacing pre-existing systems or entire classes/guilds. It's actually more common then not, but I guess time will tell.
You know, even if magic/enchanting was going to be the only way to access a particular extremely rare uber weapon of doom, sometimes our personal roleplay requires we make sacrifices or do things that are inconvenient to us or make our characters less powerful. This is a feature, not a bug. If you aren't willing to do that then maybe your roleplay wasn't actually all that important to you?
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
>But, mark my words, the Barb outcry will be loud and deafening when they all realize they've been indirectly nerfed into the ground.
Maybe I've missed it. But I haven't seen anything that says I'll need to be an enchanter to use an enchanted item. Same as I don't have any ranks in forging but make fine use of my steel weapons.
I find it doubtful there's going to be some passive toggle that teaches arcana and enchanting constantly in combat. I had assumed it would simply be a deterioration while in effect, like a charges based (ugh) system, where you need an NPC to fix it periodically. Similar to how not-enchanted-weapons work now. I really, really, hope it doesn't require other players for use, since that makes it completely unusable for me.
Maybe I've missed it. But I haven't seen anything that says I'll need to be an enchanter to use an enchanted item. Same as I don't have any ranks in forging but make fine use of my steel weapons.
I find it doubtful there's going to be some passive toggle that teaches arcana and enchanting constantly in combat. I had assumed it would simply be a deterioration while in effect, like a charges based (ugh) system, where you need an NPC to fix it periodically. Similar to how not-enchanted-weapons work now. I really, really, hope it doesn't require other players for use, since that makes it completely unusable for me.
On the in-game logic of Barbarians enchanting, I'd equate it to forging. We very well might say that forging is unrealistic and impossible for humans because they can't punch metal that hard and the forge fires would burn them. And we'd be correct, if we were talking about an innate quality of humanity and not the product of a tool-using society.
The idea is that MUs can shortcut the process somewhat by using/learning Imbue, but that by and large the mojo is going on in the tool-use itself. At that point, it's no less "realistic" for a Barbarian to do it than it is for a Barbarian to do embroidery.
The case can be made that a Barbarian shouldn't do it by some ideal of Barbarianess, but that's a RP consideration for Barbarians to navigate (or not).
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
The idea is that MUs can shortcut the process somewhat by using/learning Imbue, but that by and large the mojo is going on in the tool-use itself. At that point, it's no less "realistic" for a Barbarian to do it than it is for a Barbarian to do embroidery.
The case can be made that a Barbarian shouldn't do it by some ideal of Barbarianess, but that's a RP consideration for Barbarians to navigate (or not).
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Again, how is this personal roleplay?! This hate for magic is at the core of why even our Barbarian powers exist! So, you're going to sit there as a Barb creating the most powerful magical artifact in the world as you have the title "Magic Bane" up? I mean talk about suspension of disbelief, at some point you gotta say, "yeah.. that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever." Why not throw in AK-47's into the game? No? Why not? I like it. Please, put your "personal roleplay" away! It's inconvenient!
Does your character wear gwethdesuans?
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
>>So, you're going to sit there as a Barb creating the most powerful magical artifact in the world as you have the title "Magic Bane" up?
So someone is going to court cognitive dissonance for sheer material profit?
Yes, probably. You are free to judge them as you see fit.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
So someone is going to court cognitive dissonance for sheer material profit?
Yes, probably. You are free to judge them as you see fit.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I equate Barbarian Magic Resistance, Inner fire, and our other abilities to the fact that we are not as exposed to the unnatural "radiation" of magic. How our aversion to magic exists for our inner fire to be strong is the same as a paladin not stealing or backstabbing in order to fuel his soul state.
The point is this: Paladins have a built-in mechanic to "express" what their class' "roleplay" mandates. If their soul state becomes blemished they lose access to their spells etc. etc. This mechanic also exists for Barbarians; try concentrating on a runestone, the game basically tells you "no you can't, you're a barb silly!" This is fine because magical devices are relatively rare and don't really involve combat (the primary jurisidiction of Barbarians).
However, this will all change with enchanting. With enchanting everything will become flipped upside down. Now flame swords and armor that blinds people and other magical devices will exist everywhere. Now this aversion to magic becomes (or can become) a very real issue. But if the GMs deem that no mechanical disadvantage what-so-ever will occur for a Barbarian using magical devices or creating them, then sure, mechanically the game is balanced. If, however, the GMs were to follow the founding concept (as stated in official SIMU documentation) then some form of "Barbarian soul state" will need to be created for magic item use/creation.
At the very least, if we're going down path #1 (Barbs just like everybody else) then please remove the lines about magic ruining our inner fire as this can seriously throw off newbie barbs on how to mechanically approach the class. Also, maybe Agonar should put a caveat in his intro speech ,"Only under extreme circumstances should magic be used!" or something to that affect.
Barbs get special abilities that only they can use, and special items only they can use = cool.
Everyone gets the ability to enchant and use magic items (at the expense of physical stats in terms of weapons) = "nerfing Barbs INTO THE GROUND."
Awesome hyperbole. You should have been a Warrior Mage ;).
Everyone gets the ability to enchant and use magic items (at the expense of physical stats in terms of weapons) = "nerfing Barbs INTO THE GROUND."
Awesome hyperbole. You should have been a Warrior Mage ;).
SUMMERSON,
I think it's possible my post got missed in the shuffle with Armifer posting and all so just in case:
>> Does your character wear gwethdesuans?
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
I think it's possible my post got missed in the shuffle with Armifer posting and all so just in case:
>> Does your character wear gwethdesuans?
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
