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Seriously, mining is the most dangerous thing you can possibly do in DR. Why the hell is this? I'm up to half a dozen deaths now from mining where there was absolutely nothing I could do to prevent it. I'm just sitting there mining away minding my own business, and then out of nowhere I'm trapped and immobilized and I automatically die unless someone comes along and digs me out (lol yeah right like that would ever happen).
There is no skillcheck, no stat check, no way whatsoever to avoid it. How the hell does this make any sense? For the love of god can we please get rid of the asinine delay between when the room becomes dangerous and when the danger message occurs? Or maybe get rid of the automatic death caveins, either way
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>There is no skillcheck, no stat check, no way whatsoever to avoid it. How the hell does this make any sense? For the love of god can we please get rid of the asinine delay between when the room becomes dangerous and when the danger message occurs? Or maybe get rid of the automatic death caveins, either way
Unless, of course, you prospect danger after each mine. That's the the way to mine safely. If you don't do that, I have as much sympathy for your deaths as someone who goes into combat naked.
Unless, of course, you prospect danger after each mine. That's the the way to mine safely. If you don't do that, I have as much sympathy for your deaths as someone who goes into combat naked.
>>Unless, of course, you prospect danger after each mine. That's the the way to mine safely.
Really? That's considered an acceptable design to spend more roundtime entering garbage commands that do nothing and teach no experience than you spend in roundtimes on actual mining, as the only way to not be randomly struck down with no skillcheck?
Meh whatever I guess I'll just park an alt outside each mine to come dig me out. Anyone know what the syntax is?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Really? That's considered an acceptable design to spend more roundtime entering garbage commands that do nothing and teach no experience than you spend in roundtimes on actual mining, as the only way to not be randomly struck down with no skillcheck?
Meh whatever I guess I'll just park an alt outside each mine to come dig me out. Anyone know what the syntax is?
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>>There is no skillcheck, no stat check, no way whatsoever to avoid it.
I wait 8 seconds between each mining.
>>Unless, of course, you prospect danger after each mine.
This also works, too. When tag-teaming a mine with someone, I generally prospect danger while the other mines away. We get through rooms a lot faster that way. Plus, teamwork! YAY!
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
I wait 8 seconds between each mining.
>>Unless, of course, you prospect danger after each mine.
This also works, too. When tag-teaming a mine with someone, I generally prospect danger while the other mines away. We get through rooms a lot faster that way. Plus, teamwork! YAY!
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
>>I wait 8 seconds between each mining.
Prospecting careful between each swing is 37.5% faster.
Apu, wearing armor while you mine will almost always prevent mining deaths. I usually prospect careful after each swing if I'm just using my normal mining script, but if I'm impatient sometimes I only prospect careful after every third swing. This often results in me bleeding lightly or unconscious on the floor for a bit every second vein, but it's worth it for the time efficiency.
Prospecting careful between each swing is 37.5% faster.
Apu, wearing armor while you mine will almost always prevent mining deaths. I usually prospect careful after each swing if I'm just using my normal mining script, but if I'm impatient sometimes I only prospect careful after every third swing. This often results in me bleeding lightly or unconscious on the floor for a bit every second vein, but it's worth it for the time efficiency.
>Really? That's considered an acceptable design to spend more roundtime entering garbage commands that do nothing and teach no experience than you spend in roundtimes on actual mining, as the only way to not be randomly struck down with no skillcheck?
Yes. Paraphrasing GMs, "The faster you want to mine, the riskier your efforts are".
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Yes. Paraphrasing GMs, "The faster you want to mine, the riskier your efforts are".
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
>>It's because the danger messages are delayed
I don't think they're delayed as much as they're set to atmo once the room is set to "dangerous".
I've had a room atmo a right after mining or a few seconds after.
Fun fact! Because of the way the room atmo functions, you can get the danger messaging AFTER fixing the danger, if you're fast enough.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
I don't think they're delayed as much as they're set to atmo once the room is set to "dangerous".
I've had a room atmo a right after mining or a few seconds after.
Fun fact! Because of the way the room atmo functions, you can get the danger messaging AFTER fixing the danger, if you're fast enough.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
>>I've had a room atmo a right after mining or a few seconds after.
I'm going to say that happened because you are not using prospect danger after each swing. The delay in more around 11 seconds. Here is what happened:
You mined. It caused a danger. The danger message delay counter starts. Your roundtime for mining ends. You mine again. The danger counter runs down right afterwards. The mining message displays followed right by the danger message.
Abison/Rystien
I'm going to say that happened because you are not using prospect danger after each swing. The delay in more around 11 seconds. Here is what happened:
You mined. It caused a danger. The danger message delay counter starts. Your roundtime for mining ends. You mine again. The danger counter runs down right afterwards. The mining message displays followed right by the danger message.
Abison/Rystien
>>You guys are all crazy: I only wait about 2 or 3 seconds between swings and I very rarely get hit with anything.
I only had to wait 2 or 3 seconds when my roundtime for each swing was higher. Now that I tend to get 3-5 seconds per swing that doesn't give metal, I prefer to wait 8 seconds before based on my observational anecdata rooms can give that atmo trigger warning every 10 seconds.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
I only had to wait 2 or 3 seconds when my roundtime for each swing was higher. Now that I tend to get 3-5 seconds per swing that doesn't give metal, I prefer to wait 8 seconds before based on my observational anecdata rooms can give that atmo trigger warning every 10 seconds.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
>>I'm going to say that happened because you are not using prospect danger after each swing. The delay in more around 11 seconds.
You don't need to prospect danger after each swing. You can, but you can also just wait between each swing. 10 seconds is what I've guestimated, but close enough to what you said.
>>Here is what happened:
>>You mined. It caused a danger. The danger message delay counter starts. Your roundtime for mining ends. You mine again. The danger counter runs down right afterwards. The mining message displays followed right by the danger message.
Heh, that's not how I mine at all. I wait between mining. All I was saying in my response was that, because of the way room the atmos work, the "message" can show up right after or a few seconds later.
Let's say the check to see if the room should atmo is every 10 seconds. If you mine at the 9th second of that 10 second loop, you'll get the danger message immediately. Meanwhile, if you mine at the 1st second of that 10 second loop, you won't get the message for another 9 seconds, and since some people get 3-5 second RTs, if you don't wait a moment or two after each mine you might not get the warning message in time and risk a disaster.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
You don't need to prospect danger after each swing. You can, but you can also just wait between each swing. 10 seconds is what I've guestimated, but close enough to what you said.
>>Here is what happened:
>>You mined. It caused a danger. The danger message delay counter starts. Your roundtime for mining ends. You mine again. The danger counter runs down right afterwards. The mining message displays followed right by the danger message.
Heh, that's not how I mine at all. I wait between mining. All I was saying in my response was that, because of the way room the atmos work, the "message" can show up right after or a few seconds later.
Let's say the check to see if the room should atmo is every 10 seconds. If you mine at the 9th second of that 10 second loop, you'll get the danger message immediately. Meanwhile, if you mine at the 1st second of that 10 second loop, you won't get the message for another 9 seconds, and since some people get 3-5 second RTs, if you don't wait a moment or two after each mine you might not get the warning message in time and risk a disaster.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
- Pausing between swings does nothing to affect the chances of danger. Every swing has a small % chance to generate danger; the danger is instantly triggered the very moment you swing, before the game even returns feedback for your MINE command with roundtime attached to it.
- The only advantage to pausing between swings is to give yourself a couple more seconds to catch the danger's warning atmo; even then, you still might miss it before swinging again because of the highly variable nature of the MINE command's roundtime.
- Once danger has been generated, there is a % chance (I believe the % is flat, or within a very small range, like ~20%) for it to trigger on the next swing, and every subsequent swing increases the % chance of it triggering.
- A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering. This % reduction is, at minimum, equal to the initial rate of danger triggering. In other words, assuming a successful prospect danger every time, you will be 100% safe if you prospect danger after every swing.
- From a previous thread, I believe it is sometimes possible for your PROSPECT DANGER to reduce the % chance of triggering enough to negate several swings, though this would require some luck with the RNG and/or extreme levels of skill. At 700 perception/foraging and 500 appraisal, I fail within three standard deviations.
- The only advantage to pausing between swings is to give yourself a couple more seconds to catch the danger's warning atmo; even then, you still might miss it before swinging again because of the highly variable nature of the MINE command's roundtime.
- Once danger has been generated, there is a % chance (I believe the % is flat, or within a very small range, like ~20%) for it to trigger on the next swing, and every subsequent swing increases the % chance of it triggering.
- A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering. This % reduction is, at minimum, equal to the initial rate of danger triggering. In other words, assuming a successful prospect danger every time, you will be 100% safe if you prospect danger after every swing.
- From a previous thread, I believe it is sometimes possible for your PROSPECT DANGER to reduce the % chance of triggering enough to negate several swings, though this would require some luck with the RNG and/or extreme levels of skill. At 700 perception/foraging and 500 appraisal, I fail within three standard deviations.
>>Pausing between swings does nothing to affect the chances of danger.
Yes, pausing does nothing to reduce the chance of a danger forming, but pausing between swings does everything to influence the chance of the danger triggering, mainly because you are more likely to see the risk and fix it.
>>even then, you still might miss it before swinging again because of the highly variable nature of the MINE command's roundtime.
Based on observation, it atmos every 10 seconds. So as long as you make sure your RT + pause time is over 10, you are generally safe.
>>A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering.
I'm wondering what you based this on. PROSPECT DANGER doesn't prevent a the chance of a danger forming. It removes the danger after it forms. I don't believe that it has any preventative effects at all.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Yes, pausing does nothing to reduce the chance of a danger forming, but pausing between swings does everything to influence the chance of the danger triggering, mainly because you are more likely to see the risk and fix it.
>>even then, you still might miss it before swinging again because of the highly variable nature of the MINE command's roundtime.
Based on observation, it atmos every 10 seconds. So as long as you make sure your RT + pause time is over 10, you are generally safe.
>>A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering.
I'm wondering what you based this on. PROSPECT DANGER doesn't prevent a the chance of a danger forming. It removes the danger after it forms. I don't believe that it has any preventative effects at all.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
> Based on observation, it atmos every 10 seconds. So as long as you make sure your RT + pause time is over 10, you are generally safe.
I'm fairly certain I've seen it take longer. As in I mine, the RT is 20 seconds, and after 14 seconds I get the message. Losing a vein of glaes that way is why my script now has an option to do PROSPECT DANGER after every swing.
>>A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering.
> I'm wondering what you based this on.
You're using different definitions of "trigger". You mean trigger as "the room gets ready to do bad stuff to you". He means trigger as "bad stuff happens and you're sad".
I'm fairly certain I've seen it take longer. As in I mine, the RT is 20 seconds, and after 14 seconds I get the message. Losing a vein of glaes that way is why my script now has an option to do PROSPECT DANGER after every swing.
>>A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering.
> I'm wondering what you based this on.
You're using different definitions of "trigger". You mean trigger as "the room gets ready to do bad stuff to you". He means trigger as "bad stuff happens and you're sad".
>>Apu, wearing armor while you mine will almost always prevent mining deaths.
I always wear armor while mining but it has never made any difference. I always die automatically to the following cavein:
The ring of your narrow pickaxe against stone seems unnaturally loud. An disconcerting silence follows, but only for a moment. The entire wall of rock fractures at your blow and comes crashing down atop you! You feel miraculously unhurt, but realize you are entirely unable to move!
The delayed messaging and dangerous mining wouldn't be so stupid if there wasn't this one specific danger which automatically kills you. All other mining dangers can be survived if you meet the appropriate skillcheck or statcheck (such as enough evasion to dodge 4 adan'f even while unconscious, or enough stamina to walk off severe bleeders and missing limbs), but for this particular mining danger the only possible way to survive is to park an alt outside the mine to come dig you out. I could live with the delayed danger messaging if this particular danger wasn't the equivalent of the old "open roll, random lucky one shot crit" that ruins combat
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
I always wear armor while mining but it has never made any difference. I always die automatically to the following cavein:
The ring of your narrow pickaxe against stone seems unnaturally loud. An disconcerting silence follows, but only for a moment. The entire wall of rock fractures at your blow and comes crashing down atop you! You feel miraculously unhurt, but realize you are entirely unable to move!
The delayed messaging and dangerous mining wouldn't be so stupid if there wasn't this one specific danger which automatically kills you. All other mining dangers can be survived if you meet the appropriate skillcheck or statcheck (such as enough evasion to dodge 4 adan'f even while unconscious, or enough stamina to walk off severe bleeders and missing limbs), but for this particular mining danger the only possible way to survive is to park an alt outside the mine to come dig you out. I could live with the delayed danger messaging if this particular danger wasn't the equivalent of the old "open roll, random lucky one shot crit" that ruins combat
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
Each mining disaster type has a fatal one. For example, there is a gas one where your lungs instantly melt.
I think The cave in is actually the only fatal one that can be prevented.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
I think The cave in is actually the only fatal one that can be prevented.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
That sucks, apparantly a slow, gruesome, crushing death if someone doesn't come and dig you out or something?
I've pinged the knockout gas a few times but woke up before any critters could eat me. I've had walls explode and blast me in the (helmeted) head and cause internal bleeders, i've even seen corrosive gas melt room resources, but i've never seen a kill trigger yet.
What are the other known ones?
I've pinged the knockout gas a few times but woke up before any critters could eat me. I've had walls explode and blast me in the (helmeted) head and cause internal bleeders, i've even seen corrosive gas melt room resources, but i've never seen a kill trigger yet.
What are the other known ones?
>>I never mine with a pickaxe unless I'm clearing a room of useless (to me) metal. If you want to prevent cave ins use a shovel.
I don't even have a pickaxe, all I use is a shovel. Hasn't helped me one bit
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
I don't even have a pickaxe, all I use is a shovel. Hasn't helped me one bit
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Apu
>> I don't even have a pickaxe, all I use is a shovel. Hasn't helped me one bit
So I ran a bit of a test in the fallen today. I went up to the dirge, picked up a shovel - store bought, and mined for about 5 hours straight. I came back to the script without a single cave in. Of course, mining was very very slow, but it was safe.
Here's my basic script:
Loop:
put mine
pause 5
pause 1
put prospect danger
pause 5
pause 1
put prospect
pause 5
pause 1
# if the resources are running low, move to a new mine.
goto loop
So I ran a bit of a test in the fallen today. I went up to the dirge, picked up a shovel - store bought, and mined for about 5 hours straight. I came back to the script without a single cave in. Of course, mining was very very slow, but it was safe.
Here's my basic script:
Loop:
put mine
pause 5
pause 1
put prospect danger
pause 5
pause 1
put prospect
pause 5
pause 1
# if the resources are running low, move to a new mine.
goto loop
Only 5 hours?
I've mined for upwards of 12 hours straight without incident on two characters in 2 different mines.
My script is a bit more complicated than that, but yeah, it boils down to prospect danger/mine a few times, and then a prospect every now and then.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
I've mined for upwards of 12 hours straight without incident on two characters in 2 different mines.
My script is a bit more complicated than that, but yeah, it boils down to prospect danger/mine a few times, and then a prospect every now and then.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
If prospecting after every mine is too tedious, try it every second mine. You cut your added RT from prospecting in half, and rarely ever trigger anything. You also get the possibility of 'sometimes that first mine after a danger message doesn't trigger it' effect working in your favor.
More mining zeal = More risk, so increase your safety tenfold by adding the extra 2.5 secs of RT per mine attempt.
More mining zeal = More risk, so increase your safety tenfold by adding the extra 2.5 secs of RT per mine attempt.
>>A successful PROSPECT DANGER reduces the % chance of the anger triggering.
>>I'm wondering what you based this on. PROSPECT DANGER doesn't prevent a the chance of a danger forming. It removes the danger after it forms. I don't believe that it has any preventative effects at all.
I would consider prospect danger to lower the % chance of the danger triggering AND possibly removing all the danger. So I think the inital statement is true.
For example:
If Mine 1 causes danger.
>if you prospect here you see that it is "slightly dangerous"
This "slightly dangerous" IS a % chance to cause a disaster.
Mine 2 (without prospecting danger) will either:
1. Cause a disaster
2. Increase the percentage chance of causing a disaster
>if number 2, you can prospect danger and see "somewhat dangerous"
Mine 3 is the same as mine 2, except I personally never passed this point without causing the disaster so the % chance must be really high.
But I have prospected danger at this point and it removes a % chance of danger back to "slightly dangerous"
I wish it worked differently, because if you get to mine 2 above, and prospect danger down to "slightly dangerous" the room is pretty much useless because you have to wait until you can prospect danger again which takes forever.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>I'm wondering what you based this on. PROSPECT DANGER doesn't prevent a the chance of a danger forming. It removes the danger after it forms. I don't believe that it has any preventative effects at all.
I would consider prospect danger to lower the % chance of the danger triggering AND possibly removing all the danger. So I think the inital statement is true.
For example:
If Mine 1 causes danger.
>if you prospect here you see that it is "slightly dangerous"
This "slightly dangerous" IS a % chance to cause a disaster.
Mine 2 (without prospecting danger) will either:
1. Cause a disaster
2. Increase the percentage chance of causing a disaster
>if number 2, you can prospect danger and see "somewhat dangerous"
Mine 3 is the same as mine 2, except I personally never passed this point without causing the disaster so the % chance must be really high.
But I have prospected danger at this point and it removes a % chance of danger back to "slightly dangerous"
I wish it worked differently, because if you get to mine 2 above, and prospect danger down to "slightly dangerous" the room is pretty much useless because you have to wait until you can prospect danger again which takes forever.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>I would consider prospect danger to lower the % chance of the danger triggering AND possibly removing all the danger. So I think the inital statement is true.
Ah, okay.
I thought you were saying that PROSPECT DANGER reduced the change of a room becoming [slightly or otherwise] dangerous to begin with. That's what I thought was a bit questionable.
Once a room does have some level of danger, I agree that PROSPECT DANGER definitely reduces the chance of a danger, but more often than not it tends to just outright remove it entirely.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Ah, okay.
I thought you were saying that PROSPECT DANGER reduced the change of a room becoming [slightly or otherwise] dangerous to begin with. That's what I thought was a bit questionable.
Once a room does have some level of danger, I agree that PROSPECT DANGER definitely reduces the chance of a danger, but more often than not it tends to just outright remove it entirely.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
>>>>I'm wondering what you based this on. PROSPECT DANGER doesn't prevent a the chance of a danger forming. It removes the danger after it forms. I don't believe that it has any preventative effects at all.
As someone else said, we are using different definitions of the word 'trigger.' I am using the word spawn to indicate a danger has formed from mining, and trigger to indicate you activate the danger once it has already formed.
As someone else said, we are using different definitions of the word 'trigger.' I am using the word spawn to indicate a danger has formed from mining, and trigger to indicate you activate the danger once it has already formed.
