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So I had like 8 open roar slots so I went and got the full list of what Vinjince described in a earlier post.
I (think) got another slot or two and I'm looking for some good suggestions, mainly with PVP in mind.
Kuniyo's + my HT weapon (at pole/ranged)?
A battlecry? (Maybe +intimidation to follow up with better roars?)
>>Roars and Battle Cries that you currently know:
>> Everild's Rage
>> Trothfang's Butchery
>> Death's Embrace
>> Death's Shriek
>> Lash of Torment
>> Screech of Madness
>> Banshee's Wail
>> Anger the Earth
>> Slash the Shadows
Wolfegard quietly says, "I got hitched in a tree."
Moving carefully, you slip your hand into Wolfegard's pockets and carefully grab a gold wedding band.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
>>Never, ever get a battle cry. They are the the staff slings of roars.
One or two are actually decent, to my recollection (been a long time since they were on test preview). Honor basically works like the inverse of Screech of Madness, Vengeance can snap your buddy out of a stun, Bloodthirst is a pretty crazy offensive bonus. But yes, I wouldn't recommend them, especially if your focus is PvP.
Weighted Justice is nice, if you happen to find yourself in a melee battle. Honestly... you're kind of tapped out, as far as your average PvP battle is concerned. I would look at functionality beyond PvP for your next couple roars, like Serpent's Hiss of Warning, for those lazy days when you don't feel like retreating when you're done hunting.
*******
Malkien
One or two are actually decent, to my recollection (been a long time since they were on test preview). Honor basically works like the inverse of Screech of Madness, Vengeance can snap your buddy out of a stun, Bloodthirst is a pretty crazy offensive bonus. But yes, I wouldn't recommend them, especially if your focus is PvP.
Weighted Justice is nice, if you happen to find yourself in a melee battle. Honestly... you're kind of tapped out, as far as your average PvP battle is concerned. I would look at functionality beyond PvP for your next couple roars, like Serpent's Hiss of Warning, for those lazy days when you don't feel like retreating when you're done hunting.
*******
Malkien
>>No battlecry is decent.
I disagree. They're situational; that does not make all of them terrible (emphasis on the all part, most are pretty useless).
OP's case is a good example. At this point, his opponent is stunned, immobilized, on his knees, unbalanced, suffering from a reduction in his defenses (above and beyond the reductions from all of the previous stuff), suffering from a reduced defense to intimidation, and suffering from an offensive penalty. What else is there? Do you need a roar to wrap him up for Christmas, too?
I definitely wouldn't compare Steadfastness to Screech or Wail or Slash or Serpent's Hiss, at all. But you reach a point of critical mass where you have eight disabling roars to choose from, at which point something different becomes more valuable, even if you're only going to use it twice a month.
So yes, I'm basically saying a couple of the battle cries are better than an empty slot. If not by much.
*******
Malkien
I disagree. They're situational; that does not make all of them terrible (emphasis on the all part, most are pretty useless).
OP's case is a good example. At this point, his opponent is stunned, immobilized, on his knees, unbalanced, suffering from a reduction in his defenses (above and beyond the reductions from all of the previous stuff), suffering from a reduced defense to intimidation, and suffering from an offensive penalty. What else is there? Do you need a roar to wrap him up for Christmas, too?
I definitely wouldn't compare Steadfastness to Screech or Wail or Slash or Serpent's Hiss, at all. But you reach a point of critical mass where you have eight disabling roars to choose from, at which point something different becomes more valuable, even if you're only going to use it twice a month.
So yes, I'm basically saying a couple of the battle cries are better than an empty slot. If not by much.
*******
Malkien
On a positive note, as long as you grab the few really good roars, it doesn't matter what else you choose. I have one more slot that I'll never fill because there really is no point (unless I want to unlock a couple titles). Plus a rewrite is coming, so we get to choose all over again anyway.
>>The onus here is on you, I'm afraid. It's your premise, not mine.
1) There is a non-trivial population of critters in the realm who are effectively immune to intimidation (noncorporeal undead), as well as a very large chunk of critters who have a big resistance to it (corporeal undead). I can't roar five skeletons at my level with the harder roars like Wail even with a roar helm and berserk nightmare, and charisma is my highest stat by 6 points. My discipline is also good, since you think that counts.
2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters. Even if you're grouped with several people, chances are there are a half-dozen people in the room not holding your hand, which means you're either dividing your roar amongst too many targets to have any hope of success or immobilizing some poor lowbie in a room full of goblin archers. Either way, you can't roar with impunity, which makes battle cries an attractive option during certain moments.
3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat. A bonus to defense is functional, and does not detract from your ability to immobilize foo's when you need to. Another random example: Bloodthirst isn't good, per se, but dang is it fun. It's a huge offensive bonus, and it stacks with Cobra Dance or Eagle Dance, so its entertaining to get one of my friends in a group and watch every single critter get one-shotted helplessly. Fish in a barrel!
There you go. As a reminder, you absolutely should pick multiple roars first. I am not arguing you shouldn't. Roars are much more useful on a day-to-day basis. But like I said, if you've got eight roars already, battle cries are better than an empty slot.
*******
Malkien
1) There is a non-trivial population of critters in the realm who are effectively immune to intimidation (noncorporeal undead), as well as a very large chunk of critters who have a big resistance to it (corporeal undead). I can't roar five skeletons at my level with the harder roars like Wail even with a roar helm and berserk nightmare, and charisma is my highest stat by 6 points. My discipline is also good, since you think that counts.
2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters. Even if you're grouped with several people, chances are there are a half-dozen people in the room not holding your hand, which means you're either dividing your roar amongst too many targets to have any hope of success or immobilizing some poor lowbie in a room full of goblin archers. Either way, you can't roar with impunity, which makes battle cries an attractive option during certain moments.
3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat. A bonus to defense is functional, and does not detract from your ability to immobilize foo's when you need to. Another random example: Bloodthirst isn't good, per se, but dang is it fun. It's a huge offensive bonus, and it stacks with Cobra Dance or Eagle Dance, so its entertaining to get one of my friends in a group and watch every single critter get one-shotted helplessly. Fish in a barrel!
There you go. As a reminder, you absolutely should pick multiple roars first. I am not arguing you shouldn't. Roars are much more useful on a day-to-day basis. But like I said, if you've got eight roars already, battle cries are better than an empty slot.
*******
Malkien
Grab the anti-magic roars.
Mages must suffer. SUFFER!
(In all honesty, they're more or less useless, but I enjoy them anyways.)
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Mages must suffer. SUFFER!
(In all honesty, they're more or less useless, but I enjoy them anyways.)
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
<<1) There is a non-trivial population of critters in the realm who are effectively immune to intimidation (noncorporeal undead), as well as a very large chunk of critters who have a big resistance to it (corporeal undead). I can't roar five skeletons at my level with the harder roars like Wail even with a roar helm and berserk nightmare, and charisma is my highest stat by 6 points. My discipline is also good, since you think that counts.
I have no problem roaring corporeal undead above my level. Intimidation is a crazy system, of course, and it's hard to judge what you're doing wrong. I don't hunt non-corporeal undead unless I've been dragged into it by a Cleric.
<<2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters.
They also occur inside justice areas frequently. Invasions are one of those situations where, under the current Intimidation system, roaring is counter-productive. I have honestly have not found myself in an invasion going "man I wish I could roar right now." The last time I roared in an invasion was probably the Gorbesh War.
<<3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat.
Roaring in group hunting is easy. Be in a group.
<<battle cries are better than an empty slot.
Damning with faint praise.
I have no problem roaring corporeal undead above my level. Intimidation is a crazy system, of course, and it's hard to judge what you're doing wrong. I don't hunt non-corporeal undead unless I've been dragged into it by a Cleric.
<<2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters.
They also occur inside justice areas frequently. Invasions are one of those situations where, under the current Intimidation system, roaring is counter-productive. I have honestly have not found myself in an invasion going "man I wish I could roar right now." The last time I roared in an invasion was probably the Gorbesh War.
<<3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat.
Roaring in group hunting is easy. Be in a group.
<<battle cries are better than an empty slot.
Damning with faint praise.
>>1) There is a non-trivial population of critters in the realm who are effectively immune to intimidation (noncorporeal undead), as well as a very large chunk of critters who have a big resistance to it (corporeal undead). I can't roar five skeletons at my level with the harder roars like Wail even with a roar helm and berserk nightmare, and charisma is my highest stat by 6 points. My discipline is also good, since you think that counts.<<
There are other, better options, than those that are roarable and teach better. Non-issue here.
>2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters. Even if you're grouped with several people, chances are there are a half-dozen people in the room not holding your hand, which means you're either dividing your roar amongst too many targets to have any hope of success or immobilizing some poor lowbie in a room full of goblin archers. Either way, you can't roar with impunity, which makes battle cries an attractive option during certain moments.<<
Or I could just do hold noobie;roar X and accomplish a better feat.
>>3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat. A bonus to defense is functional, and does not detract from your ability to immobilize foo's when you need to. Another random example: Bloodthirst isn't good, per se, but dang is it fun. It's a huge offensive bonus, and it stacks with Cobra Dance or Eagle Dance, so its entertaining to get one of my friends in a group and watch every single critter get one-shotted helplessly. Fish in a barrel!<<
Roars get a boost from people in your group. I was doing a group hunt with the Theren Guard, walked in with about 10 people in my group and killed about a dozen raiders and immobilized orc savages with back to back roars. Don't need a battle cry when you can do that with roars.
There are other, better options, than those that are roarable and teach better. Non-issue here.
>2) Invasions. Many of them feature hulking super-critters also resistant or immune to intimidation. They also, during the opening minutes, tend to huge clusters of people and critters. Even if you're grouped with several people, chances are there are a half-dozen people in the room not holding your hand, which means you're either dividing your roar amongst too many targets to have any hope of success or immobilizing some poor lowbie in a room full of goblin archers. Either way, you can't roar with impunity, which makes battle cries an attractive option during certain moments.<<
Or I could just do hold noobie;roar X and accomplish a better feat.
>>3) Group hunting in general. Many people are members of things like the Theren Guard, which practices group combat. A bonus to defense is functional, and does not detract from your ability to immobilize foo's when you need to. Another random example: Bloodthirst isn't good, per se, but dang is it fun. It's a huge offensive bonus, and it stacks with Cobra Dance or Eagle Dance, so its entertaining to get one of my friends in a group and watch every single critter get one-shotted helplessly. Fish in a barrel!<<
Roars get a boost from people in your group. I was doing a group hunt with the Theren Guard, walked in with about 10 people in my group and killed about a dozen raiders and immobilized orc savages with back to back roars. Don't need a battle cry when you can do that with roars.
>>I have no problem roaring corporeal undead above my level. Intimidation is a crazy system, of course, and it's hard to judge what you're doing wrong. I don't hunt non-corporeal undead unless I've been dragged into it by a Cleric.
You have a habit of selective reading. I specifically said five undead, with Banshee's Wail, above my level. I should add "at missile range" also just to be super-specific.
>>They also occur inside justice areas frequently. Invasions are one of those situations where, under the current Intimidation system, roaring is counter-productive. I have honestly have not found myself in an invasion going "man I wish I could roar right now." The last time I roared in an invasion was probably the Gorbesh War.
Justice is routinely turned off during invasions.
>>Roaring in group hunting is easy. Be in a group.
I said "battle cries with groups are fun." Somehow you turned this into "roaring with a group is difficult." I understand the mechanics behind roars, thank you.
>>There are other, better options, than those that are roarable and teach better. Non-issue here.
I said battle cries can be useful in specific situations. You challenged me to provide you with situations. I did. You rebutted by telling me how to avoid those situations. Completely missed the point there, friend.
>>damning with faint praise
I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
>>Or I could just do hold noobie;roar X and accomplish a better feat.
I'm talking about 10+ people in the room. With more constantly coming and going. And the scroll associated with ten people engaged in combat versus twenty critters. I'm not talking about a single stray person. You must have some very impressive macros!
*******
Malkien
You have a habit of selective reading. I specifically said five undead, with Banshee's Wail, above my level. I should add "at missile range" also just to be super-specific.
>>They also occur inside justice areas frequently. Invasions are one of those situations where, under the current Intimidation system, roaring is counter-productive. I have honestly have not found myself in an invasion going "man I wish I could roar right now." The last time I roared in an invasion was probably the Gorbesh War.
Justice is routinely turned off during invasions.
>>Roaring in group hunting is easy. Be in a group.
I said "battle cries with groups are fun." Somehow you turned this into "roaring with a group is difficult." I understand the mechanics behind roars, thank you.
>>There are other, better options, than those that are roarable and teach better. Non-issue here.
I said battle cries can be useful in specific situations. You challenged me to provide you with situations. I did. You rebutted by telling me how to avoid those situations. Completely missed the point there, friend.
>>damning with faint praise
I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
>>Or I could just do hold noobie;roar X and accomplish a better feat.
I'm talking about 10+ people in the room. With more constantly coming and going. And the scroll associated with ten people engaged in combat versus twenty critters. I'm not talking about a single stray person. You must have some very impressive macros!
*******
Malkien
<<You have a habit of selective reading. I specifically said five undead, with Banshee's Wail, above my level. I should add "at missile range" also just to be super-specific.
I meant 4-6 corporeal undead that are technically one step up the ladder from what I "should" be hunting. As has been mentioned, Intimidation is a crazy system and even knowing every detail would lead me to shrug and ask something that ought to be a stupid question like "Was Katamba full at the time?"
<<Justice is routinely turned off during invasions.
There are frequent complaints about it not being turned off. I'm not sure if the trend has corrected itself. High-level characters find themselves forced to the fringes of the world in order to hunt. This isn't necessarily something I oppose, but it means I don't see invasions as frequently as I used to.
<<I said "battle cries with groups are fun." Somehow you turned this into "roaring with a group is difficult." I understand the mechanics behind roars, thank you.
Roars with groups are fun? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You said "you can raise everyone's defenses!" Or, you can lower everything else's ability to attack, effectively the same (except the roars actually provide a larger debuff than the battlecries do a buff).
<<I said battle cries can be useful in specific situations. You challenged me to provide you with situations. I did. You rebutted by telling me how to avoid those situations. Completely missed the point there, friend.
This is like selling a carrot peeling appliance. If your audience wants to peel carrots, awesome, you've got a sale. Some may even see a use for it outside of the box (I shudder to think). But most of your audience is probably going to laugh at the idea or wonder why they're watching QVC anyway. They'll head down to Sears and buy a peeler they can use on pretty much everything, which is the metaphorical equivalent of a roar in this scenario.
<<I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise
I meant 4-6 corporeal undead that are technically one step up the ladder from what I "should" be hunting. As has been mentioned, Intimidation is a crazy system and even knowing every detail would lead me to shrug and ask something that ought to be a stupid question like "Was Katamba full at the time?"
<<Justice is routinely turned off during invasions.
There are frequent complaints about it not being turned off. I'm not sure if the trend has corrected itself. High-level characters find themselves forced to the fringes of the world in order to hunt. This isn't necessarily something I oppose, but it means I don't see invasions as frequently as I used to.
<<I said "battle cries with groups are fun." Somehow you turned this into "roaring with a group is difficult." I understand the mechanics behind roars, thank you.
Roars with groups are fun? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You said "you can raise everyone's defenses!" Or, you can lower everything else's ability to attack, effectively the same (except the roars actually provide a larger debuff than the battlecries do a buff).
<<I said battle cries can be useful in specific situations. You challenged me to provide you with situations. I did. You rebutted by telling me how to avoid those situations. Completely missed the point there, friend.
This is like selling a carrot peeling appliance. If your audience wants to peel carrots, awesome, you've got a sale. Some may even see a use for it outside of the box (I shudder to think). But most of your audience is probably going to laugh at the idea or wonder why they're watching QVC anyway. They'll head down to Sears and buy a peeler they can use on pretty much everything, which is the metaphorical equivalent of a roar in this scenario.
<<I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise
>>This is like selling a carrot peeling appliance. If your audience wants to peel carrots, awesome, you've got a sale. Some may even see a use for it outside of the box (I shudder to think). But most of your audience is probably going to laugh at the idea or wonder why they're watching QVC anyway. They'll head down to Sears and buy a peeler they can use on pretty much everything, which is the metaphorical equivalent of a roar in this scenario.
>><<I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise
Your using that phrase wrong, FYI.
That being said, invasions are one of the few(and extremely rare) situations that a battlecry has any merit. Bloodthirst isn't bad and can be used while soloing so its arguable that it has some uses. When my barb was active I used it quite a bit while dancing something that didn't give me a huge offensive bonus.
Pride, Nobility, and Superiority have their uses especially if you group hunt a lot. That being said if you don't group hunt a lot which most people don't, then well their useless.
^--- thats damn with faint praise or close to it anyways.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
>><<I never claimed I was giving them anything but the faintest praise. Like I've said three times now, "better than an empty slot."
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise
Your using that phrase wrong, FYI.
That being said, invasions are one of the few(and extremely rare) situations that a battlecry has any merit. Bloodthirst isn't bad and can be used while soloing so its arguable that it has some uses. When my barb was active I used it quite a bit while dancing something that didn't give me a huge offensive bonus.
Pride, Nobility, and Superiority have their uses especially if you group hunt a lot. That being said if you don't group hunt a lot which most people don't, then well their useless.
^--- thats damn with faint praise or close to it anyways.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
Nope, I was making the correct use of the phrase. To say that "once you've literally done everything else, this is the best thing to do" is another way of saying "functionally useless." For instance, if I proposed to you that we had already hired everyone qualified for our business, so we should just go ahead and fill that last job with the next geek off the street, what would your response be?
Everything that battlecries do can be accomplished with roars or other Barbarian abilities which provide larger debuffs or buffs than battlecries.
More to the point, if you're hunting in a group, you're probably hunting with a member of a guild already capable of providing themselves a more substantial bonus than your battlecry would, so why bother? There are exceptions, of course, but I don't find myself group hunting with Traders.
Everything that battlecries do can be accomplished with roars or other Barbarian abilities which provide larger debuffs or buffs than battlecries.
More to the point, if you're hunting in a group, you're probably hunting with a member of a guild already capable of providing themselves a more substantial bonus than your battlecry would, so why bother? There are exceptions, of course, but I don't find myself group hunting with Traders.
Just to verify... nobody makes use of steadfast? Granted, vitality deaths become rare in current combat once you are past circle 50, but I often found it a good way to quickly get back everyone's health or remove the effects of an errant frostbite.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
<<Just to verify... nobody makes use of steadfast? Granted, vitality deaths become rare in current combat once you are past circle 50, but I often found it a good way to quickly get back everyone's health or remove the effects of an errant frostbite.
Nope. Frostbite is easy to avoid and "useless past 50th circle" boils down to just plain useless. It might be a good thing in 3.0 but right now it's a wasted roar slot.
Nope. Frostbite is easy to avoid and "useless past 50th circle" boils down to just plain useless. It might be a good thing in 3.0 but right now it's a wasted roar slot.
>>Frostbite is easy to avoid...
I know of a few people who would disagree with you :)
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
I know of a few people who would disagree with you :)
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
>>More to the point, if you're hunting in a group, you're probably hunting with a member of a guild already capable of providing themselves a more substantial bonus than your battlecry would, so why bother? There are exceptions, of course, but I don't find myself group hunting with Traders.
Not Including Traders, communes, or predictions.
Moon Mages, Empaths, Paladins, Rangers, and Thieves have no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers.
Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Empaths have no way to improve their parry skill.
Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, and Empath have no way to improve their shield skill.
Moon Mages, Clerics, and Rangers have no way to boost their multi-op
I could keep going with all the battle cries and what they can and can't do. But in all honestly unless you are fighting with a bard or a warrior mage there is a battle cry that would grant an effect that they cannot produce, and for the Bard they would have to give up performing something else to achieve that effect.
Case in point, their are more exceptions than they are guilds that its no use for. Also didn't include necros cause ya know who would hunt with one rather than kill em for fun.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
Not Including Traders, communes, or predictions.
Moon Mages, Empaths, Paladins, Rangers, and Thieves have no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers.
Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Empaths have no way to improve their parry skill.
Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, and Empath have no way to improve their shield skill.
Moon Mages, Clerics, and Rangers have no way to boost their multi-op
I could keep going with all the battle cries and what they can and can't do. But in all honestly unless you are fighting with a bard or a warrior mage there is a battle cry that would grant an effect that they cannot produce, and for the Bard they would have to give up performing something else to achieve that effect.
Case in point, their are more exceptions than they are guilds that its no use for. Also didn't include necros cause ya know who would hunt with one rather than kill em for fun.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
Speaking just for Paladins...
>>no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers.
Trothfang's Rally. I think it was updated to not require a group, too.
>>no way to improve their parry skill.
Sentinel's Resolve. It also might not be as direct, but Holy Warrior could count in this as well. Also, LEADing.
>>no way to improve their shield skill.
Same as above, plus Divine Armor if you also want to get more conceptual with what counts as an improvement.
>>no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers.
Trothfang's Rally. I think it was updated to not require a group, too.
>>no way to improve their parry skill.
Sentinel's Resolve. It also might not be as direct, but Holy Warrior could count in this as well. Also, LEADing.
>>no way to improve their shield skill.
Same as above, plus Divine Armor if you also want to get more conceptual with what counts as an improvement.
>>Thieves have no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers.
Wrong, also, maneuvers are trivial, also very misleading as to the amount of buff this provides.
>>Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Empaths have no way to improve their parry skill.
>>Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, and Empath have no way to improve their shield skill.
Direct skill bonus for some, no, for others, yes they do. Other indirect methods for all, yes they do.
>>Clerics have no way to boost their multi-op
Patently false.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Wrong, also, maneuvers are trivial, also very misleading as to the amount of buff this provides.
>>Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers and Empaths have no way to improve their parry skill.
>>Moon Mages, Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, and Empath have no way to improve their shield skill.
Direct skill bonus for some, no, for others, yes they do. Other indirect methods for all, yes they do.
>>Clerics have no way to boost their multi-op
Patently false.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Eh, Battle Cries suck. Don't see why there's so much babble on this subject.
Get them for fun, that's cool. Get them because you like to group hunt/fight, that's also cool. Perhaps there's that one Barb who can find great use for them. Fact of the matter is, they're not useful enough (for lots of Barbs) to warrant further development. They're extremely situational and sort of go against the 'one man army/I care only for my prowess' philosophy of Barbarians.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Get them for fun, that's cool. Get them because you like to group hunt/fight, that's also cool. Perhaps there's that one Barb who can find great use for them. Fact of the matter is, they're not useful enough (for lots of Barbs) to warrant further development. They're extremely situational and sort of go against the 'one man army/I care only for my prowess' philosophy of Barbarians.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
Just a note, but Moon Mages are able to boost all of their skills with predictions. Granted, perhaps not a lot of them actively do so in combat (although I do).
As for my own opinion, I always think it's nice to have group boosting abilities. I enjoy providing them when I have them, and certainly enjoy receiving them. I hear what everyone's saying about battle cries not being terribly useful, but I imagine they do have at least some (small) value.
-- Player of Eyuve
As for my own opinion, I always think it's nice to have group boosting abilities. I enjoy providing them when I have them, and certainly enjoy receiving them. I hear what everyone's saying about battle cries not being terribly useful, but I imagine they do have at least some (small) value.
-- Player of Eyuve
>>Thieves have khri that'll improve their balance. Just sayin'
To other members of the party, is the discussion.
>>Just a note, but Moon Mages are able to boost all of their skills with predictions. Granted, perhaps not a lot of them actively do so in combat (although I do).
His first sentence in his post was 'not including predictions.'
*******
Malkien
To other members of the party, is the discussion.
>>Just a note, but Moon Mages are able to boost all of their skills with predictions. Granted, perhaps not a lot of them actively do so in combat (although I do).
His first sentence in his post was 'not including predictions.'
*******
Malkien
"More to the point, if you're hunting in a group, you're probably hunting with a member of a guild *already capable of providing themselves a more substantial bonus than your battlecry would*, so why bother? There are exceptions, of course, but I don't find myself group hunting with Traders.
Not Including Traders, communes, or predictions.
Moon Mages, Empaths, Paladins, Rangers, and Thieves have no way to improve their balance, outside of manuevers."
Seemed to me that his statement was to the effect that those guilds couldnt somehow improve their balance myself, but I could just be misunderstanding him I suppose.
Tensing every muscle with the effort of focusing your warrior's spirit into a challenge to those who will not face you in open battle, your roar is an undeniable threat to those who skulk in the shadows.
Danaerys appears less inclined to rely on her stealthy talents for some time.
An ivory alfar guardian appears less inclined to rely on its stealthy talents for some time.
I like Slash a lot but I don't recall using it against an invisible person before. I got no message indicating that I had pulled someone from invisibility, but my target was in the room's LOOK description immediately after, and he complained to me as if I had pulled him out.
I assume I was successfully, just no message?
*******
Malkien
Danaerys appears less inclined to rely on her stealthy talents for some time.
An ivory alfar guardian appears less inclined to rely on its stealthy talents for some time.
I like Slash a lot but I don't recall using it against an invisible person before. I got no message indicating that I had pulled someone from invisibility, but my target was in the room's LOOK description immediately after, and he complained to me as if I had pulled him out.
I assume I was successfully, just no message?
*******
Malkien
Pulling someone out of invisibility with Slash leaves a message stating you did. I'm guessing you didn't pull your friend out of invisibility, so not sure why he complained like that.
I'll show from some of my logs when I get a chance.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
I'll show from some of my logs when I get a chance.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
>>What about the plethora of CJs that boost any skill past what any barbarian ability does?
CJs are a fixed rate bonus, like ~90 ranks. Barbarian dances are percentage-based. At endgame they can literally be 2-3 times more powerful than CJs, on top of often boosting stats and multiple skills.
*******
Malkien
CJs are a fixed rate bonus, like ~90 ranks. Barbarian dances are percentage-based. At endgame they can literally be 2-3 times more powerful than CJs, on top of often boosting stats and multiple skills.
*******
Malkien
