>I thought circle also factored in. Does it?

As far as I know, it only factors into the equation via the TDPs gained from circling.

A circle 150 who had tens of thousands of TDPs saved up - never used any of them - would have the same MR as a circle 1 with the same stats.



Disclaimer: This is not proven fact.


________
Re: Life mana Spell preps

You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.

There's a whole lot of mis-information going on about what factors into dances.

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

>There's a whole lot of mis-information going on about what factors into dances.

That clears that right up.

>> JMF90 >> That clears that right up.

I'm glad I could be especially helpful.

>> DA >> Concentration.

>> DA >> Ergo, circle and discipline.

You're leaving out a good deal about what powers dances. It's more than just circle and discipline. I'd hate to see younger folks start neglecting other stats in thinking that just training discipline will give them optimal results for dances.

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

>>Please post what else goes into dances.

Email my play.net address. I'll be home from work in an hour.

>>The question was "what stats power dances?" not "what factors can influence dances?"

Yes I know. What stats power a dance. To me that reads "what stats influence the power and duration of a dance." Are we reading the question the same way? I'm not talking about outside factors like armor hinderence and the like.

>>Dance length and power is calculated by concentration, which is a function of discipline and circle. They even list the formula for concentration calculation on the website.

By my notes you've only got half of it. There's more that factors into the power as far as I know.

>>After the initial power of a dance is determined, that power can be lowered by burden or armor hindrance, so keeping your equipment low (or your strength/stamina high) is optimal. This is not the same, however, as directly powering dances.

From the folks I've talked to and the stuff I've seen only duration can be changed via burden or hinderence. The power will remain the same. I'm pretty sure this has been tested in the forge. Go power up bear dance - note your time for pounding. Swap armor into something more hindering - watch for the focus shift - then pound again. Duration drops but the power should remain the same. I'll have to double check this myself tonight.

Like I said, shoot me an email. I don't like giving out formulas and such that I've come across over the message boards for various reasons.

My only goal from my original post was to let folks know that, as far as I know, there is more to dances than just discipline and by proxy concentration.

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

No, it is not stamina.


-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."
!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

I have around 260 concentration (forgot) and I can try every dance if you'd like. Dragon I can dance back to back only when I'm hunting (killing to gain IF). Outside of killing lots of critters I can't dance it again.

Panther I don't think I can, not sure. I haven't used Wolverine in forever but I can try that too. Everything below I can dance back to back a million times even outside of hunting.

---

Vinjince Rexem'lor

245 concentration and I can dance panther back to back as long as I am actively killing text.

>>311 in concentration and I can't dance Dragon back to back even with non stop killing of incredibly swarmy super celps.

That could have to do with all the dying mwhahahahahaha

Wolverine is nice for a few reasons. It's a strength boost for additional encumberance potential to carry more loot during a hunt, it has a melee offensive boost and it has a balance boost which helps both defensively and offensively.

I can dance dragon back to back during a hunt, depending on a creature. I know for a fact that adult and elder armadillos have a very good rate both in Prime and in Test mode (where I made sure I tested with being the only person in the server - not just that specific hunting ground). In both situations, the rate of spawn is excellent. Northern barricade super celpeze have excellent rate of spawn there also. There are other creatures that have excellent rate of spawn. I remember being able to do this around mid 90th circle at least.

What you want to take into account is your overall hinderance armor, your burden, your concentration, and the amount of creatures you are killing that teach you in a weapon to actively regain inner fire - so basically, you want to look at your inner fire level at the time you are dancing dragon to make sure it meets the minimum requirement to be able to dance dragon.

I believe I can dance dragon back to back out of combat, at least one time back to back.

Even though the dance cap duration is the same for all dances, I prefer wolverine for melee training and eagle for ranged training in almost every situation I can think of for long term hunting. Dragon dance is more suitable for shorter term PvP interaction or certain invasion creatures.

- Simon

No prob, man. Even at 150th, I'm still using wolverine dance. It's not really so much whether someone can or cannot dance back to back for dragon. Everyone has always been fixated on that and I can understand why, however I'm looking at it in terms of meeting my objectives. Wolverine dance meets my objectives for melee training with minimal costs that I can maintain, especially for long term hunting.

Just another perspective to look at.

- Simon

>I think all dances/Forms should have a balance boost present.....it just makes sense. I don't think it would make any of them OP by any means....the one that already has borderline OPness (dragon) already has a balance boost so that one is irrevelant to this request.

This is the exact philosophy that led to people using only dragon once they can. If you make dances more similar, people just choose the best one.

>>This is also the philosopy that leads to the thought of breaking them up and allowing stacking. Then you would only need one of the dances to provide a balance boost which could then be used in conjunction with whatever other boosts you want up to your own ability to stack them based upon whatever factors we involve.<<

Right right that makes total sense. If they end up being stackable than my request wouldn't apply to them.

However, currently I think the dances should all carry a balance boost of some sort. I assume the new "forms" are a long shot off yet.


Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html

>Not sure I totally understand...giving something like a balance boost to eagle dance isn't going to make eagle less desirable over dragon, that just doesn't make sense....obviously everyone that can dance dragon back to back to back are just going to use that because it encompasses pretty much everything all the other dances do. But thats at 100+ circle or something.

No, adding a balance boost to eagle dance makes swan dance less appealing. That was my point.

<<oh, lol, swan dance, yeah. But we are dealing with the system how it is now because it's already in production. Dances can't be stacked, so the "best" ability is always going to be used if they do the same thing, which some of the dances do, granted.>>

Swan dance has it's own special function in faster engagement. Dances are stacked, that's the purpose of dances.

The difference is stacking which stats/skill (also including intimidation or fear resistance) boosts you want, when you want it. Much like the khri system in terms of choosing how they want it set up.

- Simon

Not sure where I heard it, but I'm under the impression that strength is determined by discipline, and duration is determined by concentration.

>>Not sure where I heard it, but I'm under the impression that strength is determined by discipline, and duration is determined by concentration.

Which would mean discipline is the primary factor for all of it.


Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html

To be clearer, my understanding is that concentration determines Inner Fire usage, which in turn determines duration.

I don't remember where or from whom I read/heard this, but it seems to work this way in my anecdotal experience.

I thought dances were only affected in duration, not power.

As far as the rewrite discussion mentioned, I do agree that IF needs to be adjusted. What I don't understand is so many are pushing to have everything completely rewritten when some of our bonuses are pretty awesome now. Why not just get some more weapon feats, roars targetable, tweaks to berserk inner fire penalties, and meditations(non-combat ones) for now. This is really what I am hoping for even though I get caught up in the discussions of total rewrite. I am enjoying almost all of the abilities I currently have besides Kuniyo's Spirit roar because of its inefectiveness and Cyclone Berserk because of post-berserk stun despite killing at level creatures non-stop.

Great post Rmel. I have to agree with everything. The roar re-write should include a complete rewrite of intimidation.

Also, just a side note... I would like to see Charisma become a factor in some other places, other than just Roars. If I'm going to raise Charisma and keep it in line with my other stats, I want it to effect more than just auto-depart timers and the effectiveness of Roars that I use now and then.