Read the books, he was in there as well

Spoilers. Beware.
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I think one of the things that was most successful, was the portrayal of Gollum. The book does go into details that he has two personalities... Slinker (the pitiable Smeagol) and Stinker (the corrupt Gollum.) It was good to see this played up, and I would have to say, that this was the most I have ever felt sorry for Gollum. I sort of felt that in reading the book, totally didn't feel compassion for him in any of the movie/cartoon versions, but really got it this time.

I liked Theoden's portrayal. The points where he puts people in their place are great. A King must be in control - he has that responsibility, and he has to protect his people. If he can't do those things, he is not King. He doesn't always have to be right, he just has to take charge. That's a rough idea to get past most of the current generation of American gamers who think Kingship is for weenies who should just be everybody's friend and kowtow to adventurers, but it was well done.

The ents were great. Can't say anything bad about them.

The change I disliked the most was Faramir. He was supposed to be different from Boromir primarily through his Dunadan ability to read people's hearts. That was the point of the interaction in the book - he knew what Frodo was saying was true, and let him go. Boromir didn't have that ability because he didn't have that strong a connection to the "High Men" which was why he tried to take the ring to Gondor. Bypassing that, makes Faramir ultimately no different than Boromir - he is not a 'high man' (Dunadan.) So I'm not sure how they're going to show that difference, or even if they're just going to ignore the concept of the men of Westernesse having inherent qualities that make them Kings. That would suck. That was a key point of Tolkien's story.

---

Brett

Spoiler...

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As far as Arwen shipping off, that was sorta odd but not impossible. In the books, it's clear that ships are leaving all the time. The elves that are seen at the very beginning are taking a ship to the west, for example. So although most of the main characters don't take a ship until the end of the books, it wasn't the only one leaving Middle Earth.

---Brett

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Twenty bucks says Arwen is either still in Middle Earth, or is back before the end of Return of the King.

Tam

Enjoyed the use of Gollum, really like the way they make is seem Samwise is so very neccesary to Frodo as a companion - how it seems Frodo would be lost without him. I always like the way that Frodo's most ordinary of companions becomes the most extraordinary.

Didn't have much of an issue with the changes - some needed to be made. I did dislike the use of Faramir, but it makes some sense.

Favortie lines:

"What can men do against such relentless hate?"

"Ride out to meet it."

Went on the midnight showing. Even though I'm usually dead to the world by that time, I was wide awake throughout the entire movie. I personally don't think it's tiring.. but I guess it's probably just different for everyone.

In general, great movie. It really does pictures the combat well. I couldn't really get good fighting pictures in my mind when I read, so this movie certainly brings the book to live in that aspects.

However, personally, I like the first one better. Maybe because this one has more deviations compared to the first, maybe because the story seems.. short, and only two or three completely linear ones. I'm not sure. But that's my first impression. Could change as I see it more.

*Spoiler below (tough cookie if you're using the new boards)*
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I agree with Brett. I dislike the portrayal of Faramir in this movie. I can forgive (iow, don't mind much) the movie deviating from the book in little details, or order of events, etc.

But characters are important to me. In the book, Faramir is so much better than how he's portrayed in the movie, for reasons Brett stated earlier. You just don't get the same general idea of his good qualities in this movie. He appears to be just like Boromir, and none the wiser, which is not true.

I also think the portrayal of Theoden is a bit off. From what I remember, after Gandalf released him from Wormtongue's hold, he immediately became the leader. While he does act like the king in this movie, I get an impression he's not willing to fight until the very last. He was even still in the keep when the fighting started at Helm's Deep. Whereas riding out to meet the enemy was the first thing he did in the book. (I might be a bit off, my recollection's a bit fuzzy.. but I thought Theoden and a group rode out to delay the enemy a bit while the people went to Helm's Deep?).

Someone mentioned Cirith Ungol (that's the place with the big icky spider, yes?)..
I'm pretty sure that will be in the next one, since Gollum did say 'perhaps she can take care of them'.

I also got annoyed when the Elves appeared out of the blue, but they're cool, and I like seeing Elves.. so that didn't bother me much.

The part with Arwen is just confusing. So did she and Strider break it up? Is she leaving? Just a big 'huh?' from me.

IMO, the battle at Osgiliath didn't need to be included in this movie. The type of scenes we see is similar to the one at Helm's Deep anyway, and it just clutters the storyline. Not to mention I'm not even sure if that's in the book. I know for certain either way, Frodo and Sam should not be there.

Can't get to my book right now, so someone remind me.. in the book, Gandalf simply survived the encounter with the Balrog, right? Not died and came back to life as the movie implies (or is it outright states)? I don't like the coming back to life bit.. it makes it like Gandalf is more special than he is. Of course.. maybe I'm wrong that's how it happened in the book.

Now on to the good stuff.

Love the Ents' attack on Isengard. I think that's just a perfect representation of it. How they got there is a different matter, but the attack itself was awesome.

Legolas. Need I say more? <g>

Love the fact they show the growing camaraderie between Legolas and Gimli, including the kill-counting. It's easy to overlook a detail like that, but the inclusion just adds to so much the character development, imo.

I think they did a good job in showing the conflict between Gollum and Smeagol. Though at one point.. for some odd reason I was reminded of Jar Jar (::wince::). But in general, I like this part.

Battle scenes are great. The attack on Helm's Deep may not follow the book to the letter, but they've done a great job to keep it not boring. Don't remember if the bomb thing was in the book (I don't think so), but that was a nice touch nonetheless.

I'll have to see it again to fully appreciate the movie without all the book comparison. And maybe this time I'll go watch the extended version of FOTR (which I haven't watched ever since its arrival at my house a few weeks ago, arrgh), right before seeing The Two Towers again.

Nah, I didn't miss that part. Don't get me wrong, he was durn cool, but in melee, he shoulda had more kills than Legolas.

"2..." "17..." Bah. :D

~i

2....to 17

He was just slow to start the elf was counting wall shots.

I remember hear 98... 99

alittle bit later you may have missed the fact that he caught up.

DONT READ if you havent seen it
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The dwarf in this (can I say best fantasy film ever made) Was so perfect..... Just like I picture Grimslayer. Made you think if they had 50 dwarves they could have held the keep without help. The next one needs more dwarves....Dwarves rule..... He wasnt comic relief he was the best..... cant be serious all the time in war you would go crazy.


ALL in all super super film!!!

Grimslayer ....."We can take um" "toss me"
















Intelligence is not remembering facts and processes. It’s being able to use what you know for personal or social gain.

<<I don't like the coming back to life bit.. it makes it like Gandalf is more special than he is.>>

Well, Gandalf IS special. He's an Istari.. not even remotely human. The Valar (Gods) sent them to fight the evil and help the races overcome it.

So it would make sense for the Gods to send him back to finish what they sent him to do.



- player of a few and disturbed by the voices in my head because of it :)

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<<(I might be a bit off, my recollection's a bit fuzzy.. but I thought Theoden and a group rode out to delay the enemy a bit while the people went to Helm's Deep?).

This did happen in the movie. It was the fight Aragon fell off the cliff into the river and Gimli was stuck on an ever increasing pile of the enemy.

Sylme

>Its not a big deal, but yeah Gandalf was sent back to finish his task. Very well could be that he died, and was sent back. The book isnt very clear on that but does state "Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time." Sounds like he might of died to me.

Ah yes.. I know why I took it the wrong way. I read that as passing out. ::ducks::

>Well, Gandalf IS special. He's an Istari.. not even remotely human. The Valar (Gods) sent them to fight the evil and help the races overcome it.

>So it would make sense for the Gods to send him back to finish what they sent him to do.

Nice to know. Is that from the appendix or another book?

A good way to understand the Maiar (helpers to the Valar) is to keep in mind that the Balrogs are the same thing, but work for Morgoth (yeah, he's the bad one out of the Valar lot, and Sauron's boss.) It's thought that the Istari work directly for Eru (the One.)

So Gandalf and the Balrog were like two sides to a coin, of about equal strength. This is why the wizards could toss each other around painfully in the first movie without breaking a hip like they would have if they were just old men.

---Brett

In parts of the Silmarillion, Gandalf and his kin are refered to as maia...they are a type of demi-god as I understand, ethereal beings, perhaps angels. He is not a mere human or a mere mortal.

Allarsk