My box of long poles now weighs 2600 stones and is vaulted. The entire weight logic of these containers needs to be scrapped for the sake of usability.

Would it just be possible for the stackers to assign their own weight based on contents?

I.E. A pole would weight (made up numbers) 5 stones, but a pole stacker would just weigh 2 * [# of poles inside] +1 stones

Makes no logical sense, but you'd only have to change how the stackers calculate weight and the poles and stores could remain the same. At the very least, it could be a stopgap fix until someone has time to do the heavy lifting.

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Weapons for Sale:
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
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<Folks may not like that a large pile of cloth padding weighs as much as a large pile of cloth padding should weigh, but that is how it always was before these stackers came into being. >

So I fully understand this - The large cloth padding has always weighed 20 stones and will always weigh 20 stones. Ok fine, if it can't be changed, so be it. But at least fix the stackers, or as quest prizes they are not really functional at the new unintentional weight.

<Having stackers remove item weight makes player-made versions of these items completely useless and penalized.>

I don't think anyone is asking for the item weight to be removed entirely. The full large cloth padding roll, as is, from fest when you first get it weighs 421 stones (I have an extra untouched in my vault). It contains 50 large cloth paddings identical to what we buy at the store or we wouldn't be able to refill it. Yet, when we refill it the weight more than doubles (previous post, 37 large pads weighs 818 stones, a full one now (50 large pads) weighs 1070 stones (more than the aggregate of 50 pads and the 20 stone empty weight of the roll itself).

<The simplest solution for now may be to limit stackers to 1000 stones of weight. This is similar to what stacks of ammunition do.>

So 20 stone large padding x 50 pads = 1000 stones...where is the stacker weight savings?

I sampled ammo I had easy access to:

You count some turquoise arrows in your hand and see there are 30 left.
You are certain that the turquoise arrows weighs exactly 26 stones.

You take a turquoise arrow from a bundle of arrows.
You are certain that the turquoise arrow weighs exactly 2 stones.
2 x 30 = 60 stones (net 26 stones or 43% reduction)

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You count some steel-tipped pulzones in your hand and see there are 72 left.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pulzones weighs exactly 46 stones.

You take a steel-tipped pulzone from a bundle of pulzones.
You are certain that the steel-tipped pulzone weighs exactly 2 stones.
2 x 72 = 144 stones (net weight 46 stones or a 32% reduction)

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You count some quartzite stone shards in your hand and see there are 15 left.
You are certain that the stone shards weighs exactly 9 stones.

You take a quartzite stone shard from a bundle of shards.
You are certain that the stone shard weighs exactly 2 stones
2 x 15 = 30 stones (net 9 stones or a 30% reduction)

So if we can get them set back to fest weight when full (421 stones and corresponding weights for other stackers) I don't think anyone would have issues. We were not complaining until this broke with the new changes. Or even better, let them hold any large paddings (all the same type obviously) so we could optionally store ones we make in them. If we could refill them with padding we make I'd love it! A fine silk large cloth padding weighs 2 stones, but we don't even have that option (You get some large fine silk padding from inside your catapult basket. > Put my pad in my roll. You can't put that in there.) And yes this was tested with an empty large padding roll.

Merrila

<Are stackers meant to save weight?>

Previous Kodius post: "While fixing an unrelated bug, an unreleased change to Stacker weights was introduced."

Are you were using these items in game? The full large cloth padding stacker, from the quest, weighs 421 stones. They still do, so yes, to answer your question. This is true of some if not all (I don't have access to all) of the stackers from the quest.

<AFAIK ammo has been buggy since forever when it comes to weight. I wouldn't use them as an example of how things should be in this situation.>

Previous Kodius post: "The simplest solution for now may be to limit stackers to 1000 stones of weight. This is similar to what stacks of ammunition do."

Evidently, what you refer to as "buggy" is a currently acceptable method for reduction in weight of ammunition, and if he states ammunition as the example, and I can show relevance I'm going to use that example. But as you said, you wouldn't use it, that's fine. However, if you want to weigh in (no pun intended ^.~), please read all the posts so I don't have to re-post what the GM said.

Merrila

I'm not going to get into a tit for tat with you. I'll say this one more time than I'm done. The FULL roll, as is, from the quest weights 421 stones. So at some point, whether intentional or not, the weight of the 50 stacked large cloth paddings was reduced (similiar to ammo). I'm simply asking for consideration of either adjusting the total weight with pads in it back to quest weights, or even possibly allowing them to hold ones we make, which are 1/10th the weight of the store bought ones. If Kodius cannot do either of these, I'd like to hear it from him, not others that do not make those decisions. If he is not able to fix the stackers from the Barrier Quest then I'll go back to previous methods, but I did pay for multiple quests so I could get all of the ones I have, to make it much easier to control item count and weight, and not be tied to only 1 of 2 outfitting societies in the realms from which I have helped to provide cloth, leather and bone armor and shields to many folks.

Merrila

>>So at some point, whether intentional or not, the weight of the 50 stacked large cloth paddings was reduced (similiar to ammo).

From what I saw from the items when they first came out, the initial weight only factored in the container's weight, and didn't [properly] factor in the weight of the contents until things were added to it by the player (by taking out the item already inside and adding it back, or buying new ones and adding those, etc). And even then it just added the weight of those items, not the items already inside.

>>I'm simply asking for consideration of either adjusting the total weight with pads in it back to quest weights

But the starting weight was the bug.

>>or even possibly allowing them to hold ones we make

I think that's a bigger project, since they're set up differently. Would be cool, though.

>>GM Socharis said that the initial weights for the stackers was set wrong, but he wasn't going to change it since they'd eventually fix themselves through restocking. I don't have a post for this because it was said in person while he was fixing one of my stackers' bugs.

This is pretty similar to what I heard when pointing out the item's quirk, as well.

That said, it might be more useful/productive to instead focus less on the stackers factoring in weight, which seems here to stay (because it's not a bug), and more the weight of the individual items themselves. Maybe all these hafts and hilts and oils and paddings could weigh 1 or 2 stone each instead of notably higher. To me that seems a lot more reasonable/possible, and as far as I can tell the weight of them items as they are don't really have any impact on the items you create.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

It was not intended that craftingstackers negate item weight. Someone fixed that at some point but it was never released. It slipped out during an unrelated bug fix for stackers. I hope that clarifies the situation.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<It was not intended that craftingstackers negate item weight.>

>I don't see how my english is so horrible that folks keep inferring I'm asking for a zero weight item, I am not! I realize it has to weigh something.

Reducing weight below 20 stones per item is negating item weight.

>Just tell me nothing is going to be done to fix any of this and I'll be fine. I'll adjust fire and move on. Tell me that in the near future a 20 stone large padding will have it's weight lowered to a more reasonable weight in line with other stacking items and I'll be make due until that comes out. Tell me to shut up and I'll do that too. :p

20 stones is 2 pounds which seems fine for padding. 50 large paddings would then be 100 pounds, seems about right. Perhaps its the other items that lose weight on stacking that need to be brought in line. The benefit from the stacker isn't reducing weight, it's reducing item count and making it convenient to deal with having 50 of one item.

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Don't forget to vote:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

Personally considering in the real world, people would be able to set up storage areas, and quickly grab them from these areas and use as needed. I find a bit of the problem with most crafting is this idea we need all these items to do it, we need all these other items to get used up to do it.

I know crafting isn't required. But we are required to keep item count to a certain low. While we aren't so much as required to have low weight, it seems to help with everything to have low weight.

This has been something I've been thinking about in general with crafting, I like having crafts I like having the products of crafts.

I just think that since it is a game, with limits within the game, that a certain level of playability should be still allowed, and let realism fall a little to the wayside.

This isn't directed directly at cloth padding or stackable items.

Just that we seem to continually need more and more stuff while we have the same number of slots for items, the same inventory restrictions, the same need to keep weight down to a 'managable' level.

So whatever that can be done to help with that list, I would appreciate it.

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

>>Personally considering in the real world, people would be able to set up storage areas, and quickly grab them from these areas and use as needed.

Well we do.. it is called the crafting halls and these items are sold in bins much like you describe :P Stackers are not technically needed if you do your crafting in a hall and periodically purchase the ingredients you need.

Stackers are a convenience item for players that like to craft on the go or who live in areas without crafting halls.

I would also argue that an inventory crunch is endemic to most MMOs. FFXIV is a good example of a game with about 400 inventory slots and 50,000,000,000,000 things to place in them :sigh: Terra, STO, Secret World... the list goes on. Most MMOs seem to go out of their way to make inventory crunch a "thing". With DR that isn't a design decision it is just a limitation we have to contend with.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<Or even better, let them hold any large paddings (all the same type obviously) so we could optionally store ones we make in them. If we could refill them with padding we make I'd love it! A fine silk large cloth padding weighs 2 stones, but we don't even have that option (You get some large fine silk padding from inside your catapult basket. > Put my pad in my roll. You can't put that in there.) And yes this was tested with an empty large padding roll.>

I think more than anything, I would love this. Every time I tried combining my padding seems to just mush it back down into the original cloth. I really like using my odds-and-ends of cloth to create padding for future projects. Same thing goes for leather cord and shield handles.

- Anlise

Is it possible to, potentially, turn padding into some kind of ... combineable mass? Like catalyst? So you'd make some padding, and the outfitting would call for x length of padding from your padding roll?

Being able to church out a mass of padding might also make it appealing to actually make for other people.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

>Hopefully it won't be too long before we have stackers that intentionally reduce weight and containers that reduce the weight of the contents for both enchanting and as prize options.

So is this containers that drop weight as prize or enchanting, an already approved project, that just doesn't have the development hours to come to fruitation yet?

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"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Did I miss purchasing these stackers at the fest, or are they sold in regular stores?

>Quest incidentals from Beyond the Barrier

Shoot.

So about those additional societies...

He's in TF, so I don't think that option is available to him. I don't think TF runs very many quests, if at all.

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>>Yeah, I'd love to run some quests, especially with prizes, but the population is so small in TF that it isn't offered often.

If it matters any, Plat sometimes goes on BtB with 4-6 characters and we still beat in in around two hours now. Once you understand the tasks and learn where things are located the quest is a lot shorter.

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>Sorry for the delay on this. Had another 16 hour day and I'm beat<<

Rest and relax, that way you can work on the important stuff like Enchanting!
::flees::