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I'm uncomfortable with having a way to learn debilitation outside of combat when, as far as I can tell, no one else can. I love the fact that I can sit in my forge and learn it in between hammering, but it doesn't seem entirely fair.
I know there was some talk about it before, but I thought I'd bring it up again.
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Caraamon, rest easy, I overheard some mages talking about how they loved learning ALL their magics while sitting. But perhaps you mean, while moving around and smithing. If so, then I think you are right as they have to sit and do nothing else--if I understood what I overheard correctly.
Shinarah
Shinarah
Hurgh, that was actually a bug that I thought was fixed. I'll get around to making roars teach other stuff when time allows.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
>If so, then I think you are right as they have to sit and do nothing else--if I understood what I overheard correctly.
They don't have to sit and do nothing else. It's restrictive, but not quite as harsh as 'literally just wait for timer to expire' restrictive.
Also, it doesn't lock every magic. TM and debilitation are out, and if you want to train sorcery it requires a significant risk of death as well as an extra time period.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
They don't have to sit and do nothing else. It's restrictive, but not quite as harsh as 'literally just wait for timer to expire' restrictive.
Also, it doesn't lock every magic. TM and debilitation are out, and if you want to train sorcery it requires a significant risk of death as well as an extra time period.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
<<Oh thanks for the clarification, but I thought when they research stuff they couldn't do anything but "study"
Certain actions are possible, but the list is quite limited. Things that I have discovered:
Possible:
-braiding
-foraging and collecting
-focusing on magical devices
-power walking (of the moon mage variety at least)
-basic movement
Not possible:
-combat (even just being engaged will break your research)
-climbing
-spellcasting (i.e. prepare, charge, invoke, cast)
I haven't done extensive testing to see if there's anything else. Those are just the things I commonly do while training.
Certain actions are possible, but the list is quite limited. Things that I have discovered:
Possible:
-braiding
-foraging and collecting
-focusing on magical devices
-power walking (of the moon mage variety at least)
-basic movement
Not possible:
-combat (even just being engaged will break your research)
-climbing
-spellcasting (i.e. prepare, charge, invoke, cast)
I haven't done extensive testing to see if there's anything else. Those are just the things I commonly do while training.
You can learn debilitation out of combat, no matter what changes: classes. I am not against the idea of it being learned out of combat through the research system, seeing as it's scholastic like a class.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
Classes aren't a qualifier here. By your definition nothing is a combat r non combat skill since you can learn everything from classes. The general consideration is if the only non combat way to earn a skill reliably and effectively is combat, it's a combat skill. Weapons, armors, TM, debilitation, etc.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
There's no need for arguement: Kodius has already said, and I will reaffirm, that it is not intended for people to learn Debilitation using research options and it will be changed.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
It will be a while till i get to it I'm still back training non combat and crafting but debilitation is shaping up to be one of the more annoying skills to train. I'm guessing I'll just have to sit in combat with something that wont beable to kill me hopefully and just repeatedly roar then wait to drain then start roaring again. Looks like it is one of those skills that has to be learned by itself until it is caught up with the rest or it won't train.
Well, you don't technically have to use Roars as a Barbarian. You could choose to ignore those abilities and pick up additional Berserks or Meditations instead.
All Guilds must now learn Debilitation. It is more annoying, but we hope it is also more balanced because the contest is no longer purely stat based. You may consider picking up the Cyclone Berserk for enhanced roar recovery to help you train. Also, roaring on a group of targets will teach better than one at a time (though it is harder).
Much like anything in DR, it may take a little work to find your ideal learning spot. If you cannot affect your enemies at all, then I'd recommend getting to melee and shoving them on their back first. Or perhaps stunning them first. Both help make the contest easier. And in that case, be sure to roar just AT the one target.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
All Guilds must now learn Debilitation. It is more annoying, but we hope it is also more balanced because the contest is no longer purely stat based. You may consider picking up the Cyclone Berserk for enhanced roar recovery to help you train. Also, roaring on a group of targets will teach better than one at a time (though it is harder).
Much like anything in DR, it may take a little work to find your ideal learning spot. If you cannot affect your enemies at all, then I'd recommend getting to melee and shoving them on their back first. Or perhaps stunning them first. Both help make the contest easier. And in that case, be sure to roar just AT the one target.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Kodius I know you had to make things work with the other guilds so we now have to learn magic. But do you know how hard it is to convince someone to teach this little barb debilitation, augmentation and warding? I shuddered each time I asked for :shudder: magic training.
So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
I can see why the guild leaders just pass us a note saying what we can choose. I wouldn't want to speak the magic words either. : P
Shinarah
So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
I can see why the guild leaders just pass us a note saying what we can choose. I wouldn't want to speak the magic words either. : P
Shinarah
>So I was wondering has anyone made up any kind of backstory as to why barbs now learn magic?
Its Inner Fire, not magic. What Barbarians do, lorewise, is quite different from what Mages do to cast spells. Barbarians dont deal with mana, spell patterns or spell energy. Its named the supernatural skill set for Barbs and Thieves for a reason.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Its Inner Fire, not magic. What Barbarians do, lorewise, is quite different from what Mages do to cast spells. Barbarians dont deal with mana, spell patterns or spell energy. Its named the supernatural skill set for Barbs and Thieves for a reason.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Once upon a time, I could have sworn that MUs would not be able to teach magic skills to nonMUs, and vice versa. Not that this has been implemented, but I thought it was going to be. Maybe that'd help with the RP schtick.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
I agree with Squanto.
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Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Then think of it less as magic training and more as 'using your skills to affect yourself and opponents in specific manner'. Someone made a pretty compelling argument for replacing 'Targeted Magic' with 'Offensive Force Manipulation' or something the like, to accomodate pets and different kind of TM spells.
I wouldn't mind renaming TM if I could think of an alternative that didn't offend me.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Directed Damage would make the most sense, since TM doesn't require a specific range.
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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
>Directed Damage would make the most sense, since TM doesn't require a specific range.
Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging. At least, not since the Empaths got their doohicky.
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Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging. At least, not since the Empaths got their doohicky.
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>>Yeah, but not all TM spells are damaging.
Eh, it depends on how you define damage, really. I'd consider having someone's arm go numb or fall over immobile pretty damaging.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Eh, it depends on how you define damage, really. I'd consider having someone's arm go numb or fall over immobile pretty damaging.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Hmmm.
Channeled force?
Targeted energy?
See, here's the issue I'm coming up with. Since we've made the Magic skillset encompass all supernatural things (a good thing I think) we've removed the primary defining characteristic of these skills, namely that they're magic.
An illustration of this would be thief ambushes. Why is clubbing someone in the back of the head Debilitation but clubbing them in the face Small Blunt? The obvious answer is because it doesn't do damage. The problem comes up when you then ask why clubbing them in the face isn't Targeted Magic, since it does damage.
Basically, we need a better definition of what falls under Targeted Magic or it's successor before we can really start talking about renaming it.
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Channeled force?
Targeted energy?
See, here's the issue I'm coming up with. Since we've made the Magic skillset encompass all supernatural things (a good thing I think) we've removed the primary defining characteristic of these skills, namely that they're magic.
An illustration of this would be thief ambushes. Why is clubbing someone in the back of the head Debilitation but clubbing them in the face Small Blunt? The obvious answer is because it doesn't do damage. The problem comes up when you then ask why clubbing them in the face isn't Targeted Magic, since it does damage.
Basically, we need a better definition of what falls under Targeted Magic or it's successor before we can really start talking about renaming it.
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<<Hmmm.
<<Channeled force?
<<Targeted energy?
It doesn't need the adjective. It's not Magical Warding or Supernatural Utility, for example, despite both of those adjectives being correct. Force would be enough to describe it, and it's placement in the magic/supernatural skillset is enough to keep the definition within that scope.
It also allows for a larger scope than just aimed magical damage, which is something that Empaths and now Barbarians and Thieves have had to work around in different ways. Even standard MU classes have butted heads with the term's definition on occasion with spells like Paeldryth's Wrath effects that don't do damage in a way that would normally be thought of as capable of being physically dodged, such as blanket AoE's or purely mental effects (e.g. Chorus of Madmen). Force would cover all of these quite easily since it just implies that you're exerting a force effect against someone, but doesn't limit it to a certain way conceptually.
<<Channeled force?
<<Targeted energy?
It doesn't need the adjective. It's not Magical Warding or Supernatural Utility, for example, despite both of those adjectives being correct. Force would be enough to describe it, and it's placement in the magic/supernatural skillset is enough to keep the definition within that scope.
It also allows for a larger scope than just aimed magical damage, which is something that Empaths and now Barbarians and Thieves have had to work around in different ways. Even standard MU classes have butted heads with the term's definition on occasion with spells like Paeldryth's Wrath effects that don't do damage in a way that would normally be thought of as capable of being physically dodged, such as blanket AoE's or purely mental effects (e.g. Chorus of Madmen). Force would cover all of these quite easily since it just implies that you're exerting a force effect against someone, but doesn't limit it to a certain way conceptually.
This is the most non barb topic I've ever seen. Leave tm to the finger waddlers and call it finger blasting for all I care.
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.... I like it. Destruction.
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Weapons for Sale:
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http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
But not for empaths try don't destroy.
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